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Kind: captions Language: en the point of this conversation is this is a gold rush and who knows how often these come around how much revenue will your brands do using this Tik Tok model this year 100 plus so five Brands you’re going to do over 100 million this year and this is the Playbook you’re running across all of them yeah so what’s an example of one of these videos I think this video had made this kid close to $50,000 the single video what you said in this video will make people millions of dollars if all they did was just try to act on it millions are being printed on Tik Tok shop like what are the m mistakes people make my advice is be an observer not a consumer that’s the best thing you can do let’s brainstorm live $100 million Tik Tok I’m going to show you something that the world is never going to see but I’m going to show how serious I take [Music] this all right ready has has anyone ever wore a cut off like this before the first one to bring the gun show to MFM that’s so I was just thinking like watched a lot of these and I’ve seen a lot of guests and I was like like I’m Different in a lot of ways so I might as well visually capture that you know make a statement you were early to the Amazon Trend and you took $5,000 you turned it into a $30 million company you sold and what you told me was basically that this now is the first and biggest thing you’ve seen since that Amazon opportunity is that right it is it is and I’ve looked for these I didn’t appreciate it in the Amazon era but I look for these moments in time where you don’t need a ton of startup Capital you don’t need to raise money and you can basically just find something that works a system a platform latch on to that and create something of substantial Enterprise Value and Tik Tok represents that so what I want to do is I want to go through the big idea so why why people should be caring about Tik Tok right now what you see as the like the big opportunity and then specifically what are some examples of people that are crushing it how are they crushing what’s the Playbook and then where are the opportunities that you see that are still open that anyone could go do so that’s my game plan absolutely so top of the funnel here fundamentally people don’t appreciate what’s actually happening with Tik Tok like like shop is a component of that that’s the center of their model but you think about even restaurants you think about Google you think about Facebook meta ads like all of the there’s a paradigm shift so a good example my now ex-wife and I went to uh Tokyo like a year and a half ago and if we went 5 years ago she would have gone to Google to search for restaurants she would have yelped now she goes on Tik Tok and wants to visually see what is going on right the shopping is turning more live all of these things are fundamentally changing even the creators of this last generation the influencers they’re coming up off short form content we all know how important you know clipping and and all that stuff is by the way I I read that 30% of J Z’s primary news source is Tik Tok yep uh and so and then same thing uh SE primary search engine so in my company we did a little p there we were trying to work on our Google like search result yep and I was asking our employees I was like so when you Google for this what do you do they go I don’t really Google for that I just go to Tik Tok and type in the name and then I whatever comes up on Tik Tok is what I use yep that blew my mind because I wasn’t using Tik Tok as a search engine yep and that that’s the paradigm shift and that’s that’s the opportunity because it’s so early and it’s I don’t like the word like gam fiable but when you just think through these new models and like how information is being shared that’s where the brands of the future are being created that’s where the artists of the future being created that’s where like fashion design it’s all happening through this new means of distribution all right so imagine Landing a call with Richard Branson from a CT email one founder one of our listeners they did that and the HubSpot for startups team just launched a Playbook sharing exactly how it was done and not only that but also a killer report on fundraising for Founders so you can steal Ava’s cold email Playbook you can get the insight into what investors want and the top Tech stack across Founders and so much more I can’t stress this enough how crucial this is if you’re looking to get into networking and to raise money right now get the link in the description below now back to the show by the way this happens in everything so I don’t know if you ever heard the story of why Obama was so successful when he did his first presidential run do you know this story just tapping into the social media and all that it was kind of social media but he got this big Grassroots movement going from two reasons one he was one of the first presidents to build a huge email list at the time president the people who were running they were doing you know fundraisers they were doing TV they were doing you know traditional interviews but they weren’t building an email list and he built a giant email machine before anybody else and then he started using social media on top and he basically hired people Trump did the same thing when Trump won in 2016 even this year when he when he won he raised way less money than his opponent right the first time way less than Hillary this time way less than k/ Biden and in both cases it was because he was using a different marketing strategy his his was all Facebook and and online and the others were doing all like traditional TV buys commercials stuff like that and so when you see this like you said Paradigm Shift it’s like the new marketing opportunity if you can pounce on that that’s where you can get rich can you quickly just say like what you saw in Amazon and when that was back in 20 what was it 14 or so yeah yeah and I’ll go from that to now like the numbers we’re seeing the difference in terms of like Raz right um and it’s challenging for people because it’s happening so fast like I think a lot of people still think that you know digital marketing is the new paradigm and like actually it’s like all the way over here now and so Amazon’s a great example I remember seeing Brands like Billboards were a huge strategy back then I’m like I started by working with Brands that’s how I got my start as like a consultant helping them sell on Amazon and I’m going guys you’re spending $50,000 on a billboard campaign and when you give me five grand to spend on Amazon you you’re having trouble tracking that but right here we’re making $5 for every dollar spent and this is me as a 22-year-old kid they’re like no this is the way it is or like you know we’re going to double bodybuilding.com needs these or or or you know GNC needs these and by the time I finally it probably took me like a year I’m going these guys are slow right at first you think you’re dumb eventally you realize they’re dumb you’re like yo I keep putting a dollar into this magic money machine and $5 are coming out which is a 5x is cool Raz for people don’t know Raz is return on ad spend so it’s for every dollar I spend on marketing how many dollars do I get back out in Revenue yep TV billboards you don’t really know right the famous advertising saying is half of our advertising doesn’t work problem is we just don’t know which half like and actually for a while CMOS didn’t mind that because if you can’t track it you can’t be held accountable but then Facebook and all these guys came and all of a sudden every dollar you put in you get a like verified amount of how much revenue you’re getting out of it now you’re held accountable but that also presents an opportunity yep just for a kid like you you’re like all right if if this works it’s inarguable this is working and I’m getting 5x for return on my money and so now what we’re seeing what happens over time is that compresses right enough guys like me do podcasts like this Facebook ads are great godamn podcasting it shrinks the margin and um so like you look at like an Amazon now which has been my you know I’ve been doing ads on there for 10 years now and like a like a one to one and a half Raz is like good in a hot category which is not profitable but you’re you know that’s where you’re like okay repeat customers building the brand and so you have that modeled as like that was the last couple years and then Tik Tok comes along and that organic algorithm is so damn good and then if you this is where now it almost goes back to the billboard era of like actually tracking becomes a little more difficult but we’re seeing just money spent on this this system which we can get into a little bit later but this system is like 7 8X minimum return versus a 1x Raz and upwards of like when I first did this with you know Jimmy 18 months ago it was like 30X you know like and then the question was how can we spend more I mean it’s like Peds for marketing right it’s like if you’re going to get if I can use this channel that not everybody understands this Playbook that not everybody understands and get 7x or I go to Facebook and Amazon I get 1X 1.5x I mean that’s like cheat codes in the game of business can you give people a sense how much revenue will your brands do using this Tik Tok model this year so directly attributable to like Tik Tok shop we we modeled probably like 40ish million and overall the halo effect of all that plus so your Brands which is what you three four roughly brands or how many how many are you running right now F five that I either own you know majority of or or a meaningful yeah so five Brands you’re across all of them yep Y and and and by the way how old are these Brands one or two years old it’s actually it’s unreal and it it I don’t want to say things stress or scare me at this point but it’s one of those things where it’s like all right we got to see this through because the point of this conversation is this is a gold rush and who knows how often these come around right and so I feel like I’m getting to go back to my 22-year-old self and saying hey like this is going to be really big you know Focus right now do the right things execute you know and and and that’s where we’re at is that a conversation you had with yourself back when you were 22 and and the Amazon Gold Rush was happening I took it really seriously but you don’t know what you don’t know right and just I didn’t appreciate like who knew private Equity was going to come in and value all these Brands and who knew that Amazon was going to grow to that extent it was still kind of a discount site when I was first on there that’s why Brands didn’t want to do it you were in the supplements category and you said the way the supplement game worked was you had GNC or these like retail stores if you wanted to be if you wanted to win in supplements you had to win in retail and then you’re like Amazon came around and changed the game because now you have this online retailer and suddenly new supplement Rands could win there where you couldn’t get on the Shelf at GNC exactly and you were saying now the same thing’s happening to Amazon basically there’s a new one coming in it’s sweeping the rug and creating the opportunity maybe you weren’t going to win on Amazon but now you can win in this new way is that right did I that’s exactly right it’s these continual Paradigm shifts like Amazon it was you know there’s this brand BPI Sports who was number one in GNC and then I just remember seeing that flip where Amazon all of a sudden was like 50% of their revenue and then they didn’t focus on Amazon and then there were Brands passing them up right and so the brands of the future were born on that digital platform and and Amazon was you know their Facebook ads there other digital means but we’ll call it the e-commerce era and now it’s happening again with like the short form Discovery era so it’s much less about what does your website look like or this and that it’s like how are you optimizing for this means of information dissemination and you know I think when most people say gold rush if you call 10 things a gold rush then what’s really a gold rush but I feel like you genuinely believe you’re like yo this I’m not [ ] around I’m serious right now there is a window where something can happen could you like make your pitch not to me but to like the next Rob who’s who is 23 24 25 30 years old it doesn’t matter what age but like to be like yo take this serious you can even just direct a camera like what’s your message to that person about this opportunity honest I’m going to hijack I’m going to hijack your your friend here how many how many businesses a day do you think Ben looks at just in general 10 to 15 a day a day yeah a day so he’s constantly looking at opportunities and he sent me a text and he goes oh this Tik Tok thing really does seem to be the best opportunity to go from like no net worth to like 1 to 5 million with no skills no background no Tech whatever and when he sent me that because obviously I accept my opinion is going to be biased I do this every day but when Ben sent me that I was like oh okay yeah no this is for real and then you look at our own you know like we’re doing this our company growth even though we have skills we’ve been doing this a while but to go from zero to you know 100 plus million run rate is actually insane with no you know not raising it’s we’re profitable like super profitable yeah you’ve boot trrap these right like you know I’m a small investor but you didn’t take our money for the money you just no we love you you just you want us to be on board uh all right so let’s let’s stop uh teasing what are the brands like tell me some stories like I I don’t live in this world you do tell me some stories of some brands that are crushing it what are some examples that make this real one that I think we can start with is this company Roose research and this guy had a little Amazon experience he’s 27 and this is like a a nine figure play and and I I I just couldn’t be more excited for him and so I’m like you know hyping it up here but he reaches out to me two and a half years ago before Tik tok’s even taken off and he’s like hey I’m thinking about starting the supplement brand on Amazon he picked the right category he’s like longevity is getting bigger he gets on Amazon he’s doing all right and then Tik Tok comes around and he he pours all in on it and two years later I believe this month you know he’ll do he’ll do north of like $15 million between all online this month this month so what is the product what what do they do something like research NAD Roost research and it’s that like you know it’s that every couple years a new supplement category comes along where like this might have long-term staying power collagen was the last huge one you know $4 billion exit vital proteins to uh Nestle and he’s betting on that and then he went all in all bootstrapped no raised money not even like he hasn’t revamped the brand yet if you go look at it you’re like no this looks a little like you know it doesn’t look like a multi hundred million doll thing but that’s what he’s building so I’d say that one so he spotted the health Trend early early enough not like the first guy but early enough built a good product in that space you said he went all in on Tik to you know figured out Tik Tok What did he actually do to make it work on Tik Tok he tapped into this Creator model so should we go in detail on what’s the Playbook so if I for all these ideas they have a Playbook what’s the Tik Tok Playbook so it’s important to preface it with this everyone is used to YouTube Instagram like where your followers matter right like you have an Instagram following of a million people that’s valuable Tik Tok shattered that and you have to look at everything through the lens of views you start a brand new Tik Tok account I do we walk out of here we start a new Tik Tok account together we start a video of dancing in the street that could get 10 million views right and so that’s the center of this whole model swings at bat screw your your brand page like Roose doesn’t have a brand page right they might run ads but the key part of the model is how many people can we get creating product specific content for the brand like an army instead of one influencer becoming Kim Kardashian or the rock or whatever instead of I will become famous to get a lot of followers and then product saying is the new model is an army of people need to create content and then it’s just the content wins one of those pieces of content needs to pop in order for this to work yep is that it yeah exactly and the first big use case of this before product was Andrew Tate like that’s how he can we say that can we say that name that’s how he he broke the internet not even like intentionally but he had Affiliates making Tate content right so he’s not T’s not on Tik Tok but he has 500 hungry little minions who love him and he was paying them or they were just inspired what was going on yeah there was an affiliate commission back to make more videos for him so like like you could get people paying $50 a month by making this content he created basically like a Content MLM almost pretty much yeah no exactly so he and what what was his I mean that’s kind of Genius of him to do that because no other you know we were content creators podcasters whatever but if we created content we just put it on our Channel yep and it was just us or like we would hire people to create clips for us what but on our one channel Y what he did was different he’s like yo here’s a bunch of raw material it run it you figure out how to go viral and if you do I’ll pay you what per view or what was he what was he doing per sign up they got back to the community that would teach you how to do that so I mean and the end result was most Googled man on the on the planet right and um and so now you see that everywhere streamers like Aiden Ross and those guys they they spend six figures a month paying on a CPM metric paying people to chop up their streams and put it out on New Tik Tok like I do that right with my my stuff like someone from my team will chop this up and you might see it right swings it back and so now take that same idea sorry when you say my team do you literally mean like my employees or you’re like I just like both we’re trying to hit it from every way and brands are too like this is the fundamental thing how can you get as much good quality swings at bat as humanly possible and sometimes it’s freelance people and then sometimes it’s internally it’s a little harder on shop so beautiful because the model itself incentivizes it without us having to change hands you know like internally I’m trying to figure out metrics like you know see like all that right whereas if you have talented creators they just go and that that was Tates too it worked it fed itself the the economics fed itself so shop feeds itself so just to explain instead of just sending it to famous people influencers or random people what happened was certain people realize oh [ ] I can make money doing this so instead of just doing it once what if I made five videos a day what if I started picking brands that I thought would perform well and they started making $500 a month and $5,000 a month you have creators that make how how much does like the most successful creators make per month just creators they don’t own the brand they don’t buy inventory they don’t have to run the operations they’re just making Tik toks what do you think what do you think I I’ve heard that like there’s like 20year olds that are able to make 100 Grand a month yeah like like yeah like like a lot and and way more than you’d think I was at an event for one of our you know the group that I own a little piece of and we’ve had 27 people make over $100,000 in a month as freelance creators and the important part is these are not influencers like jacine I have a YouTube video with she was working as a server eight months ago making 20 bucks an hour and she made like 180 Grand last month and what they do they go in the lab and they’re basically like all right I have to figure out what content can I create that will make this product you know interesting appealing to other people and then they get like they’re making making like 30 40 50 videos a month most of them don’t do well but a few of them start do well and they’re studying and learning oh if I do this hook that grabs people but it’s not converting okay what can make it convert better and they’re just specializing in the craft of short form content no no not too dissimilar than David Ogie in the past figuring out how to do print ads that are going to convert right all the great marketers in the past it’s just instead of going to an ad agency you’re going to these Creator armies where young people are specializing in how to create short form content response marketing this means that’s exactly what it is and and there’s varying degrees of it there’s like the innovators who can sit down the algorithm is the algorithm you have to capture attention you have to keep them watching and then you know something to to convert and then there’s the second wave of that whereas you know one of the innovators hits what’s works and then there’s literally 500 kids that are going to copy that same idea right only make 20% of it but then what does that do for the brand right then all of a sudden you have all these videos going nuclear I bet you R show me a video so what’s an example of one of these videos that this is a great one I think this video last I checked I think this video had made this kid close to $50,000 the Creator the single video and he he paired you know modern thing Trump like getting elected with conspiracy and all this whatever just got into office one day ago and is already going after one of the most predatory Industries in the world watch this we have a public health system that does so the hook was first he’s writing the news Trend Trump uh instead of saying hey I have a product I’d like to tell you about no starts by talking about Trump and then he has this uh curiosity would you call it that that information Gap right where all of a sudden he went after one of the biggest industries in the world what did what did he do predatory which one what’s that industry and what did he do and then you hear it in the background it’s that mysterious it’s a trending sound change starting today but you know what’s crazy his buddy donno white was coming after by the way even how raw this is he’s taking a video of like an Android phone yeah so if does you don’t think this is an advertisement no exactly and and everything nowadays is Shifting to that just raw organic like you don’t want to feel like an influencer is selling you and that’s not what he is you know like this is like this is a random dude making telling you a story yeah okay what’s he put theats back I give ahead a little bit here the got Dana White more social proof it’s interesting because around the same time they were trying to silence this doctor for giving us the scientist now yeah uh B it’s another famous scientist so they’re building he’s building this case for for something still hasn’t told you about the product right problem that lives up in through here and oil of oregano is the absolute best remedy for that it’s antimicrobial antibacterial anti- fungal anti- candida antiviral anti- parasites and antimold now I did some research and not only is oiv so really you get the idea right and then he still hasn’t sold you he building this idea of oil oregano and then at the end I believe he but I’ve been taking two of these pearls anytime I feel like I’m coming down with something and it knocks that [ ] right out the only bad thing about this product is how fast they sell out especially around this season so if you’re sick of being sick and you want to try these out for yourself and you see that orange cart right there that means they are still in stock and the Flash sale is still Al unfor Tik Tok Shop video that’s a masterful Tik Tok Shop video and like if you know marketing you see it you go yeah but you forget like the average person sees that and they’re like you know they’re going to the coffee table at work the next day and talking about man you know like mold and fungus is everywhere but I hear you take this oil of Oregan dude I got cousins that will send me this and they’ll be like yeah you got to start taking this yeah the government’s out to get you yeah whatever they have these like that conspiracy combined with you know in ancient times this used to be the way we do things and then you know his last like scarcity called to action where he’s like the only downside is they sell out so fast so if you see the button is orange that means I still have it just get it while I’m still there you better go and it’s on say it’s on flash sale right now you know it’s like did you see um you know the the brand you’re invested in did you have anyone send you content from that at any point like just not only did I have people send me content from that brand which we were the the founder of it doesn’t want us talking about it all right but then also he sent me a video of other people creating videos being like I’m tired of hearing about this which is like the ultimate sign of respect it means it dominated Tik Tok so much which is like there the video was like if I see one more video telling me about this I’m not going to buy your thing but like even that video had 7 million views of the person complaining about seeing this so much which means mission accomplished we got 600 million views in a month like that is an insane insane number and that was before shop how much did you spend that month to get 600 million views it was a little over 100 Grand that that was before shop too so shop now is changing the unit economics I’d say like not in the favor of the brand at the end of the day it adds a level of scale but now with commissions and stuff that was when we were like sending it to Amazon and just we’re not even tracking it we’re just like if we can get 600 million views we’re going to be all right you know for for 100 grand well it creates this amazing fly wheel right because you hear about a brand a bunch on Tik Tok you go then Google it and click the link or you go to Amazon and you search on Amazon it tells Google it tells Amazon people are searching for this brand name it UPS your rank there so now you get organic ranking off of this social in addition to the direct conversions on social yep no exactly where do you go to find these brands that are crushing it this tool and this is the other crazy thing C data is directly plugged in to Tik tok’s API Hall data k a l o data da a t like so they if you go to the homepage here you’re seeing top products top videos so you can go look at like you could study you can study that’s that’s that kid’s video I know him he’s in our in our group but that was like the one of the top videos from last week it made him if you go right now to like the top products what do you see and they just it’s like rankings weekly or how do they do this yeah so like beauty Beauty and personal care you can filter however you want so this is last are you are you in this list this is last 30 days we are in this list we’re top five and we’re not 3 four five and then I think if you expand it like we have a couple products in the in the top 10 can you talk about what your products are which products can you talk about yeah yeah I mean like a really good example has been are we gatekeeping here or are you no no I don’t I mean I I Yap about stuff on Instagram all the time so uh evil Goods has been a really good case study of of beef Tallow in the you know skinc care section how’ you decide to do beef Tallow of all that was that was an investment and so one of our students or whatever like saw that category as similar to longevity like okay holistic Wellness is obviously becoming huge people don’t like toxic skincare this seems to have some good supporting like it has this like Grassroots Twitter movement let’s bet on that and so you know that’s what we did and and pretty much whenever you see the ability to Market to fear like that big Pharma or whatever it might be or or insecurities from IND Plastics whatever that that that will do well on this platform like just just period because people feel like they’re learning something and so it checked all those boxes he came out with a crazy aggressive name evil Goods is like um you know we’ll see cuz that could disrupt the ability to like go to retail and stuff like that but at the same time liquid death yeah yeah so so could be liquid death exactly exactly so hope hopefully plant a flag on that but this thing has gone just nuclear what’s what’s your uh cologne brand uh top shelf and so this ties back to my thesis that massive Industries are overturned like in these eras I want top shelf it’s like a passion project of mine but I want to build a Creed for jenzy you know Creed like fragrance and um it it presents the opportunity to do that so the way that cologne like I don’t know much about Cologne uh but it seems like it’s kind of luxury sold through retail traditionally super high margin like crazy margins basically you know water and a little bit of essential oil or whatever and so how do you sell that how do you make a popular how did how did you make a popular colone brand and can you say like Revenue wise what that’s going to do this year we’ve been doing we’ve been doing close to a million bucks a month so it’s been it’s been but it’s it’s a unique challenge for me that I like this ties back to I mean seriously everyone in this world if you’re venturing into it pick something you like and see some area of disruption and make stuff for yourself like that that’s really what I see and as I’ve gravitated more towards you know we talked about offline but I like high fashion I like design and so this seems like the perfect segue for me to go from consumable to something that can play in that world right fashion culture yeah exactly exactly and so like like cre is relevant at like these big um fragrance houses are relevant in in Paris and stuff like that and so for me it’s been a I know it’s luxury because I’ve have never heard of what you’re saying must must be good have you seen Creed or no the you probably see like Creed aventus it’s like a you know popular fragrance that sells for $250 a bottle and so when I’m seeing that I’m going I can there’s a lot of let’s walk through it so you’re like all right I want to go into cologne mhm you get it made how where’d you go to make it so I I had to hire a he’s like he calls himself a professional nose you know and has been like designing fragrances for God knows how long and so I’m learning just Google this guy or how’d you find him um relationship through our other business partner he had done skincare before and this guy was like a known guy in the industry charges an arm in a leg made one good product don’t think I like it right so I’m like how can we build this out internally and and I’ve learned more about the industry like what you know what smells actually fascinating like like how it makes people feel what’s fascinating about it just all the different you know mechanisms and mixes and like like you go to abomi you know exactly what it smells like it’s like it can be a signature of branding it can be a signature of a of a person you know like it’s probably like the least used sense in marketing so th% but do you think about like a a fresh pair of Nikes like that that’s intentional new car smell new car smell and and and uh so it’s just been a fun Avenue to learn more and I’m far from a expert in it just to be honest like we have the one product we’re moving well with and then we’re trying to build out wait so tell me so you say you went to the nose nose makes something for you that’s what you use or you say you didn’t like it so he he actually made us eight different samples we we chose the one he wanted to use we blow it up we did 700 Grand our first month it just gets murdered with bad reviews people hate it like hate it and so now all of a sudden I got all you liked it or no no okay you yourself were like one star yeah and and I’m kind of I didn’t hate it I didn’t hate it but I wasn’t like oh I would I would wear this and um and and at the time with genius I was really big on making products for yourself and like being all in on that and then we have all these things going nuclear and so I’m like money right where’s the money $90 I’m trying to make something for myself but this time it’s money instead of a product and uh and honestly that blew up in my face a little bit and so we revamped on the the second one and had a you know it’s it’s a winner and like it was very methodical and so that’s the one doing like a million bucks a month um but before he made a million a month it must have made a dollar so how did it what did you do initially to get that to work so you go to the creators that was the nice part the the first fragrance we got the Playbook like the angles that worked and so good marketing bad product yeah and so what was the angles that work give us an example for that that’s another one it’s it’s huge in this this gen Z era and I I don’t like saying gen Z actually it’s Tik Tok person and and male there’s a billion users on there right so it it’s it’s a disservice to the app to say it’s just gen Z although that’s where a lot of these ideas percolate from but like the self-improvement and dating and all these little boxes that this generation’s trying to check are hyper relevant to smell like like that’s a thing in their world like how do you smell around the girl you’re trying to to talk to very easy fear yeah what’s the name of your thing it’s like her loss her loss uhhuh where did that come from that’s genius it’s actually I went through this whole like Drake era on my personal brand and he has an album called her loss it’s like don’t reinvent the wheel they succeeded what would be like a killer hook to sell that cologne on they do actual skits so actually actually one that that worked really well was we had female creators do it and they started calling it like [ ] magnet juice if you got to believe that my boyfriend came home and this or whatever you know and um really high converting stuff there’s a story so I just did a podcast with this guy Craig Clemens do you know Craig so he monster he told the story of like OG marketing that’s super relevant for this so I’m going to retell it his episode’s going to come out too but he talks about like one of the greatest headlines he’s ever read in marketing he goes he goes got four for you and the first one he told was he talked about this headline he goes here’s the story this guy’s a famous marketer he’s one of the best he’s known as one of the best marketers on Earth and this Hollywood actor hits him up and he says my wife wants to launch her own perfume brand will you come and help us with the marketing of it so he goes he meets the wife wife says I want to do this he goes say no more I’ll make this happen and he goes and he starts studying fragrances and he goes to a mall and you know the guys at the mall who are like you know they had like a make your own fragrance thing like you know you have all these oils you can mix your own and he just asked the guy he goes what’s the number one fragrance that women love and he goes oh sir easy China musk and he goes China musk and he goes yes China musk smells that smells good so he takes it and this is like you know he’s only a couple weeks in but he doesn’t go back to the Hollywood wife uh he sits on it he’s like I need to make her wait for her to Value this I need to make it feel more important so after 3 months he comes back to her he goes I’d like to meet you I have something for you she goes okay what you got he goes I’ve traveled the world I’ve tested you know thousands of things I’ve studied I’ve talked to everybody and I found it I found the greatest fragments uh for you she smells a China musk she’s like this is perfect in the meantime he goes to um a jeweler and he goes I need you to make me the fanciest bottle you can come up with for this thing it’s like this like whatever diamond shape or whatever and so he comes up with this beautiful bottle he’s got China musk and then he tells her we’re going to do a launch and she goes yeah we could do it at this like small place and he goes no no no we need to do it somewhere bigger um how about the the Crown Plaza Hotel and she’s like that’s huge like we would need thous you know few thousand people to show up he goes that’s my job so she she baks the bet she books the hotel and she’s like you better not embarrass me so he goes home he’s like I got to figure out a way to get thousands of people to come to this Grand launch and he goes home and he writes this headline that says wife a famous Hollywood star swears under oath that her new perfume does not contain illegal sexual stimulants and he goes she is and then the sub the sub is he’s like um to prove its safety and that it is not what people are claiming she is doing a live testing where she will prove without a shadow of a doubt um that this uh that this fragrance works and is safe um at the Crown Plaza Hotel on this date and and like 10,000 people show up to this thing it’s like pack he cut he hires like armed security guards to walk in with handcuffs to a briefcase that contains the perfume so people see them walking in they’re like holy [ ] what is this thing that’s being presented in this way and there’s this whole story and it ends up becoming this bestseller and he’s like that headline but he’s like you know he broke down the elements he’s like wife of Hollywood star curiosity gap which which Hollywood star um swears under oath right that’s kind of like the conspiracy y the seriousness the drama the stakes of the situation and then doesn’t contain sexual stimulant so like how good is it people think it’s it’s it’s so good it should be illegal and you know evil Goods or the stuff you’re talking about with like your your cologne it like hits those same notes now that was back in the I don’t know like the 70s or something like that it’s a long time ago but same Playbook just redone today in 2025 and then Craig took it and put in Facebook ads and I’m taking it and putting quick quick side note too for anyone I know there’s like a vast internet world of gurus and people that talk about stuff and if a guru or like talking head in the marketing space doesn’t know Craig they’re they’re not really like tapped in on simple test yeah like actually like simple very like anyone that like I don’t know Craig personally I don’t know if he knows me but I know that operation is run like [ ] Skunk Works and like he he has popularized a lot of things like actually that framework has been seen on a Facebook ad from him that his name’s not you know that he’s you don’t you don’t know him exactly he’s a mad man um what else could you show me so give me a couple other stories that you think are are pretty badass that we should know about the stuff that’s working on Tik Tok underbrush gum is another example of really startup Scrappy entrepreneur that’s doing Millions a month now who makes this gum himself and they they built their own Factory and he’s had a crazy rush over the last month but uh like like Brands will go like this and then down and you got to find the new angles right like this that Trump video I just showed you will work for a month and then it’ll go away underbrush just hit a huge one this last month playing into Tik tok’s going away my small family business is going to get crushed and it was the founder doing like some ASMR video of like how he’s making it right while talking about that yeah well no and then he just gave that out and then the Army picked it up and all put their own play on it got so it was the same angle over and over again with different voices and some claiming it’s their business but that that did Millions for him over the the last like 30 days can I put you on the spot yeah let’s do a little magic trick so let’s brainstorm live yeah $100 million Tik Tok brand yep so where do we start I’m I’ll be your your wingman I’ll be your brainstorming partner let’s go right into gen Z and this younger generation that there’s so much change like if we’ve talked about looks maxing right where like explain what that is so looks maxing it’s a it’s interesting to say the least but there’s this subset of like young men that are hyperfocus on looks almost to the point of like it being super feminine but like they’re optimizing it yeah exactly and it’s like they their again their hearts in a good place most things can be boiled down to basic human desires of like they want to reproduce right but but how they’re going about it is all of a sudden like have you seen those funny videos on morning routines now it’s almost like Patrick baitman esque but it’s just like so elaborate you me trim each like that that’s so but there’s a market there there’s not enough products there like the um so it’s kind of like a community it sounds silly right when you say it sounds superficial but you know how different is that than you know maybe the bodybuilding movement in the early days it’s like these guys who take it really seriously and they’re counting the Reps and the sets and they’re figuring out you know um what type of training is going to lead to like you know this muscle right back here the lower head of the tricep and it’s to anyone else it sounds like Overkill but they got into it they got passionate about it and they wanted to like what if we took this to the nth degree Brian Johnson doing that with longevity right now yeah it sounds crazy it’s easy to make fun of him but he’s he’s like I’m going to take it to the full Mani Y and there’s people who like rallied behind that and they think that that’s cool and you’re saying look maxing is this early wave where people are doing that they’re they’re taking guys taking their looks as seriously as women take their looks yep because there’s we all know women have this huge you know like tutorials on eyelash extensions and every little you know nook and cranny now you’re saying guys are doing it’s happening exactly for guys and there’s no it’s an underserved Market you’ve seen products like there’s a product called jar size have you seen that oh jar size like your your jawline yeah exactly that’s like the one of the core foundations of looks maxing and so that product blew up right it’s like a jaw exercising literally just you just you just bite it each day does it work does it not I don’t know but then you know kids are right me and so you’re just studying culture it seems like you’re just watching and I want to point out one thing which is I had a really early friend in silica Valley teach me this I never forgot it he was the first product manager at Twitter and if you remember Twitter at the time was really like made fun of when it came out because it was you would text a phone number there was no app you just text a phone number whatever you wanted and anybody who was subscribed to your phone number would get a message that says like Sean’s eating just it would just say I’m eating a ham sandwich and so it got made fun of if you go look up old Tech crunch articles people make fun of it it’s this like frivolous stupid thing but not but it it turns out you know now it’s like the beacon of free speech like that’s what happens in the world right and so at the time I go why’d you take the job at Twitter did it you know like did it seem like the next big thing he goes no but he goes I had figured out that anytime there’s a phenomenon of behavior that you see as weird you don’t even understand why they’re doing it but they are in Deni undeniably they are doing it you should lean in as an investor or like a like an entrepreneur that’s your signal to lean in whereas most people use that same signal and they they point they laugh or they push away yep and it gets it gets harder the older you get but but staying tapped in on that and and not being oblivious to like the change in the future like cuz I was my dad with Instagram like what a stupid platform people posting pictures and now everyone knows you have to have a an Instagram and so that’s happening again and yeah I think it’s great advice like U we were hang out with Mr Beast last week and he has this thing he says which is you’re crazy until you’re successful then you’re a genius Y and he goes I’ve been doing the same thing the whole time you know I used to sit in my bedroom and make ridiculous videos at the time I had no money so his ridiculous videos back then or me counting to 100,000 and it’s like a 19-hour video or something or him taking a plastic knife and cutting through a plastic table uh with Just Like a Knife and he’s like it was just a stunt now it’s like taking a bulldozer and cutting through the Eiffel Tower right like he just scaled it up but he’s like at that time I was seeing as stupid and crazy why are you wasting all your time on this YouTube thing go to school get a degree get a good job and now I’m this you know I used to be weird now they call me passionate I used to be you know I used to be kind of like you know uh crazy now I’m obsessed and he’s like it’s he’s like I didn’t change the whole time and so kind of what you’re saying is you see the culture doing something that seems novel seems new Instinct as somebody who’s a little bit older is that’s stupid that’s stupid this and now you’re like get curious instead be be my advice is be an observer not a consumer on all of these platforms and so observe what’s actually happening like hold your opinion to yourself just be super matter of fact back and observe CU if if looks maxing views are going up month over month that just is I don’t really care what your opinion on it is like that just is that’s that’s that’s fact right and work backwards from that but so so Lix maxing I mean with that all of a sudden it’s literally this is how broad it becomes just like when pet supplements became a thing on Amazon it’s a category that becomes potential billions overnight with nothing in it and so men like who makes men skincare products well like two or three brands that aren’t even focused on it and so I mean right there you can build a anything so you would be like look maxing Trend go and then you would brainstorm maybe like skin care Mastic Gum like jawline stuff yeah I like to look at exploding topics and I like to still look at Amazon data like there’s different tools you can use and and you’ll see searches for those things and do you get afraid oh somebody’s already doing this or whatever no it’s like more validation of the idea and then you’re going to try to out you know out horsepower them on the marketing and then you come up with the hooks so like what would be like an example of a hook for let’s say let’s just go looks maxing now what’s what’s an example of the product it would be like a a gum or like a jaw thing or you think skincare which one would you go into let’s just say a gum because what consumable novel repeat buys probably relatively straightforward to do okay and now you have a gum great we got our product you want to name it it’s part of our improv here ooh Chad CPT yeah well would you prompt cuz you use AI for a lot ofu a ton I I actually do and that’s yeah let’s do it let’s let’s go on yeah uh it’s it’s actually gotten so so good do you think the jaw angle is the trick with the gum or would it be breath or would it what what do you think it would be it would be jaw you you’d call them feminine in some capacity for not having a a strong I like how your brain went there like I have this phrase that I say which is the only positioning is counter positioning yeah like a lot of people just want to say they’re position oh we’re healthy we’re good for you we don’t and it’s like everybody is saying those same things so you got to be counter you got to have something you’re is the enemy or you got to call you know diagnose a problem and then sell the solution so the only positioning is counter positioning so what you’re saying is if you’re not working on your jaw you probably have a feminine jaw exactly and if you can live with that if you can sleep at night with that that’s not you okay yeah okay so I start by asking Chad gbt like do you understand looks maxing yes it’s about small natural tweaks the goal is to maximize aesthetic appeal emphasis on facial Harry Symmetry and overall attractiveness um I’m creating a product for a jawline jawline enhancement gum some every day and I like I like dual meanings and stuff too I love when names have like you know like I like double on tandas I like I like stuff like that so that that’s where I would probably go with this I would say uh that would consume every day I’m looking for a clever powerful name that has you know dual meaning chisel so chisel’s a a nice I feel like that’s a nice name is that it gave you yeah chisel’s the first one uh masticate is chewing but also sounds intense and Chad chew these are all great names you know aesthetic I like chisel though chisel’s good yeah chisel is my favorite so far all right so we got chisel gum Y and now you got to come up with how we’re going to Market this so you’re going to go to your creator Army you tell them what you want them to do you just let them go let them go and this has been part of respecting the future but understanding that I’m not the person in that anymore letting go yeah exactly and so let’s pretend we’re those creators we’re not so we’re like we’re going to be you know white belts at this whereas there’s there’s black belts but like I see videos trending on Tik Tok all the time about transformation so it’s like weight loss whatever and so you could almost make it where you’re not talking about a gum obviously it’s like you know somebody being like my you know they use the trending music that people are usingg influencer and they would put him up there and they would like highlight the different things on the facial Symmetry and this and that and then like look at his job line right why this you’re saying why this person is attracted the human mind is attracted to symmetry the golden ratio stuff like that you you would use like oh I’m kind of teaching you a science about why or or you could even do like why guys don’t think this guy is attractive but girls do yep and you’re like oh okay what’s the difference there or you could do a transformation and be like I did five things I took creatine I did this yep the third thing is I started chewing this gum daily honestly I I didn’t believe it but look at this boom boom and you’re like it’s available on Amazon back to my story about like you know my transformation it be a video like that yep that was one of the first ones that blew up on evil Goods was was literally that this girl had like hormonal acne and it was like the it was the three things that helped with that and she showed a before picture and after and that was part of it and it just went nuclear all right so we got our our our our hooks there um we got our brand chisel so what was the other one you said you’re like basically we can fund a startup right now we can find an operator it’s a request for operator yes luxury pet is screaming at me like Louis Vuitton is doing full popups of $500 dog bowls and it just shows again it’s like luxury is such an interesting world right because it’s just like signaling and status and what are people willing to pay there’s no luxury Pet Brands yet dude you hit it again where my initial reaction is oh my God that’s so stupid what a waste how I can’t believe people are doing this but you’re saying people are doing this period Vuitton that’s the important partou Vu valid this is stupid it’s the the second part of the sentence people are doing this that’s a fact Jack you can’t deny that well I’ve just seen so I had this idea probably like 18 months ago when I was just hearing what people spend on their pets like it’s actually insane from a like even the pet supplements you know it’s like they’re paying more for pet supplements than human supplements and so I’m like okay there’s something here I wonder if you could ever do anything luxury and then Louis Vuitton rolls out literally like you know it’s like lovers like pet lovers and they’re doing $500 dog blls and you know $300 you know high-end leather collars I’m just like oh validated right and how many do you have to sell in that area too to to have a successful business you know yeah yeah yeah would you so my initial hesitation would have been can you build luxury on Tik Tok like isn’t Tik Tok kind of the like you know it’s more like a Walmart than it is like a luxury but maybe I’m wrong maybe it’s just there’s a billion people on it and so you can’t generalize like that that and that’s why I love that’s why I said let’s not do a disservice to the app and the and the platform they built that’s why I did on Amazon with genius genius is a is a very high-end supplement brand like we were selling um you know I me we had we had $130 product that was by all intensive purposes like luxury and like oh that would never work on Amazon it’s a discount site and and Tik Tok has a lot of those components in it now too but again you tie back to a billion people and you tie back to I my cologne’s $90 so it’s that that’s not that’s not cheap right it’s not a $30 cologne $30 Colones out sell us but I only need to sell one of those for every three and um and it’s done well so I I think it’s it’s there and how would you if you did this luxury thing like what what would you do to make it to build the brand because I think you study High fashion you study like kind of the the cool stuff in culture what would you do if you were Translating that to the Tik Tok world what would you do for for luxury pet brand do you know Renee Gerard like Peter teal yeah like mic Theory mhm I love that and so I explain the simple explanation of that I mean people don’t know what they want so they want what others want and so from our perspective as brand owners influencing influencers and finding you know those names I think the most straightforward way to run this one is is find one of these streamers or you know if I could get a clip of Drake using my cologne and then give it to the Creator Army we would do millions of dollars and I think you can do that imp where I don’t know if Kim Kardashian has a freaking poodle or whatever do but but not even that you don’t even need that big of name just someone in that space and then you feed it to the Army and I think that’s the most straightforward thing and I think it would go overnight yeah I almost wonder if you could even just use the outrage um so like yeah of the cost of it of the cost of think I can’t believe people are doing this this is the craziest thing I’ve seen celebrities are doing this it it makes me sick whatever and some people in the like it’ll get to so many people and most of the comments will be negative about the idea but it’s just going to get so much reach that some people are going to either just it’ll plant the seed that this exists y that I’m not doing it that other people are doing it that hey maybe I would do that I do love my pet yep or even like you could even play into Louis Vuitton doing it like with the you know there’s I think there’s a lot of different ways to approach it and I just like those areas where there’s there’s that much margin to play there’s just more and and again it ties back to like human nature we we exist in a culture in a world where we’ve created so much abundance like bottom line like like we we could afford things like Universal basic income and we’re automating the hell out of everything and anything and everything is is freaking possible and so with that mind there’s really no shortage like you see some of the services that exists for billionaires like it is just the most absurd hyper but it exists and the people providing those do well it’s not like a hormos thing he says sell I want to sell to people with more money or whatever yeah yeah something like that one of his genius Insight sell to the people with money but there is a there is a like a actual like business framework here which is if you take what the rich have but you find a way to democratize it you can build a huge business so Uber is a classic example of this rich people had private drivers where you know when they’re done with when they’re done with the meeting they send a text done driver pulls up they get in they get out they don’t have to go worry about parking and gas some there’s a guy who does that Uber democratized that private driver experience and it literally that was their homepage was a private driver for every everyone um and so like that became that was the start of uber black cars um you know even airbnbs what is Airbnb it’s having a vacation home y being able to go and stay in a home in you know Tahoe or in all these different places Airbnb became a thing that rich people have vacation homes in different cities but now everybody gets access to that in a in a in a different way Marquee Jets was private private flight so instead of buying a private jet you know $50 million $100 million you would instead uh buy a fractional share and get to ride certain hours and there was a huge Market of people that wanted to do that even jsx now probably to some extent jsx is exactly like that so so you know that’s a b if you can find a way to drop the cost and you know even du a lingo like we have rich people who will hire a mandarin tutor for their for their kid but then if you have an app that can teach your kid you know a foreign language in a in a way it’s doing the same thing and so I think that’s um that is just generally a business model what what are the mistakes people make so like if somebody was to go into this what are the common Pitfall someone could fall into that you could just like save super top of the funnel here how they treat those Affiliates it’s very culture-based it’s I’ve seen Brands there’s so much money being made right now brand owners need to be super generous because you know a Market’s a market and right now people are paying you talked about the goalie challenge yeah explain this because that was in an old episode so explain what they were doing this brand comes in and and in an effort to get as many creators as possible put together all these prizes with like the number number one if you did a million dollars in sales for them in a month I believe they’d give you a condo in Brickle or the cash equivalent which was like 600 Grand or something like that like Lamborghini was the next one it was like this like rewards to your list Rolexes left and right and you’re selling goalie gummies like they just make these like apple CER vinegar gummies basically which also was a health kind of like a holistic health Wellness things apple cider vinegar has benefits in your gut and whatever maybe maybe yeah that well that at the time was the the Nar the Creator said so yeah this 22-year-old who’s trying trying to win a condo told me that that’s how this the world works oh man do you believe any advertising at this point no once you’ve seen how the sausage is made you’re like there’s a reason I hate supplements too you I’m not launching new supplements I mean there’s some good stuff out there but overall when you really peel back all the like really like a decent amount of Health advice online nowadays is coming from 18year olds making conspiracy videos yeah that’s pretty wild it’s just reality so a brand like goalie comes in though and they they set the stage for how creators are being treated and obviously they have a lot of money and they’re they’re trying to mess the game up for everyone else right they can afford that maybe lose some money but then if you’re this startup brand owner and you’re coming in and you’re no man I don’t want to give you 25% commission I’m going to give you 20 and and and that that can be super off-putting and so in this current ERA I would say and even the culture from like like the group we own part of it’s like abundance it’s like put it out there it’s going to come back and I think as an owner of a brand like bringing that not you know accepting that we are a different generation and not not infringing on them I think that’s the best thing you can do right all right what give me your like just summarize if I if I tuned out and I just need to hear one thing to summarize what your thoughts are on this kind of Tik Tok opportunity give me a little summary and I want to ask you about some other stuff millions are being printed on Tik Tok shop like what are you doing just starting Brands and and trying to get as many I’m trying to perfect short form content and short form content distribution like period from a from a brand why do you believe so much in short form content because it’s it’s it’s changing the world in front of our eyes like like it it’s from personalities we know to songs we know like it’s so like music even we’re hearing songs that are blowing up from this world and and that’s just it’s the future D we have this friend Connor price have you seen what he does on Tik Tok wait who is he again he’s he’s rapper white guy rapper yes yes yes yes yes yes he he used to work in Ramon’s Warehouse like moving boxes no [ ] and he was like and then during covid Warehouse shuts down he goes home his wife’s like you should put your music out there let’s do something we’re just sitting at home um and he was really shy about it and she’s like you got to start making content he puts out a YouTube video and it gets like you know 11 views like most YouTube videos do and then she had this genius she’s like she’s the real Mastermind behind it because she was like let’s make a Tik Tok and he was like he had the same reaction Tik Tok that’s stupid that’s that’s not serious like I’m I’m an artist I’m musician I’m not just one of these kids dancing yeah and what he did was he started making these videos we’ll put one on the the screen here so people can watch it but he created a little skit so his instead of just saying what I would have done like a boomer is I would have been like hey guys I got a new song here or I would just make a video of like playing the song yeah and guess what happens when you when you’re scrolling through Tik Tok you’re swiping every 3 seconds and a song starts to play that you’ve never heard before you just keep swiping like it doesn’t grab you right away yeah so instead he started doing these funny skits where he would he was three characters almost like an Ed Murphy movie he would open the door like every SK starts him opening the door and there’s uh that’s the rapper coming into the studio he’s got the guy with the headphones on that’s him him as the producer and then they have the weird brother and the weird brother is kind of the key to make the whole thing work so he would walk in and he’d be like he has one where he’s taking a carrot and he’s drilling holes in a carrot and you’re like and it’s like the sound of a drill it’s the carrots visually weird and they’re both like like he’s being weird again and then he’s like let’s get down to work um you want to play that song and then the then you hear this flute playing and they both look at the brother and he’s playing the carrot flute but it’s the beat of the song like it just they he overlaid it that way as if that was the beat and the producer’s like Go With It Go with it and then he starts rapping and then then the song hits and the song is almost the punchline of the skit yep and dude he became like independently no record label billion streams on Spotify doing no marketing on Spotify only on Tik Tok off that if I want to summarize all of this it it almost seems dark for a second but like one of my favorite you know quotes is you know if you tell a lie enough times it becomes truth and that was obviously War propaganda back in the day but you take that idea and then you just think purely in terms of views and more specifically cost of acquisition of views so you have like a um you know if you’re a tobacco company whenever and you’re getting doctors to promote it like you have the money to get the views and the and and control the narrative right and the more you can do that like it’s usually a pay-to-play game except in these windows when all a sudden an Andrew tapate burst on the scene doesn’t matter what he’s saying is real or not he’s getting seen a billion times a month and so all of a sudden that become there’s some narrative there being formed that he has serious impact on and these Gold Rush windows are when there’s the ability for normal people without you know multinational level marketing budgets to form a mainstream narrative or get a billion views on a Spotify and you know become something because of these windows we couldn’t have done that he couldn’t have done that without Tik Tok like he just the old Instagram you wouldn’t have gone viral on there’s no means of connecting yes this amazing circle like 12 years ago Instagram comes out and imagine if you were like what are you doing all day today day it’s like oh I’m filming myself I’m making I’m cooking at home and taking pictures of it or making videos of it like you’re a weirdo dud get a job you doing so you go from weirdo wasting his time but you were early on the platform to now let’s say you wanted to go become a food Creator it’s like dude it’s too saturated man it’s it’s impossible to win it’s like but now everybody’s accepted that influencers are a thing and that they have they they can they can move product they can they can become rich they can become famous doing this and what you’re saying is kind of like on Tik Tok it’s the same model but instead of you becoming a famous Creator it’s your product can become famous by putting it in the hands of talented people who are going to make all kinds of videos taking literally like a thousand shots on goal a month and if they get the right story or the right premise and they keep innovating on that your product gets famous that way yep whereas dude you weren’t going to be able to walk into Walmart or Target and get on the Shelf yep you’re not even going to be able to really go on to Amazon and just rank number one in these categories cuz they’re so competitive right you’re not going to become a influential influential Creator on Instagram it’s harder this is where the Green Field is my my dad called me an idiot when I was pouring into Amazon like actually like you know like like question my sanity as like a as a human right like it was like a crazy experience now hind side it’s like God thank God $30 million later yeah thank God I didn’t listen to my parents you know and and it’s just it’s just weird that’s why I admire guys elon’s a good example I think when you look through things look at things from like a very groundup perspective and don’t take the the common there’s so much Arbitrage everywhere because humans are narrative machines and we live off that so it’s like common knowledge becomes whatever and and yet technology is reshaping everything and that that’s why I just want to keep leaning into that and being I think more people that aren’t afraid to just send it with like that in mind in some capacity the more it gives others the confidence to to stand up on their own right and and do their own thing you know right I like that you said send it you have this phrase I like so we talk about looks maxing you have said this phrase before life maxing yeah and I kind of like the philosophy but I don’t really fully know it because you know we’ve only hung out in group settings a bunch of times what is the life maxing philosophy is this something that you think more people should be kind of taken as a mantra yeah I I think I think so I think there’s a lot of exential dread in today’s world and there’s also a lot of us trying to ascribe even among successful people you mean especially among suc uccessful people especially among successful people and it manifests in all all sorts of weird ways you know look at Brian Johnson um I’m kidding crazy take but love you Brian no he’s awesome he really is he really is and I I think he’s a good example of someone that that’s all in on life maxing because everyone my thing is we have this he took it literally he did yeah lifespan maxing lifeam maing but we have this blank you know uh scorecard right and and we have this finite time here on the earth and I think the more you can fill it up with things that you thoroughly enjoy and then kind of like maxing out those stats so to speak we’re capable of so much and instead we fall into this like oh I’m only going to chase money or oh I’m only going to do this where living a well-rounded life what’s the difference between just being well-rounded and life maxing are they the same thing with just a cool name or is there a difference Pro I I I don’t see many people it ties back to that full sending it thing I don’t see many people that are really like yo I’m living for this like what was your your shower thoughts this morning my my shower thought was I realized that the the the optimal way in terms of uh how the optimal mindset for me is to be ignorant of the past realistic about the present and delusional about the future yeah too many people are living in their past or they vacation there all the time just going to visit and they tell themselves it’s for all kinds of reasons maybe it’s therapies tell them to go think about their childhood maybe it’s they’re saying I’m going to go learn lessons reality is the more you live in your past the less happy you are yeah um you want to be delusional about the future why not why be realistic about the future because you can be only when you’re a little bit delusional about the future do you actually like kind of blow your own mind you get you get to do more than what you thought was reasonable but then you got to be realistic about the present if you’re just delusional about the present you’re like I am the best dad but you’re not then you go nowhere right oh I’m already Uber duuber successful like bro your bank accounts you know three digits right now it’s like you got to be realistic but just say like all right that’s where I am but it’s not where I’m always going to be forget the pass it don’t matter if I failed 10 times like most the most successful people when you talk to them they’re like yeah 10 years you grinded if you ask them be like what was that like what were you doing it’s almost hard for them to even remember yeah and it’s not because it was so long ago it’s cuz there’s actually like a a useful part of your brain that just blocks it out like it’s like my wife she did like natural delivery of birth like three times and if I ask her about it it’s like her body has like a mechanism that’s like you never forgot that you need to I never forgot I’m traumatized I’m like how could you do this to me D she like what you talking I’m with you I’m fainting right and and she’s and she’s like forgot about it she’s like only remembers the good it’s like wow your brain gave you a survival mechanism that was actually really good for you that you don’t remember how bad it was how hard it was and I think ignorant of the past realistic about the present delusional about the future I think that’s a good motto to live by so I take that there’s two things I’m obsessed with this idea of character design and that that’s what I’m living real time I think we have the ability when you zoom out long enough to create literally whatever type of thing you want to be like you can you can truly design that and so you have that and then you have another idea I’m obsessed with which is bezos’s 80-year Regret minimization framework where he wants to like that view of his deathbed you know how he wants his few regrets as possible and so when you work through those two Avenues you can quite literally like do anything so explain the character design because I’ve heard the regret minimization which is basically like if I’m dying I want to have the least regrets possible so therefore today which dis if I have a fork in the road yeah you know do the one that will lead to the least regrets when I’m 80 when I’m 90 when I’m 100 that comes back to to your piece be relatively delusional about the future while being very aware of where you’re at today while pretty much disregarding everything right and so like I look at like like this is music I’ve been working on right and I remember going to uh a show in Puerto Rico John Summit and I was like you know in the booth right next to the DJ thing and just watching him command that crowd and the energy and like the impact and I was like you know if I’m 80 years old and I didn’t at least try to send it in this space I’ll regret it and and then I start thinking through the character lens of what does an artist look like and what is this like things I have in me so I’m not like completely disconnected from reality but now taking all of the hey this is a business hey now the product’s music hey this is streaming hey you know marketing and and that’s that’s where I’m at with it one of the things that you’re reminding me of when you’re talking about let’s say the music production or getting people to remember is you were talking about whether it’s marketing or music or if you have something good to say you almost owe it to yourself it’s like do you believe in the thing you made the thing you have to say because people are very bashful about marketing they’re bashful about putting it out there I know this I would write things I wouldn’t even send it to my own friends and family I wouldn’t post on social media I wouldn’t promote my product I just kind of wanted it to be organic and I when I look back at that I’m like damn I did myself a disservice like did I think the thing I did was good or not if I think it was good then I owe it to that to do marketing just to send it to fully send it send it and you know when you uh when you talk about storytelling music you got to study the art of how do you get your your stuff out there it’s a phenomenal skill it it’s like a crazy crazy like that’s the vehicle you put the package in the trunk but you need the vehicle that’s going to actually get it out there to the masses it’s crazy dude we’re going to watch this video this this YouTube video right now you just said it yourself what you said in this video will make people millions of dollars if they all they did was just try to act on it give it two years try to act on it you will become a millionaire if you just follow what you just said and if I go look at the YouTube video stats the retention chart is going to look like just a downhill slope most people are going to click off within 30 seconds and then by the end of this there’s only going to be you know 25% of people are still watching this at the end that means 75% of people clicked on this because they wanted something out of their life and then are not going to even stick with it enough to watch the video yep but that’s just the laws of nature that but with that in mind I think this last chunk of the video where we’re talking about these stories and the ability like the model is becoming less important the more I understand people and and and tapping into to whatever that innate thing in all of us is is way more important and I want to bring that out of more people CU I’ve been through like a ton of stuff in a in a short period of time and I think the more I can bring that forward the more General impact there’ll be there there’s one of my other favorite internet Clips you know for for the Elon musks and like what Brett Hancock do you have him on or like yeah sorry there’s those Minds that are just like obviously incredible in their own space but then there’s that Elon interview and it’s like El you inspire everyone in this room who inspires you it’s like Kanye West of course you know it’s just he said it it’s hilarious and it’s it’s it’s that’s the opposite side of that like yeah okay Kanye is nuts in every way but just that ability and desire to create and stand up for new things and and like have that confidence in yourself regardless what people say is nothing short of not only incredible but necessary for for people I love the sended attitude I mean I want to make merch with the send it thing and also I think you you made me realize there’s probably the way I used to think about it which is well-rounded um you know Mike poser came on the podcast famous musician he wrote like took a pill and all those songs first song went viral and he tells the story he’s like first song went viral I’m like of course that’s what I do you know like uh I guess that’s what I do I put out a song I go triple platinum and then the second song Went double Platinum then single Platinum then no platinum and and then he was on the Shelf the record label was like it’s not even worth paying to produce your music because we don’t think it’ll sell but also you can’t go do something else you’re under contract so he was like dude I’m [ ] out of luck he like went back to school and started learning how to sing better he’s like dud I was work on my craft and then he came back and now he’s had he’s like had this Resurgence but he talked about he goes I had to look at my life and realize yes I was Uber duuber successful in my career but I was a desert Wasteland in relationships and health and whatever he’s like that I realized was just not success for me and so I was inspired by that and I started thinking yeah you do want it to be well-rounded you want to be the you want to be the dad the husband you also want to be having fun you also want to be you know being creative and making cool [ ] and being successful making money but the well-rounded thing is more like a check the box it’s like am I doing you know a sufficient amount of X Y and Z whereas life maxing is saying what would it look look like if I really sent it in terms of my fitness like yeah I’m going to work out anyways but like I know you you do tie right you’re like I’m going to out for an hour anyways what could I do that makes me like what what would be full send on this workout dramatically better that that’s the great example it’s like two years ago I couldn’t fight at all and now I feel pretty comfortable like in there with with a lot of people right that aren’t named Jon Jones you know um but but just taking things seriously and really put that notch on your belt it’s like now music or even like learning Spanish is one that I’m like going to do and I’m going to take it very seriously and it’s not going to be I’m half learning Spanish I’m going to be fluent in you know do you do these one at a time or how do you how do you like how do you not stretch yourself that’s what I’m discovering it’s like like how much and I like that healthy balance of pushing yourself to we’re capable of so much more than we give ourselves credit for I’ve already I’ve already seen that but there is some line and so I don’t have a good answer for that but that’s I’m trying to also be an open book and show it all real time like I want you to look back at my fighting clips from two years ago and I want you know to meet like all of it I want to be an open story that that is Ono and constantly iterating so this year I um Jesse hler came on the podcast he gave this idea of a misogi he’s like oh this’s this Japanese tradition and the way kind of the American translation or the way he translated the Japanese idea is um one Grand Challenge a year but specifically like do something so Grand that it changes you yeah that it changes you so then it’s like so he for him it was like he ran this 100 mile race like and he every year he picks a different one one year was write a book uh another year was so he’s done this for like 15 years or so and I was like damn I never really do something like that right like I have like New Year’s resolutions things I want to improve about myself but I never really like put out the Mogi the Grand Challenge for the year and so I made one I was like all right I want to and I like that it’s one because I was like oh I want to do this and this and this and all that was going to do was guarantee none of them happen y so all right what’s the one for this year and I was like I would love to be I was like I want to have more fun in my life I have fun playing basketball I have fun doing the podcast I have fun you know in business my kids where can I where can I dial up fun and I was like I want to be able to jam out with music CU music is like its own little like magic potion music makes you feel good in 13 seconds I can play a song and change your mood in 13 seconds there’s not much I can say to you that’s going to do that like to change your mood for the better um and so I was like all right I want to be able to jam out on a on a piano but then I was like all right what’s the life maxing version of this so I was like all right not only am I going to learn to not only just going to learn piano like I’m going to get good I’m going to be able to jam out to any song I want on the piano that’s going to be my mission two what if I could also teach my daughter she’s five I was like what if she could do it with me now I’m getting dad points while I’m getting piano points at the same time finding those synergies to weave it all together like oh it’s integration I’m not choosing family or my piano hobby is both so she comes with me to every single lesson she begs me to do piano now every night I’m like okay that’s cool then I was like all right what would be like the max out the full send version of this if I really was to send it what would I do and at first I was like what would I make a song would I form at a theater and I felt like that’s kind of playing somebody else’s game so I think a key part is like pick what’s real for you uh don’t just like take somebody else’s scorecard and be like that’s now how I’m going to judge myself so I had this idea from my cousin of um go play go play a recital at an old folks home okay I was like oh that’ be just like more fun like that would just be more fun for me more meaningful for me versus like post it online and get a bunch of views or perform it in front of other people it’s like dude go to this place where I’ve been to a bunch of like senior centers uh not a lot is happening there like I could go be there Kanye cuz there’s nobody else there ab and for me that would be meaningful like I made other people’s day brighter if I did that um so I was like to me that was a real Learning lesson of like how to choose these side quests how to choose these misogi these these one-year challenges in a way that I’m going to use now going forward absolutely I think you hit the nail on the head with being hyper individualized like my my life maxing scorecard is not is not yours and it shouldn’t be we’re all drawn to different things and and I think keeping it individual is important while keeping that like my main framework is like don’t let anyone else dictate it for you or don’t let anyone tells tell you what you can’t be or can’t do right what’s your what’s yours like what do you what is that scorecard look like for you so I’m like moti starting to take like a a back burner thing I’m putting you know being a dad at the the top of that which has been so that that’s like reshuffling everything because I’m learning what it means to be present at as an individual and that means like you know we Less phone which inherently means like it starts to crumble some of the other pieces but the beautiful part of this is when you put your priorities in in place things start to handle themselves like then all of a sudden you start thinking smarter just naturally like okay like that still has to get done so I have to trust you know my team for that and this and that so that that’s at the top of it um the the the music is the second second piece and then still the other uh you know it’s like I’m taking content as one of these these things now like just from uh storytelling like some of the stuff I’m going to do on YouTube I think is going to is going to well let’s talk about content real quick cuz when I first met you um through a mutual friend you showed up and you had this like again you always have a different like crazy outfit on and somebody was like oh you got to check out his Instagram and I go and I was like bro like I was having a great conversation with you and then I went to your inam I was like I would never talk to this guy your brand name was like the genius SE o every video was like Dan Bilzerian meets like inst meets like uh drop shipper like it was like oh man this guy’s selling courses and every video was like over the top he’s talking about how you can make millions instantly it was a get-rich quick Vibes but I met you I was like dude you you yeah and you and you were like I’m like you’re like it’s an experiment like I’m being intention I’m intentionally turning that knob up that way because I want to see what happens and you were into that at the time I think now you’re you’re making a shift but like can you just describe what what you did there because I almost once I met you and I was like oh that’s he created a character so my my I like that that’s actually respectable in a way I I’m huge like one of my core things is obviously intense ownership of like oneself and one of my problems after I sold that business with genius I had my first daughter I was really frustrated with the world like I just was and it started to become like a cope and like a you know other people have weird ways of ducking ownership and responsibility and like disconect connecting from their own unhappiness and I remember just thinking like I don’t like where the world’s headed and so I could sit there and keep crying about it or I could try to have some influence or some dent on it and that’s what kind of Drew me to intentional social media I had tried to do like this cool Health content like like I I was doing not not full Brian Johnson but like Dave asprey level stuff like seven eight years ago like hyperbaric chamber red light and like literally nobody cared like just nobody cared and now in hindsight the nice guy was finishing last yeah and in hindsight it was CU I didn’t know how to make the content yet right but I saw this like clear formula of oh my God if I post a car like I am actually rich I still a business and if you post a car or watch or whatever people respond and so as that started to work I started doubling down on those those things and um it wasn’t until like you kind of got to play the game to change the game a little bit it was is was my opinion and um that’s when you met me kind of in that wave where like pseudo relevant even if maybe not in the right right lens but until you have learned those skills and learned to kind of you know develop a platform then then literally nobody cares like nice guy does finished last and so I guess that’s just been my personal Evolution like it’s been fun because I I got I’ll be the first to say I got way too far in that stuff like I got lost in it like that actually does happen Ben your your partner um flagged that for me like seven or eight months ago in a really casual Ben way but like Ben’s non-confrontational what did he say to you it it was just something along the lines of like well if you if you do that stuff enough don’t you start to kind of Believe it or or become it and that stuck with me and like I don’t think he knows that stuck with me I don’t know if he remembers he said that but there were a lot of little things like that that prompted me to go like an actor you stay in character because you’re doing it for the role but then at some point it’s method acting yeah you lose yourself in the you get lost in the S and actually that happened to me and and unfortunately like a lot of the things I was leaning into do make you like cool whatever so now there’s this this audience that looks up to you in a very specific light so you have two choices you keep down the same path or you say whoops you know like this is what I actually am and so I feel like I’ve separated a lot of the negative Parts while like I love fashion I love design like I I genuinely do I think it’s individualism I think there’s like you know um can we do the fashion uh okay so so here’s me I have Nike shoes is it should have been just New Balance to go full dad mode I’m wearing sweatpants and a plain black shirt those Kobe though the no these are not kobies these are $90 Nikes I just like this color of green so let’s go head to toe teach me what you what you got on San Francisco this is and I love it I got matching Socks today that’s only because I knew I had to step my game up for you normally it’d be mismatch socks it’d be more sweat jeans these are Lulu at least and then like this this might be my daughter’s but I was like oh hold on he’s going to have hella accessories let me come strong with the with accessories than usually so start with the wrist how much do you think this is you start with the wrist is that like part of the fashion build around this talk about Louis Vuitton uh that looks it looks fancy to me all right my honest guess would have been that that’s a $20,000 watch there’s a a Vintage Oakley from like the 90s and it was like $3,500 okay so so I don’t believe that like expense and cost like I have some expensive stuff but I think like it’s way cooler to put together like unique kind of stuff this shirt is uh this this gentleman the Brand’s erl I can’t pronounce his name but he’s like the head photographer for Vogue and like he did all Kendrick Lamar stuff and again not super expensive but like very on the come up the jeans were from Kanye’s like this is probably like it’s not cheap like probably three 300 bucks or something but not mind-blowing um Kanye’s free Larry Hoover tour with with Drake these were probably like 150 bucks like bucks not expensive Louis Vuitton boots which were expensive they’re $2500 I love what Fel is one of my business Idols I think there’s a huge gap between um like Artistry culture and actual business frell has that quote it’s uh creativity without business is victimization and Business Without creativity is just dumb and I think he stepping into the head of Louis Vuitton like a brand I would typically never wear or care about is the perfect example of those two things merging creativity with meaningful Enterprise Bernardo knows top three richest people because of that all right I got a little bit I got a little bit cooler I don’t think I could pull it off you pull off but maybe I don’t know you got to give me like the uh the dad baby steps version of these I’m goingon to start just I’m gonna start at the wrist take a take a simple and then we’ll go from there actually I should just show up for um we should have done a thing where it’s like I don’t know if you’ve seen Rick Glassman he does these interviews where he does a podcast but he’ll go and then it’ll cut and they’ll switch outfits it’s so funny when they do [ ] like that but we’ll just pretend I did that that’s awesome Rob thanks for coming on man you uh every should find you rob the bank which is one of the greatest handles of all time thank you for that well you were already saying it I didn’t come up with it but I was like dude that should be your handle like that should be your brand what is this the genius CEO no no no you should be rob the bank and and just wait full disclaimer before we you know my last company was the genius brand so I didn’t just you know it just looked bad it looked bad but no thank you for having me seriously like this means the world I really appreciate it awesome thanks for doing it