Sam and Shaan explore how tracing the supply chain of everyday objects reveals the insane amount of labor and resources behind modern consumption. They discuss the “buy it for life” movement and how niche lifestyle communities — especially on Reddit — are a goldmine for spotting business opportunities, using anti-plastic brands, refillable product companies, and the r/antiwork vs. r/overemployed dynamic as examples.
Speakers: Sam Parr (host), Shaan Puri (host)
The Supply Chain Behind Every Object [00:00:00]
Shaan: You’re good at doing this — you identify these lifestyle trends. You pick up pretty quickly on when there’s a group of people deciding to live under a different paradigm, a different motto or creed. And that’s always one of the best ways to build a business around that lifestyle, because you can speak to that audience and you can differentiate a product super easily to that crowd.
Sam: Dude, have you ever been inside factories? You probably have, but I think most people haven’t. Have you been inside any kind of — wait, why do I think you’ve been in a factory? You’re going to be like, “I don’t know, my cousin Bubba has a bubble gum factory.”
Shaan: I went fishing recently with my father-in-law and he was like, “Hey, how do I set this hook up? What do I do?” And I was like, “Dude, I don’t know, I’ve never gone fishing.” And he was like, “Why don’t you just assume that I know how to do this?” You just look like a guy — you seem for sure like a guy who knows how to do that stuff.
Sam: I’ve watched documentaries on it.
Shaan: Do you or do you not have a favorite place to fish?
Sam: No, of course I don’t have a fishing hole I go to. But no, I don’t think I’ve been to a factory. Not really. Like, what type of factory?
Shaan: It doesn’t matter. Any factory. Whatever factory you go into, it is mind-blowing. Even going to a warehouse — like, go to an Amazon warehouse, or a food warehouse, how the food gets to restaurants. It’s insane. In the same way that going to a farm is slightly crazy and you’re like, “Whoa, I eat these animals. Oh wow.” It doesn’t seem right. But basically a factory — it is kind of stunning.
Shaan: Like, if you take any object: I am holding this microphone. This is the foam cover of a microphone. There’s some huge factory that is churning them out. If you just go back and trace the process of how this got to my desk.
So I go on Amazon, I search “microphone,” I don’t know — maybe this one. I click it, I buy it. It goes from an Amazon warehouse. Amazon packs it into a carrier, the carrier brings it to my house, puts the package on my doorstep. Okay, great. How did it get to the Amazon warehouse? Well, first it was probably in another warehouse before it even got sent to Amazon. Before that warehouse, it was in a factory being made by human beings.
Shaan: And actually, before it got to that warehouse — it was on a boat in a container, sailing from China. On a boat with human beings just living on the boat as it sails for months. You know, two months to the coast. Then it gets docked and separated out of a container ship, and human beings are there. In the factory there are human beings. I don’t know how many people — I don’t know how much effort went into making this foam cover. But the amount of work that goes into everything that’s sitting in our house just arriving there is insane to me.
Shaan: Where did the material for this foam even come from? If you have cotton, it starts in a field somewhere. It gets plucked, it gets pulled, it gets processed, then it gets shipped, then it gets manufactured, then it gets printed, then it gets manufactured again. That is insane.
Sam: Yeah. To the point where I’m like, we’re kind of ruining the earth. And also people’s lives. I can’t even feel my t-shirt. Well, I cancelled my Amazon Prime membership. I was like, man, I feel guilty. I order something and there’s so much energy behind the scenes to ship this — and I only ordered a dongle for a computer, a small little thing, and it comes with bubble wrap in a huge box. And I’m like, oh, this is horrible. And then I have to pay money to have a truck come pick it up because it’s too much, you know?
Shaan: Yeah.
Sam: Then the truck burns gas and takes it somewhere else and dumps it somewhere, and then it’s someone else’s problem. It’s just kind of like — on one hand, I’m amazed the system even works.
Shaan: The fact that a package gets from a factory in Vietnam to a warehouse, and then you go to the warehouse and there’s an unbelievable number of boxes, and they get picked and packed into a package and then shipped — and if you ever go to the post office, you should just ask them, “Hey, can I see what it’s like behind the door?” They’d be like, “What? Why?” I’ve just never seen it. And they’ll open the door and it is like Santa’s elf factory. The most unbelievable number of packages. And you’re like, where’s the system? Where are the conveyor belts? And they’re like, “No, we just have these trolleys and we kind of keep the ones going over there in this area, and we hope we don’t lose them.” It’s like, wow. This is insane that this system even works.
Sam: It is pretty crazy. It’s like an incredible achievement. You can mail something from California to New York for 45 cents and it gets there in like four days.
Shaan: Pretty reliably. So on one hand it’s amazing, and on the other hand it’s horrifying — the amount of… and I forget the environmental side. I’m not even that environmentally conscious. It’s not something I think about all the time or feel super guilty about. I actually feel more about the human energy and labor and just the amount of effort and resources it took to get this thing to me.
The David Friedberg “Print Your Drinks” Wake-Up Call [00:06:00]
Shaan: It makes me think — we had that guy David Friedberg come on the pod. You weren’t there for that one. But what he’s doing is basically the same thing in the drink industry. Instead of putting 20 liters of water to grow grapes, crush the grapes, turn it into wine, add sugar, add alcohol, pack it up, send it to a bottling factory, send it to a warehouse, put it on a shelf in a store, then drive it home and put it on a shelf in your home — he’s like, why don’t you just manufacture it in your home using this little printer that prints a drink for you?
Shaan: And it’s like, oh yeah. That cuts out like 90 percent of the energy, resources, time, and effort that goes into bringing this drink to you. So I just feel like — more than ever — that was my going-into-space moment. Realizing that for every single product, every shirt, every pair of boxers, every sock I own, how much goddam effort, labor, travel, and resources go into it. And realizing that’s not going to be the way forever. This kind of 3D printing, manufacturing-just-in-time at the end point, cutting out all the factories and warehouses — that was my big wake-up call.
Sam: I want to ask you about what else you can do that for. But before that — have you ever gotten into the buy-it-for-life movement?
Shaan: I think you’ve told me about that.
Sam: No, but I think I understand it from context. What is it?
Shaan: It’s like an eco-friendly way of buying?
Sam: Well, it doesn’t have to be rooted in eco-friendly. It’s not for me, but it’s a perk. There’s a subreddit I subscribe to called “Buy It for Life,” and the idea is just: how do you consume less stuff? How do you buy the best version of something that hopefully lasts forever?
The Buy-It-For-Life Movement [00:08:00]
Sam: An example: do you remember as a kid, did your mom ever have a KitchenAid mixer?
Shaan: Yes.
Sam: KitchenAid — the mixer with the bowl underneath and the arm that spins. Those are like six hundred dollars. They’re really expensive. But they’re famous for lasting a lifetime. You can use an antique one and it works just as good. Another example: if you’re going to buy a coat, you can buy a really fancy leather coat and you’re willing to spend two thousand dollars as opposed to a three-hundred-dollar one, because it could last forever — as long as you fit in it. Or Patagonia — they’ll fix your stuff forever. There are a bunch of furniture brands, a bunch of shoe brands where instead of throwing them away when they wear down, you just get them fixed.
Sam: So the idea is how do you buy one thing and have it last forever? I feel like you do stuff like this, Ben. Do you have objects that you buy that are meant to last?
Shaan: The funny thing is my dad does this, but not out of environmental justice ideas — just because he’s kind of crazy that way. Like, he drove the same car for 22 years, couldn’t bring himself to buy a new one. Always shines his shoes because he’s owned the same pair for 40 years. So that got ingrained in me as a good way to live. And I do do this a little bit. It’s awesome, it’s fun. And also like some of your stuff — as you wear it, it patinas. It actually looks cooler.
Identifying Lifestyle Trends as a Business Framework [00:10:30]
Shaan: Right now you’re good at doing this, which is you identify these lifestyle trends. Do you know there are people who are just not eating food anymore — they’re just drinking Soylent? Or people who microdose LSD every day? These are like famous examples now, but I feel like you’ve told me about 30 of these in the time we’ve been friends. Like, “Dude, have you seen this subreddit called fat FIRE?” You always pick up pretty quickly on some group of people living under a different sort of paradigm, a different motto or creed. And I think you do it just because it’s interesting — but that’s also one of the best ways to build a business around that lifestyle.
Sam: I seek those things out. There’s a bunch of things I don’t agree with or don’t want to live my life that way, but I love just seeing it. I love how — basically I love freaks. I like weirdos. I consider myself a weirdo, and I love a good freak show.
Sam: Like, I remember the first time — three years ago, I went to my friend’s house and he didn’t have a microwave. I was like, “What? No microwave?” He was like, “It’s bad for this reason and that reason.” And I was like, “You’re a freak. We all have microwaves.” And then you start thinking about it, and I’m like, okay, maybe there’s a point there. Or like a lot of my friends now refuse to use plastic Tupperware or plastic anything that you eat with. And I’m like, well, why? I just put my stuff in the microwave, who cares? But there are all these little things like that that I love learning about.
Shaan: Yeah, I remember when Justin Mares came on, you were like, “Let me guess — you don’t have a microwave in your house.” And he was like, “Yep.” And I was like, that was a spot-on question to ask somebody, and I don’t think you knew the answer ahead of time.
Anti-Plastic as a Business Blueprint [00:13:00]
Shaan: And that got me thinking about this exact lifestyle you’re talking about. In fact, Moiz — Moiz started Native Deodorant, which was built around one of these trends. People wanted an all-natural, paraben-free, aluminum-free deodorant. He saw it on Etsy — it was a really high-selling item, but it was in the Etsy handmade artisan-goods bubble. His bet was that once you speak to that value system of “not having X,” people might be willing to pay more and switch deodorant brands if you built a brand around it.
Shaan: He recently tweeted something like, “Billion dollar idea: water that has never touched plastic.” So it’s a water brand that has only ever been in glass containers — from whatever mountain it came from, it hasn’t touched plastic until it reaches your lips. And I thought that was funny, but like, this anti-plastic thing is real. A lot of people are anti-plastic.
Sam: Yeah. So that means for every product where plastic is core, there’s going to be an alt product where plastic is not used. Whether it’s Tupperware, or — like, I drink water out of one of those big five-gallon jugs delivered to the house, in a dispenser, and that’s a plastic container it’s sitting in the whole time until I drink it. So it’s just a giant water bottle. There are these trends where you can look at: okay, if there’s an anti-plastic trend, where is there plastic and can I create an alternative? If there’s a plant-based vegan trend, how do I make alt milks, alt meat, alt whatever? That becomes like a blueprint to building a great business.
Refillable Products and the Packaging Problem [00:15:30]
Sam: So there are a few companies out right now — I’m going to try to look them up — but basically there’s this trend around products you use daily that you run out of. Like toothpaste, laundry detergent, Advil. Things where the bottle is just a way to get it to you, but it’s kind of crappy that you have to throw it away. So they’re making all these products where they send you one package, and then whenever you need it, they just send you a refill — something you pour into the original container.
Shaan: Do you know what they’re called? I’ve seen this for toothpaste.
Sam: I think it’s a great idea. I love it.
Shaan: There’s this idea — at first I thought it was small, but I think Moiz was the one who told me it’s like killing it. You don’t know what I’m talking about, do you?
Sam: I forget the name. I’ll have to look it up. But they’re crushing it. There’s one called Blueland — doesn’t Blueland do this?
Shaan: Yeah, Blueland. Yeah.
Sam: And it’s like chemical-free containers. They send you one container, and then you order a refill — I don’t know exactly how they send it, but you just pour it into the thing.
Shaan: They send you a plastic pouch that you throw away.
Sam: Yeah, I think it’s like less bad.
r/antiwork and the Labor Movement [00:17:30]
Shaan: By the way, speaking of niche communities — I’ve got two for you. We talked about r/antiwork. Did we talk about that on the podcast?
Sam: I don’t think we talked about it, but it pisses me off. So you explain that one, and then I have another one that’s the counter to it. First, explain antiwork.
Shaan: I don’t entirely know how to explain it. Here’s the background from what I remember: it was started eight years ago, but it really got popular in the last three years since the pandemic. It was made up of a lot of people who were waiters and waitresses who were pissed off at how they were being treated. It started out as like a labor movement thing — we need higher wages, we need this. Now it has 8 or 10 million subscribers on the subreddit, and it’s people complaining about things like, “My manager fired me because I told them I was busy when they needed me to come in.” They basically dump on anything that’s demanding of workers.
Shaan: So here’s their stated thing — Ben, tell me if I’m being too harsh. But here’s what it says: it’s a subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, and want to get the most out of a work-free life. The subreddit cracked over 1.4 million members by the end of 2019, and now it’s at eight million.
Sam: Oh my god.
Shaan: And it went viral after a warehouse worker posted a screenshot of a text they sent their boss, and that basically inspired other workers to do the same. It was part of the great resignation that people were talking about. There was this funny clip where they took a mod from r/antiwork and put them on Fox News — have you seen it?
Sam: Yeah.
Shaan: And this person got destroyed. It was embarrassing. Like, “antiwork person gets destroyed by Fox anchors” — which I didn’t like, I hate when they do that. This person clearly is not that articulate, and it’s very easy to set someone up to look silly in those cases.
Sam: The subreddit also didn’t like it, because they were like, “Dude, horrible representation of us on TV. Did not articulate our points. Why did you go on there?” Like, this movement is not about you getting personal fame.
Shaan: They had some rules around that — like, we’re not going to do media appearances unless we agree on the message. So this person went rogue and basically embarrassed themselves. They were like, “Yeah, I just don’t want to work.” And the anchor is like, “Okay, so you don’t want to work at all?” Like, “Well, I want to be able to do what I want to do.” “So what do you want to do?” “I want to teach people. I want to be a teacher.” And the anchor is basically like, “You want to be a teacher? Should we let you teach?” That was kind of the end point they were driving at.
r/overemployed: The Counter-Movement [00:22:00]
Sam: So there’s r/antiwork which went viral. Have you seen r/overemployed?
Shaan: No. What’s that?
Sam: It’s the exact opposite. It’s people using the pandemic remote-work lifestyle to hold multiple jobs at once. Their lingo is like, “Oh yeah, my J1 has great benefits, so I’m picking up my J2 and I’m going to do 10 hours a week on this and invest the extra income.” It’s people scheming together about how to work multiple jobs simultaneously — and as remote workers, oftentimes without their employers knowing.
Sam: So they’re being simultaneously employed without being super overt about it. That’s the message, I think — though I could be wrong. And it’s people who are trying to get to financial freedom faster by saying, “I have the capacity to do multiple jobs. Instead of spending 40 hours a week on one job, I can actually do a good job in 20 hours a week on two jobs and get paid twice as much.”
Shaan: That’s the optimistic way to look at it.
Sam: The probably realistic way — I’m looking at a top post and it says, “My J3 job forgot about me today.” And they say, “I started my J3 yesterday. I was in orientation on Zoom and no one showed up. So now I’m just sitting here on the payroll.”
Shaan: Yeah.
Sam: There are other people like, “Yeah, let’s beat the system.” So there’s basically a counter-movement. That kind of always happens — there’s the movement, and then the counter-movement comes shortly after. It polarizes. And then there’s the mainstream that just does things the way they’ve always been done and doesn’t pay too much attention to any of it. That’s kind of common for a lot of these movements.
Shaan: Yeah. Subreddits are a great place to look for that stuff.