Sam interviews Laird Hamilton — big wave surfer, inventor, and entrepreneur behind Laird Superfood and XPT — about building businesses from athletic obsession, the IPO experience, personal finance philosophy, sobriety, and how to keep the wheel of life balanced. Laird shares raw, philosophical takes on competition, aging, community, and why hard physical stress is something modern people have to deliberately seek out.
Speakers: Sam Parr (host), Laird Hamilton (guest, big wave surfer, entrepreneur)
Cold Open: Training Hungover [00:00:00]
Laird: I used to use the guilt from drinking to make me feel motivated about training. I’d be like, oh yeah, I could drink Pinot Noir — cup, you know, bottle, two, three bottles, no problem. Eat dinner, go to sleep, wake up 5 a.m., train like an animal. What’s the problem? No problem.
Sam: There’s a problem.
Laird: I don’t see a problem.
Sam: You could train hungover?
Laird: Oh yeah. Like an animal.
Introductions [00:00:20]
Sam: Yeah man, we’re live. We just get things going and I can kind of fill you in. You probably don’t know anything about who we are, do you?
Laird: No. But that’s not unusual — I don’t know much about anything, really.
Sam: Good. Same. I mean, I’ve learned about you. This podcast is called My First Million. I owned a fairly successful media company that I sold, and one of our products was this podcast — it’s listened to by millions of people a month. It’s mostly a business podcast, and I’m a health nut and a health nerd. I was a former college athlete. So I’m going to talk to you about Laird Superfood and some of your businesses. That’s where we’re going to spend most of the time.
But the reason I wanted to have you on is that we normally don’t have guests — normally it’s my co-host Shaan, who’s not here. Someone asked us, “Who’s your dream guest?” and I said, “Laird Hamilton.” They asked why, and I described it as best I could. You said it in another interview a while back — you said something like your life is like a wheel, and business is one spoke, health is another spoke, relationships is another one, and all these spokes have to be nice in order for the whole wheel to work. I was like, that describes exactly why I like you. Because I like making money, I like being fit, I like having a great relationship with my wife — all that stuff.
I’m normally never nervous to talk to anyone, but you and Andrew Huberman made me nervous, because I look up to you guys.
Laird: Well, I appreciate that. I’m thankful for that.
Sam: I was telling friends you were coming on. Most people know who you are, but for those who don’t, I’d try to describe you and I’d be like — well, he started as a surfer, then a big wave surfer, did some modeling. He’s a hunk. You’ve got this quintessential surfer look. And then you evolved, and you and your wife now have this almost zen-like attitude, so a lot of people like me turn to you just to hear your advice on living. You’ve also started Laird Superfood, XPT, layered apparel.
What would you say is where you are now? How do you describe yourself in a sentence or two — your professional existence?
Laird: I always — because of Hawaii, the way we grew up there, there’s a lot of friction because you have all these different cultures — my favorite description is when somebody asks, “Where are you from?” and I go, “I’m a human from Earth.” If you’re something different, then we should probably sit down and have an incredible conversation. But otherwise, let’s get past that and get into what else we do.
None of us are what we do. We are who we are, and then we do these other things. Water sports, fitness, health and wellness — I’ve made a career out of that. That’s been a beautiful thing. But I’m concerned about being healthy, living a healthy lifestyle, being a good example for my children, having a good relationship. I just know I feel best when I have all those things.
Origin Story: From Surfing to Business [00:06:00]
Sam: I always knew you from Riding Giants and a few other movies. That’s how I first heard of you. Then I learned about Laird Superfood, the creamer, and I’ve been a customer for years — but I never would have tagged you as a business guy. I saw you on some talk show with this electric golf board and I thought, he’s just tinkering. Then I saw Laird Superfood go public, and I read the report and I was like, oh — when you went public you were doing something like $40 million a year in sales and a $400 million market cap. I never would have pictured this.
What kind of — did you always consider yourself interested in business, or was it just “what the hell, let’s try it”?
Laird: No, I mean, early in my career in surfing, I looked at where the money was. At the time it was in the apparel business. So around 18, 19, I got exposed to the apparel business. I went to work in downtown Los Angeles in a sweatshop, learning from a Korean guy who came to America with $38 in his pocket and had a $10 million sweatshop business making denim jeans. I learned the whole cut-and-sew garment business — real life, every aspect of it.
Because I didn’t participate in the conventional side of surfing — the tour — I was always kind of rogue. I focused on big wave riding. That was the thing I was intrigued by and best suited for. But there wasn’t a big platform. It wasn’t like the NBA or NFL.
Sam: Your wife was volleyball, right? So you’re both giants in small fields.
Laird: Yeah. Volleyball and big wave surfing — both still cool, but tiny. And I think that forced us to be more creative. You subsidize your passion. Surfers go work at restaurants. They do whatever they can so they can be in the ocean. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger laying bricks.
Sam: Exactly.
Laird: So you just do whatever you have to do to subsidize your love. Gabby and I have always had to be creative in our careers just because we were in such niche sports. That forced us to be a little more entrepreneurial. Whether it was she-modeled, I modeled — I did some film work. We did what we had to.
We’ve had sponsors, and I think in the evolution of an athlete, depending on your brand and what you’ve done, you evolve into wanting to be your own sponsor. We’ve been real selective, and that’s contributed to our longevity. But it’s also encumbered us a little, because we just won’t endorse anything for money. We’ve been cautious about things that reflect our authenticity.
Laird: That’s what led us to Laird Superfood especially — I wouldn’t do energy drinks and other stuff that just isn’t good for you.
Sam: You’ve got to promote good stuff.
Laird: Exactly. I have some people that look up to me because of my surfing and some of the feats I’ve done, and I look at that as a responsibility to conduct myself in a certain way. I want to do that anyway for my own thing — so it’s a little selfish in one sense. But Laird Superfood, XPT, Laird Apparel — these things reflect who I am. Not everything in Laird Superfood is something I love. I don’t want every flavor just because I have to make flavors for people.
Sam: I saw an interview where someone asked what flavors you like and you said, “I hate that one.”
Laird: Yeah, I don’t drink that one. But you have to make stuff for everybody.
Revenue Streams and Business Overview [00:13:00]
Sam: Are those the three main revenue streams — Laird Superfood, XPT, and clothing?
Laird: Those are the main ones. I do speaking, other sponsors we work with — that’s more like the media category. I have a farm project I’m working on right now. And both Gabby and I work with Land Rover. I work with Fremont watches. So there’s media and then there’s some sponsorship and endorsement stuff that continues on.
Part of the reason that stuff continues at this point in my career is my authenticity, and because I’m continuing to pursue athletic achievements. So there are a lot of spokes in the wheel.
Taking Laird Superfood Public [00:15:30]
Sam: I remember seeing an interview where you’re talking about going public, ringing the bell, all this paperwork — you were shocked anyone could do it. And things were flying high at first. As of late, the stock has been crushed. What are the emotions going through right now? Do you regret taking it public?
Laird: Right now it’s a tough world for us — but we’re not alone, and that’s kind of nice. If everything was booming and we were having trouble, I might be asking what we’re doing wrong. So there’s some comfort in that.
I wouldn’t change a bit of it. Coming from my background — my relationship with being patient, crashing in wrecks, all the stuff I’ve gone through — I’m hard to phase. My family’s healthy, I’m healthy. I tell Gabby: we’re good now, we’re gonna be good.
Sam: Did you have a significant amount of your net worth tied up in the company?
Laird: The stock value alone was substantial. But that’s counting chickens before they hatch, and that’s not my world. I realize that life is so temporary. You think you can control things, but you really don’t have the control you think you have. The University of Big Wave Riding, the University of the Hard Knocks — you just have a different perspective.
Of course I’d love the stock to be going through the ceiling. But I wouldn’t go back and redo it. The road show — 90 one-hour Zooms over three weeks, all day every day — all that stuff. You just can’t appreciate that experience unless you’ve been through it. A friend of ours, a woman judge from the south, always says to us: “Invest in experiences.” Because if there’s anything you might be able to take with you when you depart this earth, it may be those experiences. You’re not taking the car, the house, the money.
Our new CEO is incredible. And I’ve done some pretty brutal endurance things in my career, and I know when you’re digging deep — that’s where all the building comes from. That’s where the character building and the polishing of the stone happens. I’ve been here before, probably be here again. No problem.
It’s a little like a professional team. You build this beautiful team, have an incredible season, but then you lose in the finals. Then the next season they break the team up. The winning and losing — the difference is nothing. Yeah.
My biggest thing is I need this business to be successful because the stuff is awesome. I need it for my friends, for everybody who loves it. That’s the most important thing — that we continue to supply the people we do and get new people in. Right now everybody’s getting squeezed. This is when the tough guys get going. And our new CEO is a 100-miler — a long-distance runner. He knows how to grind.
Starting Laird Superfood: Capital, Timeline, First Sales [00:24:00]
Sam: I read the story about how you used to make this stuff at home — turmeric and everything. How much capital did you invest to get it store-ready, and how long did that take?
Laird: It was pretty low. Maybe $20,000 to $30,000 at the most. We went online first, which is why it didn’t cost much to start. We made a powdered version of my original recipe.
Sam: You just had scales at home and a little Ziploc bag.
Laird: Exactly. And my friend Paul Hodge, who’s a real startup guy — I’d been working with him on the golf board on another project — he said let’s just go online. That was fortunate.
Sam: Do you remember your first year’s sales?
Laird: I don’t remember exactly. Maybe $500,000 or something? It happened fairly quick. We just marched into probably $100–$150,000 or even a little bit more after about a year, if you count making samples and playing with the recipe and getting packages going online. And then traction happened quickly because good stuff — people put good stuff in their mouths and they tell people.
I was able to tap into a smaller group of friends and following. I think it would have been different if we were starting from scratch with no one to work with. And we got a lot of great response — we had an engaged inner group that would say, try this one, we don’t like that one. That helped us refine things. Customers engaged with us to help us develop the product — that was a big piece of it.
Trend-Spotting and Innovation Philosophy [00:30:00]
Sam: You timed this perfectly. Right now we’re in the thick of a health trend — ice baths, knees over toes — it’s become cool to be healthy. But you’ve been using ghee for 20 years, doing stuff that was considered eccentric 20 years ago and is now almost normal. Were there other ideas you were tinkering with where you thought, this thing I’m doing now is going to become more popular?
Laird: Stand-up paddling. I did that for eight years alone. That thing was the fastest growing sport in the world for a while — it’s everywhere on the planet. Foiling is another. We were the first guys to really stand and ride waves with foils. Now there are foil magazines and ten different disciplines. For people who don’t know, a foil is basically an airplane that rides underwater attached to a board above. America’s Cup boats have all gone that direction.
Most of my stuff has come from sport. You always have some funny ideas that’ll only have three or four customers, you know. XPT is a big one. The pool training system I’ve been working on hasn’t fully gained traction yet, but it’s getting there.
Sam: What about the breathing app? What does that cost?
Laird: There are different pieces of the app at different stages. You can go to xptlife.com. If you want the breathing app, there are different levels of participation. We also do a two-and-a-half-day seminar camp.
What I say about innovation and ideas: it’s just a new application of an old idea. For anyone to have what they think is an original thought at this point in humanity — given that there have been billions of minds over hundreds of thousands of years — how could you have a truly original thought? It’s more about hybrids, combining existing things, maybe some new materials.
My whole thing around Laird Superfood is really based on using plants in whole form and not separating elements out and concentrating them. A lot of that concentrated stuff is based on trying to get a patent and own it. Nature made it perfect for your body — why not use it in those ratios? Whenever we don’t stay as close to nature as we can, there’s always a problem.
Part of the reason for the crazy health trend — it was going that way anyway — but people started to realize after the pandemic that being healthy is really an advantage. We’re in something of a health crisis with diabetes, obesity, all this stuff that’s been happening.
And I have a philosophy about things you do every day. Things you do every day are accumulative. There’s a technique they used to use to kill kings in the old days — you’d just give them a little arsenic every day, and eventually, in a year or two, the king croaks. It was never enough to be obviously poisonous, just an accumulation. I think that’s true with fitness, with diet. If you’re eating a little bit of bad food every day, that’s accumulative. Eating good food every day — that’s also accumulative. You’re going to pay dividends over time if you’re doing some training every day, getting a good night’s sleep every day, eating good food every day. That stuff over time is going to pay.
The Wisdom from the Sweatshop [00:38:00]
Sam: You told the story about the Korean guy you worked for — Mr. Chun.
Laird: Yes. He was making Guess and Creeline jackets — made out of old Levi jeans, stone washed in big tumbling washers with pumice stone. And I’d sit at the end trying to pick wisdom out of this guy. One day he was drinking a Miller — he always drank Millers, which is the worst beer ever —
Sam: That was my drink. Miller Light.
Laird: — and he said, “Oh yeah, when good times here, don’t be too happy, because after good time, bad time comes. But when bad times here, don’t be too sad, because after bad time, good time come again.”
I’m like, there’s some wisdom there. Technically you’d be numb if you didn’t react to things. But there is wisdom in it — when bad times are here, don’t be too sad, because good time come. And don’t be too happy in the good times either. There’s something to be said about that.
The Malibu House and Community Training [00:41:00]
Sam: I’ve talked to a lot of friends who have come to your place. You’re like Bono — you’re a one-name guy now. They say, “We went to Laird’s and did the pool thing,” and it’s amazing. You’re living many men’s fantasy — this amazing house that’s like a community, people coming and going on your terms. What year did you buy that house, and how much did it cost?
Laird: I don’t remember the exact figure, but it was cheap for Malibu. We’ve been here 25, 26 years. Things were a million dollars 25 years ago that are 25 million now. Was it a big deal for us at the time? Oh yeah.
When I showed Gabby the house, I said, “Don’t look at the price. Look at the house. Think about whether you want the house before the price affects you. Why would it matter what the price is if you couldn’t afford it anyway? First let’s see if you want it.” We came and looked, and she was like, “It’s amazing.” I stood across the street — I didn’t even go in — and I could see the ocean, and I could see the wave that I love to surf. I said, “I love this house.” She goes, “You haven’t even been inside yet.” I said, “I don’t need to go in. If you’re good, I’m good.”
Because I could be in a tent right there looking at the ocean and I’d be happy. It’s all about location. You can always change the house, you can rebuild the house, but you can’t change where it is.
Growing up in Hawaii, where people work all year to save up to come on vacation for one week — and you live there — you realize how fortunate that is. These are places to be cherished.
Sam: I always see videos of athletes coming and going. How many days a week do you actually have people come and do workouts in the pool?
Laird: Gabby does her training in the morning. It depends on the time of year. Normally it’s mostly in the summer — football and basketball off-season guys come. I’m connected with a lot of different athletes, coaches, and physios. Guys get hurt, they’re coming out of injury, and they’ll be sent to see us.
Sam: Are you charging them?
Laird: No. If you charge people, the dynamic changes. We like to have that sign that says, “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.” We don’t have to charge, and that sets up a really nice environment.
I have a young man who’s been living with us and training, learning about training — becoming very versatile because of his exposure. When guys want to get work done, I’ll have him involved. For the general training: most of the time we have some kind of communal training on certain days of the week. Maybe lifting and dry land on Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, and pool stuff on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturdays — depending on who and what we’re doing.
The most important piece of it is this community. We all are looking for a little tribe to belong to. I’d blame a part of the success of CrossFit on that — it had less to do with the workout itself and more to do with the fact that you were part of a tribe, a community of like-minded people training with you. Some days you’re just down and you don’t feel like doing anything, and then somebody’s out there ready to go, and you’re like, okay, let’s go. Vice versa. We kind of lift each other up.
Sam: I was looking at old photos of your pool — Joakim Noah, Grant Hill, a few others. Who has put you in awe of their fitness or athletic ability?
Laird: My problem is I probably have a skewed bar because I’m normally with all these freaks. It’s hard to out-freak the freaks. When you’ve got Chris McCaffrey, Jalen — the level of athlete you have there is extraordinary.
But the people who surprise you are often people you haven’t heard of who come with a certain mindset. Because some of the pool stuff is stressful, you’d think the big super-strong guy handles it fine, but he freaks out. And then some more frail lady just has a mental giant quality and can handle being in the ice and the deep end.
That’s the neutralizing aspect to our environment. You’re always going to have somebody who can out-do you in something and you can out-do them in something else. Our approach is about you finding your own barriers and then trying to lift those up. Don’t use other people as a reference to yourself. That’s where you get in trouble — comparison.
Sam: I’ve always hated that phrase “comparison is the thief of joy.” I get so much joy from proving idiots wrong. I like competing.
Laird: That’s different — comparing and competing. Yeah, competing is different.
Sam: I’m like, this person’s doing $50 million. That dumbass could do that? I definitely could do $70 million. Let’s crush them. And the grudge — people are like, “You’ve got to let go of that grudge.” I’m like, this grudge fuels everything I do.
Laird: But at a certain point — I can relate, a lot of what I’ve done is because of that — you get to this thing and you’re like, okay, then what? At some point you achieve what you were trying to prove, and you’re sitting there going, now what? Do I have to make up a new one? Maybe I can create motivation out of success or contentment rather than frustration.
I’ve gone through being driven and motivated to achieve things because of frustration and proving myself to the world. Then you achieve it and you’re like, okay, now what? If you’re a competitor, you’re a competitor. For me, I’m such a vicious competitor that I can barely actually compete, because when I look at real competition in nature — the real thing, not these contrived versions — you’re like, okay, maybe I better figure out how to constructively vent that stuff.
Does that carry over to business?
Sam: Does it? Are you like, we need this much profit, this much growth?
Laird: Not in that way. Mine is a more patient thing. My favorite term is “victory through attrition.” Be the cockroach. The last guy standing. You can have your little wins — great — but I’m talking about when you’re the only one left on the battlefield and everyone’s laying on the ground. You don’t even have to be that good. You’re just Undisputed.
And the greatest competition is life. That’s the real game. All these other things are games. But the real big game is life — the quality of your life, your relationships, what kind of father you are. That’s the big game. That’s why when I talk about the wheel, I say, yeah, business is one spoke — make sure it’s nice and tight, good. But if you’re all there and you’ve got giant holes in the other spokes, sorry — you’ve lost the game.
Sobriety and Drinking [00:56:00]
Sam: You haven’t always been this wise, right? I think I read that your wife filed for divorce at one point, and you guys thankfully made it work. I know you’ve mentioned wishing you’d told your younger self to quit drinking earlier. Were you kind of wild? Any surfer who goes out hard and does everything hard — I’m sure you applied that same energy to some vices.
Laird: Let’s be clear — work in progress then, work in progress now. My thing about drinking — I love wine. I had two French habits because I worked with a French company for 20 years: espresso and Pinot Noir. And like everything I do, I have a tendency to do things in excess. If one’s good, two is better.
I would have never gotten together with Gabby if I didn’t have a certain calculation, certain morality, certain values. There are things I’ve had my whole life since I was young — it wasn’t like I acquired them. The drinking was just a loose spoke. Hey, you know what, this drinking thing’s an issue because I don’t have real power over it. I want to prove to myself I do.
I come from a long line of alcoholics — but we all do. I always say, being an alcoholic is like being a surfer. There’s no human who doesn’t actually like alcohol. It’s just whether you stop.
Sam: I’m 10 years sober too. Yeah, I loved it.
Laird: I’ve got 15. But my thing was — my mom said to me once when I was a kid, “If you can’t be true to yourself, you can’t be true to anyone else.” So I thought, let me see if I say I can stop drinking anytime, and then the next day I drink. Well, then I really don’t have power over it. So now I want to have some power over it. That was a discipline thing.
And all the dumbest things I’ve ever done — some alcohol was somehow involved. It says right on the bottle: “Impairs your motor skills.” So let’s not forget that.
The rocky times in the relationship, the drinking thing — all those different things refined and motivated change. There are things I’m still working on and probably will always be working on. That’s a continuation of trying to get better. And which means you’re saying, hey, there are things I think I could do better. What do they say about sin? “Let he without sin cast the first stone” — no one seems to be able to throw one. It’s about being honest with yourself and saying, okay, what is it? Let’s work on that one. Let’s work on this one. And then as you go — you get success at it.
I used to use the guilt from drinking to motivate training. I’d use that guilt and try to prove myself — let me show you what a man I am. But the guilt as fuel thing — that’s its own issue.
Brian Johnson / Blueprint and Longevity Extremes [01:06:00]
Sam: You’re going down this longevity and healthy living path that I love. But I love freak shows — people who are oddballs. We had Brian Johnson on here, from Blueprint. Total freak show when it comes to longevity. You can always learn cool things when people are doing extremes. He’s blending all his food, right?
Laird: I think Gabby did a podcast on him. She went to his house, ate some of his goulash — his blended stuff.
Sam: Let me give you the clip notes. He’s probably close to a billionaire from a company he sold. He’s like, “I want to become the most tested person on planet Earth.” He’s trying to decrease his biological age faster than his chronological age. He does massive amounts of tests weekly, spending millions of dollars, blogs and documents it all on Blueprint. He eats the same three things every day, measures calories to the thousandth of a gram. The workout has to be exact. I love that weirdos like that exist because we’re going to learn some cool stuff from him.
Laird: Here’s my thing — when you chew food, you create saliva, enzymes in your mouth that go down with the food to help digest it. And one of the ways to become allergic to something is to eat that thing alone every day. But that gets into a whole other thing.
For me, I feel like you can’t hack your way around biology. You can use hacking to support work, but you can’t replace it. In diet, one of the most important things is diversity. You get bombarded by things that aren’t good for you through that process sometimes, but the diversity piece matters.
It would be interesting to see what it does long-term. I’ll be interested to see what happens. I appreciate that he’s going through it. But I look at it more as entertainment — I love it for what it shows us.
Wrestling, Freak Shows, and Human Entertainment [01:14:00]
Sam: Do you watch fighting? MMA?
Laird: I don’t watch a lot of it. I know a bunch of guys who do it, but yeah.
Sam: What about wrestling — WWE?
Laird: Oh yeah, I’ll go with a friend of mine who’s really into it. He brought me and I go with him. I live vicariously through him — I’m amazed how intuitive he is, how much he knows about it.
Sam: It’s a grilling man soap opera, basically. It goes to our deepest stuff.
Laird: It serves a purpose. It goes right to that primal guy in his underwear — fighting and arguing. Humans are entertaining. People from outside think the audience thinks it’s all real. They don’t realize that everybody in the audience knows exactly what’s going on and they’re just participating in the whole show. That’s all the fun.
Running the Businesses Day-to-Day [01:18:00]
Sam: I have this image in my head of what you are. Running your businesses — I’m like, is he totally out of the picture on a day-to-day basis, just talks to the CEO once a month? When we got on here, your wife helped set up the camera. Are you even using a computer or phone daily? Are you totally detached?
Laird: I use a phone. I’m not a social media guy — I spend very little time on it. For me the phone is communication, weather, news. And when I say news, I mean more investigative stuff. If I’m interested in a political thing, I like to actually understand what the real stuff is rather than just taking advice from people telling me about it.
As for the businesses — I talk to Jason all the time, I talk to the lady running Laird Apparel, yeah. I’m in communication with those brands because it’s got my name on it. It has to do with my brand. Multiple times a week if not every day I’m communicating — discussing promotional stuff, product development, whatever.
Personal Finance Philosophy [01:22:00]
Sam: I sold my company when I was 30 and got some real financial security. I look at the type of life you live — I split time between Austin and New York, I’ve got a handful of projects, a company with a CEO that runs it — somewhat similar to what you’re doing. How do you map out your personal finances? You have a farm project, three to five different businesses, real estate. Is there one revenue stream where you’re like, that’s what we live off of, and everything else I reinvest or put in index funds? How do you balance all of it?
Laird: I have smarter people than me for that. I have a woman I’ve worked with for a very long time who does financial management — accounting, all of that — because that’s her thing and she’s good at it. That’s a big piece of it.
For me personally, that whole area can be such a consuming hole — you can get swallowed into it and lose your connection with everything. Part of it has to do with how you look at it. What kind of faith do you have? What kind of belief do you have that everything’s going well or not? How much control do you think you have? That’s a piece of my philosophy.
Sam: So you don’t stress out a significant amount about finances? Earlier you said when you bought that house, you were like, that’s a lot of money but we’re doing it anyway, we’ll figure it out.
Laird: Yeah, that’s kind of how I live. I think for a lot of people they just can’t operate like that. But for me it just feels more natural.
I’ve had the fortune to be exposed to a lot of wealthy people in my life — crazy wealth — and I’ve seen people with nothing who got everything, and people with everything who lost everything. There’s a level of imprisonment that happens when you are so controlled by it. Like it says — “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy.” You can’t oh-so-simply be free from that stuff, and I think it’s harder for a lot of people. But having that belief — it’s like visualization. If you think it’s not real, you’re mistaken. Your belief in something is definitely supportive of it happening. In both ways — you can make things be, and you can attract what you fear.
Gabby says: if you have an “ouch,” God will give you a hurt. If you walk around going “ouch, ouch, ouch,” you’ll be surprised if stuff isn’t just hitting you all the time. And vice versa — “O ye of little faith, I provide for the birds, do you think I’ll not provide for you?” There’s something real in that. That’s real stuff. They didn’t just make that up out of the sky.
Doesn’t mean be stupid, doesn’t mean ignore reality. But there is something about that mindset that keeps you from being caged. Because finances — that’s a caging area. When I was broke and then not broke, I was like, oh, I’ve just created a little prison. You stress about running out.
Sam: We’re scarcity creatures. It’s built in.
Laird: My mom had another good saying: “The way God punishes you is he gives you what you ask for.” So be careful what you ask for. You want that big house — yeah — and then with that house comes all the stuff that breaks, all the maintenance, all of it. That can be overwhelming.
The big hitters aren’t bogged down by all that little stuff. They’re looking at a bigger picture. But that being said, there’s something about being prudent and having the right people around you. You can’t do everything. You’re only as good as the company you keep.
Savagery, Goals, and Hunting [01:37:00]
Sam: I know Rob Dyrdek — you and Rob have nailed it where business is great, personal life is great, fitness nailed it, self-awareness nailed it.
Last question. On your YouTube at the end of 2022, Gabby asked your goals for 2023 and you said, “This year I want to be more of a savage. I want to get dirty, do something savage.” What’s an example of something savage you’ve done so far, and over the next six to eighteen months, are there any particular experiences or goals you’re working toward that would check that box?
Laird: For me — I’ve always wanted to kill an animal. I wanted to go kill a deer or some type of animal. I have cows on my ranch, and I was like, I want to slaughter one with my hands and eat it.
Sam: Yeah, I’ve dealt with that. I grew up on a farm.
Laird: So that’s not too savage. But I go for moose. Probably in September I’ll go get a moose and fill the freezers for the winter. I hunted boar when I was a kid.
For me, the savage stuff comes more from the ocean. The conditions. I had one trip to Peru this summer. And listen — we had that giant Malibu fire. I fought for my house four or five hours with a suit and a pump. And then I had a flood in Hawaii after that, and I was out at night with boats, rescuing people off the tops of their roofs.
I have to be careful what I ask for, because before both of those things I said, “I just need some action.” And back to what my mom said — be careful what you ask for. You have to clarify. Easy to make a blanket statement. When I was young I wanted to be surrounded by women — now I have three daughters. I should have been a little clearer in my definition.
Books and Reading [01:44:00]
Sam: Do you read a lot of books?
Laird: I listen to a lot of books, and I read some. I listen to a lot.
Sam: What are the best two you’ve listened to in the last 12 to 18 months?
Laird: I liked Life After Life by Moody. And there’s a heavy one called Embrace Fearlessly the Burning World by Barry Lopez — pretty radical. I went full conspiracy — a book called The Trap. And then The Psychology of Totalitarianism was pretty heavy. I have a good one on water right now. I go all over the place.
Sam: I read mostly history — basically only historical stuff. Let me give you three I think you’ll dig.
The first two are ship books, 1800s. The first is called The Wager — these crazy guys sail an 1800s ship from England all the way down around Argentina and Cape Horn, get stranded, and it takes them two years to get back. You’ll dig that one.
The second is In the Heart of the Sea. If you’ve ever read Moby Dick, you know about the whale that sinks the ship — there’s actually a true story behind it. Nantucket was originally Quaker territory, and the whale men were absolute animals. Imagine sailing with no electricity, no way to communicate with anyone, for two years, all the way to the Pacific. Their ship was hit in the middle of the Pacific and the book is about how they got back to South America.
And the third — I wanted to give you three books about being a savage — is Undaunted Courage, about Lewis and Clark. They were honorable, but they were also bad to the bone. They weren’t killing anybody, they were just making maps, meeting Natives in peace. But they took two years and four months to go from St. Louis to the Pacific and back.
Laird: Those guys are something. I’ve been up in Washington where their trail was.
Sam: Hardcore. And then I just finished a story about John Wilkes Booth and the twelve-day manhunt to find him after he killed Lincoln. I read a ton of that stuff.
Laird: There was a great ocean racing one — it’s about the race from Hobart, like the race from New Zealand. A crazy storm, the boats, the guys get — it’s intense.
Sam: Yeah, those stories. I work on my computer throughout the day, and the hardest points in my life are when I go boxing or have a hard workout. I need some pain in my life to realize — yeah — to turn down the volume of my daily life, because my daily life is soft. And I need to read about something hard because I can’t always go experience hard things.
Laird: At sea is a real thing. Especially those guys — you fall off the boat, you die. And half of them couldn’t even swim.
Sam: Which is crazy.
Laird: They’d live on a ship for 20 years and didn’t know how to swim. And if you fell off a ship in the ocean, those sailing ships can’t turn around. They just left you. You’re done.
Sam: Hard core.
Laird: We live in a pretty soft time. Pretty soft.
Sam: I’m thankful for it in some capacity. Oh yeah. No doubt. But that’s why I think young men like you — they see you risking your life on a wave, and they think, all right, I’m not willing to risk my life on a wave, but I’ll go to a pool and move weights at the bottom, because at least that’s a little bit of hard.
Laird: The stress is good. We’re designed for it — that kind of constructive stress where you control the environment. Because the other kind, where you’re being subjected to it without participation — a giant wave can decide not to let you up. At least in the pool you can always let go of the weights and swim to the surface. But we have to induce it now. Almost forced.
It’s like we’re having to make up for what we used to get naturally. We don’t get enough sun, so we supplement vitamin D. We’re having to compensate for the fact that we’re not getting a lot of what we need biologically. That’s why the heat and ice is great, the breath work is great, the pool stuff is great — it stresses the system. The system really needs stress to work correctly. Not stress like “I owe taxes” or “I’m stuck in traffic.” Something more purely physical.
Sam: I remember looking at buying a treadmill for my desk, and I just — what am I doing? I smacked myself. I’m like, this is literally a hamster wheel. I’m not buying a treadmill for a desk.
Laird: Yeah, but we’re almost forced into it. I was in Europe and all they do is walk. We don’t walk nearly as much because we don’t live in those environments. In New York you can force yourself to walk. But in Europe they just do it a lot. And you realize how well our system does with walking. We’re Walkers — that’s one of our big evolutions, coming up off all fours and walking. Our metabolism and everything functions better when we walk.
Sam: I almost bought one and went through an existential crisis. I’m like — just force yourself to go for a walk in the park. Make time.
Closing [01:57:00]
Sam: I really admire you. I admire the family you’ve built, the life you’ve built. Excited we were able to do this.
Laird: Sam, I really appreciate your time and the admiration. And it seems like you’re already there. That’s what counts.
Sam: I read history because I like to see the mistakes as well as the wins people have made. That’s one of the reasons I like following you — what wins did he make, what mistakes did he make, how can I point in the right direction? You’ve paved the path for me and a bunch of other people. I appreciate that.
Laird: I think that’s one of the things that makes humans unique — we can learn from other people. How to and how not to. The best is to learn from other people’s mistakes. But we have a tendency to need to make them ourselves sometimes. That’s part of being human. All right, I appreciate you man. Thanks for coming.