Episode of My First Million with Sam Parr and Shaan Puri.
Transcript
Note: This transcript was auto-generated from YouTube captions. It may contain errors and lacks speaker identification. A full Gemini audio transcript will replace this.
Kind: captions Language: en i think if you’re starting a media company and if i started it again if you didn’t go subscription first you’re an idiot and you’re a fool i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be what i want to i [Music] all right we’re live um so did you see i uh got ariel helwani to agree to come on i know good job how’d you do that a friend a good buddy of mine is like best friends with him and i just begged him your uh your outreach i had never seen you try so hard normally you’re pretty cool about things i don’t think you really care with too many people but i could tell you wanted this one i did i uh so basically eric for the people listening there’s this guy named ariel hawani he’s got a million followers on twitter so he’s not like that niche but basically he’s like the god of mma journalism and the reason why he’s interesting is because he just quit espn where he was probably making close to a million dollars a year as a host and he created a sub stack his own podcast and he’s kind of building like a little media media empire yep and uh so we’ll have him on and talk about that yeah and you know the thing that’s interesting about him was he’s been in it for a while so like you have this phrase i think you’ve said like niches get riches basically which is like yeah a lot of people are afraid to go into a niche market and is it niche or niche by the way i have no idea both can work okay good so you know a lot of people are afraid oh is this too niche and i think you have the opposite reaction which is tunish fantastic um at least that’s my my understanding you tell me if that’s that’s right or wrong well it’s the the two things one when you when whenever you start doing something it’s definitely better to start for a very small group of people in a very small niche and corner that or at least get big in that and then expand or the second thing is you can stay in a growing niche and grow with but you know start your start your business on top of a huge wave for example twitch video game streaming super small niche they never expanded really right it’s still the same thing from david we’ve tried but it’s still you know dominant where it’s just gaming yeah and that niche has just they’re in it it just is no longer really a niche or you have like an amazon only books and then you dominate that and then cds and then this and then this and then this so yeah i think starting small is always the way to go or is often the way to go yeah i think in ariel’s case what he did was um i know he’s a fan of i kind of want to ask him this he’s a fan of the nba like he’s a big basketball fan but he didn’t go for journalism basketball journalism which would have been a more obvious safe choice instead he went for mma which was like this fringe really niche sport that you know it was kind of like you know john mccain in new york is calling it human [ ] fighting it’s like not allowed in certain places yeah and so it wasn’t really like a very safe choice but he was the only dude doing it it felt like it was like you know you can go back you know 15 years basically and you see clips of him talking to people backstage and just budget production value but he was like the guy covering this regularly and because of that he’s got like deep relationships deep respect amongst the fans to the point where even though dana white who’s the president of ufc hates him and has banned him from like ufc events um he’s still the number one journalist so imagine you know like this guy that roger goodell the commissioner of the nfl just hates and bans from the game still being the number one you know journalist for for the athletes that’s kind of uh unusual and so yeah he’s an interesting dude with a cool story yeah i’m excited to have him i i actually think that i i think that it’s gonna it’ll be a hit with our listeners even the people who aren’t into ufc i think it’s gonna be a hit but i am a fanboy so we’ll see yeah that’s all good can i tell you about a business that is built on trust that i’m obsessed with at the moment okay go for it all right have you heard of examine.com no what is examined you’ve never heard that okay can you go to your computer now you have okay i’m at it let me go there all right so do i tell you what i see yeah okay i go to examine.com and i thought it was gonna be about books or something no it says nutrition information you can trust and then it’s just like a giant kind of like google search bar it’s like uh like for example oh it’s perfect actually my trainer was telling me about ashwagandha i see ashwagandha i uh i’ve been taking that for eight days now great so it’s a supplement and so i go here and i guess the idea would be hey there’s gonna be a lot of if you google this you’re gonna find a lot of information but we are a trusted source we do the research we put the pros and cons here we make it easy to understand is that the idea yeah so i’m gonna i’m gonna summarize this so the reason this interests me is i have a friend named seoul s o l orwell he’s a good buddy of mine i’ve never even met him but we went to a bunch of conferences and we were in the same room and we never met up but we became friends and um he’s a great guy and i just met him as a guy and then i saw his business and it’s called examine.com and what it does is they do a few things so first they get about 40 000 visitors a day and they get those visitors by having this free content so what you’re looking at where it examines that supplement ashwagandha but the model in which they make money is that they have a membership that membership has supplement guides and then they also have a thing where they look at all the recent studies and they summarize it to tell you exactly what you need to know and it’ll say this is a strong study and the conclusion is this this is a not great study and the conclusion is this and you shouldn’t you should avoid it and they do that with all types of studies and basically the what the company is i’ll explain why i think this is a big deal but basically they take knowledge that’s locked up or complicated to understand and make sense of it into a really easy to understand uh way and so they have i’m gonna give you some stats 40 000 visitors a day 20 employees seven figures in revenue 50 000 people have signed up for their membership or um bought some of their guys and that’s only been around for about two years the guides have or the membership and so uh they made money by selling guides and so i bought this supplement guide they have one on like i have like uh panic attack problems that i’m trying to fix and they have guides on it it listed all the it said here if these six supplements have been proven by clinical trials to help with panic attack and it lists them all and it says take this one if you don’t feel anything in two weeks pair it with this one and then pair it with this one and they tell you and they go and when you buy it make sure that it’s magnesium not magnesium oxalate like they tell you very specific stuff and i think this business is amazing it’s amazing because they’ve spent years building up trust so men’s health dr andrew huberman do you know who that is he’s that guy who has a youtuber he talks about health stuff he’s like kind of going viral right now just on joe rogan and tim ferriss they all saw everyone’s sites examine.com new york times sites examined.com they’ve spent years building up trust every word that they write is very meticulous now they’re starting to monetize and this model i actually think it’s amazing and i didn’t at first i was like there’s no way this can be a big idea but there’s this company called up to date you’ve probably never heard of up to date if you’re listening and you’re a doctor you probably have heard of this and so it’s basically examined.com but for doctors i mean it’s been around before examine.com so examine.com is that for nutrition in this business doctors pay i believe 600 a year and they get the same exact thing they get access to a content database that very explicitly and clearly says which clinical trials are proven which are not and what the conclusion is and then uh summarizes a bunch of stuff guess how much money that makes a year uh i think a lot i think i think probably i mean i’m just looking at up to date and i think it has 15 you know similar web shows about 15 million visits a month so uh that’s pretty impressive i would guess okay i’m going to go high ah no i’m going to go low it’s always fun to be blown away so i’m going to say 50 million a year so the estimate is closer to 500 million dollars a year in subscription i’m blown away just as i hoped with my low because isn’t it isn’t it shitty when you’re trying to yeah when you’re trying to blow someone’s mind and then they estimate over it you’re like well okay not not that much but it’s still cool it’s like god damn goddamn it like you know that should just be a rule amongst friends if i ask you to ballpark something you know let me let me blow you away and the company that owns this does the same thing for finance tax and accounting i believe and that whole company is publicly traded it does like 5 billion in sales a year crazy business model and i’ll tell you why this is interesting to me this is interesting to me because i love content businesses i love them there’s a huge problem with content businesses which is they suck at making money if you’re gonna make money in the most traditional way of banner ads or some type of buzzfeed style native ads i [ ] hate that this model i love i think that you could use this model for a bunch of different categories including skin care including beauty i think that would be the next the the easiest one according to seoul what do you think about this business it’s pretty neat right genius yeah uh so up to date makes total sense uh yeah like i am i’m surprised i haven’t heard of it i am not surprised something like this exists and works it just makes all the sense in the world examine.com also very very cool and i think sort of like if if up to date is kind of like a b to b examine is kind of like a a b to c where it’s like you know the average person who’s just curious like you i’m curious about panic attacks i’m curious about ashwagandha i’m curious about you know whatever l-carnitine and you know i hear about it i hear some buzz but i’m trying to be like smart and safe about things where do i go that’s not just trying to sell me [ ] and not just trying to like print page views as like a content form and so i think that trust is uh you know like sort of like one of the only things that matters you know like world of abundance and that’s where we are we’re in a world of abundance and so trust is like one of the key uh these things and examine.com their rule is they don’t uh recommend any brand so you can’t find any brand on their site if they say take magnesium oxide i was like sol just tell me like which brand so i could just buy it on amazon he goes no we can’t tell you that you got to go and figure that out because wait for the day we start doing that is the day we start like incentivizing the wrong [ ] so it’s a pretty amazing business model you know who else does this is consumer reviews so consumer reviews you probably don’t use anymore a lot of people who are younger or my age and younger don’t use it anymore so consumer reviews it’s wirecutter but they charge a subscription that company it’s actually a non-profit so you can actually look up their revenues their revenues uh they charge a subscription revenue what did i say consumer review consumer report yeah consumer report it was around it was a round before wire cutter i prefer wire cutter now but consumer report is pretty amazing they charge subscription revenue they still do like 120 million dollars in subscription revenue and they’re telling you like the best tv the best microphone the best computer and they crush it yeah so let me just uh consumer reports subscription newsstand and other sales 20 in the year 2020 they did 212 million dollars in subscription revenue crazy right subscription revenue that’s insane 245 million overall uh overall revenue in 2020 insane you’re an idiot and you’re a fool and you’re a masochist and you like pain if i if i could do it all over again knowing what i know now i would only start that way and it’s totally the i think it’s the best business model clip it uh all right yeah that’s a good one i like that a lot you’ve talked about this on like consumer reports for other things right so you’ve talked about it for sas tools um and then some people have tried that g2 and and others uh have tried that what do you think about that what’s your latest thinking on that because you’ve been thinking about that idea for a while i think it’s an amazing idea and someone could still do it g2 has raised another round of funding uh at like a multi-billion dollar evaluation i think i think it still could be done there’s a company called j2 global have you heard of j2 global no all right look up the stock of j2 global right now for me i i i act like i’m setting you up i actually haven’t looked at it in a while uh is it good okay so j2 global um all right it’s trading at 130 a share the market cap is 6.3 billion dollars and uh yeah you know like sort of year to date it’s almost double so j2 global what they do is they own a handful of publications including i i gn mashable pcmag um offers.com and one or two more but basically they make the bulk of the revenue i believe from suggesting which software to buy in pc magazine and that’s how they make most of their revenue and it’s a publicly traded company new look it all up so i think this model can still crush it i think pc magazine is pretty much garbage g2 is okay um right but anyway i think it’s a really big business that so many people are sleeping on and uh you know what else could you do this sort of trust trust model for so i have i have one idea but i’m curious what else comes to mind for you skin care and beauty that’s what i i think it could be done with skin care because there’s there’s an ocean of there’s an ocean of brands and you kind of care about you know the problem i think with that is you don’t have fear so there’s this one really good thing about supplements and medicine is that there’s like a fear component to it right like i don’t want to actually like die or get side effects from this thing or have a you know sort of a big problem occur because of the potential benefits of something whereas with skin care i think yeah you might break out or you might just want to know which one’s better but it doesn’t have that fear component where people are going gonna look it up and say before i buy this i’ve really gotta check and so i think that’s one of the keys um you know there’s like which one of these dishwashers is best i think that’s a consumer reporting it’s like i don’t wanna research this like oh these guys test this for 5 000 cycles and they tell me which one lasts the longest and works the best like okay that’s great i was never going to do that myself um you know i think that’s one version where it’s like tires which tire is the best tire to get which refrigerator is the best refrigerator to get and then on the other side there’s the fear one like supplements medicine sort of like alternative medicines what’s what’s gonna happen from those i think those are two like especially good categories and i think the difference of choosing the right category versus the wrong category is a multiplier of like 10x 10x or 50x of your outcome i i would imagine you could do the same for physical therapy so the reason physical therapy is interesting so basically i’ve had a injured achilles for about a year now and i’ve been researching like crazy and if you search achilles tendonitis there’s loads of different stuff and i’ve been reading so many studies and what my conclusion now is this there’s only one way to fix your achilles tendonitis and that is to do um well no no it’s rest but it’s to do six sets of 15 achilles like a eccentric drop down so what that means is you stand on a curb or a step and you slowly let yourself fall and then you uh kind of step up and then slowly and if you do that and i read study after study it’s almost like been unanimous that if you do this for three months every single day your achilles tendinitis will get better and i had to dig so deep for that and i think that something like this could exist for physical therapy and injuries and things like that right yeah yeah i i kind of agree with you right now my mom has this like she had vertigo but then it kind of went away but she still feels symptoms and the doctor’s like uh you don’t have vertigo she’s like no no i get that but what do i have i have something this is not right and they’re like uh blood work looks fine and then she has to call back like hey i know the blood work looks fine but i’m not right yeah what do i do they’re like ah go to let’s do an mri same thing and then it’s like finally okay do these like do this physical therapy so she literally walks around the house with a piece of paper in front of her that has like a letter on it so her eye has to focus on it and she moves it to the right while she’s walking and then moves it to the left while she’s walking dude is this the exercise like maybe it is if it is fantastic but where how do we know that this is it and that there’s not like a much faster better way because previously when she had vertigo um that was like vertigo proper she went to three doctors and nobody knew what to do the fourth doctor was like oh lay down and he like shook her head like vigorously and it’s like this known cure and basically like loosens up the crystal in the inner ear or whatever and she was like fixed in 10 minutes and she’s like wow like if i just hadn’t come to see you how many more months or years would i just had vertigo that’s like a pretty scary thought yeah i think that could work or here’s another thing do you know ky you know anything about chiropractory i know i know what most people know which is like uh skeptical skeptical hypo eyes as our boy brandon chomp says and i didn’t know that i thought sorry to chiropractors or chiropractors uh fans out there but basically chiropractor it was invented by a guy i forget his name but he was like a snake oil salesman he was full of [ ] and he thought that like i’m gonna someone’s gonna correct me because i’m kind of getting it wrong but basically like there’s like evil spirits or something in you and if you just if you adjust the spine it releases it now some chiropractor like can help very little like but ninety percent like ninety percent of what chiropractors what we think they do you you can’t adjust your spine and like your headaches stop like that’s just not how your body works but it’s nonsense right also the the acceptance rate of chiropractor school is a hundred percent so like and it’s like it’s like it’s like a google adsense certification it’s not like you know what i mean i know i’m gonna get flack for this and yes there are some chiropractors out there a lot of it though is nonsense and i i think an examine.com can exist for all types of parts of the body so anyway that’s my idea on xamarin.com i thought it was interesting i’m a bit obsessed with it i’m currently on a vitamin regimen and i discovered it on there i thought it was cool you want to do another one yeah okay so let me give you another trust as a service so this is just like a i’m calling this my two dollar blue collar side hustle right now which is here’s a side hustle that will make you some bucks it’s not going to be a huge business probably it’s not even maybe going to be around five years from now but i think right now it’s a thing you could do so um are you big on did you order a lot of food because i’m a door dasher right like i am i do but not but not like you you do like every meal well i i got a chef now but even with the chef there’s still you know two to two meals a week where i’m like let me just fire up the door dash and see what happens dude it’s so expensive it hurts me and so when when you get your meal they all have this like sticker on it now that says safety sealed and it’s just all it is is like you know normally it’s like in a bag and they would like tie the bag in a knot and now they like sticker it to show like no human like the food went in and then we sealed this [ ] because there’s like viral videos of like door dashers eating the food eating food coughing in the food i don’t even know what the fear is it’s just like i can’t lie when i see the sticker i’m like good i’m glad they sealed it like good i’d rather be sealed than not sealed that’s for [ ] sure and there wasn’t even a thing i was thinking about before but somebody is out there selling branded safety seal stickers to restaurants and i just think that in general there’s gonna be a whole wave if you just said i’m gonna sell trust and safety as a service i’m going to sell it to every business that needs to reassure its customers that it is taking coveted safety protocol seriously and then you can you can dial that knob up to level 12 of like chiropractory where you’re like i’m just gonna mail these to everybody they yeah put it on your self honor code this is honor code system you know like just just put this sign up in your in your restaurant uh put this mat on the outside of your thing put this on every door knob hang this on every doorknob uh you know stick put the sticker on every cup you know whatever um you could just send it or you could actually like go out and verify and say hey here’s our five point you know safety inspection and we send mystery shoppers out or whatever we like actually create kind of like a zagat reviews type of of sticker or seal of approval specifically for trust and safety around covid that’s the general idea what do you think i love it and i’m gonna show you an example of of something similar to this have you heard of uh i think it’s pronounced lead l-e-e-d leed certified the like green buildings thing yeah so i was looking this up so it’s a non-profit so you could easily see their sales so that that wow they do uh i think this is i i’m almost positive it’s run by a company called the u.s group it’s not a company but a nonprofit u.s green building council and i think they is that it do you know no but uh yeah i believe you and they do 31 million dollars a year in sales and basically i have no idea what the i have no idea why buildings are incentivized to do that but i imagine the business model is such where you pay led lead i guess is what is what it’s called and oh here dan says he’s a former accredited professional for lead so okay on a scale of one to chiropractor where is lead certification it’s nowhere near chiropractor it’s legit and uh you are a lead accredited professional what the heck does that mean did you pay for the first did you pay for this accreditation my company my former company did yeah okay so somebody paid for you to get certified and then you charged other companies to go give them the stamp of approval is that right yeah so as a professional you get like one point towards the point total you need to become a lead building and then there’s like a silver gold platinum scale and it’s [ ] like you know you use the right kind of light bulbs you use the right kind of insulation that sort of thing when you’re building your building right or renovating yep stuff like that um air quality indoor air quality which is really bad normally low use water things like that no smoke you sound like a lead professional right now bro i feel like i’m getting lead certified as we speak why does the building care about getting lead certified look good that’s a good question yeah i think it’s a little bit of uh just wanting to be green but there’s no incentivized incentivization dude the government does the government like give you anything or is it simply just for branding and awareness i don’t know it’s been 15 years since i took the exam so i’m uh a little out of pace on it but i’m not sure if there’s a big incentive for it dad how old are you i’m 35. you did this when you were 20 you were a 20 year old lead certified might be around a little bit i think i was 22 when i took it okay um more importantly i got a lead certification go to my twitter profile real quick just see what you see there dude [ ] that i think you’re the worst that is so lame so did you be verified so lame are you kidding me john got verified he’s got a blue check mark i think that is the lamest dude you are not one you’re not a man of the people anymore you’re so out of touch i’m used to [ ] on uh ah i don’t need that i don’t need that you know what what does that mean anyways who cares about that anyways you know i actually prefer not to ha and now that i have it all that all that [ ] is out the window i am so glad why did you get it so glad i got the blue well i got it for like actual legit reasons like first i was just i wanted it for my ego for many years when i was you know whatever didn’t happen who cares but then people started actually like uh impersonating me and scamming my followers so they were all these accounts get created every month and they would go dm my followers like hey yeah what’s up and people like oh hey thanks for the dm like no problem you know i saw you follow me um you know what are you doing with your portfolio lately and they would scam them into either sending them crypto or buying random crypto [ ] coins or they were um getting them to like buy stocks or like send them like send them money to go like invest in their like they like pretended they were my fund and so people were actually like you know it used to just hurt my feelings that i wasn’t verified but then it was actually like hurting other people and so i was like dude what the [ ] i was bitching about it yeah and uh i get i get that prize i get that but that’s the only reason i’ll accept i think every other reason is [ ] i don’t i think they’re stupid what’s that it’s a little jealousy i’m smelling i i don’t know like i think you kind of want the blue check mark too i think the people on twitter twitter need to help you out i think i’m i think i’m barely famous enough to get it but i i will not get it i’m not you have crypto tell me right now you push a button and you could just have it or not have it no no nothing else just push this little key on your keeper you tell me you wouldn’t push that button i give you my word i will not push that button wow but but if i am not if i end up having scams like you then yes but i’ve not had that i’ve not had that problem yeah it became like a legit problem uh anyways so okay lead certification so yeah basically i think i think lead is another good one like i would love if somebody just took on lead and just called it like you know green home oh you oh you’re you’re a green home triple star wow [Laughter] doesn’t that sound good already yeah and like again you could turn the knob however like you can go super legit if you really like find ways that you could kind of score buildings um or you could like be somewhere in the middle and you know build scam but like dude i would do that trust as a service is a great business i actually think that the health department’s scorecard is [ ] so i had a hot dog stand i mean duh uh i talked about that you told that story yeah yeah you know i don’t drink either and uh when they when they did my health certificate certificate like i just bullshitted through it like hardcore and like i mean my [ ] was clean but like they had all these boxes we had to check and it was [ ] but in the day that we were doing it i actually was wearing flip-flops and they gave me a 95 instead of a hundred and so like i think it’s kind of not gross toes out while you’re making hot dogs yeah nobody wants we’re outside in 100 degrees selling meat that’s been sitting there for like you know what i mean like forever like it’s it’s [ ] disgusting anyway it is super just i worked so without my first thing was a sushi restaurant and we had a comment we worked out of a commissary kitchen which is like a it’s a central kitchen where like caterers and bakers it’s like a kitchen without a storefront so in there was all the food truck guys and so you so in that i saw the hierarchy of like degeneracy it’s like caterers okay so like bakers bakers are good people bakers are nice women who uh care about their product and they do a great job and they’re very hygienic and then caterers are like kind of like they’re like bakers they’re they’re legit but you know the the neat the demands on a caterer are so high it’s always high urgency they’re preparing for a 200 person party or whatever so you know they’re kind of get [ ] done they’ll cut through the red tape but you know you you respect their decisions then there’s the [ ] food truck guys food trucks guys they think this is a bar they’re just drunk while they’re prepping their tacos they’re pretty disgusting and then you have the hot dog guy at the end this guy straight up okay so there’s like a sink and if you don’t know what a three compartment sink is you haven’t paid your blue collar dudes but basically a three-compartment sink is like kind of where you do the dishes in a commercial kitchen and like the three three compartment sink is just literally it’s full of like the dirtiest dishes and just a chemical bomb you put in there to like clean them and the [ ] hot dog guy in our comfort kitchen would just go and he’d just fill up the sink with the hot dogs that he’s gonna be selling like three hours later he’d just be throwing the hot dogs around there washing them dry you know put them in the other sink to dry off and it’s like this guy there was zero and i literally i don’t think i’ve had a hot dog since uh because i saw how the sausage was made and i you know never want to see it again so that’s my public service announcement don’t eat me yuck i agree i was clean i mean i kept myself clean but i can see why most don’t you can get you don’t have to you can just get away with it it’s not even counting what’s the meat i’m not like forget the meat let’s say the meat was pure the way it’s handled disgusting so i think you could build a new version of of a health department score actually i i actually think that’s legitimate how many other can we just do this like okay i’m bullshitting about twitter right now could you just do this where it’s like you have a con you have like a content score like you know just like how uh you know either like how like you know uh safe and kind of like non-offensive your content is like maybe it’s something that’s like you know it’s around your cancellation you know what we should do you know interestingness or your fan score like how much your fans care about you are we just [ ] like your engagement score but we make it really visible it’s like sam he may not have the most followers but his followers love him it’s like we make your q score yeah you know what qq is it’s like a popularity ranking uh we just make some it’s oh you haven’t heard this q score it’s like a thing for celebrities yeah it’s a thing for like a hollywood celebrity it’s like what’s your what’s your popularity kind of like it’s not an approval rating it’s like your popularity rating how how well do people know you and like you know obama has a high q score and oh yeah i feel like you could do that on social media with clout but just like [ ] the whole thing yeah i i i think that’s crazy and i think that’s good klout score i actually think clout was amazing so clout was a company that was around it was spelled k-l-o-u-t uh they had like a hundred employees they raised a lot of money they ended up selling for a hundred million dollars i think it was like a hundred million dollars of stock in a privately held company like i don’t think it was actually that kind of an exit but they great idea clout early you were just too early amazing idea way too early amazing idea if it were around now it would be the best somebody restart clout and just dm us i thought it was it was a great branding and people still to me make jokes about clout like they’ll be like oh i got to create that cloud score i know what they’re talking about i had a cloud score and basically what happened i mean my cloud score wasn’t that great i had like five thousand friends on facebook though and so i qualified and so maybe the fact that you’re justifying it shows how good of a hook this is how much i would use it all the time mcdonald’s would send me a five dollar gift card once a month right um yeah like amazing it was it was so cool i loved clout so i think that could exist and i think that could that could kick ass um i think this is like yeah i think there’s a lot of time i don’t even think you really need to do that much differently right like there’s i’m sure there’s like 20 of things you would tweak uh maybe in the execution like you know maybe you don’t have to raise that much money i think the timing is the biggest tweak that you needed to make maybe you change the way it’s calculated or the way you promote it or the business mod whatever i don’t think you need to change that much i just think that the time the time is now and like as donald trump basically created this thing called fake news i think fake news is very underrated how like big of a wave that actually was created how much distrust there is around around brands and entities now and so people are kind of like the atomic unit of a brand at this point and so yeah i think that uh that cloud cloud should be remade how about the fact that so hubspot has a hub so this one woman who works with me just got scrum certified and we paid five grand it was five thousand dollars or four thousand dollars and i’m like so scrum i i don’t even know what it is i guess it’s just like a um a project management uh yeah that’s how you manage like engineering sprints yeah and we paid five grand and i was like who the heck like is the scrum like decision maker and then i realized hubspot scrum master by the way is it really oh my god it’s much more like legit that it probably really is hubspot has hubspot certification courses and if you look on people’s linkedin they they brag about passing hubspot certification courses we gotta talk i gotta talk to us i’ll be like how did i’m like look like you guys are amazing and wonderful and legit but like you weren’t always amazing wonderful and legit you were just starting out and you somehow convinced people to trust you and take this seriously right how on earth did you do that because that’s amazing so they paid hubspot so the so hubspot is the collector of the 5000 dues for the scrum training no sorry there’s a different organization that does scrum but hubspot you’ve never seen people brag about their hubspot certification so like if you google hubspot search certification they’ve got like these classes people if they tried to brag to me about that so so that’s an immediate block so there’s like inbound sales hub stop marketing software inbound marketing and if you google people if you google like that and linkedin there’s so many people that put that on their linkedin like certified in uh whatever like there’s so many people that cite uh hubspot as their thing and so like and so they put it like you know how like one time if you look up tyra banks on linkedin she probably still does this she puts that she graduates from harvard okay she went to a harvard exact executive learning day and people probably yeah it’s like a two day look at look at if you look at tyra banks okay okay okay so she did a nine week uh program for executives called the the owner president management extension program yeah dude harvard makes it unbelievable i’m going to break this down actually next podcast harvard’s kind of whole business model around online programs harvard business review the media company i’m gonna break that whole thing down because it’s crazy i’ll do it with you i’ve studied the business review a bunch um all right can i tell you about another another idea or a person actually yeah all right there’s this guy named matt uh how do you pronounce his last name from uh which or whatever uh man i don’t want to butcher this guy mick sorry matt i like you i just don’t know how to say your last name make him like mickey and then with the wicks at the end mickey weeks all right mickey wits i’ve known about this guy for a long time but i’m gonna tell you everything that he’s done because i bet you you know all of his work but you maybe didn’t know he was the one behind it so in 1998 when he lived in australia he started this company while he was in high school called sitepoint sitepoint basically is a publisher of books courses and articles for uh developers and so you can like learn html css java ruby all that they’ve never raised any funding and they have like 50 employees i imagine if i had a bet they’d probably make five to ten maybe five to 15 million dollars a year um that’s my guess um well how do you spell it mitscovich mizkovich his name is matt mcmiskowicz um have you heard of sitepoint sitepoint.com no is that still around all right it’s still around and so like i’ve heard his story he was like basically i started this like as a forum and then a blog and people would come to my forum and blog and i was taking like 10 000 advertising checks when i was like 17 high school so i dropped out of high school and went all in on this then when he went all in on it his forum on sitepoint people were buying and selling businesses on it and so he spun out one of the the forums into his own business called flippa you’ve heard of flippa right yes so i believe that prolific he’s got really proud because you haven’t even got the two of his hits listen so we started flippa which is a marketplace for buying and selling smallish websites and stores and and things like that they’ve got millions of users flippa is like not micro acquires in the space but flippa is like considered like the thing and in fact i think they just raised a little bit of funding like 20 million dollars recently it’s got hundreds of employees it’s a pretty big business third on sitepoint he also discovered that people in the forum were uh buying and selling designs and so he started this thing called 99 designs which is amazing 99designs is one of the best sites that i’ve used it’s a great place to you basically you own 99 designs you give them a thousand dollars you tell them what you want and like a hundred designers give you a mock-up of what they think that your project should look like and then you pay for you select the one you like and they get the money so they’ve they do close to 100 million i believe in revenue they raised 45 million dollars in funding okay from there he also saw that people were hiring all types of devs so we started hired.com hired.com i think it kind of fizzled out a little bit it might still be around it’s definitely around but it kind of fizzled a little but they raised 132 million dollars in funding definitely could still be quite big so that’s pretty amazing then he now his next thing is he’s creating and so this is all has to do with site point he started site point 1998 his next thing is called unstoppable domains you know what that is i bet you know that is better than i do go ahead yeah it’s just a way to buy uh buy domains in crypto so like i have a domain that ends instead of dot com it ends in dot eth which is dot eth right so it’s a it’s a domain name service like uh it’s a domain domain i think it’s a registrar this is a domain registrar for making crypto domains and the reason it’s called unstoppable domains is because when you own that namespace nobody it’s on the blockchain nobody can sort of take it away from you nobody can switch the rules on you um it is sort of there forever so this guy matt uh mitkovic has done it i don’t think he started by the way i think he joined it which is i dm’d and when he joined it because i was like if if the guy who’s a founder of all these successful companies joins a company it’s like one of the strongest signals that there could be um like just recently uh i was saying this about uh my my friend has got david macintosh he started tenor it’s a it’s a gift keyboard sold it to google for i think a couple hundred million dollars and then he joined instacart as like one of their execs so you know like any time you’re you it’s like this person’s independently massively wealthy has they want to start their own company and they if they want to join as like not even like join his number one he wasn’t joining a ceo didn’t join a cto just cpo he was like you know maybe like in the top 10 of the insta work execs so that’s when you know like oh [ ] this is like uh there’s a jugger or not that’s the this person thinks this is a 100 billion dollar company if they’re doing that that’s crazy to me so and there’s guys let me just tell you so i dm’d and i go you join unstoppable super interesting move i said what makes you bullish on it here’s what he said i’m just going to read it out loud may or may not mean anything he goes there’s a trillion dollar asset class which is basically domains that people are navigating using the equivalent of an ip address if web encrypt if web3 and crypto is here to stay then building the identity like the the basically the address for consumers is one of the most important companies of the decade that he’s like in the normal normal web you have icann you know what icann is it’s not yeah so it’s like a it’s like a it’s like a committee which it’s kind of [ ] to me but it’s the committee that decides [ ] about the internet what domains can be you know can you have a dot photo or dot biz yeah uh domain like i can kind of decides those types of things he goes it’s one of the oldest monopolies on the internet it’s begging to be disrupted crypto gives us a way to disrupt that because it’s creating like a new a new ground where they don’t have jurisdiction they don’t have rule of law over there um that’s one of the few crypto examples or blockchain examples where i wholeheartedly agree and i think that’s actually incredibly useful and totally right i don’t know who’s going to host the domain or like how that works but i agree with that like idea because if if you’re doing something i can or whoever can can pull it yeah anyway so uh so then he was just telling me a little bit more about it but i was like yeah that’s that’s great that’s cool and i saw i bought an unstoppable domain this guy is amazing so um and get this he’s 37. he’s only 37 years old amazing this is a have you you’ve heard of him people don’t really yeah people don’t really know about this guy like or they don’t really talk about this guy but he’s it’s a pretty prolific career and he’s kind of like independent and definitely like a um he’s an independent thinker i could tell right because 99 design is actually a pretty like very novel mechanism it’s like oh what if we created kind of like a design auction right it’s the best it’s the best like we used it for our podcast thumbnail or our cover photo yes podcast we did gone through 99 designs and check this out when we did it hubspot um like had all these designers work on this stuff and they made like some pretty good logos and but we still went with uh this guy in the philippines who made this logo and it was even it was better than all of them the the trends.co website i had designed on there because like you know like when you work with a designer you don’t want to be rude to your own designer be like no this sucks can you just do exactly what i told you to do please but you can do that with a freelancer a little bit more than a full-timer so i’m a fan of 99designs and by the way it looks like there’s this guy mark who is his co-founder because it says co-founder of nine indesign’s flippa and sitepoint so it’s like that’s pretty cool i like when people create this kind of like duo it’s like yo let’s just build a bunch of companies together i find that to be like pretty inspiring uh and it tells you something about how somebody is to work with if somebody wants to keep going back in and work with you again and i’ve talked to this guy i actually invited him to hustle con two or three different times he committed and then some scheduling stuff happened and we weren’t weren’t able to make him make it happen but i’ve talked to him on the phone he’s very humble so uh i’m a big fan of this guy yeah me too um okay so he’s kind of like our our little you know internet founder of the week i don’t know we need a name for that that uh we had the billy of the week we got the blue collar side hustle we need something for just founders who are badass who have done like yeah serial serial entrepreneurs yeah this guy’s great um all right you wanna you wanna do one or two more uh yeah let’s do some other ones okay so um do you know this company guthy ranker i bet you know about it and i bet i can tell you tell me all about so last night all right so i’ve been on this i’ve been on this binge i gotta say i’ve been on this binge i i’m rereading the book that really got me into being like kind of like a startup founder can i guess can i guess yes think and grow rich no but that is a good guess especially if that’s what we’re talking about i actually haven’t read that book so i’m gonna i want to read it now after reading about guthrie ranker but um i’m rereading f four hour work week so uh your bud tim ferriss um wrote this book i got it right when i was starting my first company so i started my company before this but once i started reading it i was like oh wow this there’s people that are like me that are out there who think this way and this guy’s got like systems about this i’m just i just started figuring this stuff out this guy’s like been doing this for a decade great and i got what you call the four hour fever which is what happens right after you read the book uh it’s my own term because i i’ve given this book to maybe 50 people since and they all get the four hour fever right after i infect them with the book and um we already lived the four-hour work week so now we live it and so i’m whipped back and i’m re-reading it right i’m like okay i’d rather yeah i want to reread the classics and so i went back and rereading it and i just want to see uh you know what of it do i still believe in what of it do i disagree with what’s changed anyway it’s pretty interesting i’m taking a ton of notes and i texted you this while i was reading it i go let’s write a best-selling book 10 million copies sold the next four hour work week and then you’re like okay easy and i was like all right perfect um because i’m serious about that i’m like obsessed with this so i’ve just been writing content i’ve been writing and i’ve been reading all weekend long like i’ve just been binging like i’m up till four in the morning every night doing this and i’m like pretty convinced that we could put out like an amazing amazing book so anyways that’s like you know just calling my shot um gonna do that well don’t be surprised we’re gonna use well i want to be involved let me let’s go i i invited i wanted to do i’m like i’m doing this either way but i was like what would be the best i go what if the best writer i know partner with me on this and we trade it off chapters so like i can say something i’ll write a chapter and what i want you to do is basically i want you to read it and then you write what you would write right after you read that so it’s like uh you know like actually i totally agree with sean with this one i have my own story of how i did that or disagree i do it totally differently and i just think that if we play off of each other a little bit it can become a very interesting book because there’s not many books that are out there that are like that that may all change but that’s what’s in my head i also think that we should do there’s one book that had a pretty fundamental change in my outlook and it’s called founders at work and it was by jessica livingston the woman who started uh y combinator with uh paul graham their husband and wife and basically it was just interviews but for some reason it was really special and it was just interviews transcribed i think we could do just interviews and write our analysis and reply to the interviews and we i read that book on a plane i still remember it because there’s a chapter in there about hotmail and i just remember reading that book and being like this is awesome this is what is this what it’s like to start a company or be around people that start companies this is [ ] awesome and you know by the way i hope this podcast ends up being that for some number of people in the world but that could be our first book if you want because that’s like a pretty easy and actually amazing and could be fun i don’t even care on the details i i just know 10 million copies sold best seller for some people this is their version of for our work what for our workers what’s for me i want this to be that for like a whole you know a million people out there i think that would just be amazing so let’s talk about gun three raker can i tell you what i know and you could tell me if it’s true or not yeah explain them i i did a deep dive on them last night so uh all right let’s fill in gaps all right so they are a marketing and ip owner so they own like a it’s a business that markets other stuff they mostly don’t develop their own products but they buy products or they license them um it’s started by a guy named steven gunthri is that his name there’s a guy one of his last names gunthy guthy guffey not guppy and then the other guy’s last name is ranker so that’s and they and they started i think as early as the early 80s they’re in marketing and they basically bought infomercials and one of the first big hits was they bought the rights to the book thinking grow rich and they created infomercials and direct response copywriting ads that they put in magazines and they sold shitloads of this book like millions so then they just repeated and then they eventually bought proactive they own proact they own proactive and they own a bunch more they probably do a bill north of a billion in sales and they do the same type of model go ahead so it’s an infomercial it’s a direct response company which basically they made their name by doing infomercial based sales and they do about between one and a half to two billion in sales a year they own brands that you’ve heard they they they brought brands to market that you’ve heard of like proactive also tony robbins his kind of personal power or like audio books um thinking grow rich so okay so here’s kind of some of the cool stuff i i found out about them okay so how did it start one of the guys i think guthy he had started a company and this is how funny the world works and why really all you gotta do is just get in the game and start making [ ] happen because nobody could have predicted this path right so he starts a company that just does audio cassette production so like uh copying so like you have a cassette you want more copies of that cassette send me the send me the original recording i’ll make you a bunch of copies so it’s basically like this guy’s a [ ] like kinkos right like it’s just like a printer uh for audio cassettes and he gets this order and this guy says hey i need 200 to 250 oh sorry i don’t know why i said that this is a small number basically the guy wanted almost almost 100 000 cassettes made he goes 100 000 what are you making and um you know it ended up being 50 000 copies of a cassette that was about real estate about how to make money doing real estate investments and he’s like wow this is that’s amazing and he looked up the company and the guy was selling through infomercials so he goes to his buddy uh ranker and ranker at this time i think had his family owned like kind of like a a resort like a tennis resort or something like that so i think it could probably come from a good family so he goes hey dude this guy ordered for me 50 000 copies of this cassette it’s amazing forget making cassettes like let’s do this infomercial thing that must be amazing and so they go okay what are we going to do we need a product and so they that’s when they were like hey what’s up what’s something we’re both into it’s like they both had made their bones they both really loved this book think and grow rates so that’s when they went bought the rights to it for a hundred thousand dollars they ended up making 10 million dollars in the next three years off of sales of think and grow rich right they basically bought the right something to grow rich and they produced this infomercial they hire this football player frank tarkinton to do it they go and i by the way i watched the full 30 minute infomercial last night at four in the morning i’m like i’m like watching this thing and you can find it on youtube and it has 875 views on this video and basically it’s this infomercial and it starts with this production and it’s basically like these people it’s kind of like testimonials but they don’t tell you what the product is it’s like you know i always wanted to just own my own business i was so tired of working for somebody else and then finally i felt like this is the solution broken down into tactical steps but they don’t tell you the name right and then it’s like an interview with the founder of domino’s he’s like i never went to college i had the lowest gpa in my high school class but i read this book and afterwards you know like it became my blueprint for how i started dominos and like it’s like it’s like what’s the book what so they just get you like salivating what’s the book and then three minutes and frank tarkik comes on he says you know the richest people in the world andrew carnegie and the rothschilds and whoever else like all these people our andrew carnegie commissioned this guy to go study what the most successful people on earth the ross childs and others were doing and he went and he interviewed all of them and he packages and he packaged all that that knowledge and wisdom into a book that’s been a bestseller for years it’s the book that executives say is their secret weapon blah blah blah it’s just like so it’s like such a hard sell but that’s like what infomercials are it’s like once you get in you’re like all right i’ll bite what is it so yeah like [ ] it i’ll order the thing and so that’s how they sold think and grow rich it’s kind of like an amazing information i recommend you go watch it if you’re kind of like a marketing person by the way they bought that in 1988 so 100 grand is the equivalent of is this true only 225 000 so it’s only 2.2 x and when they uh well the takeaway here should not be like i can’t do that nowadays but actually the if you look at the infomercial and if you go and if you google like guthrie raker infomercial breakdown or if you just go and make your own and you look at you break it down and you like copy it word for word and you break down the sections and you apply that section to a sales letter right now it 100 will continue to work right like if you see their infomercial like the ladies are gonna be wearing like 1980s clothes and the guys will have weird haircuts you’re like oh my god it’s so old no it will continue to work and tv infomercials at the time was like dirt cheap so they were babe when they did the thinker girl which they just bought tv space in six small tv markets and like you could buy the midnight slot the 2am slot and these are basically like is essentially free they needed some programming to fill air time and so these started out really really cheap now it’s gotten much more expensive right so like let’s take proactive i think proactive at its heyday or you know kind of like some you know this maybe 10 year old data at this point but they were spending about 250 million dollars a year just on the media buying so just on the infomercial space and then they’re spending like because if you go if you watch a proactive thing it’s like justin bieber was their like signature person right because proactive was basically saying hey teens you don’t need you don’t have to have acne you can get rid of your acne this way and justin bieber was like you know the teen idol with great skin and so it was like uh justin bieber and adam levine and like you know the maroon 5 guy like there’s all these people right britney spear i don’t know who else it was but they would get paid five to ten million dollars to appear in a proactive infomercial like crazy money for for an influencer like that’s a big influence or spend and so this is just influencer marketing done like at level 12 as i like to say right like what is that what is the maxed out version of this proactive is the maxed out version of it and so they own like a bunch of brand they own like glow by j.lo it’s like you want jlo skin by j.lo’s glow then it’s like oh you want uh this other supermodel skin buy her thing it’s like very much around skin care because that i guess is like one of the like you know that’s like the sweet spot of like price big market and celebrity endorsements go a long way the two big niches are fitness or i would say three skin care fitness self-help so like tony robbins became like a household name using this on the self-help side on the fitness side they had a bunch of different brands and then beachbody took the same playbook and they created p90x and the beachbody program using the same same idea they became competitors there’s a guy i’m trying to think of what what’s it called it’s called uh mind something i’m trying to look it up but basically there’s a guy it’s not mind body but it’s similar to that word i can’t remember what it was mine valley you knew exactly mind i was talking about there’s a guy like the philippines or thailand or i don’t know where they’re based yeah there’s some i don’t want to be disrespectful but there’s some weird stuff going on with this company i don’t know what the truth is but basically if you look at this company mindvalleymindvalley.com he does this now and basically this company what they do they probably do 50 million a year in sales and what they do is they buy programs from people so they have one called life book one called om ombana i think that’s a yoga thing and then they have ever coach which is uh i actually don’t know what some of these services are but they have a bunch of these and what they do is they find people who have like a yoga course or some type of program on so they have programs on sleep they’ve got programs on yoga on uh meditation health wellness and hippie dippy [ ] you know it’s like a combination of like very legit to like uh you know like tantric astrology or whatever you know like it could be anything and they’re experts on long-form copywriting which is basically an infomercial and they’re really good at buying traffic and they make tens of millions of dollars a year in revenue all bootstrapped and so if you want to look at the internet version of this there’s also agora which is a 1.5 billion dollars and another version of this is uh we have a guy named craig is craig clements we had a guy named craig clemons his business is called golden hippo they own i think eight or nine brands and i think if i remember correctly didn’t he say they do like mid nine figures in revenue yeah i think i think gold and hippo or our buddy craig company i think it’s on par with guthrie ranker um in terms of like sort of like success uh i i think other record does does over a billion in sales so you know it’s it’s the next level but golden hippo is that from the internet for you for the internet instead of instead of tv infomercials they basically just do it with like long-form blogs and then long-form embedded videos so if you ever like go down the rabbit hole like i’ve tried to do it i’ve tried to figure out like look at some of his brands they hide their brands they hide them really hard to find but when you do find one you’re like oh okay and then it’s hard to find where they advertising it’s like okay so they buy a display ad through taboola on some random article and it’s for a toe cream toe fungus removal and then you click that and then you watch a 40 minute video that auto plays with no pause or skip button and then by the end of that you’re like god damn like you know if you ended up making it there you’re almost certainly going to buy this token then you subscribe to the sms is and you get like text messages from this legit doctor who you know is the face of the brand it’s kind of like the the the the um like rodan and fields is another one which spun out of gun three riker it’s basically like two they created proactive so i think it’s two dermatologists that created the formula for proactive and then they left it created rodan and fields which is a multi-level marketing company that does this that created their own they created new formulations and this one they owned a 100 i think that’s a multi-billion dollar company as well and if you’re on your computer listening to this one of golden hippo’s brands is called uh gundry md i think dr steven gundry uh a lot of people he’s kind of famous i think he’s not famous in my world but i think he’s famous in like kind of mainstream world actually gundrymd.com is their website go to that website and look at this website and it they make it look like it’s a small like almost thing first thing peak mobility plus it’s all about you mobility you love mobile mobility and they even sell dog food it’s like it’s it’s a pretty wild business and i think this is their most popular brand this brand if you told me does 100 million in sales i actually wouldn’t be surprised but if you didn’t know better you go to it you would have no idea right and this is all about like gut health plant-based you know plant-based eating uh stuff like that and so like you know i get their text messages all the time like don’t you know don’t get leaky gut syndrome like buy this thing and uh so you know it’s very fascinating and the reason i like bringing these up or like what you brought up i think all the companies you brought up today are cool because if you work in our our like most of our friends who are like successful internet entrepreneurs tech people silicon valley executives at big tech companies they will have never heard of any of this in fact i did a breakdown of one of golden hippos flows um and i sent it to all the execs at twitch i go hey i went down the rabbit hole of this like they laughed at you they laughed at you they were just like ha fascinating and they went back to doing like you know spending millions of dollars on facebook ads that just said download twitch and it’s like okay like you know like is there any creativity we could do here like to try to like like i just showed you one of the most creative things and like nobody really cared nobody asked any follow-up questions some people were just like huh cool to me it was it’s crazy to me and so like so i feel like there’s a lot you can learn from from these kind of under the radar brands or non-traditional and a lot of people just write them off they’re like oh infomercial sleazy affiliate marketing sleazy mlm sleazy and like you may be right about like the the sort of like that that these aren’t the best products that they’re maybe the best sold products but look i’m trying to get great at sales so why would i not look at the best sold products it’s like a no-brainer to me this was a good one i think yeah i think it’s a good one uh this is definitely sort of like unusual slash potentially gray hat trust and untrust trustworthy businesses um you know i think i think it’s gonna be entertaining so yeah can we wrap up with well let me wrap up first of all gun three raker is amazing i would love to see your notes on that if you can share them um also i want to wrap up with one thing that you on twitter you said you wouldn’t call me to invest in your company because i’m risk adverse you you said this and i want to explain myself because that was a dig at me i don’t think you meant to be rude but i took it as you being rude and i think that a lot of our friends call me this as well you guys are so wrong i just don’t take dumb breath so here here’s my philosophy listen here’s my philosophy so from age 20 i said by 30 i’m gonna make enough money that i never have to worry about money ever again you’re not and so that’s when i started my company many would say that was incredibly risky i would say compared to the average joe it was but it wasn’t that risky the reality it wasn’t that risky then i got the money and i invest in safe stuff but here’s the thing when i find [ ] that i love i go all in on it i just what you and a lot of our friends do is they go they go to they spread their [ ] like wild i try to go all in on a couple of things so i think i don’t think i’m risky a risk adverse i think that i just pick and choose them differently yeah that’s true like okay let’s say uh let’s say i’m starting a company uh and i think i think i know what your answer would be let’s see if i was starting a company and um let’s say i either didn’t have an idea i decided i’m gonna start a company or i said it’s gonna be in this space but i don’t know exactly what or i said an idea that you’re like i don’t even get that or that sounds kind of dumb or fuzzy to me um would you just invest then or would you want to wait because you know i would let you in at any point so you’re like you could well i would ask one question are you going all in and this is going to be your only focus yeah if the answer is if the answer is yes i would be like i wouldn’t raise money i wouldn’t even ask the valuation i would just say okay so that’s what i think the answer is and that’s kind of the so the person asked a good question i did a twitter kind of like i don’t know like an ama um where i was like yo just shoot me questions my wife took the kids out to target i got an hour i want some immediate rush of twitter love let’s just do some q a and the person said you’re raising money for a company who you’re who’s the first person you call and i i said all right i said like here’s my first five phone calls and i basically name them name them uh i don’t really remember what i said so i i’ll tell you silly silly ali i totally agree with that he’s an amazing operator very good investor scott belski amazing investor good signal to everyone uh the third was uh justin called back i think i had on there who’s a i don’t know him well but he’s an amazing investor and then i had uh biology i think i had on there they put both down okay obvious reasons yeah pretty much then i had one more person who else is on there i can’t find the tweet i forget who that fifth person was as well but i i’m not offended that i didn’t make that list i’m offended that people think that i’m risk adverse okay and and i had a friend text me he goes do people think you’re risk adverse and i was like oh i think they do but i think they’re like the first person i had was michael burch the person who backed me with my previous company so that yeah that would be my first so here’s my like in reality you know i’m answering these questions fast in reality i would actually not uh like two people who would uh two people who i would not actually go to first would not be scott belsky or biology right because two reasons i don’t actually know them that well they’re not like my homies they’re like from you know like biology i consider like yeah we’re kind of friends but we never like hung out yeah we’re cordial uh scott belski same sort of thing like even even even more distance actually and so like you know respect but you know i can’t say this is like my homie and so in reality my first five calls would be to to like you sully michael birch uh you know ramon like a bunch of our like my true friends who i’m like hey i’m doing something like yeah it’s basically like family exactly and so that’s like the true answer uh for twitter you know i kind of like i didn’t want to put only people that people would not like not recognize their names you know a couple people that they would know in there um and there’s also kind of aspirational like who would i want to be in my company i think scott belsey is an amazing product person so i think that’s just like an amazing person to have on there i think bollywood and he’s like the greatest and i mean he’s one of the best angel investors right so he’s done well and i think it’s well connected so i think that’s useful to have and i think uh biology also is like a different kind of signal so super obviously like hyper intelligent uh he comes from the future so that’s helpful in general and i think that um i think that having him adds credibility because if you only have your friends there it doesn’t help you get the next investor on board necessarily because they look at who else is invested and if they don’t see a name that they recognize that they respect that they don’t it hasn’t been like kind of like they don’t see the harvard stamp of approval on there so you need that mix in there so that’s my justification for it but yeah in reality i of course would call you i know but you said i don’t care about that i care about oh then i told other people that you’re risk-averse i think that’s crazy i think i put the smiley face that means it’s a joke the smiley face means it’s a joke oh my god you think that i’m ready and and to just i’m gonna wrap it up with thomas scott belsky scott belski his grandpa started kaplan kaplan really no way i did not know that yeah his grandpa started kaplan sold that for like 80 or 100 million dollars in like i think the 80s or 90s so it’s like you know that’s like the equivalent of like 300 then when he was 24 he invested fifteen thousand dollars into pinterest when it was worth three million dollars and fifteen thousand dollars into uber when it was worth three million dollars he did this while he was running his company called behance which was mostly bootstrapped until like six months before they sold it they raised a series a but prior to that it was bootstrap and when he sold it he owned i think 75 of it he sold it for like 150 million dollars um and then so he made probably 100 million from the sale probably 100 million on uber and 100 million on pinterest or give or take 50 percent and now he’s next in line to become ceo at adobe uh which is like the 40th largest company in the world yeah total gangster and good dude just fun fun hang which is financially successful uh whenever i met with him i met with him uh a while ago and like he’s like really good looking he dresses really nice and he’s like [ ] dreamy he’s like so optimistic and so happy and whenever he like talked i was just like dude whatever you say yeah he looks like the guy from maroon 5 adam levine exactly he looks like that guy he’s very good looking and he’s nice as hell he’s really nice yeah okay we should we should wrap it up uh before we just totally you know totally uh i i heard gay for gay foreign that would like be appropriate to say my mind only went to uh dirty words so i’m gay for belski i’m hardcore gay for him i like him all right we’re out of here travel never looking back