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Kind: captions Language: en there’s TV show got canceled but but Discovery gives them a whole network discovery’s like yo we’re going to make the Magnolia Network all around you guys and you guys are going to create like hundreds of hours of like TV that’s Fixer-Upper content cooking content gardening content like all the like house [ ] right and now they’ve built this Empire the the kind of the bottom line of the the headline of the story is this couple in a in a span of about 10 years has built a billion dollar brand around themselves so it’s that big it’s that big [Music] laughs all right I hope they keep in what just happened so before we hit record it’s like five four three two one and Sam on three takes out a drink out of nowhere at three seconds left and just chugs it like tilts up not only just tilt it up squeezes the bottle like it’s a it’s a Kool-Aid or like a Capri Sun or something and these trucks some carbonated drink and then it goes to one and then he puts up the one symbol like hold on look to the side burps flexes re-centers himself and is ready for the bypass that was Elite that was an elite preps for a podcast dude I’m on top of it I drank so many beverages in uh we had this Fast Company article written about uh the Hampton lunch and the reporter in like the first paragraph called about how I left the interview to grab a root beer and I came back yeah he skimmed the foam off the root beer like it was a Guinness and then finished it held up the one second sign to my lips tell me to shush as he uh as he drained during the interview you know how men drink like ipas that crap and then they look at the class after they take a drink and try to analyze it that’s basically what I do with my Coke Zero dude you should you gotta have more weird quirks because like you can’t really be a billionaire founder if you’re not super weird so you know you got to start picking up some things like you know oh he only wears you know uh open-toed sandals with socks and like you know he wears uh shorts with you know EMF protection on his pockets because he’s worried about radiation and what are the other weird things that you can do well I had a I had carbonated water on tap for a while that was pretty awesome uh like I I like only drink carbonated water no normal water oh do you have sleeps during full moons do you have uh you don’t have any eccentricities do you no that’s why I’m broke dude I need I need some of these before you know otherwise uh how could I be how can I be the weird Rich billionaire I’m trying to be we have uh Sean and I have these friends I won’t name who they are but they’re they’re young guys and the minute that they got like a mild amount of success like maybe 500 000 in Revenue they clearly had read like naval’s book on like charging by time or something like that and then they sent all of their clients to client services business saying we don’t do meetings anymore and uh that they were leading into that eccentricity thing and I wanted to tell them you guys are doing great but you’re not there yet and that’s the biggest customer dropped them immediately yeah it was like oh yeah well we kind of needed to meet to talk about the I get okay well I guess we’ll just find another vendor yeah I want to tell him like it’s great I love the attitude you know showed up to meetings with the shirt off and it was just like well that’s cool it’s one way it’s one way to wear your shirt that that that’s not the way that that particular client was willing to do it so it’s no longer their client but that is our way yeah that is definitely they do have a nipple policy unfortunately yeah they’re not on board with the free the nip campaign unfortunately yeah oh we forgot to shout out we’re doing a live pod April 29th that’s a Saturday if you live in Austin or if you want to fly in Sean and I along with MFM guest Andrew Wilkinson are doing a live pod so if you go to mfmpod.com you’ll see the details and you’ll see tickets uh we’re gonna do a lot pod we did this in Vancouver a couple months ago it’s sold out this one’s gonna sell out as well so if you’re interested in hanging out with Sean me Andrew Wilkinson as well as five 600 other guests and fans of MFM we’re gonna be there so check it out mfmpod.com and you’ll see the the banner up top where you can check out tickets um dude we have a bunch of stuff you have chip and Joanna Gaines on there today and I went to Waco this weekend where they are from oh no way and like saw some of their houses yeah that’s crazy okay so you might know more about this than I do okay so let me tee it up and then you tell me what you know about these people so here’s my my trail of events and uh I’ll put the disclaimer out there right now if you actually know about them that this is gonna all sound very Elementary this is gonna sound very very beginner because I was a complete beginner about like who are these people for their listener though Sean doesn’t know like I I told him what Coldplay was last week like he didn’t know he thought that was like baseball in the winter time he didn’t know anything about like pop culture so this is you learning out loud yeah exactly like uh I still use a flip phone so I I would I left my house I go to Target and inside Target there’s this one section that my wife always goes into and it’s the only section in Target that looks like this where there’s a giant picture of this happy white couple and it’s their names like it’s like oh here’s aisle one two three four five chip and Joanna Gaines six seven eight nine say why do they have their own section so I noticed that first and I thought hmm that’s interesting are these YouTubers what what is the who are these people is this the owner of Target what is this and so I noticed that and filed that away then I was talking to aldone who came on the Pod uh or we talked about it on the Pod who runs Missouri Star Quilt Company the big Quilt Company a huge quilt company and he did this thing where he started buying up a section of a town he basically bought a town and started to build it out he wanted to make it like you know quilt heaven so basically a mecca for where Quilters would go as like a as a pilgrimage to go and just like really indulge in their Hobby and he told me world for grandmas Disney World for yeah for your auntie so so he was like all right well he goes I go does anybody else do this and he goes well there’s there’s chip and Joanna Gaines thing in Waco and I go there they are again who are these people and you know fool me once shame on me and film me twice shame on me finally I’ll look you up and I looked him up and they got an incredible story it sounds like you’re pretty familiar with them but um he had told me one thing that kind of like caught my attention he goes it’s it shocks me by the way you don’t know about these people I mean like in the Midwest and amongst like moms like you’re so California that you don’t know about this they’ve been in the game for like 10 years uh but I don’t know too much about them yeah it’s you know it’s it’s quaint but um I I I I looked him up they the YouTube videos are amazing by the way if you if you’ve watched YouTube videos so they own a part of town in Waco that they’ve just branded as their own they bought these two abandoned I think silos like grain silos and so they called it like whatever siloville or whatever and they have The Silo abrasion at the end of the year where it’s just like this is a huge party for themselves so their brand Magnolia is the like everywhere in this little area so they have the Magnolia Market where you go buy your stuff and then they have their Magnolia Table Restaurant which is served by the vegetables from Joanna’s garden and then there’s the Magnolia other thing and then there’s a magnolia other thing and it’s just all them and they get about 2 million visitors a year just coming and making the pilgrimage to Waco Texas which is really the middle of nowhere for Texas I lived in Texas and I never went to Waco like it was not even in my top 10 places to go in Texas and so they have made Waco a destination they literally have raised the housing prices in that area by like 24 because they have made it an attraction and their story is kind of interesting I don’t know if you know their their backstory do you know do you know pretty well I don’t so they uh the story goes something like this and again I’m a beginner so I’m doing the thing where you read the press release and you’re like oh that’s how they met how how fortunate or you know like when you hear about somebody saying like how’d you think of the idea it’s like well I saw a single mother struggling and I just decided that that would be my mission it’s like no dude you read a report that said this Market was growing and that’s why you you know you started this business but like here’s the pr version of their story uh they live in Waco Texas chip the guy goes into this uh car repair shop that her dad owns sees a picture of her on the wall and decides I’m gonna marry that girl suspicious but okay uh keeps going back to the car repair shop yes that that story it could it could go a different route it just totally it’s like uh it’s like when you whispered someone’s ear like I see you versus like write it on their mirror when they’re in the shower you know what I mean like it text matters here the editing of the story really makes it a makes it okay but it could go either way it doesn’t end up in a freezer um so yeah so he keeps going back and he eventually bumps into her ask her out on a date they go on a date uh whatever they end up getting together this is back in like 2003-ish and so he was doing house flipping and she was kind of like I guess like working with the doing like commercials for her dad’s car car repair place or whatever and they get together and they decide um they they don’t have anything to their name but they decide to try to try to make something of this house flipping thing she’s like oh I could use my design sense you’re a contractor and let’s uh so they move into this like 800 square foot house and they renovate it while they live there end up flipping one flipping two flipping through they start to you know successfully flip some houses and Waco but still no big deal is that a TV show from HGTV starts casting and they read about the this husband and wife house flipper in uh in Waco Texas they said well wake up we’re kind of hoping for somebody in L.A or New York or maybe Atlanta or something like that but like okay whatever let’s go down to Waco and meet him and uh and he’s got this like kind of big personality he’s real outgoing and she’s really good looking and so it like plays well for TV so they get their show on HGTV called Fixer-Upper and basically the show like from day one is a hit and so they go from kind of husband and wife Small Time house flippers like very small houses that they’re flipping in Waco to now on TV um and they they’re doing this and they do five or six seasons they become very famous on on HGTV show gets canceled but what they did was they had built this uh this following and they had built they had this brand in mind that they’re called Magnolia like they had opened up a retail store back in the day they closed it because it wasn’t really going so well but they had this idea for this store called Magnolia so when the show ends they do two things they reopen Magnolia as a beautiful place in Waco and then secondly they go to the the just the Channel Discovery Channel and they go and their TV show got canceled but but Discovery gives them a whole network discovery’s like yo we’re gonna make the Magnolia Network all around you guys and you guys are going to create like hundreds of hours of like TV that’s line of the whole the the headline of the story is this couple in a span of about 10 years has built a billion dollar brand around themselves so it’s that big it’s that big so there’s no real numbers that like have come out so like if you go look for their net worth or their revenue super Hush Hush which you know just makes those little hairs on my arms start to tingle a little bit I know I know when it’s that Hush Hush that that means it’s a lot bigger than you think especially because you see it like Target partnered with them to develop that line of goods in their store so like when Target it’s not even like they got their brand into Target it’s like Target came to them it’s like let’s make a brand that’s like a big deal they have pillars move in silence Killers move in silence and you hear yeah so if you don’t hear about it if you don’t hear about it in TechCrunch you know it’s doing good I thought you were gonna hit him with a G’s and lasagna type of line type of no no not well you know I I think I’ve uh I’ve milked that one dry dude it’s like my mom when she was on the phone with like a customer service person and here you’re like a as an apple b as in Bob whatever she goes K is a knife I just lost it I was like I don’t think you understand how that works yeah it’s like it’s hilarious okay so they they operate like K is a knife um I grew up on this street called Simpson and I would be like uh I’d be like you know my address is this is this Simpson like O.J Simpson and uh it works um anyways their their app that has their TV show network has like tens of thousands of reviews on it so that means that that app is doing pretty well and that’s a paid that’s like their own version of Netflix right like that’s like kind of stunning you never really see an influencer that has their own whole subscription Network and so they have the cookbooks journals retail stores brand uh paint brand uh furniture brand uh they have their TV show Network they got everything and this idea and they have their own town which gets two million visitors a year like if your website gets two million visitors a year they’re doing pretty okay you’re right you’re you’re out there let alone two million people making the pilgrimage to your small town in Waco to come buy [ ] from your stores that’s kind of impressive I guarantee you that these people will end up billionaires off of this Magnolia brand this Magnolia brand has to be worth High hundreds of millions if not over a billion dollars already have you been to Waco ever no dude so I went to Waco this weekend because and I’ll tell a quick story then we’ll get back to this but basically uh last year I I randomly came across this guy who had this new Airbnb it was basically a piece of land that he built a lake on and he puts and he built seven airbnbs I was so curious I couldn’t find them on social media I call them up yeah he built a lake like it was like uh like a plot of land and they built not a huge like more more a pond is a better is a better way to describe it but but it’s it’s a lake I guess but I call them up and I go tell me your story goes well I had a part I was an accountant I had my own small business for accounting I just built this Airbnb thing I think it’s going to be really successful but I really described myself as an artist I love to paint and play music and right right away I’m like I’m in do you want to hang out start hanging out with them he’s part of this thing I mentioned it called Homestead Heritage it’s this religion slash Community they it’s like all different parts of Christianity in it and they believe in like sustainability and and the weird part is they believe in craftsmanship so the way that they like find God Is by like doing things with their hand and doing doing it well so anyway this weekend I went and celebrated Easter at his church and like they like had a whole same thing around for a long time or did this it was like a recently created religion okay basically the story is is that one of the the main guy which is his wife’s grandpa I believe uh her the wife’s Isaac’s uh wife’s grandfather lived in New York was atheists found God somehow and felt like the best way to like show that I love God is to like just be excellent to everything I do and be kind to people among other things but that was basically it for some reason they moved to Waco they get 500 acres and they build a whole community on there and then this guy Isaac now has built this Airbnb a few miles away and he tweeted out his profits in his first year business he did a million in profit and so I went and I became friends with them and I went and hung out there and I drove through all all through Waco and basically in Waco Waco’s sorry Waco people it’s not nice uh it’s not it’s not it’s it’s like objectively like a fairly run down place as if maybe it was like an oil Town it feels like there was once something there and then now it’s not and when you drive through that area you see like not nice house not nice house nice house and I told him that and he goes oh yeah that’s the chip in Joanna’s house like they like started here remodeling homes and you could distinctly tell which one is their brand and it’s and and so like it’s like basically like Isaac French who like brings in all these people and Chip and Joanne like you know way above him but that’s like my understanding of Waco at the moment yeah there’s these like uh these these like kind of Simplicity based um communities or religions or or uh cultures where it’s like like I’m on their homepage right now it says Homestay Heritage is an agrarian craft-based intentional Christian Community it stresses Simplicity sustainability self-sufficiency service and quality craftsmanship and then there’s literally like a video of a cow eating leaves and then like a boy stitching a baseball himself yeah I say I never did well I was like uh Isaac showed me around he goes here let me show you the orchard I planted last week you know and it’s like it has 200 apple trees he’s like we did this for the community anyone could come take an apple it’ll be ready in like five years and that’s what he does instead of watching TV so if I like I’ll be like hey have you seen this movie he’s like no I don’t really watch movies and I’m planting trees not a whole lot of my first million podcast listeners out there probably there were a few I think there was a few but you know they’re more fans of like Johnny Appleseed than Sean Perry yeah you know what I mean like uh they’re they’re done like Johnny apples like posters in their room yeah but uh and dude when I so I’ve sold the story many times I used to work for Mike Wolf from American Pickers and that was where I first learned about like entertainment and business and things like that but Mike Wolf was American Pickers at the time was like the second most popular show on TV when I worked there number one was Pawn Stars and like number four was David Letterman like to give you an idea and and we I know for real that’s the that was the real rankings and then I would be at the store and some days we would sell thirty thousand dollars of t-shirts at the store and these like were not nice T-shirts they were just normal like with the logo on it we would sell like 10 grand worth of mugs and so like these shows kill it and what Mike did was he would film himself basically the show was he would drive to Barnes find old stuff tell you the history about it buy it and then sell it and he would uh he spent like four years driving around with a video camera filming this trying to pitch it and then when he finally did Pitch it he got the production rights or I guess he kind of like what Rob Dyrdek did I think that’s where the money is and it sounds like that’s what Magnolia did too yeah exactly the the I mean the the breadth of this Empire is is kind of stunning to me right it’s like uh whether it’s Home Goods it’s a restaurant it’s coffee books it’s the it’s the uh the bakery it’s the TV Show Network it’s the target line it’s like and and their brand is like they’re this relatable you know Blue Collar you know salt of the earth people it’s like yeah like they are but they also have some part of them that’s Rupert Murdoch and they’re right they are flexing that Rupert Murdoch over the last you know 10 years I wonder if they have like a manager or if they’re just doing this all in themselves like Rupert Murdoch in Wrangler jeans you know like it’s we’re relatable but we’ll gut your heart out if we had to right if succession was in denim yeah uh no I dig these I dig these people the worst thing that would happen to them is a Johnny K plus eight remember Johnny K plus eight of course how can I forget man they were they were some of the first guys to get popular like in the reality TV world of TLC and then they get divorced and it ends horribly just like Honey Boo Boo man Honey Boo Boo same thing it always ends horribly so hopefully it doesn’t end that way I remember like seeing if your shtick is just how many kids you can that is not gonna have a sustainable it’s like sometimes you see these YouTubers and they come out real hot because it’s like I’m buried alive with tarantulas 10 million clicks you’re like yo but where to from here son where are you gonna go with this like this is not a sustainable path for you yeah I uh but I like these people I mean they seem like pretty like I don’t know wholesome but we’ll see how how money impacts things well you have Oprah on here and I think that chip and Joanna gained uh and other people like them like brene brown they’re kind of filling this Oprah Gap like Oprah left some big shoes to fill I feel um and I’ve been Amazed by by the do you know do you follow brene Brown very much yeah my wife is reading all her stuff and like she’s kind of killing it amongst like the empathy crowd the vulnerability crowd yeah yeah we’re against those offense who are all about authenticity yeah the capital E uh or like if I hear one one more person say the n-word Nuance like that’s like that that’s the thing man it’s Nuance it’s empathy with that joke I was like Sam don’t end it here man we’ve had a good run but don’t end it here nuance uh Have You Seen Her Netflix special no no I I like her but that’s not my speed it’s a it’s a gotta watch um it’s that good it’s that good so go watch her first Netflix special it’s some you gotta watch it just because you’ve never seen anything like it it’s basically Tony Robbins Oprah and a stand-up comedian at the same time like she comes out on stage like a stand-up comedian and she’s funny without telling too many like jokes like it’s not like set up punchline but she’s funny but then she starts talking about vulnerability and herself and then people in the crowd are crying and you’re just like what is hap what kind of event is this you’re it’s like you know twister with my emotions like I don’t know what’s going on I got right leg I’m sad and I got you know left hand on empowered I didn’t know what was happening it’s kind of an incredible little live show that she’s created and I could at first I was like why would Netflix give a special to this person I don’t even understand what that could be but it’s actually pretty pretty well done for what it is and I could see why she’s so likable why she is so like uh relatable to people you quickly went from like wow to wow [Laughter] uh no I’ll I’ll watch her do uh do you want can I tell you a little about Oprah so we we we’re gonna talk about Oprah last time we didn’t really know what we were talking about so I dug in a little bit I guess the the theme of this episode then is uh you know one of the TV Empires or female TV Empire or something like that I don’t know let’s get let’s let’s see uh TV Empires that everyone knows about that you and I are just discovering 20 years after the fact Empire’s with empathy that the boys discover seven years after they they were off air capitalized both those E’s uh all right I’ll tell you a little bit about Oprah so she started at 17 by uh doing beauty pageants she won Miss Black Tennessee at age 19. she had her first job at CBS station in uh Nashville a few years later she moved to Maryland and uh then back to Nashville and eventually she was the first African-American news anchor uh on TV and that was in Nashville she basically had an issue where she struggled to show objectivity because she couldn’t really report the news because she was showing too much empathy and she was pretty casual and at the time like this was like Hey Oprah you gotta like you know keep it straight you can’t like Express remorse or like show too many too much emotions like well Let’s uh let’s take this a different way so she created a show called people are talking and that aired originally in 1977 and she would improvise and she was casual kind of like you and I at one point could say yeah she was like the MFM of the 70s um and by the end of the decade so after like three or four years she was beating Phil Donahue in the local ratings and Phil Donahue was God uh so he was like The Man In Charge So eventually she keeps doing that for a little while longer but in 1986 so about 10 years after starting that she gets her own show it’s called the Oprah Winfrey Show and she along with a couple outside investors established her own production company called Harpo Productions Harpo’s Oprah spelled backwards and at 32 years old she became the first black woman to have a nationally syndicated show and she still owns 80 of that production company and all along the the way she started like innovating innovating so in 1996 she created the uh her uh her book club which made 130 million in sales in the year one and arguably set the groundwork for this like massive influencer industry that we have then in 98 she co-founded the oxygen uh Media Group which has programming towards all types of uh shows mostly towards women she launched Oprah Magazine she had a radio show uh in 2010 the Oprah show ended after 24 years and she had you know all the best guests leading up till then 2011 she launched uh OWN Oprah Winfrey Network and then all along has been doing all types of stuff so for example in 2015 she bought 10 stake in Weight Watchers and then the stock 6X like within a year or two of that happening in 2008 she sold most of her uh stake to of own to Discovery and she’s done a ton of interesting stuff between now and then but he listened to her Empire so she has the Oprah Winfrey Show which had over 20 20 8 000 guests giving away 570 cars had five presidents on um she got 20 000 fan letters the finale had 16.4 million views she also owns Harpo still to this day they’ve uh collectively it’s done two billion dollars in profits and made a couple movies as well including the color purple beloved and Selma they have 200 employees in Chicago the uh own so the her network Oprah Winfrey Network uh it started with a hundred million dollars in funding eventually she sold most of the stake but she’s still CEO of that she has Oprah Magazine which in the first year did 140 million in Revenue just from subscriptions and then she has Oprah and friends which is a uh uh XM radio contract uh or or show where she got 55 million dollars in the first three years she’s invested in Weight Watchers True Food kitchens which is basically a restaurant that has 42 locations she uh helps start a food science startup backed by Oprah Katy Perry and a few others that has a billion dollar in valuation and she also is a big investor in Oatley then and this is finally she has a 45 million dollar estate in California a 14 million dollar one in Washington in Colorado she has 60 Acres for 14 million in Hawaii she has over a thousand acres and she has uh basically her net worth Grew From at age 32 she got her first million at 41 340 million 97 at the age of 43 550 million and at the age of 48 she became a billionaire so that’s Oprah’s story um super fascinating I mean she’s been in the game forever it seems and I think she’s what 60 something now and still killing it I didn’t realize she was the CEO and like active and all this I thought she was more so like a face but I think she’s actually not you know not just a face but uh it seems like she’s like actually like a like a mogul a tycoon right you know what’s uh one thing that stands out when we talk about these is that there is this like flywheel that happens once you become a certain level of famous it’s almost like uh you know that that graph that’s like going viral the [ ] around and find out graph is basically like [ ] around to find out but the positive version so you could kind of like if Oprah was like here’s Oprah’s maple syrup here’s Oprah’s um you know like new line of spoons here’s Oprah’s uh you know new board game like what does it really matter at this point it’d be like her board game does 50 million in sales her syrup is the number one syrup in the country right now like it’s kind of at that point you just choose and because so much trust and distribution has been built up and I have a friend who this week I can’t say the details but they went to a very famous person they went to a very famous person and they said they had a business idea they said hey uh our friend has a has a background in a certain industry and said hey famous person you should be doing something in that industry let me walk to you show up at your door knock at your door and say here’s a full business plan of exactly how you would dominate in this category so they go they fly out knock on the door um first they don’t meet the famous person famous person sends a a manager to them Senza by the way are they are they like A-list famous they’re super famous yes super super famous got it okay A-list famous and so they go to them and first they get hit with a manager and they say they’re trying to like look over the manager’s head be like hey is a famous I just wanted to talk to just hoping to get a word in with the famous person can you get out of the way and they’re like no no you have to get through this wall first they talk to the manager first they say hey look here’s my background I’ve been super successful in this industry I think you guys could crush it in this industry um why don’t can I meet the famous person now and tell them the idea they said no no tell me the idea I’m in charge of this I said okay here’s the idea and then the person says manager says that’s a good idea okay cool and um then they get the meeting with the the famous and the pull time they were told hey uh you fly in on Monday you’ll meet with the famous person sometime this week just hang out in the hotel just be here which is a pretty big time move to try to pull on somebody to not give you a time but say hey we’ll we’ll hold this walkie-talkie would you hear me put your pants on get ready for the meetings happening but I I can’t tell you everything like they’ve got a special calendar and Google it everything ends in ish but it’s you know monday-ish you know like it’s all ish right you’re giving a window and you better be prepared it during that window to strike okay so end up getting the meeting with the with the famous person famous person comes in explain the whole idea famous person uh likes the idea but also has a bunch of their own ideas of course as famous people do and so I asked my friend later I said uh so what happened and uh the response was this they go well I’m pretty sure we convinced famous person that they should do this and do this with us and I’m pretty sure they convinced me that I should not do this with them I thought that was the hilarious takeaway and I was like okay well why they said well you know they have all their own ideas they go honestly everything they’re trying to do in the space probably won’t work like I think they’re going about it the whole wrong way but they’ll probably end up being successful anyways that’s the crazy thing about this like uh their margin for error is so large and that it can kind of do anything and still have it work because their brand their celebrity their distribution their trust and loyalty In Their audience is so large that you can kind of mess up eight out of ten things and still get it get it to work eventually um whereas most startups most businesses don’t have that margin for for error and so I don’t know what the big takeaway is it’s kind of a no dub but it’s a if you’re mega mega famous it’s not hard at that point to do the Empire thing because uh it’s like uh what was his name the noise from native how he when he was selling his company and they’re like you sell just deodorant you know you’re asking for this big valuation he goes yeah because uh do you know how to write the word native on a bottle of shampoo do you know how to write the word native on a on a bottle of toothpaste cool that’s your expansion plan like I left a lot of room for this to grow if you could still write the word native on something it will work and that’s that’s how I feel about these Mega celebrity Brands which is like if you if you put my face on something it’s gonna work so let’s let’s put this in in a very realistic context so you and I have that minus or no divided by a hundred so we’re Oprah divided by a thousand whatever it is but we we have a very small taste of it and we also have friends you know like the Tim ferrisses of the world and and whoever else who have it you know times 10 or 20 for us and are in this like potentially billion dollar space there’s been three things I think that I’ve narrowed it down to that make this Empire strategy um that whole hold me back and and I imagine someone like Tim who’s a perfectionist or someone like that holds them back number one is reputational risk so putting your name on crap products and then how on Earth can you actually like track it all to make sure that you’re not you’re not putting your name on bad on bad products that you actually Stand By and so because of that it’s almost like you have to pick and choose but then there’s other people like Richard Branson that put you know virgin on everything and it kind of has seemed like it worked out uh so that’s like the big thing number two is finding people who you can trust when you have five or ten or thirty different things going on you need really trustworthy people and even if it’s your family even if it’s your brother and your cousin people can screw you and like you have to really stay on top of it you have to find a partner who’s good enough to like really have your back like even my accountant or imagine if like your lawyer your accountant and every once in a while you’re like is this person actually thinking of me or how are they incentivized here and who’s actually making the right decision that’s actually exhausting and I think in in quite hard um and then the final thing is like do they want the headache of that so like a Joe Rogan uh he’s just like no F this like I’m on my Island here I have what I need I don’t want to put my name on anything uh screw that I I don’t need anything and I want to keep things small and tight and so those are kind of the three things I think prevent like Empires from being built like this yeah I think that’s true um so say that say the the first one again what was the first one do you remember reputational risk having people that you can trust and then just like not wanting more headache and here’s the counter to each okay reputational risk put your your name on crap products do you uh have you drank Prime uh once I tried it it’s fine it’s fine it’s also the fastest growing drink in the country right now and it’s fine and I think that that’s the the counter to that is yes you can’t put it on a crap product or do something that would you know hurt people or do something like that like you know nothing nothing on the sort of terrible end of the register but there’s a lot of leeway between the best product in the market and it’s fine and you just gotta fall somewhere there right it’s like a it’s like you’re playing golf and the Fairway is so wide you really gotta screw it up if you had to hit it out of bounds and that’s how I feel with these products like is uh Kylie’s lip product the best product on the market I have no idea is um you know for most of these products I can’t tell you that Conor McGregor’s whiskey or The Rock’s tequila is uh is anything better than fine they might just be you’re saying their head there’s got to be a threshold there’s a threshold or the threshold’s pretty goddamn low so I think the reputational risk is is a little bit less than than what I what I think a lot of people would worry about uh the rest is true it can become a headache and you do have to find competent people to run them the good thing is when you have that brand it’s like Prime the pro you know Prime didn’t start by Logan Paul and KSI saying let’s create a drink let’s go to the flavor house and create a formulation there were some entrepreneurs who approached them that said we do this we’ve done this at you know medium scale with you guys we could go super scaled and we will take care of everything you guys take the cut you guys help us with the promotion but like look we come with this track record and I think that’s what happens for most of these these celebrities as they’re approached by people with track records like even the example I was just giving somebody with a track record came and said I know this industry I’ve done this before with your brand and your distribution we could do this again in a big way um and I think those opportunities just come knocking at your door so it’s not even like where do I go find somebody great it’s like can I filter can I just like recognize great when it shows up shows up at my door is really the uh the question for most these people do you think you would enjoy that type of Fame like chip and Joanna no um Not only would I not enjoy it from a like oh I don’t want to get bothered when I’m out and about with my kids and stuff like that but also I more than that is I don’t enjoy what it takes to get there and that’s actually what goes like that’s actually the most important question of business I was talking to Ben Levy about this the other day we’re talking about business ideas earlier earlier I asked you this a while ago and you go there’s a price to pay I ain’t willing to pay it yeah exactly know the price and then decide if you’re if you’re gonna pay it um when we were talking about business ideas it was like oh do we like this idea or this idea and the easy thing to do I think everybody gets this wrong is like I love basketball so I want to do a basketball based idea or I love I’m really passionate about like helping people so I’m gonna do this Healthcare startup whatever it may be and they think that their enjoyment of the of the thing is going to be based on the product or category that they’re in but in reality most of the time you spend when you’re an entrepreneur is trying to grow or sell it’s trying to get more customers and grow grow their actual business and so you’re not playing basketball your day-to-day experience is actually about selling and trying to grow and what ends up happening is that some ways are more enjoyable or suit you better than others so for some people they love Facebook ads or they love SEO and for some people they love phone calls and for some people they love high-level business deals Enterprise sales uh where you’re nurturing a long relationship for a long period of time and the big mistake people make is they think oh I’m creating a basketball related startup what they don’t realize is that the only way for that business to grow is through Enterprise sales and they hate Enterprise sales so they’re unwilling to go and sell to these facility managers of NBA stadiums or they’re unwilling to sell to blah blah blah and they think they’re in the basketball business but they’re in the Enterprise sales business because ninety percent of their day-to-day work and they’re they’re the challenge that they’re faced with and the the stuff they have to do the whether they’re selling basketballs or ping pong balls or uh books it doesn’t matter it’s the the sales channel the sales process is where you’re gonna spend most of your time so you got to figure out which sales process do I like the most or at least tolerate the best and then find a business that uses that sales process right I think that is like a I wish somebody had told me that earlier because I got tripped up with this for many many years and when I look back I’m like oh I just really like growing things through Facebook ads it’s like it to me it’s way better than these other ones and so like so I have a list I’m like my favorite sales channel is just mention it on the podcast it couldn’t be anything easier than that like if I could just tell people what I think about this product and then they go buy it because they already trust me and they like me and we have enough listeners to this product uh to this podcast that is the number one easiest sales Channel most pleasurable so if I can think of a business that works in that fantastic number two for me is Facebook ads why because I don’t have to talk to anybody I sit behind the computer I set up the budget and when it works I just scale it up with the push of a button I don’t have to hire more sales people I don’t have to like go do something new you can take one image that works or one video One 10 second video that works in Facebook ads and put millions of dollars of spend behind it and make multiple Millions more off that ad I love that I love that model I like that I can look at the dashboard see a number and know what to do I yes that’s like my number two and my number three is cold emails because I’m good at Cold emailing and it’s kind of a pain in the ass but I’ve done it before I can train people to do that I’ve had a cold email in order to generate customers those are my three favorites everything else I don’t like as much and so when I think of an idea it’s got to fall in that top three have you so we had I guess technically the hustle kinda was Enterprise sales I mean we had six maybe once or twice we had seven figure deals and that’s like a long process I wasn’t allowed to go to those meetings because like I remember like I had to go and buy like brown shoes and like tight jeans and like tuck my shirt in and like a certain way I was like dude like I’m Todd nice to meet you uh like uh it wasn’t for me got all the details wrong just a tank top tucked in some khakis which are tucked into some brown shoes yeah you’re not created everything right before the meeting they’re like Sam that the buttons are supposed to be in the front that was a breakaway yeah so I was like was learning as I as I went but as the owner of a company that had Enterprise sales it is awesome because what I didn’t realize there’s this amazing thing that I learned which is that sales teams can create demand so even if your product our product was great but even if your product is okay if you have a good sales team you can truly create demand and I didn’t understand that until like year two or three of like having a team like this I’m like oh my God this is how the world works because most big companies they just have a certain amount of budget they have to spend it on something and if you just get in with them and you wind and dine them and you they like you half the time the product doesn’t even matter they just have to spend it otherwise next year they won’t have the same budget if they don’t have the same budget they don’t have a job so and you can like that or you cannot like it frankly I don’t love that that that’s like the truth but if you can make it work it’s pretty amazing and I like learned that the hard way while running a company like this and if you don’t know which one you like your best bet is to go get exposure to a bunch of them so go go try your hand and do like a six month rotation where you’re basically like okay how do I do this Enterprise sales thing how do I do cold calling how do I do Google ads how do I do these different things and figure out which one of these appeals to you because once you do that then then you could kind of pick and choose I know most most people and I think you you would find this to be true most successful people we know they don’t really hop around sales channels that much it’s like no if they’re good at find one thing and you kill it yeah oh you’re good at SEO they just do SEO four different times of four different flavors oh you good at Facebook ads you do Facebook ads for one business then another business then another business if you’re good at uh Enterprise sales you just figure out you know which businesses to plug into that over time and they kind of make a career out of really understanding one growth process being a master at any growth thing is uh is super super valuable oh platform so it shares its data across every application every team can stay aligned no out of sync spreadsheets or dueling databases HubSpot grow better um do you want to talk about hustle GP GPT 3 or do you want to go to another topic um which let’s do some quicker ones I feel like we did a long long-winded thing so I have I have a couple quick ones tell me okay so I’m gonna give you my two uh bad dating ideas and by the way I’d like to to put another drunk ideas on the books to uh to just put that out there this would have been in my drunk ideas thing but we don’t have it scheduled so I’m just gonna do it sober so two bad dating ideas um number one do you watch this TV show love is blind Sarah does so it’s on my TV all the time okay good so you know that you and my wife have like the exact same TV stuff like for the listener Sean and Sarah are texting about Bachelor or Bachelorette or whatever it’s called yeah or no what do you guys talk about the challenge the challenge but also these other shows so um so love is blind is this like sensation Show on Netflix which is basically like you get a bunch of single people together they’re in these rooms they can’t see each other so you kind of speed date you’re dating you date other people but you never get to see them so you’re only supposed to fall over their personality and then after you choose who you like the best on their personality then you get to see them and you get to see what happens okay so and don’t you like get married at the end yeah well of course to to like any great story you need stakes and so they’ve raised the stakes by saying you don’t just get to pick say oh I like Sam the best let me I want to see him now it’s like in order to see him he must get engaged blind and get married four weeks later so they like you know that’s how they make it a TV show but some people walk walk on the altar yeah well a lot of people when they see the other person they’re like oh hey it’s so good to see you like they’re just like oh man like I imagine something different and now I’m stuck with you right now I look like an [ ] because I fell in love with your personality and I fell out of love with your face uh but they can’t say that so they have to find some other excuse one guy on the show was like they’re trying to get an idea of how uh how they looked and they go so I’m pretty the guy was like I only weigh 150 pounds yes could I give you a piggy background he goes and it was so smooth the way he did it and vice versa he terrible he goes I love to go to music festivals she’s like me too he goes at music festivals you know I uh I usually put my girlfriend up on my shoulders um do you think I’d be able to do that he’s like did she catch it yeah she was like uh like no that’s my worst nightmare is a guy like struggling to lift my body weight and so she was just like what the hell but what size rowboat do we need on this on this season there’s one guy she they fell in love and then they meet and he’s just he’s not he’s not bad looking or whatever but he’s does really intense eye contact like the guy doesn’t blink and she’s like you’re gonna never known this from behind the wall and so she’s like haha like how come you’re not looking away and he’s like what what do you mean I am blinking and she’s like no like please look away it’s like so uncomfortable to watch so anyways great show I think somebody should take this show on the road literally I think somebody should do a I think the show but if not the show then somebody should spin this off do a Love is Blind tour where you go City to city and people pay to be a part of the experiment so people pay to actually like do the show themselves I also think you should do a podcast version of Love is Blind because podcast is Audio Only so it’s already no visual so you could have two people talking and you could sort of edit and cut this together and make a a pod version of Love is Blind so I think people could take this concept of this dating show or it could be other dating shows too but make a make a tour out of it make a show out of it where it’s going from City to city and people get to participate almost like American Ninja Warrior some people get to participate and other people get to watch the the show going down and uh I think that these things could generate a lot of money ticket wise because Netflix has done the hard work of educating the market and so once you get that education in the market now somebody should go to them and get the license like we talked about this with uh kids cartoons like or they can just call it like uh love with poor eyesight I forgot my glasses love so so like people did this with a cartoon that was a I gave you a laugh to try to like you know smooth it over um but like kids cartoons like blippi or cocoa melon there’s these companies that go and they license the rights to create the cocomelon live tour or the blippi live tour and I’ve gone to these and these I did a segment on the Pod about these these things make millions of dollars a year yeah well the every parent loves it’s like where you can’t really there’s not many places you could take a tiny kid that’s like kid friendly but this is perfect because they already love these cartoons on YouTube and so I’m willing to pay 50 bucks a ticket times four so I pay 200 bucks then I buy the merch then I buy the snacks because of course my kids want snacks and you know we go there and we’ve dropped 400 500 by the by the end of it or you know something like that and so these these shows can make a lot of money and so I think somebody could do this with other television shows including the dating shows that’s not a bad idea at all well that’s that’s a great idea something worse you should have seen an average person trying to explain that you would have laughed in the bathroom okay here’s my second Love is Blind on tour ah even that sounds all right so my second uh bad dating uh idea okay so you’ve heard about this like dating app Raya you know about this app it’s basically a dating app originally for famous people but now it’s like dating apps for people with like verified on Instagram or something yeah I don’t even really understand it I think somebody needs to come over the top on Raya and make the even more Elite dating app so I’m calling it Daddy here’s what Daddy is so daddy daddy or daddy you know we’re debating it internally so daddy is an app where for a guy to be on Daddy actually let me first start with the girls side okay for a woman to be on Daddy she’s got a basically audition or apply and we’re only accepting the top one percent of eligible women so this is beautiful but not just beautiful smart but not just smart you got to be living in a in a town a big city so that you know you’re available to be to be to be uh you know reached to be dated so beautiful smart top one percent maybe even point one percent of applicants get in more more Elite than Harvard and then on the guy side you got to pay 25 000 a year to be on the app so that’s the app idea five thousand men if you can get five thousand men who have the money to drop 25 G’s on their dating app they get access to this Elite Pool of women who want access to this Rich group of men and it is what it is that’s our slogan it is what it is is it right nah but it is what it is okay and so it is what it is it’s Rich guys with beautiful smart women and the business model is if we can get 5 000 guys to pay us this amount that’s a hundred million dollars a year business does that sound like something you might be interested in so when I was studying like for Hampton to launch Hampton I was like curious about communities and there’s a bunch of a lot of people are like you should charge like a hundred grand a year and the reason being is there’s a bunch of communities out there where the whole thing of making it Elite and Community is just can you pay the money yes and I was thinking about that and I’m like first like the audacity and second if you can get my first question is how dare you you are yeah who are you uh and the but if you can get past that how amazing is that where your whole business is just ah if you could pay it you’re probably good so we’ll just uh we’ll we’ll be we’ll happen to be that middleman and check it out and so there’s this app called The League do you know what the league is it’s a dating app it started when we’re in San Francisco about this woman named Amanda Bradford who I’m friends with here in Austin she sold it recently to what’s the big the big company IAC who owns like match and Bumble and or not Bumble Tinder and what Amanda was getting started she was or the the league kind of took off and so I don’t you probably don’t know it was the premise right it was like only it was like an Ivy League but then she one day she was like how hard can I push this and so right now the league costs I believe it’s either 499 or 999 dollars so it’s either 499 or 999 it’s one of those two and the reason being is that’s the highest price per month that you can charge on Apple’s uh on the Apple Store 399 per month sorry yeah 399 dollars per month so yeah it’s it’s the highest that you could possibly charge and she goes screw it that’s what it’s going to cost to get premium features and people like at our I think her team was like this is crazy we can’t do this no one will do this and it crushed it an IAC came to her and they’re like we want to buy you because how on Earth are you able to charge this and I imagine in her head she was like well it was actually pretty easy I just uh added an extra nine at the end actually you’re right nine the highest tier is called investor uh member 299 owner 399 investor 999.99 yeah yeah yeah it’s like uh it’s like uh there’s like an episode in South Park where they come up with this like new MBA and they’re like look I don’t make up the rules I just think them up and write them down you can’t argue with me I didn’t make up the rules and it’s like well how’d you increase pricing so much well I just clicked that button nine and uh we added we made it instead of 999 we made it 900 or instead of 99.99 it was 999 so anyway it’s killed it and so I actually think that there are a lot of interesting opportunities in the market where you can just charge way more and it feels very weird that’s the business model and actually now that I think about it twenty five thousand dollars a year that was complete small boy stuff and I apologize to the entire audience this needs to be 100 Grand a year this has to be 100 Grand a year and guess what we only need a thousand members now we only need a thousand guys who are willing to drop 100 Grand in order to get access to the most and in fact you know what we’re gonna do we’re gonna take a portion of that money and we’re gonna pay some women to be on this app we’re gonna say look you are so great you were casted onto this and you are going to be paid to be a part of this network because um we want to blur the lines between prostitution and legal dating oh my God it is what it is as we say God bless you maybe this will work but yeah good but I think there’s there needs to be more uh apps that do this that go over the top uh with it like I agree basically find the theoretical Max of uh of of what what the market will bear or what uh what people actually want to do right like what what is the actual Behavior people want and what are they willing to do and it’s usually more than you think um or more than you know sound sounds reasonable like what what if you just took an unreasonable approach to the same thing what would you do differently is it is a question you can ask about really any business like there’s these guys that created this thing called the unreasonable Institute back in the day and I loved Is that real yeah it was a great it was a great idea is it called the unreasonable Institute and it was for I just love the name because I loved the entire premise which was what good has been come from just taking a reasonable approach to something if you’re trying to make any big [ ] happen you’re trying to do anything change the way anything works you know like create a new system or improve something or innovate you know in a way by definition you’re going to do something slightly unreasonable um and so is this called the unreasonable group yeah it was called the unreasonable Institute then they had the unreasonable like toward where they like they like on a cruise ship and went into international waters um and then they did a bunch of this now it’s probably called this is like 10 plus years ago so yeah that’s so funny that’s probably true well there’s a thing called unreasonable group and it’s the unreasonable Collective is an International Community of sophisticated investors we pull we pull Capital as a community and co-invest in world class but then there’s the unreasonable Institute which is a fast track program to give altruistic entrepreneur skills and funding to affect large-scale change yeah I think that’s the one sounds maybe a little yeah the first one maybe sounds cooler though but uh uh that’s cool I like that name um speaking of unreasonable you want to wrap this up by talking one thing Elon Musk okay did you see what he did uh so you see the Twitter thing well which which sort of thing I feel like every day there’s a Elon Musk Twitter thing yeah that’s where he blurred out the W oh yeah oh okay this is news no no I saw this so basically this is to explain this this is dumb there’s this there’s this thing in the UFC call if you win so basically the UFC and all but fighting it has weight divisions and every once in a while someone like Conor McGregor or someone else comes along and they achieve greatness and they earn what’s called The Champ champ status meaning they have a champ uh they’re the champion in one weight Division and then while having that belt they also gain a few pounds and go up and win another belt it’s unheard of in my opinion Elon is the champ champ he has amazing products he’s one of the best entrepreneurs out there he’s the champion he’s also the most cringiest he’s the champ champ right now uh he does whatever the [ __ ] he wants that’s what champ Champs do and recently like last night he tweeted out that there was a dispute with the landlord saying you can’t like alter the sign or something like that so he took like a piece of white sheet or paper or something and he blurred out the W so now Twitter the sign it’s a huge sign when you live in San Francisco I lived a block away from it it says titter and it’s the most cringed thing I’ve ever seen why on Earth would he do that I love a good troll but that’s not like funny it just makes like people like look I like trolling I love punching up uh but this is like uh this is punching yourself in the face I like making people uncomfortable this is the bad type of uncomfortable go to his Twitter uh right now do you see what his name is on Twitter right now because you thought that was the cringiest thing he’s done in the last 48 hours well he’s one-upped himself oh my God what an idiot oh God what is his Twitter name his name right now is hey hairy balls he spells balls b-o-l-z but it’s hairy balls that is his name on Twitter right now oh Elon you’re so you’re so irreverent yeah dude these Billionaire’s senses of humor just like us I would love to see what Elon thinks the like other people’s reaction is he must type these in and just sit back and just smirk just have a smug look on his face just imagine oh man the internet’s gonna love this I I’m super rich but I don’t take myself too seriously look at this yeah next week it’s gonna be like uh like Elon baller 69. like it’s just like this is the lamest thing ever man I don’t know how I mean I guess like look with extreme personalities comes to extreme success but they don’t tell you there’s another end of that bell curve and that’s extreme that’s extreme cringe and that and we’re experiencing that a little bit right now I know a lot of billionaires not a lot I know a couple billionaires and I know a lot of wildly successful people and they do every once in a while like you’re like oh hey man you don’t know how to hold a conversation appropriately let me help you out here this is kind of what’s happening with him it just so happens that it’s in front of 125 million followers he has like the cringe version of Tourette’s like dude just stop you can’t he can’t stop just blurting out these cringy things yeah it’s it’s ridiculous um he’s he I actually think that he’s kind of ruining his legacy for sure here um like maybe five years ago he was the um and he still is the man frankly like his accomplishments are amazing but he’s a little less of the man at this point it was a funny just a little funny back and forth he uh somebody tweeted out a um a graph of all the billion dollar chart of all the billion dollar companies and what industries they’re in yeah I saw that and uh Paul Graham retweeted and he says oh you know what’s interesting here is like we’re clearly like over indexed online software and like you know real world things like uh Hardware or manufacturing you know there’s only like a few companies in that bucket um but don’t let that hold you back you should still do it I think there’s a lot of opportunity there and Elon replied and was like um yeah like a complete waste uh you know it says something like it was like a big waste of um of resources or brain power or talent that that was the case and then uh and the the response was the biggest own and I’ve seen in a week it was it was a really good reply program goes yeah can you think of anybody right now who’s really talented and uh it could be doing those things but is wasting their time on a software project and it’s so good because obviously talk about Elon um and uh yeah it’s like a perfect self cell phone really by Elon yeah it was pretty good took it it was good that was good I’m a big fan of him um of Paul Grant I’m still an Elon guy I think I might get myself a Tesla but I don’t like this it makes it hard to want to wear like a Tesla t-shirt that’s for sure not that he cares but uh it makes it challenging to like root for him publicly when he makes these stupid comments people people in our comments hate when I make fun of uh Elon or or dis Elon or chamoth or these guys uh because they’re like fans of them which is totally fair you could be fans of whoever you want uh but I just wanted for the record I’m out on Elon early because guess what more and more you’re gonna be out on this guy over time and I just want to plant the flag I’m out on him early because his cringe will eventually wash away all these people or he’s gonna get canceled for something I’m telling you it’s it’s gonna happen and I I would like the record to show that I was out early dude these these people in our comments are crazy to me because why can’t someone do a lot of really good stuff and also some bad stuff like why can’t like someone kick ass at a at a ton of different things and make a huge amount of mistakes totally uh because whenever we talk about this we say yeah he’s he’s the best at a bunch of different things he’s the greatest entrepreneur he’s of of I don’t know the last 30 years 50 years that is true also true he’s pretty cringe and uh Courtney and disingenuous amounts of some things right that’s also true yeah it’s like I can love Michael Jackson’s music and also not love what he did you know like both like both can exist I can like Chick-fil-A chicken and also not stand by what they right what they stand for you know both can be true and I and I can’t stand that with the with the commenters on our on our stuff but let’s we’re gonna get a reaction on this I’m eager to see what it is but uh anyway that’s an action-packed pod I think