Episode of My First Million with Sam Parr and Shaan Puri.
Transcript
Note: This transcript was auto-generated from YouTube captions. It may contain errors and lacks speaker identification. A full Gemini audio transcript will replace this.
Kind: captions Language: en no it just started as a side hustle like i was in a basement in san francisco that was like yo i i have a theory about what i think will be big and i want to make 3 000 bucks a month never was it like i want to make millions of dollars or i want to have a bunch of people or i want to have a bunch of customers [Music] how are you sam how are you today i’m good what are you doing well i just got back from albuquerque i was hanging out with my family and then uh i just got home and there’s like back-to-back meetings before we go to the trail of lights tonight in austin i know i neville and neil i’ve heard all about you guys are going to have some exciting times tonight did um do you wait you weren’t working today like a normal schedule uh i actually work really best in airplanes so i got up worked in the airplane landed and just been kind of back-to-back meetings now until 6 30. do you enjoy having a normal schedule now it um i had some trauma you know by the way like silicon valley tech worker trauma is like my boss didn’t give me a 20 raise it was a 10 raise and i am traumatized like when i worked at intel all i did was meetings and it was like and i was like this is the worst thing ever and now i’m i’m in all i do is meetings but then you know i will i will say though today i was in some meetings and i was interacting and i was like man i love you people there’s some meetings where they suck and you have to figure out how to get rid of them or change the meeting and there’s somewhere it’s like wow we’re business forward like there’s things that are happening that are making [ ] happen in the business so noah you noah kagan’s here founder of this company called appsumo which we’ll talk about in a second but you basically like you you kind of i don’t know do you say you stepped away you weren’t like actively running the company day to day for like a couple years now you’re the ceo again i so i was active for a long time now i’m not active it’s amazing it’s the best i don’t know like i don’t think i have it in me at least not right now to go back and do that do you think that you have it in you uh it’s hard it’s it’s i mean i was not working i mean it sounds such like an ass stuff but like i wasn’t really working i was doing podcasts which isn’t really working and um i was making a lot of money and now i’m working i actually think i’ll make the least i’ve made this year wait what what does that mean you’re making a lot of money from what well eamonn so we hired this guy to run appsumo.com he was running it and i was like oh well let me make youtube videos and i’ll do podcasts and i’ll like build send fox and experimental stuff and then i would get paid and then eamon wanted to step out and uh to be an advisor and i stepped in and now i’m having to do all his work i will say and then yeah i think i’ll make less money this year two things with that one sometimes when you criticize another because i criticize damon a lot um but just like productive just like you could be better you could be better yeah like jewish why are you doing this yeah yeah jewish mother like noah why not your your cousin so you could have been like your brother he’s a doctor and uh um one under being in his shoes definitely makes me uh respect him so much more but just a lot just a lot like he is a very impressive guy also get a deal with me but i’d say the second thing is that um the work now is harder it’s hard but it’s much more rewarding and so i was even writing that down in my diary this morning i said dear diary hard work is rewarding noah you have the weirdest so like you talk about having a diary you always talk about going to therapy which is no big deal these these all these things are great but you act like a tough guy sometimes and then you talk about like uh oh you got to complain to your diary you kind of i think you know i think of myself like a chinese dish i’m like sweet and sour pork you know like you’re not really supposed to have pork as a jew and then sometimes it’s sweet and then sometimes you’re like kind of sour it’s just like it’s a it’s a mixed bag it’s a variety it’s uh entertaining you’re uh since i’ve known you now for i think like eight or nine years and you’ve all you’re you’re cagey with numbers so i don’t want to push you if you don’t want to be pushed can you talk about how big you guys are now given i mean in your youtube video i think you said 100 million in revenue yeah we’re not going to hit it we actually missed our goal this year um it’s going to be less than that it’s weird you said 80 in another video what i think because someone doesn’t want to tell you how much they make as a cage yes i don’t think that’s wrong though i don’t like talk i don’t talk about a lot of stuff either i say like round numbers sometimes or i’ll just say i don’t want to talk about that all right how much did you sell the hustle for let’s try these let’s try kg numbers tens of millions of dollars uh yeah i mean how much do you make a year now working at hubspot well i get paid uh i got i get paid a whole lot of stock but my base salary i think is only 250 000 maybe only well my stock is is significant i will say this is you know in all these shows nowadays and crypto people they’re always like this is not financial less i’m gonna give financial advice i buy a lot of hubspot stock i think it’s one of the most undervalued stocks on the market so dude by the way when they bought us i think it was um they were worth 17 billion dollars or 16 billion dollars in late january around when they bought us i think today it’s 40. so yeah that’s gone up a lot so and that’s why when people ask how much we sold for i’m like well we sold we i basically i got tens of millions in cash and then i also got hubspot stock but it’s already it’s it’s up significantly since we sold so and i don’t know like what price do you say and yeah sorry i don’t know and i don’t love exactly saying where are we gonna ask who’s wealthier you or sean oh dude i don’t i don’t know i i hear i’ll tell you this we did a podcast we did a podcast recently and i basically said my goal was to make at least 20 million dollars by the age of 30. and i did that dude good for you and that was the goal but you know like i i also don’t i own assets now in the in some real estate and i own hubspot stock and airbnb stock but like you own appsumo which an 80 million dollar your business do you think you’re worth two or three hundred million dollars i think epsom is worth somewhere between a quarter billion and a billion dollars isn’t that crazy uh yeah i don’t really look at that as part of my net worth i just look at my own it’s interesting we’ve talked about this a little bit like i think there’s silicon valley entrepreneurs that think about your valuation of a company and then there’s me and you who are normal people that are like what’s your profit what’s your revenue all right you’re worth a million not like oh well the multiple is this if they say multiple they’re silicon valley well uh i mean you guys would sell for if you’re if you’re if you think you’re if you said that you’re going to do in the range of 80 million in revenue i mean i don’t know how i would value that five times profits or five times that number i guess right i don’t know man it’s a it’s a little surreal i and i don’t i’m not sure how different my life would be my brother did ask me he’s like if you were to sell you know how much would you sell for and i was like i don’t know like if it was a billion that’s like and i think people don’t realize that like when mark zuckerberg i worked at facebook and i heard uh catherine’s like shut up talking about that but you got to give him credit man he turned down a billion dollar offer at 24. yeah he’s crazy like dude you took the first offers anyone offered you no i didn’t but but like yeah it was like eager i mean i think i said i would love i say that with love dude no we we we had a few other ones but it was a good one and i knew that hubs i didn’t know i was betting that hubspot stock was a good buy and i think that i just like i’m not zuck i i i can’t imagine working dude he gets do you think his life is enjoyable i can’t imagine it’s enjoyable no i mean i guess he enjoys it but i i just think that that’s hell to me that’s why he has to have a virtual character enjoy it more for him yeah i don’t know i mean like we have you and i have this buddy we remember that one time we were out to eat and you could say i don’t know you’re he’s your friend so you could tell me if you want to say his name but he was like noah you’re not growing at three times a year what the [ ] you’re leaving so much on the table and you’re like dude i just went mountain biking like on a tuesday and then on wednesday i like did this and then on thursday i did this we’re gonna make like 80 million in revenue this year and i own most of it i’m so happy and he was criticizing you as a friend and uh and i was like no is he is he crazy like you you got it this is perfect this is don’t change this is perfect it’s um i i don’t know i guess how you want to live do you think that i guess that changes over the right and i think what what’s that no no how you want to live i mean i think in your 20s you’re just like scrambling and wanting to i know for me i wanted to prove myself i wanted to have status i wanted to have it and then as your 30s you know i’m still doing it no i’m just like you know you you figure out more what really gives you fulfillment i think everyone’s got their own stuff i think figuring it out for yourself is a really tough thing you um how many people work there 100 i think now we have 140 isn’t that crazy it’s yeah yeah it is crazy do you like it it was just started as a side oh sorry am i cutting you off dude no keep going i want to hear from you i just started as a side hustle like i was in a basement in san francisco that was like yo and i want to make 3000 bucks a month why three thousand a month a thousand was for living a thousand was for eating and a thousand was for saving that’s funny that’s almost exactly what i did too it was about that number um did you well how big do you think it was going to get i never thought that far ahead i mean there’s a go for it i keep interrupting you i’m sorry go ahead that’s all good man well like there’s a there’s a quote i read by paul graham and it was like if you’re so worried about what’s gonna your company’s gonna be in 10 years like you’re never going to make sure you can take care of your customers today and your business won’t exist in 10 years so don’t worry about it and i just kind of i guess that’s how that’s that’s served me well i think someone asked me they’re like what did it take to become a millionaire and i think one of the things for me was just like following the curiosity and i was like curious about all the stuff that like that we me and you get paid for yeah i mean i’m in the same boat i think when i having 140 employees would i don’t know if it would freak me out but like i remember do you still look at your payroll when you pay it every two weeks well so do you want to just tell you the call i literally that’s why i was late to the podcast yeah because i’m you know we’re we’re taking the whole team out to costa rica and then we’re also we’re it was some spend for advertising it was like 50 000 and i’m just like yes we make revenue but at the end of the day if you don’t have income and you’re not a funded business you’re gonna go out of business and so i think it’s figuring out how do you create you know checks and balances so i’m not stressing about it weekly but there’s definitely some net income issues that are keeping me up and then we’re doing budgeting projections and the [ ] up things budgeting is if you budget for 100 million to 120 million whatever 150 and you spend on that and you don’t make it then yeah you get kind of [ ] too i think that you and i are similar in that like when when i see the so i’ll like say yeah i want to i think we can hit 100 million in revenue and then they say all right well then we have to spend 80 million dollars and i look at it and i’m like oh my god what the hell what is this 50 000 expense what is this 10 000 expense are you crazy we can’t do this this is ridiculous and i get fearful i think that’s the cool thing about having a guy like amen where he’s a little bit less attached this company called nerdwall you know nerdwallet yeah tim chen uh gave me a little bit of money to start the hustle and it was his idea to give me money he was like hey can i give you some money to start this and uh i took it and they just went public at like three or four billion in valuation and i went to him one day i go tim we’re spending 80 000 a month in expenses we’re making more than that but like that’s crazy he goes man it’s just an excel number like it’s just an it’s just it’s a spreadsheet you it has an input and an output that’s all you should care about you shouldn’t actually care that it’s 80 thousand dollars a month and i still find myself freaking out over that stuff and so for you let’s say i don’t i don’t know i imagine your payroll is like 10 40 50 million dollars a year or something like that or your payroll and marketing expenses i would i flip out when i think about that because that’s all basically your money whereas with amen or someone else you could be you could be more detached yeah i mean eamonn always cared and eamon i have a lot of respect and admiration for him and he’s still very involved i i think the way that i’ve tried to approach it generally is two pieces number one when does the red flag need to be triggered so every week we have a monday kpi sheet that they update our gross margin they update like customers and so there’s color coding and it’s like okay are there red flags in any of the numbers that i need to call [ ] on and i think that that obviously reduces your anxiety and it helps you make sure that you’re trusting but verifying i think the second thing around it is that how much if something is a profitable spend how much should you spend it depends on it all depends on a lot of different stuff but if you’re spending money and you’re making 30 profit go all in hunt there’s no budget it’s unlimited and i think that’s part of the question with the spending for me is that where is our spending very profitable like is it in marketing is in development is in sales is it in the partner success team or is there things like that that should be more like aws where they’re they’re a little bit more scalable up and down and they’re not as profitable so we need to be mindful of that how big do you think this business could get in like 10 or 20 years do you have do you ever think about that i’m just trying to survive to next year dude i mean you know it’s funny we’ve had as we’ve grown and it’s been interesting because i have my youtube channel which is a very small team of like five people and then we have appsumo which is a larger thing i come back to the why right like on appsumo it’s very simple we promote dope tools at great prices and we help people start and grow online businesses appsumo.com i think we have to come back to that because we were like we’re gonna be in five years i’m like probably helping people grow and start online businesses no i know you’re going to be doing the same thing but like the revenue was i mean we were yeah we we went to the spreadsheet and we tripled numbers silicon valley double double triple triple from in and out and uh we became a billion dollar company revenue in like five years or something like that i i think right now candidly some of our mechanics in terms of the scalable business means as we add partners do we get customers and this business grow the how do i sit more clearly it’s just not adding up like we added more partners this year and the proportional amount of customers did not come with that and so we have to work a little bit more on that flywheel which is well i think that you must with trends so we had trends our subscription service we [ ] crushed it during coven we crushed it and i now sales slow down a little bit i think it’s cyclical but in this the like i bet if i had a bet covid was like the best times you ever had um cope was great man i thought it was just great in general right i thought it brought there’s a lot of good about cover just about humanity and not the death part maybe but like the bringing people closer i don’t know man i’ve been doing the internet [ ] since 2004 i’ve never had a recession and it’s not that i have some superpower but it’s like well the only way to not have recession is just keep doing things that people want and basically i think one of the other key things to kind of consider is how do you have discipline when times are good so you don’t have to be as disciplined when times are bad and i think right now candidly with appsumo i think we’re being a little bit undisciplined with our spending and our hiring because times have been better and i’m trying to get that a little bit more tighter whether the you know the future is good or not why is your youtube team so big five people i don’t even think it’s that big mr beast is like 100 people no way you think he has 100 employees at least 50 full-time at least 50 full-time 100 contractors yeah and are they what’s his name the mr beast jimmy jimmy are they all like it’s cause it’s like the jimmy show right so it’s like whatever he wants you do i think that’d be weird to have 50 employees where it’s like hey guys next week i’m thinking i want to do this the reason i would hate that is because then you’ve got someone like hey jimmy what if we had a rolling stone song in the background no i don’t want that just like let me do what i want to do please just like fulfill that it’s a so we have a head of staff and one thing i’ve never one thing i hate i hate when someone’s like hey can you remind me about this and i’m like no [ ] just write it down i just told you you want me to remind you like do your job but i will say you know becoming ceo which i never called myself over the years until recently and uh is that there is times you’re like yo remind me and you’re like oh my god you’re gonna remind me her name’s anna who’s head of staff she’s phenomenal and then with the youtube channel i’m like hey i want you to come back with more ideas come go pitch me 10 more ideas go go and they come back i’m like this is the best ever and so i think it is figuring out you know what areas you like to play in and then being around people that you’re just consistently impressed with but having people that’ll do help you figure out [ ] oh god it’s epic are you getting noticed on the street no not just really you don’t it varies in austin you know it’s kind of our hometown so i think more people do it um not not actually not even though the channel’s gotten bigger we doubled this year i actually used to get noticed a lot at the gym the guy hey bro i’m like hey i don’t know i’m always still excited when people came to come and say hi i just got uh did you get recognized yeah weekly i just this like this morning just walking down the street and uh it makes me a little nervous sometimes because i’m like thinking i gotta like uh like like like uh i love smoking cigars and i’ll just walk around smoking cigars and i’m like i don’t want people to see me smoking it makes me a little nervous don’t you think it’s flattering i’m always so i always feel honored that like i feel like i’ve worked on yeah something i’ve worked on has impacted this person and they’re excited to to say hi to me like who who have you seen that you’ve said hi to that you’re a little nervous the other day i saw logan paul and i and i and i respect logan paul and i said what’s up and i just i just pounded and i go and i just pounded it while i was walking by she’s huge drew logan’s huge was this year new york when i was in or i guess it wasn’t the other day about two or three months ago i saw him and i and i respect it i respect what he built and he was a big old dude and i i i could have stopped and be like hey like this is what i do for a living your brother was on my thing and i probably we probably got friends of friends but i was honestly kind of nervous and i just like just pounded it when i walked away well you i’m sure i’ll do a twitter thing like hey i want to have logan on the show but anyways that’s that’s awesome man did you see my twitter thread about when i met the silk road guy no you didn’t see that i posted it the other day i was looking through old dropbox pictures and um or go to my instagram or something you’ll see it and uh i posted your yeah i want you to see it it’s me with ross albright the guy from silk road oh i think i remember that story you posted about it yeah i talked about it like here but i was looking through old dropbox pictures and i found the pictures of us together and i originally took them down off facebook because i was nervous but now it’s no big deal and i posted the pictures about how i met this guy named ross at a party and we just chit-chatted and he got arrested like a months later and i know i recognized him and i was like oh my god that was ross the guy we hung out with at the party how much better is your life now being rich it did you you know that 70 thousand dollar um that 70 000 study i’ve heard that it sounds like [ ] to me it’s [ ] it’s way better it’s way better it’s significantly better it’s significantly better i think like i still worry about stuff and i was just talking to my friend about this today and i was like why am i nervous about this and that i told neville i go neville get neville bought this 800 vacuum and i was like i went to up to his house to borrow it and i was like i can’t buy one of these it’s 800 it’s too expensive and he’s like why are you worrying about that i’m like i don’t know it freaks me out i’m afraid to buy stuff do you have that yeah well i think two things are interesting one i went to the grocery store i was with my parents you know for thanksgiving my mom we get grapes i really into green grapes lately and she’s like noah these are really expensive today let’s not get them i’m like deborah it’s your birthday i’m going to treat you you get two of them so i don’t i have no problems anything that’s health related i’ll buy i don’t know i’m still mindful of it i think what’s fascinating on the other side of it sam is like i mentioned it to you on text but you didn’t want me to talk about it which is like crypto and nft crap which all these you know former shopify store owners now are crypto experts which is funny i like trade and i’ll make or i’ll buy something and make like a hundred dollars or i’ll lose like a thousand and i’m like not devastated but what’s the same they’re like appsumo like we promote partners and you know we’ll do like a million dollars in a day and the partners make like 700 000 and our customers are happy and i’m like well that’s cool yeah it’s it’s funny there’s a phrase it’s called a a penny poor pound rich i think right or uh yeah something like that do do you uh we’re talking about crypto but you don’t actually buy crypto right you just bought a bunch at one time and you held on to no well two things one thing i want to highlight this is a phrase that chad said my business partner at appsumo.com you like how i plug it um he actually had this phrase that was great he’s like noah don’t confuse the ant hills for the mountains i was like damn that’s good and he’s like when we’re doing work at appsumo and you know the different products we’ve built or you know whatever it is he’s like is this a macro thing or a micro thing and let’s do the macro thing let’s get some [ ] mountains man he’s like don’t sweat this [ ] stuff and i’m like all right but that’s hard man especially i i was telling someone recently where there’s all these productivity tools and everyone’s all these everyone’s always like what’s the latest pretty i’m like you’re not even doing anything like don’t worry about the calendar and the productivity tool worry about just doing important things this is the best productivity tool the back of an envelope that’s damn it’s a good that gets the job done oh my crypto thing yeah i buy i’m a boring investor so i think there’s active income and passive income and i try to focus on my active so i just started buying in 2015 and i just put it on autopilot and i just auto bought it every month for the past six years and it’s like made up of a substantial i mean you’ve you’ve done well with it i think which is pretty great i’ll tell you the number on that that i don’t mind well okay i mean you can i don’t have to tell you it’s fine i if i had a bet can i can i guess oh yeah or i’ll be kg i would guess between one and two million not four million but it’s four million isn’t that nuts i well it’s always so funny because then you’re like yesterday i was this weekend i was like disappointed i didn’t buy crypto punks when my buddy was like you should buy it buy it dude but it was like 50 000 and i’m like that’s [ ] crazy to buy status and imagery and like it’s an investment it’s only investment when it goes up it’s gambling when it goes down well the nfts i think are mostly [ ] stupid oh don’t get me started dude i just went on a deep hole are you on board or not dude i just got scammed i lost my i’m like i can’t i don’t even know what happened for the past two weeks i’m like yesterday i woke up at 8 am to buy apes i just spent 1600 on apes what of the of the 4 million in crypto how much did you what’s your what’s your basis there um i could pull it up it’s probably maybe about half a million or four hundred thousand isn’t that amazing is it is that crazy uh yeah well i think i’ve always just it’s interesting because i’ve always not always when i started using it i was like oh i can see why this is going to be big um but yeah the return on it as an investment is pretty insane that’s nuts what else and like what else could do that like some public equity equities uh but you don’t even angel invest do you i mean angel invest could do that it just takes forever yeah it’s not i mean i think the best investment for everyone is their own business so if you look at it like active income like really creating your own company has pretty much the highest multiples i can imagine also you can control it if you can get something to work because most of them don’t work that well yeah but you got to grind sometimes often i talked to this guy i was biking on saturday and this guy named nick he’s like man i got a grind and i was like how much do you i was like how much does he make he makes he’s like 60k and i was like why don’t you you know it doesn’t i don’t care i’m not judging him how much it’s like but if you’re gonna grind at least grinding something has higher upside for yourself because it’s the same amount of work like he doesn’t work harder than me i don’t work harder than him i just worked on something that from a strictly financial perspective has a better opportunity when you’re working with eamonn so eamonn uh is uh was your ceo good friend my good friend too when how often would you talk to him it varied like it varied probably like once a week on fridays and then one a little bit throughout the week but they actually kept me out of slack they kept me out of everything because it’s kind of like a noise like my mom’s a jewish mother it’s like noah what’s that on the screen what is that it’s better to be out and i think that’s probably the reason he wanted to step out and this is i don’t think we’re airing our private stuff wait he wants to step out because you were nagging him yeah i think to some extent i don’t think anyone feels really excited no one wakes up like excited you know unless it’s some weird kink uh to be like hey oh what are you doing today and i think there’s probably a little bit too much of that uh do you think that i mean i have i’ve had people quit for that reason i do the same thing you and i are very similar you know that right and i did the same thing where i’m like why are you doing this what’s going on today what are you doing right now today like what actions can we take immediately to fix x y and z and i think you need both you need that urgency but like if you have a good if you have a winner you do gotta let them chill and get it done do you think that eamonn whenever i have hired people to run stuff i always i get i freak out i’m like this guy’s gonna when he finds out that i’m like profiting off their work like they’re gonna bail this is so unfair and i hope they don’t figure this out did you freak out about that i used to have a lot of that where i never would post anything on social same like i wouldn’t post any activity i wouldn’t post like my you know our youtube videos like hell i made my first million like i would never say [ ] about that and eventually uh i got to a point where i was like well am i helping these people do their best lives at the company or what i can am i do my best to pay them whatever they want so like with eamon i’m not going to share his numbers but i asked him i was like how much do you want to make and he said numbers and he made more than that and so i never really felt this never felt guilt because that guy got more than he wanted and i got well too but i think within the company it’s also people are free to work wherever so it’s like how do you create an environment that people are like yo that guy’s doing well and i’m doing well are you interested in any projects right now you had send fox did you shut down send fox uh no we’re still writing send fox.com it’s a mailchimp alternative um what do you like what type of projects are keeping you up the two things that i’m i mean number one is appsumo so you know becoming more of a marketplace so you buy or sell software tools books and then the second stuff is like all this nft stuff is mind-blowing there’s just so much so sam i think like you you kind of smirk and you know i at first i think that’s what a lot of people have done with it the same with crypto when i was buying in 2015 we were like i don’t i don’t fully get it but there’s something just interesting same when i joined facebook when i joined facebook you were like you’re gonna go work at a social network okay same you know it seems weird but there’s just a lot of these really interesting use cases that uh i’m very tempted and i’m very excited about right what use cases so some of the really interesting ones one is called city dao so basically everyone pulls their money and then they buy a city so they bought land in wyoming and now if you own one of the nfts or tokens within it you get votes to what they’re going to do with the city so i find i find that really fascinating plus everything’s public so you see who’s voting you see what the votes are there’s not much hidden there’s other ones that i’ve liked one’s called head dow it’s kind of a stupid-ass one i think conceptually it’s really interesting i don’t know if it’s run well um but what i like about it is it is a uh fund where you buy their nfts so there’s ten thousand everyone buys an nft and if you hold the nfts um and the fund goes and buys stuff and based on your nft you get some return for whatever the the fund invests in so it’s kind of like a index fund of crypto and other assets so i think there’s just something what’s the city one called city dao the who’s who’s organizing it city dow i don’t know but it’s all public for the most part but there’s just there’s so much stuff like that like think about this you can do housing so like right now housing is like noah owns a contract goes to the thing and all this well it’s like you can have a house that’s shared by a thousand people or like roblox or minecraft and the game stuff is really interesting where it’s like there’s not like facebook and twitter that get everything or roblox it’s like the creators and the consumers own the whole thing same with appsumo like how can we create it so the whole customer base owns appsumo so they’re incentivized even to start doing apps more i guess it’s kind of like owning a share in amazon but kind of on a deeper level are you have you ever like paid money to be part of like a membership group like uh tiger21 or anything like that not yet i’ve always not yet so there’s this thing called uh what’s it called friends with benefits have you seen that i’ve heard of it what is this and so i think the market cap is like hundreds of millions at this point and so it was basically a a soho house online so like cool new york young people paid either 500 or a thousand or two thousand dollars to be part of an online group that held meetups and it was like hot people and [ ] young people wearing vans and supreme and [ ] like cool kid [ ] it was uh you know you had to buy an nft or a coin to join the the community and you’re incentivized to make the community awesome because people could sell their membership or like give it up and it could be worth more than when they initially bought in that and i think that’s interesting there’s just a lot of you i mean it’s still so early so what’s gonna like what’s gonna like after the dust settles and the consolidation of all the junk because i’ll tell you i jumped in there’s all this discord discord you know it’s like slack for juvenile delinquents dude it’s so hard to figure out i feel so old it’s not just that it’s just hard to use and then it’s just like so spammy like i go in it and they’re like there’s just a lot going on in the space and so trying to try not to rush into anything but just understand like all right i think appsumo we did a good job where people are like i want to start businesses i want tools and it’s like how is entrepreneurship and startups and stuff evolving and there’s definitely something where there’s so much money and there’s so much speed being happening in this crypto nft space um that i find just i don’t know at this current time i’m like obsessed with the guy or the people setting up the town in wyoming how are they going to make a profit how did they get paid so there’s a lot of different dude there’s all these different i fully don’t understand every single one out there um i’m not biology what they do is a few different things so one they could keep some of the assets so when they so they do a few different things when you mint the tokens or the nfts to give out you people buy into it so when i create the baseball cards and i sell it to you it’s like one each each to for you to buy i the the city dow keeps all that and then they could decide how much of that goes out to use to buy land they could say 80 buys land or 50 they can decide that the second thing they do which is really interesting this is what’s really clever about nft stuff is a lot of times on the secondary sales the original owner gets a cut you know that yeah i didn’t know how much though so it varies so you can have a thing where if i create nfts and it’s ever resold i get five percent of all sales forever so there’s just some there’s some really interesting things and then you can have people contribute more uh there’s just a lot of variations and look in the end of the day people have had partnerships so this is not brand new i think the the medium of exchange through crypto and all this stuff is creating new new opportunities you you and neville and a couple other friends went and hung out with peter thiel a few weeks ago and you could decide what you want to publicize or not but one thing that i think i can say is um i think he said this to neville or something where he was like you know businesses are are neat but they die and he said something like a city any city that’s ever been a somewhat major city it’s never died before and apparently his obsession right now is on cities uh and i actually invested in this one company where they’re doing uh gene editing you know what gene editing is not familiar it’s like basically the the kind of explain like i’m five version is if you get a disease and your skin like goes away or something happens to your skin and it gets messed up gene editing you can tinker with someone’s genes and it will grow they’ll grow back new skin whereas before they probably wouldn’t have the issue with gene editing is that it’s highly regulated by the fda and so like the future of gene editing could be like if you’re an amputee you can grow back a new leg or or you could grow a new liver or kidney or whatever you know [ ] like that and peter thiel has this city in like bolivia somewhere in central or south america and he basically is like the founder of this city and this company that i invested in is based out of that city because there is no fda in that city which is like potentially horrible but it’s kind of interesting he said that he’s in he’s incredibly invested and interested in new cities and uh i think so i think that’s cool when i hear about all these new startup people like mark laurie the founder of jet he has the new cities i think these new cities are actually incredibly fascinating yeah i uh i’m i’m more interested in kind of like shared home ownership i think there’s something just kind of clever like how do i own a building but there’s a lot of people that own it a lot of people can use it i think there’s just like too many people that have too much house for just one individual so i like the the concept of that what do you think about meeting peter thiel you know what was it there’s a lot of interesting things about him um i think one i tweeted about this at no kagan was that his he just uses like an iphone 7 right like the guy’s like what are we on now what i’ve got the new one what is that yeah 13 pro.5 whatever and he’s on a seven yeah and he had like you know crappy ass new balances he looked like he was wearing like mervyn socks and like you know like wrangler jeans i gotta give a [ ] about it and you know was he really do you think he was wearing regular jeans wrangler just like nor like kate mart jeans just like normal and you know but he also had three security guards and you know cameras and they checked the building all that kind of stuff i think i admired that he is a thinker and it made me appreciate you know i met him when i worked at facebook and i still remember this story he like bought into our poker game and then he had to go meet with zuck and then he lost and then he’s like hey can i get my money back and then boz who’s now like the cto was like [ ] no yeah peter did and i was like can’t believe that also we would say no the guy who’s the only you know the main investor at the time i think the other thing that i appreciate about how much how much was the buy-in like 10 bucks and he asked for it back yes there’s money but i was like what are you doing dude like i i was kind of surprised he wanted it back but then i like that boss like [ ] you he said that exactly like that he said [ ] you no no no he just was like no and then the funny thing about that i i like busted out uh i don’t know i mean like 20 minutes later and i go outside and his like half a million dollar mclaren is sitting outside i was like all right all right what did you tell him that do you remind him of that story when you’re with him recently i don’t think he remembers me um but yeah i think the second thing about him is that he’s a very i was just looking at my notes of him i don’t mind sharon i think just like he he’s just a deep thinker it just felt like this guy’s like really like him and this is another you know him and like keith boy and all these guys they’re a lot of history readers they’re like deep ass like reading boring [ ] books about 1900 history that i just won’t i’m not won’t i just don’t do and i think that gives that’s where a lot of their advantage comes from so ben who’s on this podcast has this podcast that’s on history and he just talks about historical figures and he does a biography on them it’s incredibly fascinating and right before you came on we did a whole podcast on history and how um you could just learn you could learn you basically could just not make the mistakes that other people have made just from reading about them so it’s kind of interesting uh keith or boy i don’t know keith or boy other than twitter dude he comes off like such a jerk on twitter i don’t know if i want to hang out with him but i definitely would want to meet uh peter thiel dude he’s a legend i love me keith boy him david sachs oh i don’t listen to all in show i don’t even know is he is he cool keith is sharp keith doesn’t really respond to me he he doesn’t respond to me as much anymore because i’ve been trying to get him on my show uh on the no kagan show and um but he’s just [ ] bright man like the guy’s very bright i think he’s very astute i also like people that have like i think lately i’m more considerate and i like when he’s at a level of wealth in the hundreds of millions that it’s just like [ ] and he’s like yo that guy’s a dumb ass san francisco’s [ ] i think this is crying i have a lot of admiration for anyone who hasn’t i like that too i just think that you could do it i don’t think that you need to be polite all the time i’m an [ ] too i just think that like when you are a boss and you’re a winner and you maybe pick on the weak ones publicly in a in a rude and abrupt way it makes you look weak and soft and like a bully and i think that i that’s how i don’t like how it comes off online but whenever i have seen interviews with him he seems incredibly kind not kind but polite i don’t know i mean i think i guess i also agree with his opinions so i don’t mind his approach like he’s like liz warbin sucks miami’s the best here’s like businesses that i’m um you know really bullish on you like miami i’m more neutral to it i haven’t spent enough time it seems appealing like there’s i really wanted to go to art basel like that’s on a bucket list man to see all the cool art and nft and just like the vibe uh i’m not i think every city’s got every everyone has a calling when they get into a city miami’s never called me to live there when i visit but it’s enjoyable would you stay i do intend to stay in austin for a while yeah i think it’s also you if you ever feel like stuck in life like i was feeling a little flat and like frustrated with a lot of work [ ] going on and you know i don’t know i wanted pity party and i think to take you know to take a power party and you got to get the [ ] out so like i was in albuquerque last week i’m going to go to cabo this weekend gonna go to the bay or in la in a few weeks i think you can get the [ ] out sometimes and just change geography so tell me about peter thiel what do your notes say i would okay here’s a shocker this is shocked me sam if you had five he’s probably worth like 10 billion i was like peter how much are you spending on longevity and he’s like almost nothing what that’s crazy i would like that’s spent everything on that i was like dude drop a bill give me a billion i’ll solve it so he doesn’t spend anything on longevity he spends very little he’s like i do oh i don’t know how to say some of this stuff he does some stuff like male things to help but like very like i thought he would be like yeah i have scientists on staff and i have an institute and i’m like you know the other thing is i was like oh do you have a crazy diet and he’s he’s like none of that really is going to move the needle dramatically he’s like i i eat dark choc i eat chocolate cake at night like he was telling us how his assistant hides food from him so he doesn’t eat it when he travels like you think the guy who’s like this genius which he is is hyper disciplined he’s like no i’m not but he also knows he’s not so he accommodates so i i think i was just shocked that he’s not doing more longevity you know we talked about um on the podcast we talked about this guy named brian johnson who started braintree and he’s like a billionaire guy now and he’s got a whole website where you can look at where he’s spending millions of dollars a year on his on longevity and you can go to his website and look at all the stuff that he’s doing and it’s incredibly fascinating and when i saw that i’m like this is exactly what you should do if you’re if you’re that wealthy and i’m amazed that peter thiel doesn’t do that yeah that was shocking i was shocked that he had low willpower he talked you know because you kind of you watch all these [ ] videos and you listen to podcasts like i wake up at five and i have you know celery and i take a cold shower he’s like nah i like eating chocolate cake and he’s you know and he was drinking wine and like he eat carbs and i was like he’s a [ ] human which made me have a lot of appreciation for him and i i mean and i felt like he also was very generous way more than i thought he stayed and talked to us the whole time like four hours without checking his phone without tweeting any [ ] and was very present which i really appreciated i read this book with him in ryan holiday and ryan holiday said something really i thought cool about him where he said basically if you ask him a question he’ll say well you know some people believe this other people think that it’s this this and this like he like looks at uh he looks at all sides and he doesn’t actually always tell his opinion it’s an interesting thought um i think one of the things he had a lot of phrases do you want to hear from these like he just had these phrases i’m like man these are great phrases look ahead function i thought that was good what’s that mean uh basically like how are you looking when you’re thinking about a decision how are you looking ahead to what the outcome could be i thought that was really clever like how much are you thinking further ahead on things uh zombification he’s like everyone is a dumbass there’s no everyone has like the same thoughts he’s like i’m looking for anyone who has unique thoughts incremental versus monumental shifts that’s a baller one that’s a really good one um companies are mortal cities are immortal yeah i was i was thinking about that and we i was talking to neville he goes yeah peter told me about this and he uh and i was like yeah i think that’s true and i was trying to think of like a city in america that has like just gone away and one that was at least a mediocre city and there’s nothing hmm well i think the thing that i never thought of that he had i was like whoa that’s so interesting like we think of cities is like um he was trying to talk about how cities you’re kind of like a shareholder of a country and i never thought about that he’s like you can you know remote work is the worst thing that can happen to cities did he have an opinion about that yeah he thinks places like california francisco are people can vote now with their feet and so the ability to work remote now hurts them and and i agree with that but doesn’t he live in l.a yeah yeah that’s kind of weird right i i admire that i think i get annoyed with people like i’m in puerto rico to save ford nichols and i’m like well yeah but you have to puerto is actually not horrible but you have to live there yeah there’s no [ ] power for two weeks if there’s a hurricane and look there’s dude you’re on the beach there’s i love mexican food it’s got margaritas it’s got a good life but the other side of that is like is that how much is it worth to live a sub-optimal life and i admire that he’s like [ ] it i’m in l.a i’m going to live baller um even whatever tax rate this is i read that in that same book what’s that ryan holiday book it’s awesome do you want to tell you or not tell you no conspiracy or conspiracy theories or something yeah that’s it that was just conspiracy theory is that it conspiracy um he’s in that book he said that wherever peter thiel goes 24 hours a day he’s got a black mercedes waiting for him oh that that’s what was outside the car that was outside the restaurant was it a black mercedes yeah yeah he had a disco ball inside it was crazy and he and i i think i’m almost positive he says it’s running at all times he tells me they have to have it running that’s really interesting in the book that’s what he said uh he goes he has a mercedes form all the time and uh apparently he’s got like some residence or something in new zealand where uh i think there’s also a jet waiting for him uh like in a close vicinity wherever he’s going and he goes just in case if anything bad happens he could bolt to new zealand i think the question that i’m curious that you got me thinking about for myself or for you or for the audience is that if we had a billion dollars how would we live differently what do you think you do you still want to do stuff right like you still want to work like work is fun people are like oh it’s like dude sit around all day see how that goes [ ] boring it’s [ ] lame um not too much i think i would just do the things i’m doing at a higher level now i would like not worry about buying houses i’m not sure dude i don’t know the absolute stuff is hard i don’t think i would pay right away to get out of it but i’d try to figure some something else it’s it’s tough i got another like year or two in it for this this role uh then probably buy houses and i’m just trying to figure out how to adjust the work to only do the area i want i would accumulate large amounts of land and i would create nice residents on all of them so me and my friends can just go like it’s so rare that we can go someplace and do whatever we want and that’s exciting for me like that’s what we we should do do we have any friends that have lots of land that we can go and shoot guns and drive motorcycles and [ ] and just be like 12 year olds that’s what i’m talking about i thought we were gonna say i was really hoping sam our answers would be like you know i would take that billion dollars and give it out to the world well i’m not giving it to the world but i would like any anything like like i felt bad remember that tony shay uh tony the guy from zappos you know that’s sad it was sad and but when i saw that i’m like man i wish it didn’t go that way but at the same time like he would travel with an entourage and i’m like that is sick as you know the substance abuse things was bad but wherever i went i would just say crew who who’s who’s coming with and you and i have a friend uh this guy who started rent jungle or not rent juggle jungle scout greg mercer and he bought these fancy seats to f1 and i don’t know how much it cost but i bet you this box cost fifty to a hundred thousand dollars and he was like um hey do you want do you wanna come and i just had cheapo tickets and he’s like we took care of everything and i was like what i was like well how much is it i’ll pay you he goes no no it’s cool man it’s fun i like sharon and he brought me and it was awesome and he’s told me stories about how he takes people to telly ride just if he’s doing cool [ ] he’s like hey anyone who wants to come come with me and it sounds awesome that’s what i want to do i did i think i’ve told you this i did my will like a year ago and it was kind of like it was surreal i was like i guess i’m gonna maybe die one day but then it really inspired me to to live while i’m here and spend the money now while i’m here so even with my brother i’m like do you want to kill me and get the money now or can i just give you some of it now and it’s just it’s exciting to start thinking about how to live like you have the will and like live like you’re dead and enjoy the money with friends like you’re talking about that’s a great way to approach it do you are you gonna have kids anytime soon i mean it feels weird making a will where you gotta like give [ ] to your mom and your brother yeah my brother has a kid which i was like that guy’s gonna get all this money like that’s crazy it’s not even yours it’s not even minor it’s not his like it’s not your kid i mean it just feels like you’re not like you love him but you’re not it’s not your your blood or your you know it is part some blood i think genetics some uh yeah i think i’ll have kids i mean i maybe i’ll go to sperm bank and just donate a ton and then each of those kids gets like a mill maybe they get each one of them gets a crypto punk yeah [ ] we’re going to wrap up here in a minute but this has been a a meandering episode i actually think it’s going to go over kind of well i i i think people are gonna dig it i you i got nothing to say to that i thought it’s interesting i mean talked about a variety of subjects and then what what do people want out of the show why do you think people listen to something to like entertain like empty calories frank business advice so there’s a few things one i will say i’m shocked anyone listens but at this point we’re at we’re at we’re we’re like over a million downloads a month now um which is crazy so some episodes like 50 60 70 000 downloads which is pretty crazy two shockingly people find us funny like that’s what the comments say which amazed me and three i would say sean’s really good i think sean’s good i think a lot of people listen for him you’re good too man you’re just a good follow-on i mean i think what it is is you’re the only ones left podcasting like everyone gave up like a few years ago and you’re like no one told you so you kept going it’s been so hard it is hard man but i think that’s you know you forget my mom always says this like you forget how hard the last lap is and i think sometimes when you just kind of push through and you’re like oh i guess that wasn’t so hard and the further away you get from it well is youtube easier you think it’s hard you could you could what define easy right is the [ ] answer um yeah it’s challenging and it’s in a different way i think the intimacy of an audience is really high with podcasts like they’re really spending a lot of time with you youtube it’s harder to be successful on it i think it’s harder i don’t know harder but there is a broader audience available for you to reach so that’s why i spend all my time so i stopped podcasting more or less i still have my show that noah kaden presents but you know of my content creation audience building 95 percent of that’s in youtube world it’s harder for people to do it like that you can’t just go back it’s so hard it’s so i know you put out a video well all of it takes forever it’s just like i think you know the [ ] answers find the thing that you could work forever on my video that i i made my first youtube video i’m gonna start doing one a week it got 3000 views baby oh which one the drinking one no the um real estate one about my project how many 4.3 000 views 2.4 000 that’s good man look dude i didn’t even remove the descript logo at the bottom because it cost 25 and i was like i don’t know if i’m gonna even do this next next month did you edit yourself yeah good for you there’s there’s no editing they’re just like i spliced clips together how was it for you how was this experience doing it it sucks i hated it but um uh it’s it’s cool to see the result like i understand why you know who the best at here’s the best youtuber i think out right now he’s he’s out of this world nick bear oh dude love nick bear nick bear’s the best youtuber i’ve been seeing lately the other day he put out basically a documentary and he’s doing like one or two a week um he did a documentary on the leadville 100 this 100-mile race he did nick bear’s the most impressive youtuber i’ve seen lately do you agree with have you had him on your show yeah but it was a little bit more it was before he was really famous nick is just dope man he’s just like a good dude and like you when you find out he like started his business at 4 00 a.m when he was in on and on base in korea he’s like damn that like i’m not surprised when people are successful i’m like oh yeah you put in the work and you stuck with it for a long period of time that’s it did you meet him in person yeah it’s awesome is he just yoked yeah yeah i’m gonna i think i’m gonna work out with them next month or in january oh you should stop with them yeah i think part of it is like you know i’ve said this before it’s like most of my net worth is from who i know and so nick i gotta meet him and help out help his stuff helps me out um but there’s certain people that you see like nick that you’re just like yeah man i hope you get there and he’s getting there obviously but there’s just people you want to see succeed i think people don’t want to see me and you succeed sam but they they just can’t stop us some do some are like noah why do you say that i want to see you succeed but i think it’s just like no you you and i are very punchable that’s why we do boxing we let other people have a chance to punch us let me ask you a last question what what what can i learn from nick from you knowing him oh i would definitely have him back on the show when he was on the show he was super almost naive like it felt like like not but that not a bad way where he was like learning as we were talking to him like he acted like he was unaware of certain things and i’m like dude i know you know about this but you’re just like a sponge and you just are trying to get me to tell you everything so you know he was just interesting he just felt like a student yeah that’s i mean it could be his i don’t know if he’s trying to be strategic about that i think that’s i don’t know i i guess with nick i’m impressed his evolvement from like someone who was a marine or i think he was a ranger to a business operator also he’s kind of in a to some extent commoditized space right like the sugar powder yeah the powder that get everyone gets from the same place but you put a different sticker on it i think i’ve been impressed specifically with nick how he evolved from like uh you know i’ll be straight like a meathead jock lifter to like one a content creator at like an elite level from the storytelling and i think it’s just his physical fitness is really well-rounded so well-rounded man who on earth can weigh 195 pound and you know squat 500 pounds and run a three-hour marathon it’s so interesting there’s a lot of there’s a lot of good youtubers out there man it’s just unbelievable how much great content is being created who do you like we’ll wrap up with that who do you like uh let’s look at my homepage so obviously noah kagan colin and samir are studs i i love colin smear oh dude you know who’s the best andrew callahan channel five he was the all gas no brakes wait what oh he is dude watch the check bake so channel five with andrew callahan uh watch the um watch the pickup artist boot camp or check oh yeah this guy he used to be part of like a business that he bailed on he was i think for vice or something like that all gas no breaks yeah yeah he’s sick colin and samir are sick on on just specifically on creators um i like watching dude my weird freaky fetish lately is just i love watching like outdoor survival same which ones uh who’s the guy in ohio dave canterbury so i watched dave canterbury actually just writing all these down dave cannon barry yeah dave canterbury architectural digest is gangster i love seeing like celebrity homes do you like primitive technologies uh i think i’ve seen them i think i’m pretty aggressive on unsubscribing for some reason i unsubscribe from them i see primitive dude i’m looking at dave cantonbury he looks amazing this is exactly how i want my guys to look have you watched the show alone oh oh on hulu yes have you met like with the guy that looks like uh like he like he’s wearing like bear skin around he looks like a native american the white dude but he’s like i actually don’t know where he is and there’s another caves of missouri uh there’s a bunch of weird-ass people in there but dude it’s epic so i i definitely would recommend alone so i like all the survival stuff from that i watch a lot dude this is the weirdest one i watch a lot of squash videos i probably watch like like it’s on right now watch this while you’re talking to me sam i have it on in the background like hydraulic hydraulic press no squash like the game like the british gabe why are you watching that i just leave it on it’s just like white noise i put on the background so i watch a lot of that on youtube that’s kind of a lot of that’s the main things like outdoor survival architecture of course neville and uh yeah that’s about it all right well ben what do we think i’ll tell you some i’ll tell you another good book i read man i’ll tell a weird one that people have dude i’ve been reading all crime books so like like the real murder mystery well yeah i like that but like i just like one on 9 11 another one favorite book this year favorite book this year okay you’re gonna like this one because you do this it’s called travels with charlie in search of america john steinbeck wrote it in 1930. and john cybeck you know famous author and he was like you know i live in cape cod and i’m rich now i’m in my 60s i’ve been reading writing about middle america for the past 50 years and i’m so out of touch right now and he just drives his uh pickup truck around america and just talks to people and writes about it and it’s amazing do you know who lieutenant dan is in um forrest gump yeah yeah he’s the narrator of the audiobook that’s a good one and then empire the summer moon you’d like that one it’s about oh i heard that one what’s the comanche indians um and they’re they’re just nutty like the texans were evil and the indians were evil to each other uh the indians and the uh uh texans were just like it’s about how they just destroyed each other and then finally the operator which is basically the guy who killed bin laden and he like tells the story of finding bin laden and that was is that good some of these military books were kind of weak not man that one was pretty spectacular yeah i mean he talks about like finding he he goes in depth about hunting down bin laden and and shooting him in the head like it’s intense all right a few questions here one do you get books from the library at all no but either you or neville have been bragging about how amazing it is dude i’m a huge library guy there’s a chrome extension called library uh it’s called library extension that’ll show you if you can get digital or audio books for free and it shows you when you go to amazon so you just put in austin library dude i use all the time how do they make money i just donated i don’t know how they actually make money okay uh but thank you for those books dude yeah library extension you just add the austin library uh one book i read recently dude that is so good i think you really enjoy it it’s called free country it’s two guys in europe who backpack who try to go from the bottom of uk to the top of uk biking and they just start in their underwear that’s all they start with is it amazing wow what yeah so they start at the bottom of the uk in their underwear that’s it and they have to get to the top of uk on bike in three years it’s really good it got like crazy good reviews audio book or download or how do you look for normal i think the audio book is good dude all right i think i got it at the library for free oh and it’s on kindle unlimited it’s free on kindle dude hell yeah all right i’m i’m gonna do that any other ones uh that one was awesome i really enjoyed i didn’t know if you wanted more yeah dude we’re reading the same travel stuff so i’ll give you another one then little golden america in the 1930s two russian journalists from the ussr were welcomed into america and they just traveled for uh four months all over america and they’re like you know it’s pretty crazy in america and they just like you just explain from their perspective what america is about they’re like in america everyone’s so optimistic for example we met these guys it’s cool and it’s no one knows about it in america but it’s one of the most popular books in russia in russia you book read you uh what else oh dude there’s some other good ones do you read about the dude you know ryan holliday’s book list is really good uh his email list his email list he just recommends books i don’t know how he could he consumes so much i don’t know dude he’s like audiobooks it’s like 10 a month there’s no way he he does an audio book no i think he reads he’s probably like it has to be paper and if it’s not this like certain density of organic paper i won’t read it he once said if you’re not taking notes then you’re not reading effectively i think that’s true yeah but that’s like i mean i’m not gonna take notes on like killing up bin laden i don’t think but most of the books on kindle are physical i either highlight and then i’ll reread them yeah but dude if i’m just listening to like a book like about these guys walking around their underwear trying to like get from place to place i’m not gonna like you know or like fight club i’m not gonna like write notes any other ones dude trevor noah’s book i was like i don’t care about that guy everyone talks about that book it’s it’s just a really well written book well it’s like david goggins book i’m like all right david you’re gonna yell at me you’re really hardcore i get it you could do push-ups or pull-ups that’s great his book if you haven’t read david’s like everyone talked about it it’s honestly a phenom one it’s very well written and two it’s just a great story it’s just the audiobook is cool too yeah him the wright brothers i got that dude oh i read that one recently amazing that was awesome i drove to dayton ohio after i read it because it was so good oh that’s good did you read million little pieces no what’s that one i actually think you’ll like that one it’s about drug addiction no but it’s a true story that’s the crazy part okay i really enjoyed that these are just ones from this year all right i’m gonna wait i think this guy james frey million little pieces didn’t he isn’t he famous for a bunch of stuff yeah he actually wrote a few other books and then there’s some like drama about him oh uh they say that he lied about his book my my uh yeah the apparently he uh it’s made up there’s debate about that so it seems like for the most part a lot of it is not made up and there’s just a few pieces that are yeah i remember this because he went on oprah years and years ago and there was this big controversy well so she talks [ ] on him and then she actually apologized i believe because i got you after you read the book you’re like is this real or not real i can’t believe it that’s how crazy it is yeah all right i’m going to read it this is good this is the best part i’m going to read all these things i mean i i could i try to walk a lot so i listen to all these audio books so i’m gonna i’m gonna uh download this one a million little pieces i’m gonna get the uh the guys doing their underwear thing and i already installed the library extension bro game over come on this little gold in america do they have an audio book or just paperback uh you could do a paperback or you can um there’s free pdfs online did you see the description of it it’s interesting there’s like no reviews of it but in the first page they go we translated this into russia and yet no one or into english and yet no one in america knows about this however in russia everyone reads this book in schools like this is like the kids summer reading for schools it’s like very very very popular do you see it yeah how did you hear about this goodreads recommended it to me when i was reading the in search of america uh the john steinbeck book i loved that that was one of the best like i it was i got addicted to that it randomly popped up on things recommended and it had five out of five reviews five out of five stars on on goodreads and it had like three thousand reviews but when i googled it i couldn’t find a thing about it so i was like this is kind of intriguing did you look at it on goodreads uh i do not like anything it’s so funny goodreads i saw someone talk about this maybe it’s you it’s like the site that hasn’t been updated from like 1960 but it’s still dope it’s still like a there’s like there’s nothing better yet it’s badass uh the guy who started it spoke at hazelcon his name’s otis chandler and his grandpa started the la times and otis sold to amazon for like a billion dollars i think either i think it was a billion or a hundred million but he sold it to him like 10 years ago or something like that so we just knocked it out the park do you ever you ever blown away by like how much awesome books are out there that we don’t even know of like this book existed i’ve never [ ] heard of it and it’s gotten reviews i’m like i did not know that yeah and i’ve always thought i want to read all this but then you know i started thinking one time i i listened to like thinking real rich on audiobook and i loved the narrator and i was like i don’t remember those narrators or the the audio guy i want to remember his voice because he’s so good and i looked at what else he had done and he’s read like a thousand self-help books and i’m like wait a minute you’ve read all these and you’re still [ ] making 50 bucks an hour reading these damn books what the hell man this is not effective and so after that i i almost quit reading business book or self development books entirely yeah it’s just boring i’d rather read like biographies or like i’m reading this book this running book right now out of thin air the best right i just started it’s really interesting i’ve been liking i guess outdoor activity books so well out of thin air that’s not that’s a different one wait out of thin air oh you’re thinking of um the one about the guy in alaska who what’s out of thin air oh it’s about kenya yeah this guy like goes and runs with kenyans i think into thin air the john krakauer one which is also awesome but okay someone gifted me this out of thin air book and i wasn’t sure if it was that good is it amazing so far pretty interesting i mean the i’d go read free country that one is like i didn’t want to read it because i didn’t want it to be over all right i’ll read it all right i gotta rock this was good you