Episode of My First Million with Sam Parr and Shaan Puri.
Transcript
Note: This transcript was auto-generated from YouTube captions. It may contain errors and lacks speaker identification. A full Gemini audio transcript will replace this.
Kind: captions Language: en so i came on the show to talk about only two things and one of them is how is my investment strategy where after 20 years of of making like i don’t know like 60 investments i’ve now figured out exactly how to do what you’re just what you’re talking about you want to hear the breakdown i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be what i want to i put my law in it like no days off on the road let’s travel never look sean all right we’re live what’s going on um i did something last night i had dinner with uh andrew hey hi becca and uh so the bat i gotta tell people the background of the story because it’s fun uh basically shawn tweeted this thing got viewed by like probably six million people at the time he politely but he still said it that he thinks clubhouse is gonna like die it was polite whatever andrew chen who’s a a friend of mine is basically discovered clubhouse i think he was their first investor he loves the company he thinks it’s gonna be the biggest thing ever invested in um blocked sean invested in it black sean and uh sean po this sounds like silly drama and it is but it’s fun but but it’s fun uh sean blocked i didn’t block him or sean got blocked and he sean you posted a a picture of it and that alone got thousands and thousands of likes so anyway i just think it’s fun i’m a little caught in the middle so it sucks for me i’m not def i’m not actually defending i’m i’m actually defending both sides but i’m not i’m uh i’m staying neutral but i i think both both parties are actually right so did he block me because i think it’s fine at me or why did he block me he just says that he goes i have a rule that i just don’t like a lot of negativity on my twitter feed and also anyone that disrespects anyone that i’m associated with i just automatically block i don’t even reply which i think is fair i actually think that’s a good i’m on board with that i don’t think you’re disrespectful but i i it’s cool that he feels that way uh yeah that’s okay i i think it’s fine um i was surprised because i met andrew before and we were friendly um like you know before this i would have thought andrew is somebody who um you know if i see something interesting i would send it to him i’d be like hey this i think this is right up your alley and he’d be like cool thanks man and you know we if we saw each other at a at a meet-up or a party we would say hello like you know it was it was like that so i was surprised when he blocked me him and mark andreessen blocked me so uh both of them you know followed before and then went straight to block without like you know anything in between i i’m cool with that i’m sure you guys will all be i’m sure you’ll all be friends eventually you guys are all great i totally get it you know like if i respect them if i think someone’s just being a hater or like you know and for them i think they get it from all angles like they’re always fighting with what’s her name taylor lorenz and like you know different people in the media and [ ] like that or they’re probably just like dude i just like they’re probably just tired of people who are critics uh or critical and i think there’s a difference right there’s one person who’s a critic and this is somebody who sits on the sideline and they’re a professional criticizer um and i think there’s a difference between being critical which is to say hey actually like i’m trying to uh i’ve noticed some things or i’ve made some observations and here’s my opinion and i don’t know if i’m right or wrong i’m saying it as an opinion clearly and secondly i hope this is not true i hope they succeed and i was genuine about that that wasn’t like just some [ ] i put in there um and i’m clearly somebody who has been through it i’m not just like somebody on the sideline throwing rocks you know like there’s that thing that that quote uh that everybody loves that’s like you know some teddy roosevelt quote or whatever the man in the arena you know it’s not the critic who counts type of thing and i would say in this case you know i’m neither the man in the arena because i’m not doing this startup um nor am i the critic who just sits in the bleachers and you know boos you know i’m like the man who was in the arena got my ass kicked by the same competitor and i’m trying to yell to the man in the arena hey watch out this you know this this competitor is no joke and um here’s why here’s something if you try this move this might be a problem if you try this move this might be a problem i hope you don’t try those too the issue the issue is is that your thing you’re polite but criticism nonetheless reached so many people that it it you could actually impact the outcome i i i people might think i’m crazy i think that i think that tweet could potentially uh uh have a have a say i think this will have zero impact on the company uh in terms of that if anything it should have a positive impact or maybe the product people inside the company read it and they say okay you know what are the if you take the jokes and the zingers out and you just look at the actual like like the kind of the product observations what the challenges might be cool like do we think we have a good uh do we think this is true and if we do think it’s true do we have any good um counter attacks for what this problem might be and how we might actually solve this problem um i think that would be the positive somebody people keep sending me these charts because the google trends in the app store keeps showing that clubhouse going down like sharply like recently and they’re like oh the sean pury effect i’m like no no there’s zero percent chance i could do that and if anything most people haven’t even heard of clubhouse yet i haven’t had access to it so if anything a bunch of drama about clubhouse should actually be driving interest up in checking it out or googling it and trying to figure out what this what is the fuss about uh if anything but you know the other thing is i get there what the thing that might have pissed them off is like okay the tweet storm was a little over the top you know maybe unnecessary but uh okay you know forgivable uh but then you know the next day i go on cnbc and do a two-minute segment about it and they’re at that point you’re just like who is this [ ] guy and why is he on this crusade against clubhouse why is he going on tv talking [ ] and like my only response to that is uh hey if i get invited on the cnbc i’m just going to say yes like i know that sounds a little silly or selfish but like i don’t know put yourself in my shoes would you not want the opportunity to go on tv like i think that’s fine and i don’t think i said anything that was harsh or untrue to them so you know anyways i i could see them being annoyed i just got off the phone i just got off the phone with hubspot’s pr people because we were talking about something and i was like you guys see shawn on a squawk box or whatever it’s called and they were like yeah they’re like he killed it and i’m like yeah it’s it it made me happy that these like uptight they’re not uptight but i i i pegged them in my head yeah i pegged them in my head as being such that uh they’ve been on board with you like you didn’t do anything wrong but like you’ve made funny con you’re talking about kim kardashian’s butt and they were like it was awesome so i’m happy they’re on board uh so in this episode we’re gonna talk about big clout right but before we do that we have ryan beagleman he’s on the line he’s going to come on in a second before we do that i wanted to bring up two things with you the first thing do you remember a couple months ago when we talked about a carbon offset credit card so i have to learn exactly how this works but we discussed this of about this idea of basically taking a mastercard and just putting slightly different branding and slightly different perks and building a business a company that we uh didn’t know existed just raised 250 million dollars today building an uh a carbon offset credit card called aspiration i think it’s called no see that see that uh aspiration is the name yeah i just linked to it in our thing it’s called the la’s socially conscious bank challenger aspiration launches a carbon offset credit card they raise 250 million dollars from leonardo dicaprio orlando bloom but then they have some like actual real people like alan and co uh cool we we we uh we called that one yeah there’s actually i can’t oh wait a minute had they already raised i think they had already raised 100 million as well right did we miss that ten months months ago we uh our ignorance of not knowing about them also still shows that we predicted it even if it had already happened um i actually am investing in another one i’ll send it to you it’s stealthy right now but when we can talk about it we’ll talk about it the founder started a media company actually before this uh grew it huge sold it coming back to market with a credit similar similar idea a credit card where the rewards the perks and the branding are around a different part of your lifestyle and not like you know the generic which is like cash back or travel rewards travel points you know go stay in a marriott for a fourth night free um and like what these carbon guys are doing what from what it sounds like is that for somebody who is eco-conscious you know specifically eco-conscious they would rather make their impact and have the rewards be something that is helping the environment then get that fourth night at the marriott and the this guy that i’m investing in um he’s got a different one do i know i don’t know if you know him personally but you know of the thing that they built before this and so you’ll you’ll like it so uh it’s a very similar idea can i send it to you and we can we can do it and then we can talk about it when he launches it i’m in let’s just do that love i’ll bring to you the stuff which i brought i showed you two cameras are you gonna join i’ll we’ll show each other stuff and then let’s just talk about it on here because i think people like that so far every time we’ve talked about investing people have liked it because you get to hear about a new concept we’re not just saying oh that’s neat we’re saying like no i put money into this that’s a certain level of conviction and skin in the game and then um also there’s like the people who are interested on the investing side which is like cool so like how do you how do you invest what do you decide on what are the check sizes what what type of returns do you expect what type of returns do you end up getting what were your big mistakes people like that type of [ ] uh and i’ll say i guess i can say no i put 10 grand into toucan and then we did a syndicate where we put in 150 total which i kind of shocked me i thought it was going to be like 50 000. um but i did 10 on that one of my own money yeah that’s cool yeah i think that’s interesting one also deciding what’s your what’s your basic check gonna be like i um like you decided 10k the first few angel investments i did were basically i think 25k and then i like randomly did like a 50k one and then i just felt like oh [ ] i you know that 50k felt like a significant like a more significant bet than the 25k ones did to me the psychologically and so then there’s like there’s a math behind how do you want your portfolio structure and all that [ ] and then there’s the psychology around you want to bet an amount of you want to be bidding an amount of money that will matter to you where you care and you’ll track it and you’ll do the work so not too little but also not too much where you become emotionally wrapped up in the outcome which you cannot control and is you know subject to all these different variables anyways i was going to do and actually we could bring ryan on yeah ryan cameron because he was telling me about his he was telling me about his buddy who i don’t know if he wants to say his name about what his process was and and we could talk about in a second but we’re going to talk about the guy who hired an analyst ryan but uh my um my uh philosophy right now with angel investing is i was gonna do uh maybe a quarter of a million to three hundred thousand dollars in the next 12 months and i was gonna do it in increments of ten to fifteen thousand dollars gotcha my oh my quick reaction to that is that that’s too many deals a too small of an amount you know you’d rather do i think because because just to do that like okay let’s just do the math real quick so that means you’re basically saying yes to 30 deals to say yes to 30 deals let’s you know about how many deals do you think you’ll need to what percent hit rate do you have or acceptance rate so from a deal you see you either look at a pitch deck you meet a founder uh you take a meeting to saying yes you don’t want that to be like a hundred percent you don’t want it to even be 50 probably what do you think just for you just off top your head spitballing what percent of your deals do you think you’ll say yes to or do you want to be saying yes to 30 okay that’s a i think that’s still probably fairly high but okay let’s say the phone off the phone call right okay so of all phone calls people who make it to the phone call you want to do 30. right so let’s just let’s just totally no i’m not saying i’m not saying i want to do i’m saying that yeah but i also think i say no to most everything that i’m emailing okay so let’s say let’s just take the meetings part okay so that means you know for for doing 30 deals you’re going to need to take you’re going to need 90 at least of those one hour meetings um to to get to that hit rate and so 91 hour meetings that’s 90 hours of kind of like founder meetings and so it just ends up being a lot and then now you have 30 deals to like add value to to help to make intros for to do all those things so it ends up being a lot of maintenance and a lot of vetting for very small ownership and uh small checks but it is a good way to just see a bunch of [ ] so i like the strategy from that point of view what do you think ryan you want to hear the breakdown well can you first tell me the story can you tell the story of of the person you know who what what they did well let me i can i explain this theory and then i’ll tell and i’ll tell you how that plugs into it yeah so i think that the the filter for me is actually turned into i think there’s an icky guy for investing so you know there’s the icky guy concept i know you guys are both familiar with you know you choose your career based on what you love to do what you’re good at doing or what there’s a market need for right and at the intersection of those three things is like exactly the thing that you will you’ll be best at and enjoy well my epiphany looking back on my like 60 or some odd like angel and real estate investments is that the ones that generally perform well are the ones that are at the intersection of what i’m naturally curious about where i’m well networked and where there’s good fundamentals so it’s a similar like icky guy right concept where and so my main my main filter for for making investments now is is this something i’m actually sincerely fascinated by i’m regularly reading about and i’m well networked in like so for example like i made some investments like you know in healthcare which i don’t know [ ] about i’m not well networked in and yeah the fundamentals are amazing like healthcare is only growing in america if you know costs are rising whatever like but those have not been predictably looking back like those have not been as good as say my investments in coinbase warby parker like uber and like real estate investments where i was well networked i was really interested for a long time and the fundamentals were good so what do you guys make of that so i’m a framework guy i like anytime somebody has a framework or a thought process around how they do what they do the only thing i would say is that for me whenever you see something growing really fast and you see that the fundamentals actually make sense um it’s very easy to get the other two to work so for example i can get really curious about something when i see something working extremely well i’m like wow what the hell is this and then i can curiosity can follow it doesn’t always have to lead for me and the second thing is well networked what i found is that like the whole kind of like value-add side of investing is sort of a load of [ ] um you know i agree i don’t whenever whenever we raise money i was like i don’t want to talk to you ever again unless you’re just having fun with you like we’re just and that’s hanging out maybe i’m just bad at it but what i see and i do the same thing by the way when i talk to founders i’m like look here’s what i’ve done in my life uh if any of that applies to what you’re doing i’ve been through a bunch of [ ] i’ve done a lot of these steps that you are about to do so i think i could probably help and secondly like i’m particularly good at these three things and by the way like i think your messaging sucks and i think i’m good at messaging you know yeah you know i think i can do the the pitch better than you your deck is a little bit weak i can help you with your deck those are true in reality the amount of times that gets taken up and actually has some material impact it’s just so low well i i i’m not saying i’m using my network to help the investments i agree i rare i rarely help the people i invest with materially i’m saying i got in early to say because of my network yeah and i i can’t get in early like i tried getting an early you know to say like uh spacex like i wasn’t well networked then now i became better networked around spacex later and i ended up investing later but like there’s certain areas where i have an unfair advantage to getting investments right and by the way we should introduce you so ryan uh you know you were part of summit you’ve been on the pod before many times i think uh built a media company sold it was one of the co-founders of summit summit series they bought them out and did crazy [ ] uh and i would say you know one of the more well-liked guests on the pod because has real business knowledge and also knows how to deliver it in a way that’s entertaining to people so a good sense for entertainment so uh excited to have you on you have been infected by this mind virus can we just talk about it or do we need to like i feel like talking about anything like a big cloud cloud can’t even enter my brain right now i honestly have canceled almost everything on my calendar because big cloud is so addictive and so much fun and so lucrative so far on paper that i just can’t i can’t talk about anything my wife wants to throw me out of the house right now like so the good news here guys is that i signed up for big clout but i pretty much only signed up because ryan just called me and said uh i want to talk to you about this sign up i i don’t really know what it is so you guys could talk about it and i’ll be the one asking the questions on behalf of the audience right like an idiot so let’s take a stab because it’s kind of new and foreign and most almost i would say 99 percent of the people listen to this are not active on bitcoin yet um let’s each take a stab at it ryan and see if we can get to a simple explanation of what the heck it is so here’s my here’s my simple explanation sam big clout is basically like a stock market for people so me and you and ryan and anybody else uh we each have like a little coin a price where you could buy some of our stock let’s call it um and so people are going on there and they’re using bitcoin to buy our stock because they believe that we’re going to continue to get more popular and our reputations are going to grow and that owning a piece of our limited um coin uh the you know if i own 10 of your your stock basically uh i feel good about that because i think in the next 10 years you’re going to be getting even more popular right so it’s a way to bet on people and so that’s the f which we which we’ve talked about a lot we love this we’ve we’ve looked at humanity like what we talked about before which is like is it for income sharing is it for x is it for y is it for z right now it’s literally for nothing and so the reason this is cool right now is because uh nobody knows who’s behind it they’re kind of like being stealthy about it people know but nobody has publicly outed who’s who’s behind it um i do know the name of people behind it but i know people who know the person people i trust say they know who it is and they because i asked they were like yo i’m buying your coin are you gonna are you gonna actually use big cloud or not i was like well i don’t know is this like a scam it kind of looks scammy to me and they were like yeah i thought so too because it’s kind of the the secretive way that they’re going about it but actually i know the founders they’re like legit people from the tech scene they like kind of have a reputation in our circles um and a bunch of the big name tier one vcs are involved in it now that doesn’t mean it’s not going to fail it doesn’t mean it’s not us like maybe something unethical is going to happen or that’s going to get hacked or who knows any any number of bad things can happen but it’s not random guy and you know not nigerian prince is kind of the the main thing that that i’ve heard now you you guys you’re forgetting a major part here which is if you go to big it’s bit clout c-l-o-u-t dot com you can’t actually do it you don’t have a password it’s all you need a password so you guys are forgetting it’s inviting only right now and you have to have this you know similar to clubhouse and superhuman like you know this is one of the techniques in silicon valley now to build hype and get early adopters to want to in is to not let them in and then make it so they can only get in if they have the secret secret codes so okay right that was my my attempt what would you change about it how would you describe it differently yeah i know i think you nailed it i mean it’s a social currency platform i think you put it more simply you can bet on people so like take sam so i called sam last night i’m like dude what the heck are you doing how are you not on big cloud yet you need to get on here you need to create your profile so he goes on he creates his profile i put in two thousand dollars into into this at the same part on big cloud i then you know i i then watched it overnight and when i woke up this morning i had already made like five six thousand dollars what and so yeah so let’s walk through me and sam’s coins so can you just pull up actually the site’s down which which is sort of problematic so that’s a that’s a bit of an issue it’ll come back up but it’s getting hammered with traffic i think so last ice last you saw ryan what was coin trading for and do you remember my market cap i don’t i’d so it’s so annoying in the sights down because i was hoping to have it ready but i want to say you you were pretty legit first off i just want to say like you’re you’re you’re trading at a at a relatively high number relative to like your fame and like your twitter handle you were which which i what i’ve noticed is people who are known in the crypto world disproportionately are doing well on the platform so like like i bet yesterday on chuck norris and i’m because because part of my strategy is to buy people who are trading at a cheap number relative to like the following they have on twitter or instagram and like [ ] norris was trading at like but you know he’s got a huge like he’s a big following he’s obviously pretty famous even though he’s like you know a scene celebrity but i don’t get any of that money you do so you can set whatever percentage you want to take of the of the coin that people invest in so the default is 10 so if i buy like a thousand dollars worth of sample i believe the way the math works is uh you’ll take 10 of that in coin and so what’s cool about that is like as you become more famous as you build up a reputation and as you keep your reputation you know good in the public eye like in theory your big cloud uh market cap will grow and you’ll take 10 of that now what i’ve seen some people do who have money like you sam is they they they set their percentage down at zero instead of 10 which is the default because they don’t want to discourage people from buying their their coin and then they just buy their own coin and then they bet on themselves which is something oh my gosh as okay i saw this a few days ago and i saw oh wow some people have bought like i think somebody had bought ten thousand dollars worth my coin um and basically i was trading for almost two thousand dollars per coin and my my own holdings that they give you through your i don’t know if it’s like a founder reward or like a a ten percent vig you get on every buy or something like that my own holdings if i claimed my account i had sixty thousand dollars worth of my coin ready for me so the the the genius of their model is this wait you had six months my own coin what i what they basically what i had gotten from the the way that the site works if i if i verified my account so here’s how it works this is this is the genius the growth hack that they have which is very very smart and um so what they do is they pre-made all of our accounts they took the top 15 000 twitter accounts i think and they made profiles for all of them they made coins for all of them immediately and then they let some people in with bitcoin to go buy up whoever they wanted so people start buying coins and of course every time you buy a coin the default is a ten percent if i buy a hundred coins of yours ten of those coins go to you and 90 come to me so there’s like a like the brokerage fee goes to the creator themselves so what this did was you’re elon musk you’re naval you’re you’re you know on a smaller scale us um and you you go on the site and right now it basically says cool if you log in and verify that you are you you you are sean vp on twitter you get to claim your coins uh your coins are sitting there in this account so i have a 60 like last time i checked this was a few days ago but before several friends bought my coin so i might have more now but i had a 53 000 uh bounty just waiting for me all i had to do was connect it to my twitter account and tweet out hey i’m on bitcloud you know like uh come buy my coin or whatever if i did if i know i didn’t do that because at the time i didn’t know is this legit am i promoting a scam and so i went did some background checks i asked a few people who i knew were buying my coin i said what you know is this real or is this not like ryan you know and others and so um and so that’s how simple it is so so think about that mechanism right now i have cornered the sandpark market if you look at sampara i are his biggest holder um and and i plan to buy more sandpark as soon as the site comes back guys listen it wasn’t like it wasn’t i can’t tell you what’s like the red pill blue pill phrase what’s the what’s the what’s the pill that you take what your perception is completely changed i can’t go back okay maybe i’m just like a blue pill guy here but like it wasn’t that long ago that i was so poor that i would put two pieces of pizza into one whole foods box and so i could just like only pay for one or where i would like eat half the food out of my container before i weighed it uh like it wasn’t that long ago that i was that poor where i where i was stealing food from the grocery store now we’re talking about sean just logging in and being like oh beep bop boop fifty thousand dollars in my account yeah does this stuff freak you out this kind of freaks me out no it does not freak me out at all i think it’s awesome that i could log in and get 50 000 i think that’s cool now okay here’s some of the criticisms right uh and this is where sam your [ ] detector is about to like you know fly around the room you’re about to raise your eyebrows all the way to the moon when you hear this which is you could transfer money in and you could buy coins but there’s no withdrawals right now you cannot watch so i could go in and verify i could claim my fifty thousand dollars what i can’t do is put that in my bank account um that’s a feature that conveniently is not available and not built yet now they are going to do it um the the main thing for them is that um they say oh we’re building it it’s not ready yet in reality my theory is basically if you allowed people to immediately come in grab 100k grab 50. if i can come and grab 50k withdraw it out of the system it’s going to kind of crash the network it’s not going to like the whole system kind of fails there’s this there’s this theory about sort of um you know like one of the reasons bitcoin is so valuable is because the central philosophy of the religious bitcoin holders is to hold the coin uh if you’re selling out of it the price drops and so what they want right now is for everybody to hold their hold coins so that the network can get big enough get enough strength and then once it’s bigger and more popular you can add liquidity and people can trade it and now and it won’t just completely crash the system so do we just have so much money going around right now that we have to invent okay so here’s okay so let me explain to you because i also was like what the hell is this and then i was sent the one pager and i want to actually read to you guys the one pager pdf uh this might be a little boring a pdf but honestly when i read this so i talked to ryan i don’t know like 40 minutes ago on the phone before this podcast i was like yo okay we’re coming on i’m excited about big cloud i heard a little bit about it but i haven’t had time to look at it i just had a kid like i haven’t had a chance to go in and kick the tires and he was like dude this is like the most you’ve ride you said this right you’re this is the most addictive thing since for early facebook for you craziest thing i’ve i’ve been i’m like all my friends have been up all night like one one’s in alaska heli skiing another one is in utah like we’re all texting all night hey who’s buying chuck norris has anyone figured out like oh i just 10xed on gwyneth paltrow like a number a number of my friends like guys who worked for me at summit who have like maybe 50 000 saved have put in like a quarter of their net worth and in the last like four or five days of five to 10x their money right like but they can’t get anything out they can’t get enough they get it out yet but i i contacted the founder of a pretty major um like crypto hedge fund and he assured me that they bet quite a lot on this and that he’s confident that they will there will be a way out plus the founder also said eventually there’ll be an exchange you know where you could sell it um it’s just the easiest thing i’ve seen let me give you both how do i make sampar the game style yeah well first of all calling it game stock is perfect that’s all right you’re already memeing yourself stop yeah whatever so okay so here’s the okay because when we were talking on the phone ryan i was like so you’re buying my coin great what what’s the reason why would you want my coin what does that do for like i get that if i get more popular in theory my coin could get more popular but that assumes more people will want to buy it why would they want to buy it what are they getting out of this it’s like well then they think you’re going to get even more popular then the next person will want to buy it right so there is definitely like a greater full theory that underlies this whole thing which is that i’m buying it today because i think somebody else is going to come buy this tomorrow either because the creator i’m buying is going to get more popular or big cloud is going to get more popular in reality right now both are going to happen and um and so so i think it’s actually a good bet even if you know going in that this is greater fool theory this is uh i’m i’m looking to pass this to the next guy and make a lot of money before the music stops so i think that’s the skeptical way of looking at it now let me tell you the like why this actually might be a thing long term and i’m going to read to you from the pdf um what they say this is okay so sam i’m gonna read read this to you and you just tell me paragraph by paragraph is your belief going up or down okay um where did you find this i just googled bit bit cloud yeah i’ll send it to you it’s a white paper where are you guys getting this bro we’re connected on the inside not connected enough to know who’s actually doing this but connected enough to know the people who know the people um all right so big cloud is a new type of social network that lets you speculate on people and their posts with real money as built on a blockchain okay cool then it goes uh it’s a fully open source project um there’s no company behind it just coins and code so then it says um let me skip to the part about creator coins what are creator coins everyone has a coin every profile on the platform gets its own coin that you can buy and sell these are crater coins uh you get one you get you can have your own crater coins just by creating a profile and they already pre-created a whole bunch of profiles because you know i didn’t do it but my my creative coin exists okay then i had to make mine then it says you can buy your favorite person’s coin to buy someone else’s to buy someone’s coin you just go to their profile you click buy for the top 15 000 influencers on twitter it’s preloaded into the platform um okay cool so now uh then it says tweet to claim your profile the owner of a profile can claim their profile by tweeting out their public key this will give them full access to their account as well as the percentage of their founder rewards which is that’s what i was talking about my 50k that’s sitting there for me that’s my founder reward for claiming my account now the genius of it is by me tweeting out like i have a big incentive to tweet this out right because i get access to my fifty thousand dollars so they’re basically kind of like paying me fifty thousand dollars to tweet out about big cloud and if enough of the and the bigger you are the bigger your reward and so they’re gonna get a lot of big people to tweet this thing out which is going to create this like enormous hype cycle okay so then it says what are creator coins useful for so this is where it starts to become interesting it goes there’s a new asset class that’s tied to the reputation of an individual for example let’s say elon musk succeeds in being the first person to land uh land on mars put a person to mars his coin price should theoretically go up because he will be world renowned for it um and if in contrast he makes a racial slur during a press conference his coin price should go down because his reputation takes a hit his popularity uh goes down so you as a trader can make money by buying and selling the ups and downs of speculating on a person’s future popularity okay so then it says state what could you use the coins for um so today it’s just about buy and sell but in the future let’s say that you know right now for example i think craig clemens is my biggest coin holder he has like i don’t know ten fifteen thousand dollars in my coin ryan’s gotta run how much of my coin you got what um i think i bought like three four thousand dollars so what can i do to reward the people who own my coins so that more people want to buy my coins so one is a stakeholder meeting so you can basically say okay i’m gonna do an ama or a q a for anybody who owns over you know 100 of my coins at whatever so what do you tell them like hey everyone i wanted to give you an update on the next quarter i’m thinking that i’m not going to say anything just exactly racist but i am going to do that i am going to film someone committing suicide which might make me think you’re not going to totally about your own popularity you’re saying okay for my super fans who want access to me you want more access like let’s say you know like for example our friend andrew wilkinson has done a thing where he says cool buy this expensive thing for charity and you get to do a lunch with me or you get to join this ama’s q a exclusively with me and 25 people who pay the five grand to this all the proceeds go to charity it’s that same idea if people want to do a want to ask you a question or whatever so here’s a simpler version right that’s you get to attend a private meeting for people who own x amount of my coin the other way is to say look i get a bunch of spam in my inbox every day people email me people dm me and literally this is true there’s so many of those and i don’t respond to of them and unfortunately some of the good ones just get mixed up in all the random junk that people send me so here’s the thing i have an inbox the inbox is a has a contract that basically says anybody who um if you want to message me it costs you five coins um and my coin has a real price so you you can do that by either having a huge amount of my coin or going and buying some in order to message me and i will respond to everybody who rep who sends me this paid message through this channel right so now i can have an inbox that has a price with it or i can prioritize it based on sort this by my biggest coin holders because those are my vips i want to talk to them first i want to give them replies first another another idea they have uh sponsored posts so i can have an inbox that basically says you can pay me you can you can buy a certain amount of my coin and i’ll retweet your thing um and so it’s just a simple like you don’t need an essential middleman agency to set up like these paid promotion deals it’s just i just set a price or people just bid a price and i just look at it and i say okay i’ll take 100 coins 100 of my own coin for posting this thing i don’t mind i actually like the thing you told me to post and then the last one like there’s an only fans version of this where cool if you have this man if you pay this much coin of my coin per month you get exclusive content the last one is what they call money likes so let’s say uh like let’s reimagine the like button so instead of just being able to smash like on everything let’s say that it costs a tiny amount of coin to like something so for me putting out a good post like let’s say that clubhouse thing i did that went viral today all i got was fame i didn’t make any money off the fact that seven million people saw that thing twitter made money but i didn’t make any money so in this case if i put out great content that goes viral like my my clubhouse thing then every person who’s hitting the like could be basically buying in order like they’re buying a micro amount of my own coin and so i earn for posting good content um in that way and by the by that person buying my coin by hitting like they’re actually sort of investing in in me right because they hit the like let’s say it cost one sean coin to do it they bought one sean coin they hit the like button because they like my content now let’s say i keep getting more popular they still own that coin so our both of us have an incentive to do that those are some of the ideas what do you where i am right now is like it’s there’s one of three things happening one either my iq is just low enough that i can’t keep up with you guys when you discuss this two um i’m just out of touch and like it’s happening where like when my wife started getting a job at facebook her dad was like why do you need it why do they need all these people it’s just a web it’s just a website like am i am i getting am i getting out of touch or three um this is [ ] and i’m right well can i can i give you a simpler use case so right now i’m uh you know i’ve been doing executive coaching i think as you guys know and i’ve been i’m coaching the the founder and ceo of morning brew and i think we should pick austin reef and alex lieberman a morning brew against the sam at the sam par on big cloud i’m i’m going to buy coin in all of them and let’s see who can become the bigger market cap in the next 30 days but i don’t want to do that like i’d wouldn’t it be better if i just spent time in like making money on [ ] that i own in the entirety of but these this is like i thought these guys are like like your nemesis this is a newsletter war between the hustle and the morning the final i’ve cashed out dude i’ve won like i like like i i have everything i need i’ve i’ve i have i’ve won my game as far as i can tell austin is crushing you on big clown in terms of his market gap right there there you go now those competitive juices are starting to flow he’s like i don’t care but if you’re saying he’s crushing me at a game i don’t care about i start to care about the game a little bit no i have the game i care about is my bank account and what time i could wake up in the morning that’s the rest of my days your popul no that’s not my big account what how many houses you’ll be able to scenario one these guys never build a way to cash out this whole thing is a scam all the smart people that are involved in it are wrong cool there is a percentage chance that that is true i don’t know what that percentage is might be one percent might be 50 let’s just take that off the table because if that’s true then yeah there’s no discussion it’s stupid and useless if if you’re buying if you can only buy in but never sell out like you know what what is this you know robin hood like you can’t you can’t do that so here’s the the other side of it let’s say it is liquid where you can trade some of your coins for actual cash if you want it or bitcoin if you want it um but people are going to be betting on hey this podcast going to keep getting more popular sam’s going to keep getting more popular he’s going to keep doing more things i’ve seen his twitter account growing he posts awesome content i want to get on on the ground ground floor of sam and they start buying your coin because they want to hold a piece of the sampar popularity like clout score and they’re they believe more people are gonna buy it so now more people do start buying it and um your stock goes up your stock goes up because you sold the hustle and then this podcast hits number one on the charts and more people hear about it and then we do some viral thing and then that goes viral you get more popular there now what but sean do you actually want this yeah you actually want yes people betting i’ll say something i like about it is i’ve always kind of tried to be an early adopter of certain things right that i was excited and like and i would tell all my friends but i had no way of like riding the wave with the person i was popularizing i would go i’d be like yeah you really should check out this awesome musician and then they would just get really famous and like they would get way richer and in fact i often couldn’t even talk to them anymore because they became too big a deal to even you know return my calls and like i would have liked to have been like on the ride with them like financially sam i met you before you started the hustle right and i was like this guy’s the [ ] this guy’s you know totally switched on he’s a dynamic dude okay if you could if i could have just bought stuck in you and not bet on like for example i had the opportunity to invest in the hustle the media company i was like well i don’t know if this is gonna be like this humongous billion dollar company or what i don’t know if this fits my profile or whatever i don’t know about media but i was but i was believing in you the whole time and if i could if i could have just bought sam and owned sam for 25 years that’s something i want to do i think that you are going to become a hitter and you’re already on your way to becoming a hitter and if i could have done that from the beginning or like you know we’ve talked about the founders of calm i was buddies with them early on now calm is so big that i feel guilty even hitting them up to go hang out with them because i’m like ah they just everybody wants their time they’re busy with their you know huge company what am i gonna do i really wanna go hang with them now so you know i’m a fan from afar now but at the time if you said that you could buy alex too and you could buy michael actin smith you could buy their uh their their coins i would i would bet in all my friends coins right i and i do with my time but i don’t ever get to benefit financially from spotting future stars today i uh that was a good speech i think that i’m a little bit uh on board now dude i feel the exact same way there’s so many entrepreneurs including uh the guys at com that i met through summit early on and for whatever reason i didn’t persist in getting didn’t get the ability to invest in their company you know they it was mentioned i i didn’t i didn’t like you know i missed the email a friend of mine heard about it i wasn’t at the right event when they were raising i met him three months earlier whatever now i can actually bet on these people it’s it’s i don’t know well this is why there’s two there’s two huge problems is the fact that you’ve just put tens of thousand dollars on this website and you get you can’t get the damn thing to [ ] turn off right now for this entire podcast this podcast has been on for 45 minutes and it’s it says big big clout is under brief maintenance all funds are safe thank you for your support it’s a black screen with a wrist yeah like aerial 14 size font yes it looks like a terrorists or kids right i remember when facebook first came to my college and i was like we were one of the first colleges and i remember like calling it was really fun that this is the first time i felt like that in a long time that’s why i wanted to come on the show and talk about it but there’s two major differences which is you didn’t have money on facebook and two you you knew a little bit about the background and who made it we’re looking at this anonymous thing that isn’t working and you have money on it that’s a little nerve-wracking and also you can’t even get your money back out if you want it by the way sam do you know how many of my like angel investments went to like i had no clue someone was like you should try like this guy said from this person then you should throw 50k in this thing and i was like what the least i could do could i do 10k okay cool here’s 10k and you know so over i think now 25 of those or so have gone to zero but a few of them pop so i’m looking at this like an angel investment right like i’m looking at this as like one in ten but i get it i’ll do it i’ll do it but i’m not gonna like i think that people like youtube need someone to criticize you because like just everything on paper that we’re doing here it’s just like this sounds like a horrible total scam and i think you should be optimistic about it and i’ll definitely dabble in it so here’s the other thing right like let’s let’s say you said something earlier like facebook didn’t have money in it like i think you met i think what you meant was you didn’t have to put in tons of money to bed and facebook you could just start using the thing and it’s kind of like you know the risk like brian just said that that his uh normal young friends had a quarter of their life saving so okay so so here’s the part that i think is exciting and a lot of people have talked about this this is the first attempt that it actually clicked with me and i’m like oh this might actually work so there’s a whole bunch of people that since crypto came out that were like oh my god we need to take the social networks and we need to convert them into crypto networks basically what we need is why don’t like why does facebook and twitter and instagram why do they make all the money and we do all the work we make the content we like each other we put our attention and our time into viewing the content viewing the ads and um advertisers spend all the money and they don’t you know they’re hoping to make a return on the other side but the users who do all the work to on these user-generated content platforms reap only social value no financial value and so a whole bunch of attempts were made people tried to make steemit which was like reddit but like instead of the karma being kind of funny money it was like real money you know type of thing but never took off and uh but the fundamental always did make sense which was if you did get on a platform early and you were one of the people that helped make it big why don’t you ever get any reward for that if you were one of the first uber drivers first airbnb host first power users on instagram you know like what is it worth for those people that are on clubhouse today that are making content you know freaking 24 7 and trying to make clubhouse successful and they’re they’re not the investor in clubhouse it’s you know andrews horowitz and like easy and kevin hart and [ ] and so um so it’s easy he’s not an investor but because he’s dead one thing i love about this that you’re saying is when i got into some of these you know awesome investments like uber i couldn’t share them with anybody i’d call my mom and be like you really um sorry but i i can’t even get you i couldn’t get you in you know and now it’s like i feel excited i wanted to come on the show and like share it with the listeners and like share it with trends because i was like [ ] everybody as soon as i get this password and as soon as the site’s back up like we can all actually we’re like as soon as the site works and as soon as they open it and as soon as withdrawals happen this is totally gonna be sweet but until those three primary fundamentals work this is garbage i say i was rightfully pointing out the obvious oh no it’s very risky right now it’s very early days by the way we need to talk about the investment strategy because the next thing is once you get on you become addicted and you’re like what is the strategy and i have like five strategies oh yes well can we talk about your friend who can we he’s talking about where are you investing strategy by the way i know i know but can we talk about this because i think this is pretty interesting i won’t name names but can i say details of the story right i’m going to so you had a friend who sold a business and it was uh amongst like your everyday person massive home run um but he the amount of money that he made was not enough that you would go and do what he did and he hired two full-time people to invest his money yeah and we’re talking like potentially like digit millions of dollars which again is a lot of money but not enough to like have two people on staff full-time to invest your money and that’s what he did and ryan said that it ended up being a massive success even though you thought it was a stupid stupid idea and it totally worked yeah i mean the thing that blew my mind is a friend of mine made a similar amount of money to the money i made selling my media company and i i did not think i had nearly enough money to build what you know is called like a family office right like i i need at most i’ll hire a wealth manager i’ll pay them like a half a point of the money under management they’ll invest my money in stock and whatnot and my friend instead hired two hedge fund guys and analysts and like a full like a real like associate vice president like a senior guide at like a hedge fund and is paying them like you know i don’t know like a half a million collectively in salary a year which is like a very high percentage of his money and and giving them as well carried interest and upside and i at the time this was in 2016. i thought that’s the craziest thing i’ve ever heard from the world’s smallest family office and what what he now he what was smart is he had a very good like kind of similar to us he had he had a good network and he didn’t have time to underwrite all the deals that would come down he didn’t have time to run a financial model or call people and dig you know kick the tires and make sure that you know the thing was real and that was a good investment but he had a lot of flow like we do and so i don’t have time to look at most of my investments because i don’t have an analyst and i don’t have the time myself because i put my own time into my business right so i thought what was crazy is he did that and he’s up like a lot like i don’t know exactly how much but like let’s just say his his big cloud investments are like 100 x marks you know so so you um what is the typical size of a family office what amount of wealth does an individual need to where you oh you typically they’ll be 50 million themselves 100 it’s definitely in like the i think at 50 you split it with another family so i i worked at jp morgan private bank in college as an intern which at the time was the largest wealth management organization and and they had billionaires as clients who did not have family offices they hired jp morgan to be their family office but the really big clients at the firm would somewhat someone someone that would also have a family or would leave the firm to form it and so back then this is back in like 2004 like i don’t think you had a family office unless you were like one of the top 50 richest people in the world it was my recollection of the time and then there and then and then came these ideas of multi-family offices where people share billionaires in our family office now obviously things have become much more like i think there’s more and more of this going on and so i think people are forming family offices you maybe have i thought a couple hundred million 100 million but what was amazing about my friend is that you know this is somebody who had more like low eight figures and had essentially formed a family office yeah i like the idea of the shared family office by the way that makes a lot of sense to me i’m surprised that doesn’t happen more at like every level of wealth it does you could yeah there’s like shared family off i mean i think that like once you get into like the 40 50 million range it makes sense to like do like three or four people together um but yeah for making less than 20 which is still a significant amount of money the idea of hiring a full-time staff is kind of outlandish and that’s kind of cool so i have a similar setup i’m lucky that like the business i make enough income where you know it’s cool like this isn’t it it’s a business expense it right it’s basically there’s a lot of tax i would otherwise be paying um and so instead of paying tax i actually get this individual to actually grow the thing and um and so that was my logic but that might be sort of silly logic but it’s definitely more than what most people do what do you think that it is it’s already working as far as i’m concerned you know i think it’s a fair trade yeah by the way i i agree more i mean investing in talent is just always pays off if you’re if you’re like willing to iterate and try and experiment and you’re you have hustle and you work hard in my experience so i love it i i i hired a a bookkeeping firm in europe and they’ve created my books for my coaching business for you know renting my home for all of my investments and for my personal and then i have like an executive assistant who you know frees up a bunch of my time and i’ve been thinking about hiring somebody to just like manage my with me which is part of why i was mentioning this to sam the other day that my friend had this great success you know doing this and i think it makes all the more sense for you sean you know because you’re obviously you’re you’re also operating labor-intensive businesses like where you have to like you know create things put them online like e-commerce and i mean i just think it’s like i think it’s a little nutty to do some of this because if you just kind of let your money sit it’s gonna grow pretty good doing boring ass [ ] and the question is is is doing all this extra stuff actually gonna work out if you do it for three decades you know what what will you perform better doing and sure sean you’re crushing it now or i i think i bet you are because bitcoin is growing and the economy is booming but do you think that over the next 30 years that what do you think is going to be better for you um you know i think it’s true that most people fail to just beat the passive index when you account for fees that’s been proven out but also you know most people is not all people so i think there is you know maybe having the network that we have in silicon valley is actually significant enough of an edge where this with this works for me i didn’t think about it like an investor uh i need somebody to do but manage my money if it was just managed my money i would not i definitely wouldn’t pay somebody in house to do it for me it was like cool i want to be you know creating content i want to be running this angel fund but i don’t want to be taking all these meetings and i don’t want to be you know like i’ll be in a meeting you know i’ll be in a business meeting and then my newsletter will go out and people will like look at their phone and be like how did you what is that and i’m like oh yeah like i don’t write everything i don’t send all this stuff i don’t do the formatting i don’t do all the research like i have somebody i really trust and we work together on it and i’m more the editor than the author and um and that’s like the case for a lot of the different things i do when i was raising the rolling fund i didn’t have time to go raise all the i tweeted [ ] out and then a bunch of things came inbound and then my guy basically like took those inbounds and turned them into cash in the bank and i was like this is magic um he does that every week he goes through my dms and he’s just like hey he gives me an excel sheet that says like for example for this clubhouse one it was insane it was like malcolm gladwell follows you now this guy follows you now this guy follows you i’m gonna here’s some dms i have as like something to say to them or they said this i’m thinking about replying this just say yes or no and i just say yes or no and then he does all of it right and it’s like that is being in two places at once i’m down to pay for that i’m not really personally i don’t think it makes sense for me to pay just for investment advisor or sort of a wealth manager from where i’m at i’m less vulnerable i think if you keep iterating on the concept you’ll find that it’s actually extremely lucrative to hire even into this this role because your rolling fund for instance imagine if you had someone just full time focusing on growing the the sean investment world i do know because sam so one thing i think you’re missing out on is that it’s not just investing your capital it’s the ability for you to raise special purpose vehicles and syndicate and so i did uh i did i did my first one yesterday i raised a hundred fifty thousand dollars okay are you you can carry an interest on that yeah okay so imagine if you had someone full time spinning up more of those so that you were getting 20 you know carried interest in you know instead of one deal a month what if you’re doing 10 deals a month but you would need you would need like some infrastructure around that yeah one of the coolest examples i think i think doing it though for investing is actually a little silly i mean it’s not silly it’s just it’s hard because a lot of these angel investments won’t pay money for eight years so what are you gonna like front the bill early on so i actually think what sean’s doing is actually the right move he if someone’s working on other income generating things earlier like i think their investments westminster you just need to structure them differently two and twenty so the two percent in a in a hedge fund venture fund or private equity fund pays for your overhead it pays for your investment sean are you doing two percent i took zero percent management fee uh because i didn’t know if anyone would really want to invest in the rolling fund so i was like okay why do i how do i differentiate from the other five people that are like me they’re like an entrepreneur who’s had an exit has done some angel investing and just spun up a rolling front because i was i think in the first 10 rolling funds i think i was one of the first 10 maybe 20. and so i knew there’s gonna be like 100 more of these in the next quarter uh how do i like just quickly raise this amount and differentiate myself and i said well i hate [ ] fees i hate fees all the time so i was like i’m just gonna take no fees i have enough income coming in from other places that like i’ll do this and i have a i have two full-time people that basically are not full-time i shouldn’t say that i have two people that are dedicated one is this guy romine who you’ve probably seen on twitter he’s a real smart guy he he himself owns a really successful big business uh manny has a podcast and he’s like an investor himself and i basically said he went to college with me i said hey i need somebody to kind of manage my fund and take a bunch of these meetings because i don’t have a ton of time and uh do you want to do it like we’re going to invest in 25 30 companies a year you know so like if you want that experience while you’re running your company before you eventually sell your company like let’s do this and he’s like x harvard mackenzie uh you know he’s a former lawyer like he’s a super sharp guy and then i have this other guy who’s a scout that basically he works at on deck and he went through yc and he referred himself i think 20 companies into this yc batch so he’s like boots on the ground sees everything before it even gets into yc and so those guys basically are doing my uh rolling funds you know one guy does the scouting and the other guy does the vetting and then i basically am doing the um the you know the final meetings with the founders and making the final decisions on a lot of those and so that’s been a pretty sweet way to do this investing and now we’re doing four million dollars a year of startup investing um you know that’s up i was doing probably i don’t know 200 000 a year before that so you know i was able to get massive leverage by doing this and i just agreed to split the carry with these guys because i’m taking no management fees i said hey you get a piece of my carry instead of me paying you a huge salary right this is how normal funds start they often start with little to no management fees in order to incentivize people to invest and then as they mature and grow reputation they start to charge management fees which is which is by the way a service to the investor because they don’t want you to be understaffed and under under infrastructure like a really a really extreme where where this goes at the most extreme when i worked at carlisle i was pretty a pretty fun example of this is david rubinstein the the co-founder and the lead fundraiser at carlisle had a full-time equity analyst who would you know graduate from like yale or princeton who worked at merrill lynch who he would hire and he would go through these i think every few years all they would do all day is do research so that when he would speak on a podcast he would sound extremely intelligent because he knew everything that he needed to know about what’s happening in china or dubai or whatever the whatever the topic of the day was because he had a team of people like you know you had a small little like crew working on this who were actually trained equity research analysts so you can imagine all the things you could invest in like people who make you know make sure that your research for your podcast for example which that i know sean has that and we have that uh or we’re getting a lot more of that here all these investments are going to make your big cloud go up tying you back so ryan let’s let’s finish up the big club thing so you have put in uh tens of thousands of dollars into big cloud i believe and you are what is the strat you’re using right now you’re looking for undervalued basically like sam you said okay sean and sam about similar twitter followings but sean’s coin is more expensive right now so i’m gonna buy a ton of sam and also they’re in the same vehicle of my first million so like you know you know there’s a good chance they’ll they’ll grow together so you saw sam as an undervalued asset is that the core thing you’re doing basically just looking for the undervalued so so there’s two main investment strategies and then there’s multiple investment strategies under the second one so the first one is you just buy big cloud and you just bet on the whole platform and i’m probably going to keep like 60 of my money just in big cloud and then once you own big clout you can buy and buy creator coins right creator coins are like the sam coin the sean coin within that strategy i have a few strategies so one is i buy undervalued people like the sampar who until yesterday was valued at zero and i and i bet that he’s gonna go up and then there’s people i’ve also bought some elon musk and some chamath and some of the people who are already trading at really high numbers because i just think it’s the plot they’re blue chippers popular people are going to go to the to the face the fang of bitcoin basically right that’s like buying like you know it’s like buying like yeah like walmart you know i was buying like you know champagne or naval um so and then i’m looking like i’m telling you chuck norris you watch chuck norris is gonna go up like austin reef at morning brew i think he’s gonna go way up and he’s gonna do better than sam because sam’s kind of being a wuss about big clown from what i can tell i i think it’s true i am being a little bit of a wuss i just can’t tell if i’m just like so sam did you ever see old-fashioned did you see this thing that came out a couple years ago um by sikki chen called famous or it was also called stolen because there was two there’s two versions of it was called stolen initially and then uh that was a little bit too controversial and they ended up having to change the name to famous and then even that can’t do controversial they just had the whole app got taken down it was extremely viral so what what stolen and famous were was basically people started tweeting out one day just stole at seanvp just stole at the sam far [Music] and the stolen account had like the funniest buy i don’t remember what it was but it was just like you know it wasn’t trying to explain what it was it was like just like um super low key about the whole thing and so what it was was you could just go if you place the top bid it was like you uh you have the hot potato like you owned that person because you made the winning bid and so it was an auction of people on twitter and so you could go and you could buy and have all you could buy ryan hoover you could buy all these for some amount of money and then that would be like the winning bid somebody had to top you in order to take it and um and so it went super viral super quickly in the kind of like product tech silicon valley bubble and then i guess they didn’t like the connotation of stolen so then they rebranded as famous af and so famous af started working and then it went so viral that it was going into schools and like bullying was happening because people were just stealing like classmates and then like dumping them or something like that i don’t know what it was but like some teacher came out and was like or some mom came out was like dude my kid is getting bullied via stolen via via famous and this is like messed up and then apple took it off the app store because they were like what is this bullying app and so um and so that was the and so so sikhi who’s the guy behind it he made sandbox vr and he’s you know doing runway uh yeah yeah yeah cool new startup and so this guy’s this guy’s a gangster and so he he built these games and so now every time i see big clout and by the way anytime anybody sees big cloud that no seeky they’re like oh this is it he’s like dude i know like just stop saying to me like uh please to stop sending me if one more [ ] person sends me a big clout link you know i’m gonna lose my mind and uh so this has happened before and it did go viral before i think there’s a very good chance that this goes viral again it has two kind of core things going against it one is um it’s it looks a little bit shady and it’s come across a little bit shady so far um and you have to have a password to get in so which is which is one of the reasons the friction of the password is one one major friction right that’s why it’s not going viral right now it’s going viral within a small circle but not like super viral because it’s not open to everybody yet and then the second thing is you have to you have to transfer in bitcoin in order to use it and so that already limits it right there’s like just very few people who even own bitcoin so you know that’s a big big gate in the way of this thing going crazy but everything else i think is it is engineered it is pro from a product design perspective this is designed brilliantly and this will grow in the way that it’s designed well what uh spent the better part of yesterday trying to teach my mom and my sister how to create coinbase accounts transfer answer bit buy bitcoin transfer bitcoin uh sean do you think that angel investing like is this going to be what’s the future of sean pray i mean do you think that this is going to be your full-time job angel investing is a way to for me it’s like just dipping a net into a stream of flowing water with a bunch of fish inside i’m not taking a boat out spending you know an afternoon out in the water fishing and trying to catch something is this in front of my house there’s this stream with fish going through and if i just put a net in i can catch some great fish that’s what angel investing is for me and that’s what it’s been basically for the last i don’t know six seven years where my own friends my own personal network or things that come inbound through getting more popular on twitter and the podcast it leads you to some opportunities people want you in their deals and you get to see deals early and before i used to sit on the sideline i watched a bunch of those companies get big and then i started you know i asked a rich friend hey if i give you a good deal that you invest in can i get a piece of the carry i said yeah that’s how i got into lambda school which is already kind of like a big winner and then as soon as i did that i was like man instead of a big like instead of getting a piece of this guy’s carry why can’t i just do this myself so as i got a little more money i started doing it myself and then with the rolling fund that just lets me do it on steroids where i can just do more and so what percentage of your net worth well could let’s be you can not answer this but let’s just say that you invest four million dollars a year in eight years how much income do you think you’re going to do you think you’re going to make an additional 200 do you think you’re going to make 200 grand a year do you think you’re going to make sure a a good fund is going to like let’s say 3x it’s money over the kind of like seven to 10 year period uh great will be you know 5x or more and like if you’re if you count if you caught an uber if you caught a coin base uh you know you’re laughing your your returns are going to be super skewed just by this one company that’s now worth tens of billions but let’s assume for this conversation let’s assume you’re only so let’s say you’re the first um let’s take let’s take three x let’s take the most cons like the most conservative version of winning right is i triple the money so over the next three years i’m going to deploy 12 million dollars let’s say i 3x that money that’s 36 million dollars um that gets that comes back into the fund after returning the money so uh so a total of 148 million dollars and so on the 36 that’s the profit i get to keep twenty percent of the carry right so that’s about seven million dollars-ish is my mental math right um you know roughly seven roughly seven million dollars and that’s seven million dollars over a let’s call it eight eight to ten year time span it’s not the biggest like that’s that’s why i don’t go all in on it is because i can make way more money building a business in that same amount of time so if i well in seven so but that’s as a recap that’s you’re you’re my did you how much in sev you say seven million years yeah that’s a significant amount of money that’s a million dollars a year so you’re thinking this will make you a million dollars a year for seven years starting in seven years no i think it’s like kind of like a lump sum that you get in seven years more more like it i get nothing for for seven years and then as these companies as the as many of them die and some of them do okay then a few winners emerge and eventually you reach a steady state where you keep going and you are making a millionaire yeah really what’s interesting is where you scale and you start doing you know 20 million 50 million a year 100 million a year uh and you know eventually that’s why you could see yourself hiring investment professionals you could have a whole fund haven’t has any years paid out ryan yeah yeah but i i i think there’s another important point is it’s not just about money it’s about well-being as i’m always saying on the show like it’s about like what investing has done for me is it’s been a vehicle for learning and for connecting to really interesting people and for like getting to like kind of like go on these fun adventures where i’m like learning about like the latest things in crypto or the latest things in e-commerce and i’m connecting dots and then the other thing it’s done is it’s made my my primary businesses far more successful because i’m borrowing ideas i’m learning like oh wow look how this e-commerce company does performance marketing i’ve never even heard of performance marketing until and then i brought it back to a newsletter company and like oh at our newsletter company we can buy facebook ads and google ads like this ecom company that i invested in called warby parker or whatever and like i’m now i’m like cross you know i’m taking you know i mean kind of like what your show has done a really nice job of your but does it no does it distract you from your main job well that’s that’s where like that’s why i think it was smart that this guy hired some people and how you know sean’s hiring some people because then then you can kind of like be as you said in two places at once but no that’s you just have to you just have to take the risk of hiring a hundred and fifty thousand two hundred thousand dollars well you’re not you don’t have to i mean i i haven’t done that and i’ve still made a bunch of investments but but i missed a lot of investments because of that very reason because i was like hey i’m really laser focused on biz now and summit and powder mountain i’m not look at a deal every day i’m going to look at like a deal every like three weeks and so i’m just going to miss a lot of stuff you know i missed like i mean i i have a one of my the ceo of my company invested 150 grand in a um in a in a crypto hedge fund and he’s you know he’s up to like almost six million dollars of value i don’t know if i should be saying that here but you know he i missed that because i was just like i’m busy i can’t look at that right now yeah that’s totally true and by the way most of the time when people say like oh it’s not about the money it’s about the journey it’s about the learning it’s about the people you meet you know the kumbaya thing normally that’s like you know that’s the tell it’s actually almost always about the money because if you took the money out they wouldn’t do any of the [ ] this is actually one of the rare things where that’s actually true because i actually was doing all these things i was meeting founders i was helping them with their businesses i was getting excited and digging into new spaces i was keeping a fantasy portfolio of like to learn like oh i’m tracking these spaces and i think these are going to be big and i want to learn about these spaces and here’s some of the companies that are doing cool things and let me observe their growth tactics from the outside and try to see what’s working and maybe apply that to my business i was literally doing all those things for before i ever put a dollar in uh you know i was subscribed to like i don’t know 50 different um angel list syndicates because you didn’t have to put money in but you could get the investment memo because i literally loved the learning so much and i had no plan at the time to be investing in any of those i put zero dollars in sorry to all those syndicate leads you know i was that annoying guy that was subscribed and never invested but it was because i actually genuinely actually wanted to learn and i wanted to meet these founders and so this is one of the rare occasions where when you hear that normally it’s [ ] in this case i’m a hundred percent on board with which everyone and like that’s how i that’s exactly how i think about it is this is like a my other friend described it as like it it’s a great way to just blow off some entrepreneurial steam it’s like you your brain if you’re operating a business you all of a sudden start hearing about vertical farming and crypto and then like you know oh what the hell is you know what the hell are nfts and like you learn about all this [ ] and then part of you is like should i be doing that like what the [ ] am i doing this stupid like real estate newsletter i should be going out there building you know this ride sharing company or whatever and so investing gives you a way to like get the high and dabble in that and have some financial upside but you don’t it lets you stay focused as an entrepreneur so that’s the other like weird psychological things that comes from investing is um aside from the learning aside from the good friends you make and the network you build and the learn you know the cross ideas you get you literally just get to like it’s like a release and uh and then you can go back to doing your thing do you but but are you sean are you the reason i i did the syndicate thing i’m doing it with joe and where i i bet my own money it’s it’s kind of like a rolling fine but it’s not uh it’s only deal by deal basis where sean you have like money that you could deploy a little more freely i didn’t do the rolling fun thing because i didn’t want to have customers that i have to uh appease and talk to on a regular basis because i didn’t want like a job do you feel know now that you have like a job because you have a hundred people who have given you yeah no i write a once a month update uh and i like doing it anyways it’s just hey here’s the new companies we invest in why i would do that for my own documentation anyways of what was the conviction at the time i made the investment here’s what i believe here’s why i believe investing in it i like having that anyways for five years from now that’s an important thing for me so in this case i just publish it to my investors great so that’s the that’s all the maintenance that goes into it there was a little bit again early on of like actually getting the investors on board but i took no meetings i took no phone calls i just said here’s the link and because of this podcast because of my newsletter because of my own track record and the deck i made that was enough to raise the money for me and i know that that’s kind of like a not everybody can do that part most people would have to go knock on a bunch of doors and really sell this thing um so that’s that but the other thing you mentioned like for you if you just get busy and you just don’t care about angel investing you could just not do a deal for the next six months and no sweat whereas for me i actually do need to deploy this money and so there is like a certain amount of like startup pitches i need to take every month in order to be doing great investments um and so you know i actually have to deploy this money i can’t like just sit on my hands and decide i want to go go on vacation or like just go super heads down in my own business i can’t like i can’t do that because i’ve taken on a fiduciary like obligation to deploy these people’s cash right what i thought would be man i used to invest i don’t know like 50k a quarter 100k a quarter max and now i have to deploy a million dollars a quarter and actually i run out within the first two months of every quarter so so it’s actually not been an issue because i just my check sizes are bigger and once people know you’re investing they send you deals your friends send you deals they’re like hey i’m doing this this is a good deal and they’re like oh wow i didn’t need to like the fundamentals make sense and all is all the good there’s other good go co-investors there i didn’t need to go find this deal it came to me uh and that’s that’s the best thing that happens what percentage of what percentage of your liquid net worth did you allocate to before this because now with the rolling fund i’m investing rpm right other people’s money i only a small amount of my own money for the fund before this i was doing roughly 200k 250k a year was what i put in and i don’t remember what that was at that time of like liquid net worth it was like kind of substantial like it was it wasn’t wasn’t i don’t know half a percent or something it was like like that mattered to me but also if i lost that money or if like i knew going in at the very least this money is locked up for a long time i can’t use it to go buy a vacation over or under 15 over under 15 or 10 percent like was it more than like 10 because that’s a lot i don’t know i don’t have to think what i i don’t know how much money i made at the time because i made more money in the last couple years than i did back then so i don’t know actually how much money i had then what i do remember is thinking when i very first started i thought i need about 300 000 of a bankroll to even do this to have enough of a portfolio to give myself a shot because angel investing so many of your deals are going to be losers and so i thought okay i need to have you know 20 to 30 bets i need at least 300 to 500 000 of bankroll to go do this and at that at the very beginning i didn’t have that that would have been an irresponsible amount of money for me that was like at the time i don’t know half of the money i had or something like that so i said okay i can’t do that that’s why i started talking to other people and being like hey if i scout for you can i get carrie and you put up the capital and that’s how i got started although you know operate go ahead even when you have almost no money i i really like this as opposed to buying public equities when you have very little money because of the learning and the connections and like the benefit that that could have on your own business like i was betting a very high percentage of my money initially and it really helped me because i rather than just buying like coca-cola or walmart or some publicly traded company where i learn nothing i meet no one you know i it doesn’t really help like the day-to-day of my like newsletter business or my community business or you know the the real estate business if these things were basically benefiting my ability to make money on my day job so that’s why i i actually think when you’re small it’s actually not a terrible idea and in fact a high point i’ve read a tim ferriss thing a while back he wrote a long time ago before before he started investing and he was basically like i’m just going to fund my own mba like if i was going to spend 200k yeah business school i think i can learn more investing that 200k in a mix of you know public stocks and private you know startups and when i read that i was like oh absolutely like i will build a network i will build business knowledge i’ll have skin in the game and actually this might become a profitable thing you know but the worst case scenario this was my rather than going to you know wichita state and like going get my mba like why would i not do this so once i read that that’s how i started thinking about it was like i’m going to put 120k in that’s like a you know that’s business school and let me let me just get going well so we we not only thought about that with investing but we we lost 25 000 on the first summit we held various private summits in between summits where we would lose 20 grand here 10 grand there to throw like an event and i always saw that as an investment like you’re saying like in like my network or my learning and the same thing i was talking to a guy the other day about he wanted some coaching and he was like debating whether i was worth like the monthly amount and he had like 400 grand in his savings and i was like well what do you want to do what else do you want to do with the 400 grand he wanted to put it into like robin hood and buy stock and i was thinking like man if i had known about coaching or consulting or some of the things i now know about you know like trainings that you could go get online you’re taking like a writing course from like you know parel online like those things are so valuable like they’re so worth the like three grand here the five grand there that if you have you know a little bit of money saved i think that’s so much better than trying to make like you know the index return on the stock market when at least when you don’t have that much money i i think um somebody said to me you know concentrate to get rich diversify to stay rich like when you don’t have much money like put your money into building yourself up building up your learning building up your network and then later when you’re when you’re much richer then diversify and have a you know an allocation and a portfolio like that i don’t know if we’re gonna get so like sean do you agree i think the clips that we’re doing are like the greatest thing that’s like one of the most proud things i am of my career even though they’re all of you it’s like it’s the most proud thing that like i’m so proud of that and i’ll we i don’t even know if anyone has made it this far but we’re gonna we uh we hired i can tell you we hired these we were just about done with the contract they’re gonna be doing 30 to 60 a month across the whole hustle organization and you and i can take up as many as we want um i think that they are the greatest thing ever and all i want to do is talk in talking 120 second bytes so it becomes uh ryan you got to google google the hustle on instagram and you’ll see these clips i’m talking about they’re getting like sean sean did one the other day that uh the michael jordan thing i think it has 150 000 views at this point um me and zach did one where that has 80 000 views like it’s so fun it’s the most proud i am so i don’t know if we’re gonna get any clips out of this i feel like if if the guys by the way the guys who are listening to this and doing it if you don’t feel like you get a great big clout clip from this message me on slack i’m gonna record a clip worthy bitcloud thing because i know how you guys will animate it because we have to get a bit cop clip that has to happen you through either the stuff you got out of this wait or i will say a full like two-minute monologue i wanna i wanna do a clip too let’s all do it let’s all get them let’s go they’re they’re really good you chad’s not sean’s naturally good at it i think okay at it uh ryan you gotta talk way faster to get good at it you gotta like you have to pack these with information and you have to talk really fast that’s kind of hard that’s good i have to jump because i have uh a i’m getting back to baby that b i have a very i’m gonna literally go execute a shake down uh right now and i can’t wait to see what happens if i get shot you know hey this was my last hurrah by my big clout in my memory but uh i got to go shake down somebody who stole something from me and uh get it back because uh i know who hasn’t god i love you i remember you you were talking about this one said you were like dude i would go back and you said you have done it or you said you would go do it i have done it and i’ll remember to help myself at the time being like this guy’s a maniac i would never do that and now i’m so enraged that the person stole and also like there’s no other recourse the cops are like well you know what are we gonna do like you’re the [ ] cops and like you know the you know the lawyers like well you could try to like sue him but you know just don’t cross the line [ ] him like don’t hurt don’t don’t physically hurt him just just yeah the cops were like here’s what okay they’re like once they understood what i wanted they’re like oh you need something called a civil assist and a civilization where cop goes with you you say i’m going to confront somebody and a cop goes with you to ensure that nothing goes down just as a thought so to let it go and think of it as oh my god you know right let it be angry i understand don’t tell them to forget about this person will keep stealing unless they understand that we know that they’re stealing and we can stop them from doing it so uh me just well you can you could say to them i i hey by the way i know you’re stealing and i’d really appreciate it if you don’t steal enjoy the things you’ve already stolen no and uh i’d really appreciate if you would like anymore all right do you realize how house how much rage drives people to be successful and how much we’re events i don’t want you to tell me to forget about it i want you to teach me how to use my rage to fuel me to be better dude there’s such funny things you can do with this someone’s been stealing my bike seat outside my house here i’ve been it’s been stolen twice in the last six weeks and like you know you could just put a note outside like here’s i’m gonna put i’m gonna go buy a few extra bike seats and just leave them out for them i think you put a nice dude note out there with some lemonade no taste them what the holes no don’t write them a note i want you to like tase them all right come on come to miami oh you’re going to tease him i’m gonna give him lemonade and we’ll let’s let’s see how it all plays out man now i’m torn i’d rather your shoulder telling me to you know turn the other side and go today go to amazon type in paddle prod order the top one meditation cushion yeah that’s right you do your way i’ll do my one guys yeah i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be what i want to i put my all in it like no days off on the road let’s travel never looking back