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Kind: captions Language: en what was reported I think was 30 to Connor and 100 to Floyd was that what was reported I think it was hot for certainly higher for Conor that I know and and you know for Floyd I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher just depending on what he did again wow do you really think that 100 million was true well I mean I I Connor was on you know I’d say just under a hundred right when it’s all said and done so that’s his part so again he has a part we had a partner in the UFC so and I will get into the specifics but yeah so for Floyd’s side it’s very reasonable to think that he could have pulled in a hundred uh assuming that he he didn’t take it all [Music] Audi I I I see all these interviews with you I see you on the UFC like behind the scenes stuff and you’re always wearing slick suits and you’re dressed nice right now but I just saw that you’re drinking out of a Stanley mug just to remind everyone at home that no matter how fancy someone is we all have a little basicness inside of us you know I always say like you know it’s business much like sports you have to you know you wear your uniform to play the game right okay but we’re all human at the end of the day we all have our casual clothes or you know our at home I’ve only seen one interview you and I’ve watched a bunch of interviews there’s only one interview that you weren’t wearing a suit you’re wearing like Lululemon and a hat the only time I’m gonna have to switch it up now man that’s it you know I have to switch it up but it’s a pleasure to meet you guys man you should Zig and zag the other way because I think a lot of people in the like agents talent management they all are all like very slick looking you should go the other way right like um you should go athleisure as your main thing because you were an athlete so I feel like you can pull that off and a lot of guys in that space will all look like suits to you know in comparison I’m gonna have to man I’m gonna have to to make people remember that I was actually one of them before I became a suit exactly well there there was some bum out there in San Francisco who was the first person to wear just like you know pajama bottoms and a t-shirt instead of a suit you you just that’s that that’s your burden now I guess I was from Cali too so I gotta start just rocking flip-flops you know what I mean just just all good with the flip-flops in the shorts in Silicon Valley uh it’s like the opposite like I remember when I first moved here I went to like this nice kind of like Club Speakeasy type thing and everybody’s waiting in line and a guy walks up with a hoodie and you know it just looks completely disheveled and the bouncers know like all right this guy’s either homeless or a billionaire we don’t know which one we gotta just err on the side of maybe this is like the next Mark Zuckerberg let him in let them in first and go that way I realized oh the status game is different here that’s funny I heard a lot about that yeah certainly uh Counter Culture if you go to business the noble the New York the New York hustle is all suit and tie whereas the San Francisco hustle is definitely flip-flops and and holes in your T-shirt you know so your introduction here is it’s it’s it’s there’s you’ve got a bunch of stuff so so you’ve started Paradigm which is uh and you just call it an agency a sports agency sports management company I’d say it’s a Sports Management entertainment platform it’s what it is platform all right with uh the most famous guy being Conor McGregor but I also think you have Izzy do you have one more champion on there I thought you had three so Izzy’s a former client of ours but definitely was an amazing client while he was with us uh Michael Bisping uh Stephen Thompson Michael Ben and Paige Rico verhuven uh past clients obviously like Chris Lytle who’s actually one of my first clients that’s how I got into the sport um but yeah very fortunate to work with some of the the greatest fighters of all time though yeah so just a bunch of Ballers but then you also co-founded proper 12 which we’re gonna ask you all about it but according to the headlines it was like a 600 million dollar exit so you’ve had some maybe even more success there than the main thing what’s cool is uh so you run a a talent kind of like let’s say what part of your business how talent management talent agency and that’s cool there’s a bunch of our audience that also owns agencies which I think is great but what I liked about you is that you have also kind of the Venture side so you’re like creating Brands and business ventures off the talent and we’ve talked about these kind of Creator brands in the past we had uh you know Mr Beast on here and he’s got all these kind of like feastables he’s got other uh you know corporate Brands underneath it we had a Instagram star Danny Austin come on and she’s got Divi like a hair care brand that’s doing you know way more money than she can get kind of just in in versus like influencer brand deals and so what I like is that you’ve got and Rob Dyrdek yeah Rob Dyrdek you’ve got both and that’s been a theme that we’ve kind of been been playing with so I think we’ll we’ll try to hop around a little bit but I definitely bless you bless you I mean I’ll be remiss if I didn’t give you those two sorry oh wow what a gentleman look at that hello John May edit it out and and then yeah that’s that’s a character shower right there I’m like I’m talking if Sam’s dying over there I’m gonna finish my point I don’t care oh yeah he’s good he’ll come back yeah exactly no no I appreciate the recognition look I mean we we certainly I feel were one of the early um you know platforms slash agencies if you will that really saw not only um you know an opportunity but more so wanted to do more for our clients right we wanted to disrupt our respective industry but also think far beyond that and not just think transactional and for me in mixed martial arts it was an underserved market and we wanted to not only advocate for our clients but advocate for the school for it really push fighter fighter uh not only earnings uh higher and higher which still have a long way to go but they’ve come a long way from when we first started and back in 2009 in in the sport and we were very fortunate because we came in right before the first um you know rights deal was was actually paid you know the UFC was paying to be on Spike prior to the fox deal and and as you know most people know that’s the main economic driver of any professional sports organization whether it’s the you know NFL the NBA and now obviously from from a mixed martial arts perspective the UFC they were paying Spike to put themselves on TV that’s a that’s publicly no they were actually you know paying for that air time so the original Ultimate Fighter and then all all that was broadcast on Spike back in the day um yeah they were not only funding their own production but they’re paying for that air time and and fox was that really first paid deal that the UFC uh garnered you know and which was a Monumental uh milestone for the sport and and for the promotion and sport of mixed martial arts you know is is it wouldn’t be here without the UFC which is the Catalyst but where the sport is today now you have other promotions that are competing and promotion is very synonymous with leagues right so when you talk about leagues um you know it’s there’s certain terminologies within the sports world that are very similar although there’s a lot of differences as well right in terms of you know athletes in NFL MBA being employees and then Fighters being independent contractors so for us we saw an opportunity of it not only being the fastest growing sport in an underserved market for the athletes but then also really Thinking Beyond just management how can we create you know more value for the clients and you know it takes a special client and a special personality like Conor McGregor so I was very fortunate to sign him 10 years ago and you know and and we had a vision and he was very very bullish about that Vision as well let’s rewind let’s rewind to that so you uh your story is kind of I’ll give the first part very fast so you you play football at UCLA you end up getting injured you move into uh management side of things you got you got some kind of football players as your first clients and then you Branch into MMA and you discover Conor McGregor can you tell the story how did you how did you discover Connor what was what was his situation like at that time and uh well what was those kind of the first meeting it takes us back to those days yeah sure so um I think taking it back to the first days the early days is really working with guys like Chris Lytle right getting into the business um we’re working with the guy that I got to work with him for one fight and he retired so then it was being able to sign Michael Bisping which was a massive opportunity for me and someone that I’m so proud of not only as a client but as a friend as well who went on to be the first British uh Champion first champ UFC champion from uh from the UK and you know he was a pioneer of mixed martial arts for all the up-and-coming athletes within Europe you know Ireland included so um I was very fortunate enough to start to work with Michael and and other clients as well earlier in my in my uh career in in the UFC and mixed martial arts in particular um and so when I signed Conor was when he first came on to to the to the UFC scene right he was fighting in the region no promotion in Europe cage Warriors which is still around and he’s still uh you know they what’s called a mid major if you will and these are these are to some extent they’re professional promotions but they’re feeder programs and the larger promotions if you will and um he had just signed to the UFC and we were introduced uh interestingly in us like through Facebook and you know at the time it was he was you know looking at signing with one of the agencies in the sport and I got an opportunity to uh pitch him and and Coach his coach John Kavanaugh as to why I felt that we would be the best fit for him and so you gotta you know put you know put your best foot forward and and give it a shot and and hopefully you win that business and I was fortunate enough that um you know we got first opportunity actually to work with him heading into his you know his first fight we were saying okay well let’s pause now let’s talk after this first fight so he beats Marcus brimage was that the uh baby yeah that’s the famous line that fight and after that his second flight was his U.S debut actually against Max Holloway and we started to work with with one another um heading into that fight and so um the rest is history but one of the things you know we recognize is not only his athletic ability but then he had special special not only talent in inside the Octagon but you could tell he was very special and charismatic he had that it factor that you know is is you know I think it’s it’s once in a it’s once in a generation type of of an athlete as well not only from a physical perspective but a qualitative perspective and so you know the sky was going to be the the limit in terms of what we could do together and was that I mean I’ve seen all the there’s these older interviews where Connor still has acne he has no tattoos and he says like you know mark my words you will see me in the UFC you will see me as a champion one day and then coming up leading up to that Marcus fight and then I think it was Dennis silver in Boston if I remember correctly like in the early days you still see that he has some type of star power on camera but behind the scenes uh even at a young age in his early 20s did you notice that uh the confidence and the star power was there just in your normal hanging out sessions yeah you could definitely see his Charisma behind the scenes and uh you know he was like I said he was very witty uh very very confident but also very engaging you know I think one of the things I always Chelsea Bros you know majority of people in the world uh know who Conor McGregor is and I would argue that most of them have never seen him fight they’ve actually seen more of his interviews and and and um and him talking because you know when he talks you can’t take your eyes off it awesome right he’s just so fun and whether you love him or hate him you’re watching him you know and that’s that’s I think what makes him special yeah you find a Conor is kind of like we’ve had guys on this podcast that are like yeah I discovered Uber I was like the fifth investor in Uber or you know like they’re early investors in Facebook or something like that right it’s like a it’s like an angel investment that goes on to become this is what we call in Silicon Valley like a unicorn right that’s like this billion dollar brand that you discover at that early age were were other people pitching in for business at that time because I remember that first brimage fight there was like a hype around him like even his entrance people were like really excited about him and I didn’t know who he was at the time so I don’t even know how people were so excited about the guy at that time so I imagine that you know there were other agents trying to win that business at that time um do you have any good fun anecdotes or stories of like your hustle at that time to get him or was it like no people it was kind of like a like an ignored asset people didn’t realize that this was going to be that he was going to be a big deal and it really was it didn’t look like it was like this hotly contested thing no I definitely think that people were were um you know hot on him but I think everybody was pitching him on the same idea it was more transactional and I think what were um I stood out surely was because I I had a broader Vision I had brought a vision of creating IP you know and creating media and content but also creating uh business ventures right and I really was bullish in on that idea uh and I I remember even when I first launched Paradigm 2009 my business plan was not only to be the best in class from a management perspective but build uh clients media and IP where whereby building more brand equities for them and that will yield not only more ants they wrote up and used from a sponsorship perspective but increased their value from a from their playing contract or prospective athletically and also leads to to business ventures and you know I I was laughed at when I first had that business plan it’s too busy focused on what you could do you know like and and I think that that’s what stood out to him because he had that vision for himself as well and um it was even if you think about what we did back in 2017 with the Floyd fight I mean everybody thought we were crazy you know that that fight was never going to happen and everybody doubted us everybody even some of those ended up doing the deal and partnering with us so ultimately you know we had to believe in ourselves and and more importantly go out and actually execute right because you could have dreams you could have visions you could start something but if you don’t execute successfully it means nothing and now that trend is common those exhibitions now are commonplace you see everybody now taking place in these exhibitions and there’s an appetite from a consumer perspective for these unique matchups where people are are uh matched up from from different sports just uh to compete in Combat Sports um and then we even launched our Venture on the back of that we launched proper 2018 and so you know again at that time I think it was maybe uh George Clooney and and maybe Puff Daddy at the time you know but I don’t think anybody else now it’s like Spirits everybody has some type of a liquor brand that they’re they’re hopping and and then Ventures is commonplace as well so you know to me I’m proud of the fact that we had this vision and we were able to execute more importantly you know because um it’s very hard to do it’s hand-to-hand combat every day entrepreneurship I uh I want to ask you about the proper 12 stuff but before that so like I grew up watching Entourage and so you see like Ari Emmanuel or Ari Gold dealing with like crazy young actors who have monies and money and it’s like you know drugs and sex and then Ballers it’s like uh drugs and sex as well but the difference between uh you know Ballers what’s NFL but then there’s the difference I imagine with UFC fighters where it’s you’re not an actor you’re not a player you’re gonna get out there in your underwear and fight to the death in front of millions of people can you like tell me a little bit about the difference between managing someone like Connor or an Izzy like these like because I imagine them are they crazy what’s that mindset like on a daily basis in that mentality particularly when it comes to business are they have you found that you have to hold them back from being so aggressive sometimes or what’s that like with that type of athlete well first of all I don’t think they’re crazy per se so it’s not you know because of the profession or the sport that they’re in that that they tend to be maybe a little bit um you know crazy so to speak right I mean like when I say crazy I mean like high risk or whatever high risk I think look it means depending on the field you’re in it’s that’s subjective what you think high risk and not most totally most people that come from let’s say if you’re a neurosurgeon you’re going to think the Combat Sports is super high risk right but ultimately I think every human being is different they’re certainly there’s certainly when you’re that competitive you’re gonna be driven you’re gonna be more aggressive and I think I see it even in business at the same at the highest level there’s there’s that chip on the shoulder there’s that edge that that every high level competitor has whether it’s an athlete in different sports or whether it’s a businessman or woman in at the highest level of their respective field so obviously business Acumen varies right so if you’re talking about an Institutional Investor versus a professional athlete diverse but even within the sport you have athletes to have a very high level business Acumen Founders not trained from an Institutional perspective he didn’t go get his MBA he doesn’t have that that academic background if you will right but he’s a very natural businessman what’s a what’s a story as an example I mean his story is proper 12. I mean could it easily taken a check from a sponsorship perspective and been so short-sighted as opposed to putting up our own Capital initially finding the right operating partner finding the right strategic Capital supply chain rapid Market going out and creating our own working without getting the sponsorship checked for x amount of posts or why amount of appearances if you will for an ultimate windfall that changes life and is generational well so that in itself is a great example did you guys have like Jameson we’re like hey we want to sponsor you and you were like dude this Connor let’s do our own thing he’s always had a desire to get into whiskey it’s it’s like he’s Irish it’s part of the DNA right and his his grandfather was a was a whiskey man and we always had the idea when we were approached by a sponsor and and it was like do we go and pursue a sponsorship and take a check or do we just go and own our own business and when you study the category and looked at the tab and you looked at the opportunity you’re like we could this is right for disruption we actually could really come in and do something here right and so that that’s a perfect example of his natural business acting right because it’s hard to do that especially at that level he wasn’t making you know a ton of money yeah up until we got to the Floyd fight which is by the way when we announced our entry into the market we announced our entry into the whiskey Market in our post by press conference yeah I remember he’s cold in the glass we started though the process in 2014 and we were doing a lot of research and development and pivoting from different groups and and ultimately we we found the right you know formula if you will on the right team Etc right um and and the rest is history and that to me takes a lot of a lot of intelligence for an athlete to do that’s not trained how does it have the experience of building a business and you know more moreover the patients right to really bet on himself how much of your guys’s Capital did you put up to get it off the ground and do you remember what your first year sales was what what was well I’ll tell you I can’t disclose all the information just through the strict confidentiality Provisions that exist with our partners and our acquire so I I got to be safe but I can tell you that we put up probably a few hundred thousand of our own Capital initially I could say that right um and that’s you know I mean that most of that went to lawyers if you will just before or you can get started so um but it’s like strategically I think the way we set it up and we have great Partners you know one of our partners is uh and is an operating genius and is a wizard in the spirits business can Austin so I gotta give him a shout out because I yeah he had another company right I mean he did Avion then he yeah probably does he’s got a terramata now he’s in the Lolo he’s a he’s a he’s a Jeep when it comes to experience business you know and when you find people like that are you doing just like a like a 30 30 like you know you guys all split Equity evenly I can’t go into the details of the cap table I wish I could but again the strong confidentiality Provisions in all agreement but it was a it’s a fair deal and I think everybody’s happy in the end but moreover you bring on a black belt that knows what they’re doing because at the end of the day that’s part of operating a business and being successful it’s like you know what you don’t know but essentially no matter what cap table looks like you’re gonna make sure you bring on that the right expertise right from an operational perspective you have to have all the right ingredients to be able to execute successfully so even with something like that let’s say uh just to put this in perspective is it the decision to say well we could just take a straight sponsorship deal get a check make a few Instagram posts and and you know cash that check um versus we’re gonna do the entrepreneurial work and actually build a brand the payoff difference I imagine you could tell me from I think it’s probably a hundred to one would that be approximate so like you know if you just say okay over a few years we would have a a kind of an alcohol sponsor and we’re we’re doing you know kind of these these scheduled posts with them or commercials with them or whatever it may be I think it’s probably something like 50 to 100 x bigger return by doing the work is that I would say it’s a more it’s a multiple of that you think a few hundred dollars how much would a sponsor should have been I mean I mean back in that back at that time you know when we first started the process it would have been like 250 000 something like that that would have been a big one by the time we launched he probably was in the seven figure range yeah in terms of sponsor sponsorship annually right that’s like an annual deal annual deal right yeah okay so a million some some Millions per year in order to promote yeah a whiskey versus hundreds of millions yeah exactly so I would say I would say like it was you know you could run any you know analysis even in an npv and look at like how we won and won big you talked about the Mayweather McGregor thing how that came to like how that nobody thought that that was going to happen and then it it actually happened and it was kind of amazing I remember vividly where I was I remember I was I was in Australia and I had to get up at a certain time I was at a bar at like five in the morning or something like that to watch that fight um but I also remember the build up like there was the kind of back and forth almost flirting on on social media talking talking trash to each other to try to generate interest because I think both guys Floyd and Conor are probably the two smartest businessmen ever that come through Combat Sports and they kind of knew okay this is the right dance partner from for us to like execute something orders of magnitude bigger than what we could do and um and I remember at the time it was seen as almost like the the Elon musk’s Mark Zuckerberg thing today or it’s like wow that’d be crazy if it happened but there’s no way I mean just to get all these people to get them everyone to agree um seemed impossible can you take us back like uh you know like I see all these videos of you like hanging out at Connor’s house or whatever and like you get you know the behind the scenes stuff there had to have been just like a couch conversation where you guys are like okay could we do this how could we do this what what was that early days like before it came to fruition so I to your point I think you know you have two of the smarter s and Savvy businessmen in Combat Sports that really understood you know the modern day fandom of both sports right and early days like he wants to do it and then it would be shot down by UFC by by members of the media by whoever that just doubted that it would ever happen um and I think that the the banter is really what allowed it to happen because once they started going back and forth and you could actually see the level of Engagement and interest from a market perspective and from a consumer perspective it was hard to deny it right it was hard to deny it because it was like this is real it’s viable it’s a it’s a win-win scenario and a win for all parties should be involved why not right the fans want it the fighters want it and and moreover the numbers were speaking for themselves from an analytics perspective so that allowed us to really use what the two fighters were intelligently doing on a very instinctive level right there wasn’t planned there wasn’t scripted it was very instinctive but moreover I think what what my job is is to look at the data and be like right there’s something very viable here there’s something that you know you have to be able to take and continue to to Advocate and push for your client because you could effectively have a successful business opportunity even for the UFC and so that I think it took them a while to come around but eventually they did because they realized there was just such amazing and intense interest around this event that it was real it wasn’t a gimmick it was something that everybody wanted to see and so I think that was uh credit to them too because again it went against all their their their normal business practice they’d never done something like that before and it took you know I think for them to see the substance of it all to then move forward with us and ultimately it was a huge success I mean over four million buys I mean I think there’s probably there’s a something there was some um report I remember receiving it was we had like hundreds of millions of illegal streams I mean like and we still did over 4 million buys you know what I mean like so could you imagine if like it was the most bootlegged fight ever yeah if we would have just been able to even just plug some of those holes and how many more buys we would have had right but I mean it was such a commercial success I mean can I ask you a quick question about those buys yeah so you said you said four million buys I’m not I’m not attacking this strictly about this fight but when I see pay-per-view numbers like what the headlines are I think most of them are complete I think that with a fighter says like for example I remember Floyd has multiple times said he’s earned nine figures so 100 plus million off of one one fight and uh I think I think Connor say I think he was just talking but he’s like oh I’m making this much money off this um uh cowboy Cerrone fight I think those are nonsense and the reason I think they’re nonsense is it’s almost like a rapper bragging about how much money they have it’s like part of the brand you’re not he’s part of your brand and also no one’s incentivized like Dana or Showtime or HBO they’re not incentivized to like tell the public that yeah this dude’s full of we gave him two million dollars he didn’t earn 20 million dollars off this thing oh boy no look let me just look at that public information that’s a loaded because there’s certain elements of that you know could be hypothetically true but for example compensation is not fully reported when you’re talking about UFC particularly MMA like but that’s not fully reported what the persons really are at the highest level that yeah you know what I mean so so it’s actually more it’s even that true because I it’s just what’s reported to the commission and assuming that they don’t have let’s call it another agreement so that’s actually in terms of pay-per-view there’s a speculation so for example May Mac in particular There Was You know I think there was rumors that were starting to trickle in that it did over six million buys or something to that extent you know what I mean but it landed in like the four three four four range and that’s that no that’s actual right I mean ultimately you know that’s those are not fudge numbers and so what you were hearing about what potentially uh Conor made and potentially Floyd made on our side I know it’s more true on the Floyd’s side I don’t know if he divulges who he splits it with or if you know what that what that looks like on his side so I can’t comment on on his right but UFC was our partner so I know what they’re what we’re reporting for kind of was Connor’s what was reported I think was 30 to Connor and 100 to Floyd was that what was reported I don’t think so but maybe I mean in terms of what you’re talking about reported to the the commission of the papers no no journalist ever actually like breaks that down you know what I mean so that’s what I’m saying like these numbers are so high and I hear that and I was walking around for I think it was hot for certainly higher for Conor that I know oh and and you know for Floyd I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher just depending on what he did again wow do you really think that 100 million was true well I mean I I Connor was on you know I’d say said and done so and that’s his part so the UFC so and I won’t get into the didn’t have partnership but that’s right you’re a business guy so you see what Floyd did in the boxing business where he basically became his own promoter runs his own runs his own ship so that he can take the Lion’s Share of of the the revenue or the profits that come from an event where like in the past guys like Mike Tyson and others sort of got screwed because they’re out there fighting generating all this demand then they look at 10 years later they’re like where’s all the money and the promoter is basically enriched themselves in that way and obviously the UFC is totally different it’s like a league it works differently but a guy like Connor is essentially as big of a brand as the USC or UFC uh like you know let’s say it’s debatable they’re in the same like the same like air and if Conor McGregor was to go do a fight on YouTube pay-per-view or whatever he wanted to do he could pull the same numbers as a UFC card without the UFC’s promotion do you think like I guess when you see what Floyd did do you think anybody’s ever going to do that with the UFC or in MMA where they’re going to become their own promoter and have their own shows I think the sport is still young and is still evolving right and while the UFC is to some extent synonymous to Lee is a promotion it’s still structured to some extent you know like prize fighting right there’s still pay-per-view and even though there’s rankings sometimes you’ll see the rankings are not it’s not a true meritocracy because it’s still prize fighting and entertainment to some extent right um and and I think that they have come a long way but they still have a long way to go in terms of how much Fighters should could earn should earn um but at the end of the day too from a boxing perspective I think that’s why boxing has been on the decline it’s still fragmented right and there’s at the end of the day there’s not uh a true promotion that’s that’s stood the test of time I know top ranks been around forever right but who do they really have matching seems to be doing more obviously Premiere is still around and still PBC still competing but you see it kind of fragmented right Canelo fight for matching one one for for a couple fights tonight fighting for PVC for a fight um and I and the difference is though I think in boxing promotions could fight each other and so they have to agree on that right I think in the MMA it’s going to continue to evolve right you now have um the ability can Conor do that of course I think Connor is one of probably the only person could carry his own show it’s very difficult to do right it’s hard to go how many million pay-per-view sellers are there in either sport not a lot you know it’s like it’s it’s not that easy to do so I think that from a from a UFC perspective they’ve always looked at it as like look we’re we’re building something that’s sustainable and they are correct in that regard but I think that Fighters definitely should have a bigger uh piece of the revenues as this thing continues to grow which I think they’ve come a long way but they still have a long way to go right this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of HubSpot HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated well I can see the client’s whole history calls support tickets emails and here’s a test from three days ago I totally missed HubSpot grow better yeah I was going to say you know uh the other group that’s trying to do their own shows is the kind of Jake Paul Logan Paul style thing where they’re doing these kind of like kind of celebrity matches High interest uh fights and getting people to buy pay-per-views for that seems to honestly be working like you know like uh I don’t know what you think about those guys but I personally used to be like oh you know kind of wrote them off as this like kind of like they were like in the jackass crowd of like the YouTube generation of the fine generation and then they said they were going to do this boxing thing uh let’s see who knows how serious it’ll take it but honestly like they’ve done a good job of actually like building up interest and pulling these events off and being like respectable showing up very respectably uh and winning several of these fights um you can’t hate on them man you can’t hate on them they’re they’re putting in the time actually our client Dylan Dennis is fighting Logan Paul coming up that’s right Dylan Dennis is your client yeah oh my God that is so funny are you the genius behind his uh current marketing strategy is that your did you sign off on that no no that’s all I’m doing um I thought you might have been his client there’s there’s a famous video where Nate Diaz and Dylan are getting into it and Nate throws a beer on Dylan and I saw you in the video trying to be like the the father in the whole like you’re like hey Nate Dylan if you guys please walk away is that good it didn’t work out my kids do it listen you know um uh but no I you know you got to give those guys credit I mean look I think they’re they’re putting in time in their crash they’re they’re going in there and and they’re not only you know taking a shot risk it you know I could argue that they’re not really doing it against Real boxers that’s true you know I think they’re being more strategic and but you know again credit has to go to Connor right who created that Trend who started that it was less versus Mayweather and then now I mean even if Floyd goes and fights someone else he doesn’t get the same result without it being another two two a side guys facing each other and well I give all of them credit too I don’t think you’ve seen this Blockbuster event that anybody’s been hoping for so so at the end of the day you know there’s a market though there’s an appetite from a consumer to go look at you know me and you Sean I don’t I think we may look at 100 people that tune in but nonetheless there’s a market there probably streaming on YouTube Sam is gonna have to pay he doesn’t get it under you underestimate how many people want to see if we get my today my friend I think you’re right you’re right so what are the they’ve been begging to get Connor in that I think that that’s the white whale that Jake Paul’s chasing what is the percent chance that a fight between Conor McGregor and Jake Paul ever happens I mean right now College focused on Michael Chandler I’m saying I can tell you floor and exploit the rematches is there Logan Paul wants to fight him Jake Paul not as well of possibilities not zero yeah it’s not zero it’s just not top of mind right now right so you need to take up your sports jacket you need to have a proper 12 you need to like I want the non-polar politician answer that you you jizz are so good that’s funny it’s like I wonder if I just wore freaking Street wearing and you know and and dyed my hair and bleached my hair like I used to when I was a young punk rock kid you know if everybody would really just hear what I’m saying this D is not I’m just telling you the truth like if he’s gonna fight Michael Chandler next right it’s not and we’re not thinking about that you know what I mean but ultimately of course we know he wants to fight of course we know it’s there and of course I think if everybody keeps doing their thing it’s gonna be a market for it right so well let’s talk about the the biggest of these freak Show fights right now is Elon versus Zuck and it was one of those things that like in our world’s like that’s that’s never happened in the kind of business and Tech world and then daily comes out and kind of certifies it he’s like no they want it to happen we’re talking to them we might make it happen which was yeah but he always does yeah well exactly it’s Dana White so you never know uh but you know it was interesting that it got a little bit more heat from that what’s your take on that and again same question I don’t know if data would have gone on a limb if he hadn’t really talked to both right I mean do they well I’m sure he talked to both but I don’t I don’t think that he would have done that you know and and even Zuck training with freaking you know a bunch of different Fighters Izzy and bulk and and Jon Jones and and then uh Elon bringing in GSP and do you believe it’ll happen and if so I believe stuck would be down yeah catch weight whatever it doesn’t matter I agree like I think Zuck is down Zuck is a is is is truly you know training and regardless of this fight or not he’s in there does that mean you think Elon might not be down because that’s our Theory here on this podcast is that Elon wants to talk about it look from the outside looking in and all the information that I have which is probably less than what you have being in the tech world you guys have some freaking secret telegram groups and who told you about that dude for knowing you or like knowing what I think of you you’re probably gonna be managing them no I mean like hey I’ll yeah I’m definitely gonna pursue them you know but so long as we get some rights not just transactions we got to build something together you know but I know but I I I think it’s up to Elon I truly think it’s up to you about you know and I don’t know do you think Dana came out and said if it happened they probably looked at the numbers though for both X and threads they’re like this is great yeah but zuck’s more serious like no don’t talk about it I saw those text exchanges and all that kind of stuff that kind of were leaked and like I said that’s about it he’s not he’s not bullshitting you know Dana has said if it happens it would be the biggest fight ever he thinks it would surpass Floyd Pacquiao it would surpass Floyd Connor he thinks it would be that because it’s just like uh you know the freak of all freak shows in that sense like it crosses over into so many different like fan bases or domains you get all the combat force people but you’d also get the business people to watch I think so I think so and I think it would also be the saddest fight ever yeah it’d also be really a lame to watch but it was actually it was it was actually it was actually kind of up the way Elon was all about it and then all of a sudden it’s like it’s not going to be to you on stage it’s going to be charity like wait a second you can’t play along all this time and then and then all of a sudden pull the rug you know what I mean like yeah did you see the video of him curling a 40 or he had like a 20 pound or 40 pound weight at his office and he did a live Twitter where he was he’s like I’m curling to prepare it’s like no dude I swear to God if you think doing curls at your desk is how you prepare you’re this is not going to be good man you know oh I didn’t see that that’s funny that’s hilarious dude I want to ask let me ask you about some other slick guys so basically a lot of people who don’t watch the UFC they don’t know that uh so Dana’s the front guy you know he’s doing a lot of the match setting and uh he does all the talking and he seems like a wonderful businessman but the Fertitta Brothers interests me most because they were uh I think I think Dana only owned like four or six percent of it when it sold but the Fertitta brothers owned most all of it besides some outside outside money because they were already wealthy but they seem like those guys they don’t do a lot of interviews and they’re a little bit behind the scenes they seem like sharks have you learned anything interesting from uh uh the two brothers and Dana uh about business well so obviously look the they sold their business now right Endeavor ended up yeah you know William Morris at the time they they bought it um but I I had uh pleasure of being able to to you know deal across from Lorenzo Fertitta on particularly uh on a couple clients particularly Connor obviously at that level um and they’re very Savvy businessmen very very composed you know I I it’s not it’s the the dynamic when I’m on the opposite side naturally it’s adversarial a lot of the time right and so um you know at the end of the day I’m advocating for my clients so it’s it’s I’m not their best friend right it’s not like they’re going to invite me over for Christmas and and uh but but we do have we did have a respectful relationship and I really really enjoyed dealing with someone you know that that has been not only successful in our Sport and the Pioneer in it but was a super successful businessman in the casino business and other businesses as well so you learn you learn from the interactions and the dealings and the negotiations that you’re you’re you’re doing like for example when Mayweather McGregor it happened and we we basically got what we were leaving or striving for from a negotiation like Connor and I really we had that moment when we walked out of Lorenzo’s office we’re like you did it you know it was like a moment right and so do you guys like keep a straight face until you get to the parking lot yeah you get like Giddy and start hugging it well in the meeting in in the office you have the smirk you know you don’t give it away right and then yeah when you get in the car yeah you celebrate you know um but yeah man I think it’s the human I think that’s what people don’t realize I mean it’s like it’s the same in all sectors all sports and even the most composed person that doesn’t do any interviews I’m sure I’ve had those moments in their own you know Journeys as well right I read on um front office Sports I think it’s called it’s like a sports publication that the final exit for uh proper 12 was 600 million dollars and I think that was only four years after you started it it’s 600 million dollars in the ballpark three years and I can tell you you listen if it’s probably printed then you’ve got to go with that because I can’t necessarily comment on the specific numbers but we’re still involved too it’s not you know at the end of the day it’s it’s we we’re still you know part of the team we’re still pushing it to grow the brand we just came out with a news flavor our Irish Apple flavor which is amazing um you know dangerously amazing amazing too because I you know you just it drinks it goes down so easy uh but yeah man I’m super proud of that was that was that like a new level for you wealth wise and what I mean or were you able to make money a little bit along the way you know I think that was a whole nother level right that was a whole nother level where you’re able to achieve you know your your your your your you know your ultimate goals right but ultimately too you’re you’re you’re proving your content you know what I mean like ultimately like we’re not having to go sell the platform we’re creating liquidity events by creating opportunities um left and right not just for clients now we’re creating Ventures that are you know creative to the platform we have a a smart basketball technology called hoop we have uh you know some other adventures in the pipeline that are coming out that are very very much focused on on advocacy for the entire Sport and creating something where we’re putting our own capital in these things to create opportunities for everybody else right and so and and there’s other things that we’re creating specifically for our clients right so so you know in lieu of of uh of of of of you know having the opportunity to invest or you know an athlete not maybe not having the brand Equity to go start their own Venture how can we bring them along to ride with us you know for for the next Paw Patrol if you will right I always like to ask people this because I remember you know when you start out in business typically you have kind of nothing to your name and you’ve got this literally nothing credit card debt like exactly nothing so you start at zero or usually you go below zero you dip below zero for way below zero well the funny thing is and this is what people don’t appreciate like my wife now she was my girlfriend and she had a job and we were literally maxed out credit cards and for the first seven years of Paradigm I didn’t take a paycheck I was paying team members and staff before I was paying myself and I think people lose sign to that you know it’s like but but then when you have huge success you still try to do right take care of people but even that’s sometimes no good deed goes unpunished right but ultimately the it’s a war of attrition you have to be able to withstand all of it and really believe in what you’re doing and you know eat sandwiches daily right on your way there you’re not a meeting at you you eat these sandwiches for in your case seven years in my case I remember like sort of eight or nine years straight of just uh like in my case it’s just kind of failure but like in your case at least you’re building it up um and then you finally have the moment where it’s kind of like validated realize a Payday comes in you get a windfall along the way and like financially sure that’s exciting and things change at a logical level but before it hits the logical level there’s kind of the emotional level of like what does that feel like um what thoughts go through your head at that time we had a guy come on the Pod he’s like dude I used to just every day for the next week I just drove to the bank and I would just go in the ATM put my card in and say print receipt because I just wanted to see it and he’s always like I didn’t even have anything James Hong he’s like I didn’t even have anything I wanted to spend it on he’s like I was just amazed I was just amazing to look at that because I knew the seven year or whatever the the years that go into not not being there not having that and we had other people that are like you know this is oddly numb feeling I didn’t feel anything and other people were like you know I had a conversation with myself I said all right now I’m here here’s this pivotal conversation I had myself so I always like to ask people about that moment because I think there’s usually something interesting that happens it’s not just like just another day so it’s surreal to me because you know on on one end it happened during covet so it was a real it was a weird time for all of us right and you know you you you you you you get there and honestly it’s like you’re pinching yourself and you know because it’s a new age you don’t have to necessarily go to the bank account to print the receipt anywhere you can just look at that I certainly did that a few times just like what you know uh but also like you have to make decisions like I we we hired more people we gave people raise we gave people bonuses that had nothing to do with them with that part of the business and and we invested back in the business and so I was first thing I bought was my mom my house and a car and so I like you know I I was trying to really you know stay grounded you know what I mean and more importantly like try to do right you know as best as you can um by for for those that are important to you both um family and on your team right and ultimately um still like just enjoy the moment and because we were kind of everybody locked in at home it was you know every night it was for my wife and I was just surreal and it’s like you know then you start to think about okay well you tell your kids do you not how do you raise them the right way and how do you make sure you keep them hungry and humble and you know what I mean it’s not about that and a lot of things change right because it’s like you get there and you start to realize um you got to start planning thinking and and acting differently but then also other unintended issues start to come up you know like you know that was I forgot Mo Money Mo Problems is true you know at the end of the day uh what problems just a lot of different things I think people want people want people think that they deserve uh unappreciative people no matter what you give them you know they just unfortunately have a self-inflated view um you know I think there’s there’s a whole list of issues that come up with it right uh that’s the reality but it is you gotta take the good the bad the ugly and just keep rolling punches and level up and level up and evolve that’s what it is I thought you were gonna say you had a red panty night I was I was waiting for it that was the you said it for me I did and you had two bites of the apple right if I remember correctly like I think you guys did you guys sell a portion of the business early on and I think you sold half of it and then yeah another I don’t know if it was the half or the rest or another big chunk yeah right yep was it a hard decision to sell or did you have 600 million reasons I mean it was I mean look any first of all it was an amazing at the time but I always ask the fact you’re like now we still have we’re still part of the business so we can still keep making a lot of money in in into the next decade or and longer you know at the end of the day um because uh it’s always difficult to think about oh Woulda Shoulda Coulda right but you got to be able to count you know the fortunes of it all um you know and and be grounded and and that positive reality it’s not a negative thing you know it’s very easy to always Monday Morning Quarterback something like oh we shouldn’t have sold because this this and now but you have those regrets which I think is normal by the way I think most people who no maybe most I think who they sell but you you all if you sell it right you tend to sell early right I mean that tends to happen I think I think the way we structured the deal allows us to really not only we made a ton of money but we just continue to make a ton of money and and you know ultimately have I had those thoughts sure you always think about it and because it’s for me it’s more so okay it’s about execution right so not only did we execute but then how’s how’s the deal how’s the terms how’s this how’s that you know so I’m kind of like constantly watching the film to make sure that I’m learning and growing as an entrepreneur because I’m not resting on my Laurels either I’m not done right and so I’m I’m still playing the game while you play the game you got to be able to not only celebrate the victories but watch the tape back and see where you could have gotten better right that’s the only way you’re going to be the best at what you do so I have a partner who a business partner who basically he was he was already successful before but his second company he was about to get a 200 million dollar check for the sale and it was a like a one of those like clickbaity websites on Facebook that showed like top 10 lists and then Facebook changed the algorithm and the sale sale dropped from 200 million to like 30 million and it was just a massive issue because of platform risk and there’s a lot of fear of platform risk do you do you view Connor as like your platform risk like if he really because he gets in trouble uh sometimes and he gets accused of a lot of stuff sometimes maybe he actually did do it sometimes he didn’t do it do you get nervous about platform risk with Conor of like if he does something really bad I’m I’m yeah well he’s been accused of a lot of things and he’s never been that’s that’s the the facts right uh but obviously there’s always risk and everything and I think when you look at you know such a you know Connor’s kind of like an enigma right so there’s certainly going to be uh those that may be reverse and not want to do anything but at the end of the day whoever gets involved with us understands the McGregor brand right and understands inherent risks that potentially come with that but ultimately they also look at the track record and that is always going to win the day right because you could make all these claims accusation whatever but with the facts of the facts and the results are the results and the data is the data so I think when you look at all those things some of all parts is why we have a healthy relationship with all of our business partners and we continue to incubate and launch other exciting businesses and around the Connor brand for me he’s the biggest client he’s the he’s also the top one percent you know pop culture brand in the world so it’s like unless I go inside the other people in that small uh bucket if you will he’s yeah he’s always going to have uh you know that that let’s call it you know uh proportionate risk value across my platform right but ultimately we’re also you know much more than just one client and we’re building something that for me is into the future right Sean do you see what happened with Barstool so basically Barstool Sports sold to a Betting Company a pen pen yeah and I don’t remember the final sale 600 million plus Dave made a killing thank you guys stock nothing right a lot of stock yeah he got a lot of stock I think he got some uh I think he was able to sell some I know I know that the the on Wall Street you could see that he did sell a little bit and he um basically after three years pen was like you guys are insane like you’re it’s really hard for us to do like because we’re regulated as a casino it’s really hard to let you do what you want to do without hurting us and ESPN wants to do this big deal with us but they won’t do it for with Barstool you know what Dave here look just have the company back and if you ever sell it again we get half of the profit cool and in exchange we’re gonna do this ESPN deal which is going to boost our stock we’re good it was like the the greatest coup of all time of like you know Dave getting uh Dave selling it and then them just saying here actually we don’t want this uh you know maybe we have a world where the buyer of proper 12 is like hey this was cool and all but you know what you could just have it it’s yours now yeah I think it was brilliant it’s a great move for him and I think he still has pen stock too so then the stock goes up but he’s winning again so good for him uh yeah that then that’s a that’s an interesting sector where we’re getting ready to enter into it that’s uh I’m interested to see what they do with it now right barstools and see what they end up through the end up you know partnering with to try to get that off the ground you probably I’m guessing you kind of studied other people who had Talent like this like I don’t know if you’re in a group chat with like Scooter Braun and like you know Don Shahidi or some of these guys that are managing you know the sort of the big scores those same top one percent kind of like people who can move the needle John’s and John’s of John’s a friend I don’t know scooter but John’s a friend who’s John what’s his last name the guy who manages the health boys now um oh yeah yeah a dozen or so of some of the top podcasts and personalities you know he’s a he’s a he’s certainly a entrepreneur I respect and he um and so you you kind of study them a little bit if somebody was studying you and they see what you’re doing with Conor and how you built like I’m just gonna name them off so you did the Whiskey brand proper 12. you have Netflix documentaries and like entertainment that way you have Road House which is the new movie coming out you have the August McGregor the the suit lines you have title which is like the recovery spray you have the fast app which is like Fitness like app uh plus and I think like Jim’s coming or whatever like you know something like that like a fitness brand that obviously fits there we have actually have a event based uh competition coming three called 3ko so that’s gonna be you know think of of Spartan Race meets meets meets uh CrossFit Games you know very cool so you have that you have uh I think it’s like a mobile game that he’s in you do like kind of the the silver fight with Mayweather there’s all these different things you’ve done around that person that brand and I’m sure some of them worked amazingly and some of them probably were too much work for what they were worth you just you learn as you go right you’re not I doubt you were the one entrepreneur who just magically had everything right from day one no no way right so if somebody was studying you or somebody had you know it was it was hat was with the next McGregor was it with another star Creator would you what would be your kind of like advice to that person how would you advise them based on your learnings of the last 10 years of trying to figure this out yeah I mean first and foremost I’m still learning right I’m still learning I’m still growing what I would say is you know you have to be ready to uh you know not only dream but act on those dreams right and come prepared from a research and preparation perspective building out a plan and being fluid because it’s not always going to go to plan right but if you’re prepared and you do have a plan you’re you’re likely more you know you’re likely to execute even if you have to deviate a little bit because you have to stay fluid with what reality hits you with right um You have to also have thick skin man like at the end of the day it’s a war of attrition you’re gonna eat sandwiches daily for a long time and so you got to be able to withstand that with a smile but be able to see through all the noise the pressure and more importantly have that ability to communicate with that with that client right because you guys have to stay in sync in terms of what you’re building um I would say you know one of the things I wish I would have done build a team around you that’s more experienced than you right because ultimately I think that that’s what’s going to allow you to accelerate your plan as opposed to Bringing people and then having to do other with other things like those people turning on you well what were one reason or not how big is the Paradigm team it’s still Boutique so we’re about 15 on the whole code level but then every brand Coast you will uh has has its own respective team right um and what I would also say is you know don’t don’t stop innovating right um don’t stop trying to create new opportunities that have to align right with your client right organically but you got to make sure you’re able to clearly Define that what’s your criteria so like you’ve gone into these 10 different categories how do you pick which category to go into what what is it the line organically right and they have to have a genuine interest because you can’t sell something that’s fake I mean everybody thought and it’s another thing everybody thought proper 12 was going to be a gimmick until they tried it obviously if you don’t drink you don’t drink but if you try it oh my God this is great make sure we created a substantive brand right it wasn’t going to be just something that we just put his face on it and try to sell and that’s important I know to him as well and that’s why he believes in in in the ventures that that that that he’s involved with he’s very passive but it’s they’re of substance as well they’re quality so you have to understand the market you have to understand the players in the market you have to understand how you fit in or how you can disrupt the marketing grab market share and you have to put a plan together that allows you to to have a higher probability of success with the black belts that are going to help you operate the business you know and then having all the other components that making sure that you could actually build a product or service or substance by the way did you ever consider just putting his name on it it’s like you have like uh Jameson or Johnny Walker or Jack Daniels like McGregor’s name is so famous it’s interesting decisions they actually take it’s taken I did think about that there’s a the McGregor Clan I think it’s the scotch I’m not mistaken so that that was certainly considered we we also considered notorious Irish whiskey at one point right um and and you know again even early earlier days a couple other things that were floated around but no proper 12’s a good name Paw Patrol is good again what’s it mean like the choice is it like the 12 districts of like Dublin Dublin 12. so each let’s call it yeah Borough or city within Dublin is is a number and where he’s from is Dublin 12. and so and proper I mean they always say that was a proper night out you know like oh it’s proper good time and um so it’s you know proper number 12. that just made sense for the brand and again after pivoting several groups and finding the right Partners you know we came up with the brand together and Sean and I are big fans of of words you know like we’ll hear someone say something and we’re like oh man the language they used was beautiful that was really good language whether it’s writing or just someone talking the cool thing about Connors he he’s got a beautiful vocabulary and beautiful timing and beautiful phrasing so he uses wonderful words and so like I remember when he was fighting Jose Aldo he would talk about like he was like if this was another time I would storm your pavilla and then he like talks about like what he would do to the and uh like he like you know the whole red panty night like he just has like really funny catchy phrases I guess Trump kind of did this too where he just like it was just really catchy stuff are you guys ever just shooting the and you’re like oh that’s a line we’re going to we’re gonna have to use that um very natural and going back to the Acumen I mean that is stuff that it’s not rehearsed it’s very much stuff that he just comes up with but we’d be there and he’d say some stuff like that was hilarious that’s another that’s another mcgregor-ism you know what I mean like you’re like put that in the bank use that one I have two fan service questions that are around that number one yeah well during the Mayweather press tour uh which was just like that was that was so much fun but it looked like because all UFC press tours are the same you go you sit and they ask you questions and then you react whereas that one was like stand up and give a speech and it almost looked like Conor was almost ambushed like oh I just got to give a 20-minute improvised speech in front of millions of people right now and then they kind of did it was that an ambush I always wondered yeah no idea what the format was going to be like and Sam yes it was exactly at the time but just thinking back to it every time it kind of comes up from whether it’s the annual anniversary whatever it may be it was such a great experience man and it was like once in a lifetime thing because you know Sean there was no format that’s your point I don’t know if you felt ambushed but certainly we’re like oh what how is it for this one how is it for that one right but the energy of all of them was out of this world and so I think that they fed off that energy which gave them the ability to deliver these legendary lines and answered back and forth I remember watching it and it was clear that he was like wait there’s no questions I just have to I just have have to go okay I’m a comedian now all right bet and he said this line he goes you know they they’ve tried everything they didn’t tell us the format my microphone doesn’t work they’re trying to put me in a uncomfortable situation but they don’t know I thrive in uncomfortable situations I almost feel like he was giving himself a pep talk during the speech I I really loved that line that was that was great but I also have another kind of fan service question on almost the other side of the coin so as you can tell me and Sam both fans of you of the UFC of Conor like we really it’ll take a lot of inspiration from some of the you know it’s just a badass thing to go out there and just fight and and put yourself on the line like that every single time there’s something to be admired with that for sure and I think Conor came in with a very uh like at the beginning how could you hate the guy like he was he was bold he came from nowhere he was like you know this guy who was like a you know Apprentice plumber and then was like all of a sudden beating everybody exactly this way he said he would his fighting style was electric like there was nothing to dislike about the guy I thought on the on the come up uh I’m sure some people did but like the majority of fans I think were were on the come up were just like this guy’s incredible and then there’s sort of almost like a heel turn now where um I know a lot of people who I watch fights with they sort of feel like he’s kind of jumped the shark like oh you know now he’s this like first of all she’s like super jacked now in this huge way he’s like more of a boxer he’s he hasn’t fought in a long time you know he talks tracking maybe he’s crossing the line too much oh he’s getting in trouble like there’s all these things honestly like I know he’s your client and he’s your friend and you’re probably never gonna say a bad word about it but I think there are some Fair criticisms that like you know it’s understandable why somebody who was a super fan might now feel like ah you know I can’t really you know get behind everything that I’m that I’m seeing here um do you think about that at all and do you uh I guess like what’s your reaction to that I I don’t really know how to phrase the question but I feel like you’re one of the few people on Earth who would have an opinion about this that I would really care to hear I mean look it’s just like you are engaged with these conversations naturally I’m gonna hear everything right from people around me and you know whether it’s my friends whether it’s family and ultimately what I’ll say is this like you know everybody’s entitled to their own opinion I know who the person is and obviously I I do have an intimate relationship it’s something that’s more than just transactionals more than just a client a business partner someone that I I’m I’m loyal Tunes been loyal to me and so at the end of the day you know I know that history once it’s done being written will be interpreted by everybody differently he’s definitely not perfect he’s definitely made mistakes but a lot of the criticism too is subjective it’s based on where where you stand and what you believe in or what you want to see Etc but AKA never been legally all those accusations have not been legally found to be true right B it was the cleanest and the most tested athlete before he got out of these shadow pool and when he returns to fighting he’s going to do it the right way and everything’s going to be legal so everybody can say what they want to say there’s nothing that was done wrong right and so he’s he’s constantly being vilified because ultimately the stuff that they love them for he still does the all outspoken they’ll says what’s on the top of his mind but maybe because he has the riches now and it’s not the rags anymore sometimes we try to tear some people down I don’t know why I can’t tell you right but ultimately I do know proofs in the puddin he has to continue to go out there and show that he could continue to evolve be the best version of himself not just athletically but as a human being as well and ultimately that’s on him to do and I can’t do that for him you can’t do that for him but criticism is going to come and when you’re when you’re in the public eye you got to be ready to to take it on and at the end of the day Heavy’s the head that wears the crown you can’t just want the good and not take the bad with it so ultimately that’s something that we constantly talk about something that I know he says I say to him we talk about he understands that but it doesn’t make it easy it doesn’t make it easy because ultimately at least like you know you know you talk about that that aha moment I don’t know how many entrepreneurs you’ve had on this podcast but when they have that big moment they don’t need to be seen by everybody they’re probably enjoying it with nobody watching them or if they go somewhere nobody really recognizing who they are right myself included so ultimately it’s very desperate and um that doesn’t you know you can essentially absolve him of the responsibility that he has to take upon himself in certain instances but more importantly it makes me understand pressure is real not only to win and succeed but on another level to live your life so visibly for everybody to just critique every little thing in today’s world man everybody has an opinion you know you guys before you met me you thought I was a square suit because of how I appeared physically visually to you without ever talking to me before right so it’s like very easy than fast judgment based on whatever your belief system is how you’re raised your experiences with someone that look like me whatever it may be or your opinions of Agents just because you watch Entourage and parlors but I I can’t change that ultimately right and so when you live in today’s world like that for everybody to critique man it’s gonna come with now just the good but the bad the ugly as well you got to deal with it I like the fan questions you know this is it’s fun we’ve had Ariel hawani on here uh you know we’ve become friendly with Ben asper and I think we’ve talked to Mike Mike Bisping we’ve talked to a bunch of folks it’s uh you know Sean and I are super fans so it’s always fun to like get like The Insider how many fights have you guys been to in person I’ve only been to three or four the the the in-person event is definitely like the best in-person sporting event but in my opinion if you’re like a uh like a a nerd and a fan fan it’s so much better to hear the commentary and to see it on uh and just like to see like the replay of the Sean Malley uh knockout uh on Saturday like it was really awesome to be able to like see it close up you know one challenge with UFC which is that the cage and the cameraman on every post of the cage does kind of screw up the viewing experience depending on where you’re at like I’m sure if you’re right next to right ringside it maybe you don’t have that issue but like we went to one event at the the Vegas Place uh the one where um mosvidol need Aspirin into like you know you know the next realm and uh and you know the guy I saw it but the guy next to me like literally couldn’t even see the thing he missed the moment because it was like a split it was like in the first five seconds of the fight and secondly like you know just because of a cage like if you go to a football game or a basketball game it’s open field it’s you know it’s very easy to see what’s going on whereas you’re almost watching on the dumbotron well it’s interesting first of all I think look there are pros and cons to your both your points the energy of a big fights is something else it’s electric I mean just the walkouts and the crowd and you steal it and then you hear the thuds and you know it’s like it’s it’s pretty pretty amazing I was at uh Jorge and Nate and it was like spectacular right it just it’s just nice to be able to like you got to go home and watch it again yeah yeah but then from A View perspective to your point unless you’re like the first few rows of the floor it’s actually that the the the mid low Riser which is the perfect view because you’re looking into the Octagon but you’re still really fairly close and I think that’s the best you live right but um nonetheless no matter where your seats are I think for big big events you the the electricity of that place is something else you know so what’s gonna happen like I’m following this whole circus with Dylan danis and Logan I have I’ve never even seen Dylan Danish train I went and watched his two Bellator fights but that was like years ago what’s gonna happen like I don’t know I’ve never even seen Spar or anything on like leading up videos what’s gonna happen uh on that one said August it’s August 14th Logan is is obviously has a uh uh a leg up having you know box before right yeah that was years ago I think he’s bigger no listen listen I I get it uh uh you know the fight’s actually scheduled October 14th but but oh October Dylan has made all the necessary necessary adjustments to his life to his preparation but this is his boxing debut so he has to go in there and really prove it right now I could tell you the banter that’s going back and forth I mean you know he’s confident in his abilities and he’s definitely putting in the work so ultimately you don’t you don’t make you know you don’t take that position with the banter that he’s doing if you’re not going in there with some level of confidence in yourself right so and and I and I’m sure it’s giving Logan a little bit more training for it right because ultimately it’s it’s personal now I would imagine right um oh yeah not even Conor you know king of Trash Talk counter wouldn’t even he never even went that far uh to talk about family I don’t like that he’s talking about family but I like it in the sense of like I’m gonna stare at it I have a kid on the internet and I think it’s funny too you know yeah yeah like it’s too far but at the same time like but it’s there you know what I mean I’m watching that I think what’s interesting is the you know love it or hate it the engagement for that is through the roof and you know it should help show the fight and more importantly like it’s about now performing right because ultimately you can talk all you want now you got to go on the phone but he’s made all the adjustments to his life personally professionally which which I’m very proud of him for doing that will give him that that high chance of winning this I think he’s gonna yes and shock a lot of people people are not giving him enough credit I think when he gets in there it’s it’s just time to shine now he’s putting he’s gonna put he’s gonna basically put his money where his mouth is because the mouth is getting it ready is going to make people want to watch him love him right well you’re you’re kind of implying you’re like well it doesn’t matter unless he loses and uh I kind of disagree I think uh I think he’s already won whether he loses or or not like he’s he’s already kind of like from where he was starting to where he is now like you know he’s already gotten he’ll be okay he’ll even if he gets knocked out right away he’ll probably be better off than where he was oh this is a great opportunity for him no doubt no doubt thanks for doing this man uh where should people follow you if they want to get more just uh my first and last name at auditar Twitter Instagram threads sorry yeah sorry yeah at audience audience threads audiot Instagram I think one of three still remain all right Audi thanks for doing this man all right just Sean Sam thank you so much appreciate it and that’s the pod