Ariel Helwani, the prominent MMA journalist who left ESPN to go independent, breaks down his multi-platform business — Vox Media, The Ringer/Spotify, his own YouTube channel, and Substack — and explains why he doesn’t call it fully “independent” but embraces the independent spirit. He also traces the origin of his career back to quitting Spike TV after one week in 2007 and building his reputation one MySpace interview at a time, drawing a direct parallel to the YouTube project he’s building now.
Speakers: Ariel Helwani (guest, MMA journalist), Sam Parr (host), Shaan Puri (host)
Revenue Breakdown and Business Structure [00:00:00]
Sam: What do you think is going to be the biggest revenue driver right now? Is it Substack — do you think the paid newsletter business is going to drive a significant amount? Or is it most going to come from BT Sport, from YouTube ads? How is your business set up, and where’s your head at in terms of where the opportunity is?
Ariel: My biggest revenue driver, if you want to put it in those terms, is Vox Media. They’re paying me the most. And that was important to me because the MMA Hour was a show that I created and put a lot of time and effort into. I mean, I poured everything into that show from 2009 all the way to 2018, and it was heartbreaking to see it end — even though I was going to my dream job. That show just meant so much to me, and I think it meant a lot to a lot of people. So that’s the biggest one.
Sam: Do you regard that as a YouTube channel, or is it also a podcast?
Ariel: The podcast does very well too. It’s on Apple, Spotify, Google, Stitcher — all those places. And you own it?
Sam: You own it?
Ariel: I do not own it. No. They pay me to do that show. So that’s what’s interesting about my situation: some of the stuff I own, some of the stuff I don’t own. But everyone’s playing nicely together in this sandbox, and I’m very appreciative.
It took some time to figure out all the pieces. That was the most interesting part of this whole process. Back in February, when I came to the conclusion that I was going to leave ESPN and try to do things here and there — obviously you have “oh, I’d like to do this and that.” Some people call it a Chinese menu, you build your own thing. But then the actual dance of getting everyone to play nice and be on board with all these little different things I’m doing — that was the most interesting part of the whole process.
I really lucked out. I found people who are okay with me having my own YouTube channel that’s completely mine, and a Substack, but also doing something for The Ringer/Spotify, and also doing something for Vox. So it’s just been a really interesting exercise.
Look, my friend Pat McAfee — I’m dropping names here — he’s like, “Oh, well, you’re not totally independent. You don’t own everything.” I’m like, okay, fine. If you want to get into that whole semantics game, fine, I don’t own everything. But there’s an independent spirit to all of this, where at the end of the day I feel like I’m partnering with other people as opposed to being a full-time employee with anyone. I’m not. I have an LLC now, and I’m able to pick and choose what I want to do. That’s really important.
But to answer your question: the biggest deal I have at the moment is my deal with Vox Media.
Long-Term Vision and the Bill Simmons Comparison [00:04:30]
Sam: Do you think long-term that stays true? Because some things pay off better immediately, and then some things you say, “Okay, if I build the newsletter, if I build the podcast, if I build The Ringer stuff — build that up three years from now, this picture might look a little different.” Or — you said you don’t really think too much about business. Do you not even care about that? Do you just do your thing and see what happens?
Ariel: Are you trying to get me to reveal my five-year plan, my business plan, right here?
Sam: That’s exactly what I’m trying to do. I’m looking for 2030 Ariel. Where’s 2030 Ariel doing? Like, the guy who started The Ringer — what’s his name again?
Ariel: Bill Simmons.
Sam: Yeah. He was in a similar position as you. The Ringer probably netted 150, 200 million dollars when he sold it. Is that going to happen to you?
Ariel: That would be nice. I don’t know. Right now I’m very happy with the situation, I’m really excited, and it’s kind of flying under the radar at the moment — which I’m totally okay with.
Building an Independent YouTube Channel [00:06:00]
Ariel: What I’m doing on my own YouTube channel is giving me, as I like to say, a lot of naches. Naches is a Yiddish word that means kind of like fulfillment and joy in your heart. Because every week — every Thursday right now — I’m posting an interview with someone outside of the MMA world. I’ve been itching for a very long time to show people that I’m more than just an MMA guy, that I can interview other athletes, authors, musicians, comedians, anyone. It doesn’t matter if you’re in the sports world, if you’re an actor, if you’re a Holocaust survivor — if you’re interesting, I want to talk to you.
The thing I derive the most enjoyment from are the interviews. I love talking to people. I do a four-hour show twice a week now, and I feel like I could do it every day. It’s just a lot of fun for me.
I started that about a month and a half ago. It’s just my own little thing — me and two producers, an audio guy, a video guy, and we’re posting these interviews. I honestly don’t care at this moment if a million people watch or three people watch. I’m doing them to fulfill this passion of mine to talk to other people, to scratch that itch. But also to eventually show the right kind of people that I could do this, that I could be much more than just an MMA guy.
The Origin Story: Quitting Spike TV After One Week [00:08:30]
Ariel: And it’s actually the exact same thought process I had when I got into all this back in 2007. In fact, this past Tuesday — October 19th — marked the 14-year anniversary of me launching my own site, jerrypark.com. It’s still up.
I was at Spike TV in September of 2007. I got a job working in TV production, and Spike TV was the home of the UFC. I thought, “Okay, this is the best place for me — TV production, UFC, it’s perfect.” After one week, I walked into my boss’s office and quit. I said, “I don’t really think this is the right fit for me.” They didn’t do anything creative. I’m a creative guy. I like to think of ideas, come up with things. And they were just kind of the middlemen — the UFC was producing all the content. So I walked in and said, “I’m really sorry, thank you for the opportunity, but I don’t think this is the right fit.”
I’m the kind of guy who, when I’m 85 years old, I don’t want to wake up and say, “I could have done this, I should have done this, I should have zigged when I zagged.” He was very upset. He said, “You’re going to regret this for the rest of your life. This is unprofessional. No one’s ever done this.” They made me stick around for a month and a half in my cubicle until they found someone to replace me.
That was the crossroads of my life. Our mutual friend John was actually part of this process — we would go for lunch during those weeks when I’m not doing anything, and I’m telling him, “I’m going to start my own website. I’m going to start interviewing fighters because I really want to go into MMA journalism. I want to show people I can be the Howard Cosell, the Max Kellerman, the whatever of MMA.”
So I started reaching out to fighters via MySpace, and every morning I would post an interview with a fighter. I didn’t care if five people looked at the interviews or 500,000. I just wanted to use that to show people that I could do it.
Parallels Between 2007 and Today [00:11:30]
Ariel: Fourteen years later, I’m doing the same thing on my YouTube page. And now I want to build this and grow it and use it as an opportunity to show people. But for now, it’s just giving me so much joy to go back to those early days and just talk to people.
Last week I interviewed Marty Fish — the former tennis player who’s been very open about his battles with anxiety — and friends of mine who have never watched my work, who don’t care about MMA, are like, “Wow, dude, you’re a really good interviewer.” I’m like, “Yeah, I’ve been doing this for 14 years.” But it’s opening me up to a whole new audience, and I’m very excited about that.