Episode of My First Million with Sam Parr and Shaan Puri.
Transcript
Note: This transcript was auto-generated from YouTube captions. It may contain errors and lacks speaker identification. A full Gemini audio transcript will replace this.
Kind: captions Language: en when i i first hosted my uh i hosted my first event in june and the event happened or i decided to do it around june 1st and the event went place seven weeks later in august and when i started i had close to nothing i had a 200 person email list so there wasn’t like this oh it’s easy for you you had the hustle no no it didn’t exist uh there was no website there was just a domain name called hustle cut um and i hosted this event in the first six weeks it made about sixty thousand dollars in revenue and fifty ish thousand dollars in profit and a lot of people were surprised by that it was but it wasn’t that hard the second event you can see here explain so how did you sell the sixty thousand dollars of tickets during that process i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be what i want to i put my all in it like my days off on the road let’s travel never looking back today sean let’s actually jump right you i think want to do this billy of the week right away and then i have a thing on events do you want to do events or you want to save that what do you want to do i want to do that so i want to do this billy of the week i want to hear your stuff on paid events and then i have two ideas one is a cool idea i’ve seen and then the other is a brainstorm of a potential idea so i want to do all those things so let’s start with let’s start with the billy of the week um this one is very interesting have you ever heard of this guy before don’t don’t google it i want to tell you the story so don’t don’t google this guy all right let me tell you a picture i’m just i i google them i’m just thinking oh wow okay yeah uh young guy young guy 29 years old i don’t know who he is his name is wow sam bankman freed i think it’s the way you say his name and uh when you if you heard him talk like i actually want you to listen to a youtube video for a second because he sounds like you know an absolute dweeb and i loved it i was like oh this guy sounds like he would be a self-made billionaire by the age of 29 because he sounds like a genius he sounds like a tech genius have you brought this person up to me before no i just discovered him like two days ago okay so what’s this guy’s story so this guy you know i’ll just come sam for short but uh so this guy sam he’s a he he’s a young guy he’s very smart um he takes a job as kind of like a hedge fund trader or something like that with a group called jane street i guess and uh i don’t know i forget these details they don’t really matter guys got a job in finance and he leaves and he starts something called alameda research and it’s called alameda research because he needed it to sound as legit as possible and not like what it actually was so what was it so what this guy did was he was into crypto and there was this known thing in crypto where as crypto was getting popular this is around 2017 when the first big run-up happened and bitcoin went you know from three thousand dollars to twenty thousand dollars and it crashed later but during that time 2016 2017 2018 bitcoin was emerging and there was this as any new thing there’s these like kind of uh it’s like the wild wild west a little bit and so there was this thing where in the u.s the price of bitcoin was let’s say 10 000 of bitcoin and in other countries where um the exchanges weren’t built or the com the country had some regulations or whatever there was like a premium for bitcoin there was more demand than there was bitcoin available to buy in those countries uh because you need like let’s say like in korea there was a famous uh thing called the kimchi the kimchi premium and the kimchi premium was that in korea there wasn’t kimchi like the uh like the the food so this was known as the kimchi premium and basically it was like uh whatever bitcoin was selling for here let’s say it was ten thousand dollars in korea it was trading for fifteen thousand dollars because it was that bigger fifty percent premium and it fluctuated obviously and i think 30 was kind of like the average of the kimchi premium over time so everybody wanted this so everybody you know any smart person saw oh wow there’s an arbitrage what if i could just buy it in the u.s for 10 grand and immediately sell it in korea for 15 grand or for 30 you know 13 grand and so you had this like ability to flip it and so a whole bunch of people were trying to do this but there was all these problems right like well the reason you know the reason wasn’t easy the reason there was this premium is because it was hard to buy bitcoin in korea so one idea was you buy it in the u.s off a u.s exchange you go to korea and you sell it but you’re gonna sell it for in the korean you know wan which is like the local currency but now you need to like for the for the arbitrage to continue you have to convert the korean wand back to dollars to go buy more go buy more bitcoin in the us the problem was you can’t convert the korean wand back to dollars easily because the government was very like tight fisted regulations you couldn’t funnel large amounts of money from the korean wand back to dollars very very easily so a whole bunch of people were trying to get this like pinata of money and they couldn’t crack it and what this guy did was he was like okay [ ] the kimchi premium he went for the japan premium which was far less appealing it was only 10 but he’s like still if i can if i could trade a u.s bitcoin for 10 more in japan every day i’m making 10 compounding daily and so he went through this like odyssey where for like a year all he’s doing is setting up this trade so he like for actually by the way first when he was trying to figure out could i capture the kimchi premium he was like doing calculations like if i filled up if i chartered a private plane and i filled it up with a hundred people and i flew you know they buy bitcoin in the us and i flew them all to korea and then they they you know sell it there and then i could each one of them could convert some amount of that money and i could fly them back and every day i could fly this plane back and forth between us and korea like could i make it work and he was like i don’t think it works so wait so you had to be there physically it’s not that you had to be there physically you have to do all like all legs of the transaction so you have to be able to buy in korea or like sell your bitcoin in korea at the premium but now you have korean wan now you need to convert that to dollars and so how do you do that you need to convert it there but there’s caps they won’t let you convert it because the way he described it is like look he’s like what i wanted to do essentially was to be you know selling five million dollars of bitcoin for the local currency and converting five million of local currency back to us every day it’s like if you if you just go to like go to korea go to japan go to wherever and you say hey i’d like to it’s like a one-way flow of money i have five million dollars of your local currency i’d like to convert it to dollars and exit the country um and they’re like okay but where are you getting all this money and why are you doing such a large amount like what is this yeah he’s like you know if you if you go to bank school 101 that’s like money laundering that’s what money laundering looks like that that is what money laundering that is exactly what money laundering looks like so he’s like even though i’m not money laundering i’m buying and selling a good that’s differently priced in different regions to them on the ground to the bank on the ground where i need to do these conversions it’s shady it’s too shady they won’t let me do it so he spends like a year of his life where he’s like goes to japan now he’s got to find uh he’s got to do each each one of these was hard so anyways the net end of this story is this guy’s arbitraging 25 million dollars a day of of this currency he’s making a 10 compounding uh you know margin every single day and this guy you know in the three years basically he’s become a self-made billionaire he’s worth 10 billion dollars now which is a combination of the money he made from the arbitrage trade as well as he then created his own exchange um and like you know so he has a trading company that’s you know has made hundreds of millions of dollars on this arbitrage and then he built he used that to create an exchange which is worth billions of dollars on paper so anyways this guy’s worth 10 billion dollars he and his because uh the currency is called ftx right right that’s his exchange his exchange called fps oh sorry sorry exchange and uh that is is that basically an alternative to basically a more higher end it’s a more sophisticated coinbase where you can do like derivatives trades option trades on all different types of credits internationally and that’s like and that’s like a proper company it’s a proper company with like so many research made hundreds of millions of dollars in the span of a few months just doing this one trade over and over again every day so i’m going to describe a couple things but he got on people’s radar because he was the biggest donor to joe biden this year in the campaign he wrote a he wrote like a five million dollar check at the last hour like at the 11th hour that let joe do like you know as part of this like you know last minute blitz they did on tv ads in all the swing states uh because this this kind of interesting this guy’s like very uh his whole business philosophy is this thing called effective altruism which is basically like go be a greedy capitalist go try to make as much money as you can and your goal is to give at least half of it away while you’re doing it so he’s got like it’s not like a philanthropist giving away one percent of his money or 10 of his money as a tie his goal is giving away like 50 of his liquid liquid like net worth you know like that he makes every year that’s his like kind of like his mindset where did he get the money to start this so he started it with a very small amount of money and it just compounded very quickly because he’s basically getting 10 extra every day so i i don’t know exactly where he got the initial seed capital or how big it was he hasn’t specified that but he did say at the max they were doing 25 million a day on the trade which is basically like a 2.5 million like you know like profit per day uh that they were making on the trade and so he describes that okay so he’s like basically if you want to do this you have to like break it down into small chunks he’s like okay so i need on one side i need to be able to go buy a [ ] ton of bitcoin in the u.s so how do i get exchange in the u.s that’s going to give me really high limits even though i’m this dorky kid who’s got no track record and i have no collateral or brand name and so he’s like finds a way to solve that problem of like being able to buy 25 million dollars of bitcoin in the u.s then he had to like go to japan and he had to be able to sell a huge amount of bitcoin there then he had to be able to convert it from the japanese yen or whatever to us dollars and he had to do that all in the same day and wire transfer it all back to the us to buy it again the next day to buy the full max amount to get the next time every day and so he described like they would just the way that the timing worked it was always in the last hour of the banking day that he would be trying to get all the wire transfers done to get the money back to the us so that they can execute tomorrow’s trade and any day that they couldn’t what does he sound like you said he sounds crazy like i’m looking at pictures oh my god he sounds extremely genuine humble high-pitched voice kind of like just a nerdy guy um who was like he accounted for about ten percent of all the bitcoin trading himself his alameda research during that time period i believe which is just like insane because he was moving so much money dude i love these people i love i love freaks this guy is a freak this is his setup you know his desk is him with six monitors hanging above his head his neck is like cramped because he just needs to constantly monitor the spot price in the u.s what’s the price in japan what’s the conversion of yen to dollars what’s the conversion of dollars here it is it’s just constantly and any time anything broke it was just costing them tons of money and he had always had to make sure nobody’s gonna like stop his trade to stop the bottleneck and then he’s stuck with all this like japanese yen and can’t move it or it gets seized by the government and so he was like the main banks wouldn’t work with him so that’s why he picked alameda research as a name to like be more legit he hired like this like kind of like sophisticated guy like who spoke the local language to be able to go talk to the bankers and be like hey here’s what we’re doing he also like went to like these rural banks in japan not the main ones in the city he’s like okay these rural banks will take my business because they’re like more open to what i’m doing than like the citibanks that are like you know have a tighter filter on what i’m doing so anyways i just thought it was super interesting to like he identified one arbitrage like moneyball style and then dedicated like a year or 18 months of his life to just hammering this one arbitrage and ended up making hundreds of millions of dollars and uh parlayed that into becoming you know his paper net worth is 10 billion and he did that i think four years total of how he built 10 billion because the because the the combination of the research the the trading company plus the exchange um 10 billion is what he what he estimates is his net worth to be god i love people like this i um i mean that’s astounding there’s very he’s that’s one of a kind but i love people and i try to do this with the hustle with email addresses uh with an email list but that’s peanuts compared to this and what some other people do but basically who take a small tiny kind of like silly thing and just amp it up on steroids so i love that i think that is the coolest thing i love people who think like that i think it’s so fascinating um i’d have to think of some more examples of that but you totally know what i mean right yeah absolutely i’ve met this before with like people who make a poker bot it’s like what are you doing it’s like every day there’s tweaking this little bot that’s running 24 7 at the at the one and two cent tables of full tilt poker and they have this like small edge like this like 15 percent edge and then they’re just like tweaking the system and and what it reminds me of is what happens a lot of times is people will go buy information they’ll go say oh i pay i pay like my uncle does this he was paying 19 a month for like this guy’s like stock tips i had to like sit my uncle down and be like look like if these are amazing stock tips do you really think this guy’s going to give it to you for 19 like no like you know if this guy really had an edge in the market he would not need to make money educating you he would be pounding his advantage right and trying to make as much money as he can as long as that window exists and so like oh i have another example this this guy on twitter called haralabob do you follow him no pretty fascinating guy to follow so this guy is a high stakes gambler he’s a professional gambler which usually is an oxymoron uh like there’s no such thing as a professional gambler but he he was a professional sports bettor and what he realized was back in i think 26 i forgot it was 2013 20 2012 i don’t remember when it was like maybe it was even longer than that i think it might have been like 15 years ago now he realized that in vegas the books were they were so sports books it’s kind of like hard to beat the house the bookies are always like spot on and there’s one type of bet called the you know over under it’s basically like in basketball it’s like what’s the total score going to be is it going to be if you add up the total of both teams is it 200 more and you bet if it’s gonna be over or under that and the over under is really really accurate but what he noticed was that um he noticed two things one was the bookies did not take into account that actually in the first half like in the basketball game the second half the score is usually higher than the first half because at the end of the game the team that’s losing will start fouling uh because they’re like look we have to try to get back in this game so i’ll follow you to save the clock stops you get two free throws and then i’ll come back try to hit a three and so that’s usually the end game for most most teams like if you’re down you foul the other team clock stops uh they score while the clock is stopped and then i try to shoot threes to get back in the game and i’m pretty desperate so what he noticed was that the total over under if you just divided it by half that’s what they would just 50 that’s what they were making as the first half over under and very few people bet the first half over under because it’s not that fun of a bet it’s like who cares what the halftime score is gonna be if you’re gonna bet the score you just bet the end of the game score um so he realized it was a small edge they thought they were taking the full score and dividing by half and making that the line he’s like oh my god this is almost always going to be under and he specifically noticed that these three teams their coaches would like do that foul strategy way more in the second half so he’s like okay there’s these teams that these coaches do this strategy more and the first half is like my arbitrage and he doesn’t say [ ] to anybody he just starts hiring people to go to the books all the different what’s this person’s name this guy harala bob and i’m kind of i’m kind of paraphrasing about that it’s h-a-r-a-l-a-b-o-b harala bob and so um and now he works for mark q he works for the dallas mavericks i think he works for mark cuban because he like wow got a big personality on twitter because he was the sports bettor and like the way he made all of his money was like he had identified over these like 10 years of being a sports bettor he found like three different edges one was he just like went super hard on the shaq and kobe lakers the second was this first half like uh first half over under bet that was just mispriced and he just took that missed pricing and he just went all in on this miss pricing wow this guy was crazy anytime a sports book would limit him he would then like pay a guy like hey go walk up and bet 25 000 of this game please and then he was like do that he had like people betting at all the sports books in all the different casinos at the same time so that he could be betting the type of money he wanted to bet to maximize his advantage while this arbitrage existed and so uh anyways i love people who find these arbitrages and then like the lengths that they have to go through to maximize it it’s like the movie 21 where they’re counting cards in vegas and they’re like strapping cash to their body walking through this airport because they like need to go like palpable you used to have this guy who worked for you named steve or stephen i think yeah um he and then he so basically if i remember correctly what he did was he would create these i don’t know if he created like so he would buy a really small twitter handle that was called like today in history and it would just tweet like a picture of what happened 50 years ago you know uh jfk was shot uh then he would buy like a cool car twitter one where it was like uh here’s all interesting cars and then like i can’t believe it it could fly which is like weird flying devices that when you look at them they look silly and he eventually bought i believe hundreds of them to the point of where he built a business so he did one of he did two things that were interesting the story you said was he goes basically i control the internet let me show you how by the end of the talk i’m going to have x trend right like i’m going to have this thing from the audience he’d be like say a word and people like gobbly [ ] he said all right cool while we’re talking um in 30 minutes we’ll just set a clock here we’re going to check twitter in 30 minutes and then sure enough gobbledygook would be trending on twitter the number one trend in all of europe because his would all start talking about gobbledygook in meme format and it would just like start to go viral basically and nobody even knew it so what he and he he parlayed this into getting sponsorships and now i don’t know if you know him anymore i don’t know him at all yeah but i i read about him and i and this company went public it went public in a really shady way so i don’t know if i believe everything there’s something about it i don’t have too much evidence it’s just a roll-up of a bunch of bunch of media companies something was weird about it but basically i think it went public in england for like two or three hundred million dollars market cap and so it turned him into quite wealthy uh quite wealthy by the way he personally i think he just released a book called uh what is it happy sexy millionaire sexy millionaire yeah so go buy steve’s book um yeah so anyway he found miss price assets so i remember the first one that he uh discovered was one that was like [ ] freshmen say or is like fr like but you know whatever the the the uk slang for that is it’s basically like a me a parody account that tweeted out funny things that freshmen say on a college campus and what he found the reason it was mispriced was most of these accounts were made by accident by somebody who was 18 years old and 16 years old and they were bored at home and they just made a you know like harry potter you know harry potter jokes twitter account and it gets to a million followers and they don’t know what to do with it and then they kind of like they get paid like 75 bucks on venmo to like shout out some app or like they get paid like 200 to like say a protein powder or like or they would make a blog selling you know like protein powder and they would just like try to funnel some traffic to that but it didn’t like make sense it wasn’t very sophisticated he needed he needed promotion for his business so he was working with these guys then he realized screw my business this is just a really powerful promotional engine we used him uh early on when he was you know we brought him on he was part of my team we used him and we became the number one app in the uk number one app in europe because we used his like network to like talk about our app and what he had the insight was was that you don’t say like our app was bebo at the time so it wasn’t go download bebo it’s a great app no he’s like that [ ] doesn’t work i was like well we need that and we need the link in there so we can track how many clicks he gets he’s like no that’s not how people talk on the internet i was like okay so tell me what do you mean he’s like you got to think like what you want to do is we have so many accounts that we want somebody when they scroll on twitter they see bebo mentioned like seven times and that they don’t even nobody’s explaining it nobody’s selling it to them they just realized why is everyone saying this thing biba what is that and then they go google it or they go search for it and then they actually download the app because they think this is what’s hot this is what people are talking about he’s like so what we’ll do is we’ll make content that’s like um you know my mom when she sees me check bibo for the 50th time today and it’s a meme of the mom throwing your phone out the window and it’s like so the the implied meaning is that bibo is this addictive app that you keep checking that your parents hate that you keep checking well what is that app why would why would this person check that out 50 times i don’t even have that app never heard of it right and so that was the genius of his marketing like tactics at that time um and then he had the audience to back it up so they got spotify and microsoft and all these companies to pay them tons of money because anytime they needed to spread the word about a new thing that they were doing this was the most effective way to reach a bunch of people a bunch of young people and so then he parlayed that he started right launching his own consumer brand so if they have a bunch of food accounts they would launch like a food subscription product or they had a bunch of fitness accounts they would launch like a women’s athletic wear you know like company it didn’t all work but man like crazy ass like business that came you know if you if you want to go research it it’s called social starts right social chain social chain uh steve what’s his embarrassment yeah you should follow him on twitter he’s a great follow uh now he tweets out just like i don’t know inspirational [ ] all the time like motivational stuff yeah he’s like a mini gary vee although he’s like a better garyvee to be honest with you probably a ghetto he’s probably gonna give him like five years and he’s gonna be much bigger than what gary v is today i think um if he sticks with it but uh yeah and there’s some articles that are cool if you go search like the 21 year olds that control the internet i think there’s like a vice article like 22 year olds control buzzfeed buzzfeed yeah so buzzfeed advice did like crazy articles about them i mean at one point they had 25 employees that were all under the age of 22 years old and they were all just managing these media accounts and they were just making tons of money and they like yeah it was insane they built like an office with like a playpen inside and you know like no it’s a good article is it so do you want to talk okay so i was doing research abrayu showed me this and a few other people did basically our most watched recent video is something i you you’ve you’ve kicked ass on instagram i think i’ve got the youtube prize so far um but because our most watched article or most watched video is on paid communities i think the title is how to make 20 million dollars a year doing a paid community something like that um because we talked about a company that does that and now we’ll make this title like how to make like a million dollars or how to make a hundred thousand dollars a year doing a paid event and a bray you asked me to talk about it so i came with a few bullet points so uh you want to talk about paid events i want to because this is how the hustle started so this is like your roots and also we’re starting to plan hustle con again and i have a feeling now more than ever is the time to plan a paid event a in-person paid event because i think you can you can do really well because there’s going to be very little competition and people are really eager to go we talked about it in the past uh about events but so sean if you go to the my the million-dollar brainstorm document uh you’ll see i’m highlighting my name i actually listed all of oh you’re on your phone so it might be a little challenging but i’ve actually listed a whole bunch of our old profit and loss statements from our events if you hit metrics all time you can actually see our all-time metrics although actually this only goes to 2018 so it’s not all time it’s missing three years but um you can kind of see the data you can see how much money we’re making and we are making uh in the first cup in the first year of business about i think um i think about 500 000 with like 84 percent margin right in our first year business and so let’s talk about events so i’ll and this won’t this isn’t going to this is going to be a a 10-minute segment here probably but basically uh when i i first hosted my uh i hosted my first event in june and the event happened or i decided to do it around june 1st and the event went place seven weeks later in august um a 200 person email list so there wasn’t like this oh it’s easy for you you had the hustle no no it didn’t exist there was no website there was just a and i hosted this event in the first six weeks it made about 60 thousand dollars in revenue and fifty ish thousand dollars in profit and a lot of people were surprised by that it was but it wasn’t that hard the second event you can see here explained so how did you sell the sixty thousand dollars of i’m going to explain and and so i just want to give a little give one more bit of context the second event i think it made about 150 to 200 000 in revenue and something like 150 in profit and i did these events six months apart apart um i would basically host an event go travel when i needed money i would host another one and so i was starting each time with close to zero dollars so so let me explain to you guys a little bit about how i started my events and what i would what i would do if i was starting again which is basically if i was starting again i would do mostly the same stuff but i think everyone in the next if you’re listening if you’re willing to spend eight weeks working 40 hours a week dedicated to this i think you could make at least a hundred thousand dollars profit starting probably in september because that’s when uh i think events conferences are going to be okay so anyway um the the biggest thing that you have to do here is your email list is the most important thing so the hustlecon.com i launched that website on june 6th okay and within just a few weeks we were averaging around a thousand or 2000 unique visitors a day and the email list jumped from about 200 people to about 2 500 people in seven weeks keep in mind at the time i didn’t even have a twitter so there was no twitter i mean there was but i didn’t use it and so what i would do is hustlecon.com was basically a landing page where i explained what the event is and then you’d enter your email and that was called the front door the side doors were all these blog posts so i would write two to three blog posts a week on each speaker i would post that on hacker news people would come to the website via the side door only five percent of them would say this is interesting what’s this website and they would click the home page and i would collect their email there and then once i collected their email i would send them a variety of other blog posts that i’d written and at the end of each blog post that i sent them it would say ps this person is speaking at hustle account on uh august 1st in september you can get a ticket right now for 10 off if you buy in the next 12 hours right by the way the next 12 hours that code was working all the time it was always the next 12 hours the countdown clock there’s a simple plug-in that you could buy and it just starts it shows up so sorry guys i’m sure everyone knows this now but i don’t even shopify wasn’t popular at that point so um not everyone had that technology but that’s what we did pretty easy pretty basic and in doing that i’ll give you an example of the blog post because i remember like i remember vividly the one you did about i cracked um which you kind of did like as i’m in infographic i remember the one of pandora so i would do but explain what yeah explain what you did and like also these were speakers so you got speakers to agree legit speakers to agree before you even had audience or anything yes which is the second thing i’m going to talk about is how to land a speaker but the the blog post i basically would just use forbes business insider all these places and just write a biography on the person but i would do it in an interesting way and eventually what happened is we would create infographics so um i had john who worked there and i would say john um here’s the here’s the bulleted points of their life turn it into an infographic please and that’s what we did we had infographics it could have been a blog post which is what i used to do we this time we made infographics and it worked quite well and it was basically um i read the book made to stick and i just copied that so i took information about their company and i made it really easy to understand so for example pandora streams this amount of music per hour which is the equivalent of x y and z uh they the reason why they are able to do that as they were one of the first people to launch on the iphone um and then i like i just tell that story pretty simple i thought it was simple very effective now that’s how we got our initial sales now the thing about sales for events it’s incredibly stressful the reason it’s stressful is typically of your sales come in the first five to seven days and then 20 sometimes more 30 of your sales comes in the last like four or five days which means that dead time so you you want you have to get you got to kick ass right out of the right out of the gate so your first launch series you need to kick ass your first email launch series you need to do really well then there’s a fair bit of dead time and it feels we’re failing we’re failing we’re failing and then the last 10 days or so you get a wave of sales and it all comes down to the last minute and it is incredibly nerve-wracking and anything can ruin it for example a pandemic or if there was like a terrorist attack if there was um um um bad weather as simple as bad weather you’re [ ] and so you’ve been working for seven weeks now eventually in our case a whole year on this event and you’re screwed so it’s very stressful but the way that you can actually make more money and this is a something that i didn’t learn until later on for the tickets you actually want to charge higher than you than you can so let’s say you want to make a hundred thousand dollars and you want to get a thousand people to pay you a hundred dollars you always charge 250. and then you give more you give discounts in order to get to 100 average sale price and so you want in my opinion you want to be very generous with discounts but you want to charge a lot of money so it anchors it at a high at a high value yeah correct and one other thing that you want to do is you want to run this like an ecom site so for an ecomp site you say well i want to make 100 grand this month therefore i need to get um um you know a hundred thousand people to my a hundred thousand high quality people on my website of which three percent are going to convert i know three percent are going to convert because i’m constantly tinkering with my landing page the average sale value is going to be x dollars therefore this is how you do it now i just need to get people to my website that’s what a lot of conference people don’t do that’s what you should do um and it works quite well um and then finally time is one of the best ways to create sales so you have to give discounts early on uh and at the end and you in the goal is you want to have five three to five tiers of pricing so you want to have early early bird and then early bird and then middle bird and then you’re late okay seriously this is the last reminder you’re late like you because if you actually look so can you actually see um if you log into that doc i actually put a chart of my very first event uh from july of 24. you’re gonna see big spikes every single one of those big spikes was a new ticket tier ending and there’s a direct correlation between the amount of revenue that i made that day and the amount of like the tier ending and um me sending an email blast reminding people and i would email some two or three times a day in order to remind them wow and so so you were going to hack a news for traffic were you going anywhere else and is that where you would go today if you were doing it again well if i was doing a tech event if i was doing a tech event yes okay i would go to hacker news and what’s the secret because a lot of people will say um like you know you know when i post on hacker news you know i get you know i know traffic i get down voted i get what you know i get removed because it’s like well i would say the obvious or not the obvious but maybe obvious is well your content might suck um but i would say you i would actually write content or invite speakers who’s who i knew i could write about that would go viral on hacker news and also if you post 10 times only three times it will go viral but those three times you’ll get like on hacker news like 100 000 views and so that it’s like a hits driven business so you got to post a ton actually for it to work and so you i remember when you were doing your events so okay go sixty thousand hundred thousand i remember you were basically like yeah hustle con brings in five hundred thousand dollars of revenue and like three hundred thousand of that is profit or even more sometimes you know if i recall correctly so is that typical that it was so profitable or were you doing something different than the average event host yeah so when we would uh towards the third fourth event we could easily make seven hundred thousand dollars i think maybe let’s just say easily five hundred thousand i forget the exact but we’re making seven figures a year from events and yeah we could do 50 margins but the margins get smaller as we actually grew and so it was actually more profitable to do some of these smaller events but we did a few things that made us profitable the first i paid i’m now i’ll say it’s against the contract but i’m going to say it i paid casey neistat money to speak at hustle con which is no surprise it’s like you could just google speaking views but besides that i’ve had probably three four 500 people speak not once did i ever pay for another speaker not one time now what i think i did do a few times is i would pay for their flight but i would pay economy i had sam yeagen who’s the ceo of match.com or was who’s very wealthy i paid a 350 flight from chicago to san francisco and then maybe i think we got him a hotel but i think it was just a 350 flight and he actually we reimbursed him for that and he would email me to remind him oh you guys still owe me that 350. so we didn’t pay for any speakers other than casey neistat the second i use a [ ] ton of volunteers because there’s these kids and not necessarily kids but uh people who will email you once you have an event to volunteer there’s a whole crew of them and they want to be around you and uh they do the work they do the work and it’s fun for them it’s a lot of fun to be part of something that we would schedule it so they could go see some talks but they didn’t really even care about the talks they just wanted to be in the mix it was exciting for them and so these k these people love doing that i use volunteers for everything now the third part is actually important and this might get some flack but i would never work with or i would try my hardest to avoid union venues you want to avoid union venues and ticketmaster venues because if you work at a a lot of venues sign contracts with ticketmaster or something like that and you have to work with ticketmaster f that sorry ticketmaster you guys i don’t want to work with you um and so the goal is to work within some place that isn’t bogged down by or bogged down by a union because there were some places where i would say all right i want my volunteers to be at the door and they would say nope you have to have our union guy do it we charge fifty dollars an hour you have to have tenants right yeah it’s awesome so yeah so i remember you had the sickest venue in oakland um so right outside of san francisco and it’s the oakland whatever the theater what’s the theater called the parable theater this thing it looks so grand and i remember you were like dude guess how much this cost us i don’t know if you could say but it was amazingly affordable like to rent 10 or 15 grand 10 15 grand for the two days including all the people yeah yeah and um and so you know when you’re doing an event that’s bringing 700 grand like and you you needed a kind of like a notable nice big venue i thought that was i i thought that thing would be a hundred thousand dollars right like my wedding venue cost that much you know and it was like right just for me to get married it wasn’t even like a business you know it wasn’t like you couldn’t host things and there’s a few things which is we i preferred hosting conferences in places that typically aren’t used to hosting conferences so i would do it there i did at the brava theater in san francisco which i think i don’t remember exactly i’m pretty sure that was three thousand dollars to host an event there and i made a hundred grand there right so i would do it in venues that typically weren’t meant for conferences and the reason why is if you go to a hotel or if you go to a conference center they’re gonna charge you for the union stuff which is gonna add up really fast which is actually going to be probably 2x the price of the hard cost of the venue and they’re going to charge you something like 50 ahead for meals because you have to use their caterer and that’s something i would avoid like crazy instead i would find local mom-and-pop places and i would call them and i would say uh eight dollars a meal i need them prepped and ready to roll in in a box can you do that right um and i would get loads of cool people to do that now the thing is is that in my opinion the food not really that important when it comes to a conference some people will debate me and say oh it’s actually really important i got the cheapest [ ] i possibly could and i thought it was fun enough and then that morning or that night or the night before we would go to costco and we would buy every single danish that they had and we would rent a truck and bring it there and that’s how we did stuff i did it on uh really cheaply you don’t always have to do that but if you want to make a lot of profit early on in your career it’s a great way to do it you also had vendors that were like uh like i make a keto breakfast bar you’re like great you’re providing breakfast for everybody you know that’s your you’re paying me for marketing and you’re giving away free goods to my you know oh you make vitamin water or whatever like some you’re the you’re the startup that wants to be the next vitamin water well you need to be here and now that’s the third that’s the fourth point which is the way to make money is you get stuff for free so usually when i or when i first started i only typically had revenue from ticket sales that’s actually foolish as you grow usually 50 50 ticket and sponsors is your revenue early on i didn’t charge people that much in sponsor money instead anyone that emailed me that had free stuff uh they would say hey we want to sponsor you or i would email people and say hey instead of sponsoring us just bring your stuff i’ve got 300 great people who are going to be there will you come and bring 600 bottles of vitamin water or whatever it is and they would say absolutely i’m there and i would say awesome i’m not charging you any money i just want you to provide free stuff right and people did that we got someone to pay 17 000 for the lunches because all they did was hand out free stuff and they would just get a little bit of business from it and it would be worth it so we got tons and tons and tons of free stuff right so the point of i actually didn’t provide anything um and that is actually quite effective and then a few more points um a lot of times your sponsorship money is going to come in the second year because the first year you want to just invite the sponsors there and they’re going to see that it provides value and that you’re the real deal and you’ll follow through and they’ll sponsor you the second year you have to sell the second year sponsorships and sometimes the second your tickets immediately like the day of or or 24 hours after when you’re in the heat of the moment and they’re seeing everything wow this is great oh people are loving us next year are you in title sponsorship exactly and you want to do that right away and the big guys like the intuits and the microsoft’s of the world everyone’s coming out they’ll plan that cycle two years out right so you can actually book your two three four sometimes it’s it’s that crazy and you could get hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars from them right um and so if you’re gonna just so don’t worry about getting not getting sponsors the first time you’ll get them uh the second time if you do well and finally a few points on speakers so for content i didn’t pay anyone but what i would do is i would try to land the i would put all my work in early on to get the biggest speaker i possibly could right away right for example i convinced the founder of pandora tim westergen to speak and he was one of the first people i had the truth is i kind of lied about who else was coming i said all these people were all these other people were coming to speak none of them had had actually committed but once tim said yes then i went to all those other people and i told him tim was coming and they again said yes and it was way easier to land bigger name speakers because i got the whale anchor yeah so so and you’ve actually published your cold emails that you sent to speakers i think on either your blog or neville’s blog so if people search what do they search for to go find those i’ve i’ve copy pasted those many times already uh because i’m like this is great how sam did this yeah just um sam parr neville cold emailing yeah uh the the and you’ll see it and that stuff worked well and i don’t want to hear this nonsense if you’re starting this if you’re gonna start an event well you already knew everyone uh no i know everyone because i hosted the of these events that’s why i have a huge network not because uh i had them before i started this event yeah um and so i think so uh i think what you just said is like a mountain of gold i think people would pay you thousands of dollars to hear that how do you do this uh you know as a consultant or a course or something like that i think you you you gave them the goods for free on this pod which i think is amazing and that’s what we’re all about the other thing i would say is i think there’s it’s not just about making money doing this the way i look at this if i’m if i’m 22 years old and i don’t want to have like the traditional career this is how you bring luck to yourself you go host the party you go host to host the event that’s how sam built his world-class network that’s how sam made a bunch of friends that’s how we met you know like that’s that’s how these things happen you bring luck to you by going and taking a bunch of action and all you have to do is be the hustler who connects a bunch of dots and do it in a topic area that you’re interested in so if you’re super interested in like biohacking then you create the biohacker cons conference you don’t need to know anyone you just go figure out who are all the biohackers that i need to speak here how do i get in front of biohackers while i need to create content about you know biohacking and i need to get that in front of people using reddit or hacker news or some other source i need to collect emails then i need to keep telling great stories and at the end of each of those stories i need to say hey if you like this kind of stuff there’s a thousand people like you including these big names at this event come you know like buy your ticket now to join i think you 100 should do that and i think if you’re going to do it start planning now and it will change your life um and it’s actually not that hard yeah now last thing i’ll wrap up with this we’ve had ryan beagleman on the podcast i actually did you see that email i said that one so in 2017 i called people who worked at ryan’s company ryan’s company i mean i guess it was the other way around my company was basically ryan beagleman’s company for tech and business and entrepreneurship new news uh ryan beagleman ran this thing and started this thing called biz now media which was basically what my company is for real estate hustle but for real estate and so they did about 18 million dollars in revenue the year they sold which they sold for about 50 60 million dollars 75 employees their revenue was made up a third from media so a third from advertising a third from an event ticket sales a third from sponsorships the average revenue per event uh team member was around three hundred thousand dollars they did 250 events around the year before they sold with the average ticket price being eighty thousand uh eighty dollars and they wouldn’t do an event unless they could make eight uh ten thousand dollars in revenue most of the venues that they got were free and a lot of times programming was very short so an event would start at 7am it would kick off for an hour of breakfast schmoozing followed by a 90-minute session for panels and discussion and then hanging out and talking and then you’d be back in your office by 10 30. and it was very effective and that’s my final point about events which is uh the content actually not that important all the speakers do and all the content that you’re you’re going to have all it does is it brings the a particular like-minded person and the value is from that people or those people being there and the content is basically just a way to as marketing to get the right people and the way you know that that’s true if you go on youtube you can go watch all this talks from hustlecon like all the years they’re all on youtube and they’ll have like 2 000 views 3 000 views you would think oh if people are coming to hear these great speakers they’re willing to fly and pay you know basically it’s a thousand dollars all in to go have this experience if you’re up from out of out of town um which i think a lot of people are then wow you know 10 times more people should be just consuming the content for free from the comfort of their own home no it’s not what happens people don’t actually take the like it’s just like same thing with coursera they have harvard’s all of harvard’s courses online if you want the harvard education you can go get it for free right now online turns out people don’t want the harvard education they want the harvard label in the same way people don’t want the content from hustlecon they want the experience and the network and the kind of serendipity that can happen by going out there and getting amongst it with a bunch of other people and like putting yourself in that position people that’s really the value that you get uh oh sorry that’s what i should say that’s the value you’re providing to the person who’s deciding to come don’t fool yourself into thinking they’re coming to hear this mind-blowing content although there is this like sharad you put up where you say that’s why you’re coming and they say that’s why they’re going but that’s not really what you get out of it that is that is absolutely correct and uh i’m showing i i actually if you put this thing or you pull this thing up sean called i don’t really want to share this publicly but you can look at it it’s called event metrics all time i’ve listed 46 events that we’ve done uh and i list out how many people showed up how much revenue came from tickets and how much revenue came from there’s this one event series that we came up with called 2x it stands for like two x chromosomes meaning women have two x chromosomes and it was a evening event that we would host from nine pm until uh i don’t know uh whenever it ended or sorry seven pm to nine p.m and we would get a sponsor to pay for it and we would invite these people to come the first one had 400 people i’m pretty sure towards the end um we would get a thousand people so here’s one this one had 982 people coming we did 24 000 in revenue seven thousand dollars in sponsors thirty one thousand dollars in uh total revenue and then it looks like sixteen thousand dollars in cost frankly we probably didn’t even need to spend that much uh and we made fifteen grand in profit and then we would host that almost monthly in a variety of cities we would do la chicago yada yada yada one night it could make you 15 grand do that 12 times a year then you launch a paid community on top of that you got yourself a multi-million dollar business inside 18 months if you just rinse and repeat this it works very well while building a great network um and being kind of the hub in between all these different people the downside of course is that event planning [ ] sucks events are stressful and um like you know it takes years off my life every time i have to do an event so i hate events but i love this business model i love that you laid it out for the person who gets energy and like wants to do this right like for me the nightmare job would be wedding planner um but for some people they dream of being a wedding planner and so for people who find that fun they like that version of stress that flavor of stress i think you just laid out a pretty amazing playbook uh okay yes uh hopefully it’s a good plan uh someone can go do it and by the way if you just google the hustle 2x literally like the number two and then the word and then the letter x i think what’s it say we did we did uh in 2018 from that event series which is just i think we only want we did about 200 000 in revenue and 110 000 in profit in 12 months from launch to the first year it’s pretty good anyway that’s that that’s that’s information on paid events do you want to do one idea before we go uh i’m kind of excited about this yeah so yeah okay have you heard of this company future fitness future fit yes i have tried it i was i i tried it i was one of the i think i was one of their early users and they did a good job of onboarding me hand on boarding me you know nicely but the product didn’t stick with me well so i don’t know exactly how it ended up being but when i first signed up it wasn’t that unique but it was slick it was just you have a personal trainer so i pay them 100 a month a personal trainer made a plan for me and i would tell them what sports i cared about what i want to be good at and i would talk to them i think weekly about my athletic or about my progress that’s what it was when i first signed up but it was all tracked via a watch and they would send you an apple watch yeah so okay so i think i think it’s evolved a little bit so basically what future fit is is it’s your it’s a personal trainer it’s really like an accountability coach and that’s what i’ll call this bucket of ideas i want to brainstorm within uh of accountability coaching so futurefit basically says hey okay a personal trainer is like 100 per session you know so so let’s say it’s 150 per session in in big cities like new york or sf and then you know a gym membership is like 15 a month right so you have this like big discrepancy there where one is like one session is over a hundred dollars the other one a whole month is fifteen but then there’s something in between what these guys did was they said well look for 150 a month you’re going to get a fitness coach and they’re not going to come you know they’re not going to be with you you know like sort of spotting you while you do your bench press they’re going to be spotting the accountability of you actually working out so what they would do they would ask you about your goals then they would send you a customized workout plan based on your goals and in reality they just have a huge library of workouts it’s like oh guys you want to build muscle here’s a bunch of workouts to choose from you know a woman who wants to have tone but okay you know here’s a bunch of workouts to to use so the trainer sends you a workout that’s you know for you based on your goals and then they’ll kind of text you and be like hey did you get that workout in and they also connect to apple watch so they can kind of see if you did it and they can say hey great job or they can be like hey what’s up man like don’t don’t let go of the rope like keep keep going like we said we wanted to do this keep keep doing this and so i think this a very smart idea and a very smart business model which is basically the core thing that stops most people from being fit is the habit of fitness the habit of exercise yes if you work out with a trainer you can get more out of every workout but for most people the bigger problem is just sticking to the workout like schedule and routine and actually like not just feeling lazy and not going to the gym you know and so i like that they have basically accountability is the primary feature of this app and so i like that there is knowledge there is tech technique but it’s packaged around accountability so i was talking to ben and my right-hand man ben and he was like you just had a kid i’ll say how’s it going how’s baby life you know you getting any sleep he’s like actually we hired a sleep coach same model woman woman in texas and she what’s it called so she’s just like an independent person there’s not even like a service so we talked before about patel which is like my friend damian who’s starting this company to do this so he just used you know somebody he found that’s like known to do this in texas and so he just said uh great like you know here’s kind of what we’re doing today like here’s my here’s my current like routine you know we’d like to be getting some sleep and here’s my rough schedule here’s my wife’s you know rough schedule so we’d like to make it work we don’t want to have the baby cry it out so that’s like our constraints so they you know your coach basically downloads your goals and your kind of like your limitations your constraints i said great i got a program for you and i was like oh wow what’s her technique he’s like honestly it’s like not that much he’s like you know just he needs snap at this time specifically and like during these times he needs to stay awake so make sure you’re playing with him or you’re feeding him you’re doing something then don’t let him fall asleep and then like at this time you’re gonna put him to bed every single night and you know when he cries you’re gonna go in for this many minutes and whatever it’s like a little bit of a coaching on the technique but he’s like honestly it’s not the technique he’s like it’s just the accountability of like she asks us okay what time did he nap what time did he wake up today what time how did he sleep last night and because we keep having to report to this lady it forces us to not like throw in the towel and just be like oh man like i don’t know i give up just let him sleep if you want to sleep right now it’s like no our coach told us he needs to stay awake during these daytime hours so that he’s going to sleep well at night he’s like dude it’s amazing he’s now sleeping eight hours a night he’s two months old like life like the first month was so rough and the second month is so much better just with this coach he’s like and it’s not even like anything that we couldn’t have just googled a schedule he’s like it’s how having this woman who we’re accountable to to maintain the schedule is much more important than like just taking a schedule off the internet of a in the same way like you can go download a workout off the internet but this coach helps you stay accountable to actually doing those workouts so i thought so okay yeah let’s break this down a little bit let’s talk about what this could work so i actually use a service called uh do you have your phone on you yeah okay go to my mybodytutor.com my body tutor like a tutor like a like a you know like a coach tutor right look at that website how ugly is that oh my gosh so i’m on a 1990 i’ll just describe this i’m on what looks like a 1990s website it says at the very top it’s like this awful logo and then it says celebrating 2007 to 2021 14 years so that you know this has been around for a while it looks like it’s 2007. and so what it is it’s a guy named adam gilbert and he’s got a variety of people who are on the um on the payroll and you pay i was paying 500 a month and all i would do it was very simple i would every time i ate a meal i would take a picture and he would comment on it once a week i would do a 20 or 10 minute phone call and they would say how’s it going and the stress that knowing i was being watched right made me change my habits and i got and i lost weight it’s almost like when you’re writing in a google doc that stress makes you do it that’s what this is right when you see somebody else’s cursor there okay so so i just started using one because i was like oh when when you told me about this i started looking into like okay where else could you do this and i thought well it’s anywhere you have a goal and that the goal like it’s not that you need like some specific strategy that no one’s ever heard of it’s like no you kind of even know what to do it’s just helpful to have somebody who’s on your side in your corner supporting you and keeping you focused keeping you on track and so productivity i think is a big one so uh you’re probably like me you know you have like goals for what you want to do probably everybody listening to this is like you know i want to make five more sales this month i want to get five new clients or i want to grow 20 this month or i want to like grow my email list to 5 000 people or whatever it doesn’t matter what your goal is you have a goal i want to get promoted um so you have a goal and then like your is basically like sometimes you need tactical help like strategic advice but really what i what i’ve found for myself is that you just need pressure i need accountability i need to make each day count and if i just get like you know like 25 out of the 30 days a month to count i’m gonna actually hit my goals but if i’m like uh i kind of had an off day there i was distracted i went down this rabbit hole of doing this other thing oh i got stressed out or you know like whatever if i lose four of those days of like i didn’t actually like make the most of that day now i’m down to like 20 days out of the 30 and i’m like i’m off track i didn’t get my goal and like what’s that difference of like staying on track towards your thing and and off is like for me it’s accountability it’s why i work well with a co-founder because a co-founder helps you like every day you’re kind of focused on all right what do i need to do today do i get it done at the end of the day did i like make enough progress or not like that sort of thing and so i found this service so you can do this actually if you want uh anybody who’s listening to this so you can basically go and um it’s called what’s called we focus and it’s basically you and your coach and it helps you focus on getting to your goals uh for your professional goals so anything you want to do with your work or your projects and so you just text this number right it’s like i’ll put in the description it’s four three four four three four five oh five four seven six nine i’ll put it in the comments but basically it’s uh four three four five oh five grow is the kind of like the handle of it and you pay 150 bucks a month and you basically get a coach and the coach basically just texts you like at first it’s like all right what’s your goals for the month all right it’s uh it’s april what would make for a great april and honestly just that question is actually pretty powerful because you got to like articulate it you say something but then you realize like oh i want to really make progress on my book well what does make progress mean like you want to have a draft that’s like 100 pages would that be the goal and so they help you like actually set a good goal and then on a day-to-day basis they sort of like it’s kind of like the manager you need it’s like they kind of nag you enough to make you get it done but they’re not annoying this is and and this is wefocus.com there’s no app there’s no there’s no website there’s no app no it’s just a phone number it’s literally just a phone number and so they they have these like coaches wow okay so i can’t do it my friend was using it and so so i was like okay what’s the number so you just gave me four three four five oh five four seven six nine and so anyways uh they have like a wait list i think but you i got let in recently so so basically you pay 150 bucks and then what happens is the coach will basically say in the morning they’ll be like all right great like we said your goal was let’s say to you know grow revenue by 20 this month and you said you’re going to do that by like ramping up your sales efforts so it’s like all right cool hey hey you know it’ll be like hey sam like um like let’s get it today like you know what what would make today a great day like how what would be really satisfying at the end of the day if you’ve done what and you’re like i want to make like 10 10 sales calls like all right great and then like in the evening or the afternoon they’ll check in they’ll be like you know like remember keep you know keep the vision in mind we want to get there like go for it make sure you get those 10 in today at the end of the day they’ll still text you something they’ll be like you know hey did you get the 10 calls in you know if not you know what do you think held you up today let’s reflect on it or if you got it it’s like awesome like you know high five plus like think back to one of those calls where you really kicked ass like like what made it kick ass and so it just helps you and you can put in as much or as little as you want so if you just want it to be just check in with me once a day or once a week it’ll do that but if you want it to be like more reflective like i like it where it’s like all right let me let me think back on my day like what’s something i could have done better today so i actually disagree with you strongly on this one this is far too broad i would want to make it incredibly narrow so for example uh we guarantee you’re going to be a better writer or sorry the service to make you write more right and you have to log in every day and if you don’t get a thousand words you get um you get your coach yells at you like dude what the [ ] do you even want do you really actually want to be a good writer because you’re not writing um and so i actually would make it far more vertical specific for yes so relationship i think could really actually work you know what i would do another one i would just call it gratitude right i’m going to make you happier by so hey you’re going to probably yeah why didn’t you write here what you were thankful for this morning what the hell um you could show gratitude um what else we said you said relationships i actually don’t know how you would do a relationship one well i think i think i think for relationships it’s like you know people think relationship is when people say they need they want a better relationship what they’re really saying is uh [ __ ] my partner does these things and it annoys me why don’t they just not do those things and not annoy me and in reality to make a better relationships like you need to be the best version of yourself in the relationship and if your partner agrees to do the same for themselves like you’ll have an amazing relationship over time and so so what you would do for relationships is you would basically say awesome what is the best version of you you’re going to bring to your relationship and it would just coach you on you doing your part and not doing tit-for-tat measuring oh i’ll behave if my i’ll be great if they are great it’s like well that’s a recipe for failure uh it’s i’ll be great because that’s who i am that’s what works and in the context of being a great boyfriend great girlfriend great husband whatever okay so that could work for relationships so we’ve uh diet and fitness is easy i think that’s easy yeah you know you have to run you have to hit this mileage anywhere you have a goal so it could be like as narrow as people who are training for a triathlon that i know a lot of people hire like a marathon our marathon coach who helps them like structure their ramp up running and all that stuff so it could be as narrow as any it’s anything you have a goal on so the reason i like this one is because my i have like goals when it comes to work right and i know that if i can just if i can be a little bit more productive every single day if i can be a little bit better at my projects make a little more progress every day 150 in a month is like nothing compared to the value i create by actually doing better in my project so it’s anywhere you have a goal fitness diet relationships um and so you know whatever those goals are for people i think that accountability coaching is going to be a bigger thing because it’s like anywhere that there’s a like so for example relationships you have a relationship therapist or a couple’s therapy right so you have this thing you could go pay 150 an hour or you could read a 10 book well now there’s something in the middle it’s like a human on the other side but you don’t have to pay 150 an hour you pay 100 a month because they’re digital and they’re managing multiple clients this way in a light touch model same thing with fitness you could have a personal trainer or you could have a gym membership or this is the thing in the middle of your accountability coach so same thing with you know work you could have an executive coach who’s like you know thousands of dollars as you’re as your ceo coach uh or whatever your job is if you’re not a ceo but you have an executive coach or you could really read a management book well this is something in the middle it’s a way for you to be better at work with accountability coach so that’s the model i see here and i bet there’s a bunch of areas where this could apply um how big do you think future fit is so future fit says that they’re they’re trying to get to a thousand coaches this year they’ve raised 35 million dollars uh um series b so i think they’re you know they’re probably doing fairly well and they’re kind of in that peloton model right they just need like you know if you’re making 150 subscription per month it doesn’t take that much to be at 15 million dollars you know a year of of revenue doesn’t take that much to be a 150 million dollars a year like it is an achieve these are achievable numbers as you get to like 10 000 subscribers a hundred thousand subscribers type of thing i don’t know what they’re supposed to so the issue is churn though the issue is of course churn yeah because and i think that’s why the harder the goal um the more the churn this is the unfortunate part of this business is like fitness people fall off that horse and even if your product is great sometimes they just stop wanting to work out eat right you know so i think diet is going to have a lot of turn i think fitness can have a lot of churn um work i think we’ll have a little bit less turn but maybe you know still will have churn uh relationships i don’t know where that would fall but i don’t know i find this pretty fascinating so and i i i i i’m trying it for a few days i like it have you invested in future fit no i invested in fitness ai which is an ai version of it i wouldn’t invest in future fit because of the churn that was that would be something i would be concerned about um but i would love to own one of these companies yeah totally i for sure would like to own it um do we want to do one more no i gotta run um all right well dude by the way do you know that we get criticized for irish goodbyes we just end the podcast it’s our thing i actually do the same thing with my family too like if i’m talking to my mom or my sister like there’s no like okay well you know i’m gonna go run to the store now so it’s been great chatting no it’s like gotta go bike or i’ll just be like bye and i’ll just hang up the phone yeah i do the exact same thing whatever they know the deal and they can do the same right back to me you don’t even need to tell me why you need to leave if you need to leave you just yell by and you hang up before i reply i do this at gatherings too i don’t i actually don’t say goodbye i just walk um yeah i do that too because i think it’s i think goodbyes are pointless like what’s the point it’s just like i don’t know it’s just a lot of effort for something that’s uncomfortable for me to do and like uh yeah once i’ve decided i’m moving on to my next activity like i’ve moved on already it’s too late i’m here i’m there i’m not here anymore i’m gone right like i gave you the beginning in the middle i don’t need an n the ending’s stupid you just need the it’s it’s pointless um all right so that’s the end of the podcast no days off back