Episode of My First Million with Sam Parr and Shaan Puri.
Transcript
Note: This transcript was auto-generated from YouTube captions. It may contain errors and lacks speaker identification. A full Gemini audio transcript will replace this.
Kind: captions Language: en and I think I’ve I’ve chased opportunities to make money which have been fleeting they’ve been profitable but fleeting and I think when you’re in your 20s you should do those frankly you should just do the things that are like hot and exciting if you think want to make money and then in your 30s you start reflecting more like Wow mortality is real what’s really important and I think you’ll come back to finding how do I work on problems and things that I want created for in my own world know what’s going on sampar um in meetings all day and I’m heading out to California in four hours so I was just I haven’t been on this podcast in a minute because I was in Austin I drove from California to Austin I hung out with Noah Neville and a bunch of people and now Noah is coming to Malibu or I’m coming to SF for a month and then I’m gonna go to Malibu for a month where are you staying in San Francisco Andrew Chen’s house oh that’s right you told me I I’ve decided that I’m gonna get rid of my apartment in San Francisco and I’m gonna live in different cities for one or two months each I we’re copying each other Sam you went bald so I went bald you’re I’m moving places so you’re moving places I need to get glasses a dog yeah well yeah you know uh I need a few things your funding we we know each other well but can you tell the listeners who you are what is up you sexy listeners Noah Kagan I’m a cyclist I’m a chess player lately I’m making a lot of content on YouTube about everything I’m learning at appSumo calm that’s youtube.com slash okay dork I helped start appSumo Khan which is the number one site online for software deals and hate figure company been around ten years I was number 30 at Facebook number four at mint calm and then the two other things that I like working on and playing with business-wise ascend fox.com which is a free email list for content creators and okay dr. calm which is my said about overcoming fear starting and marketing startups and no one I have known each other for six or seven years oh wow now we’re you’re well I think you’re five or six years older than me we’re very similar personalities we’re a little crazy we have a bunch of different ideas would you say that’s accurate yeah I didn’t like you for a long time why so sometimes you’ll hang out with Sam if you guys have hung out or had the chance to you know the same he’s like how much what are you making doing this one thing and it’s like it’s like someone asked you like how big is your like dude I don’t know you and you’re asking a really personal kind of aggressive it’s almost it’s like to the level of transactional that’s just a little too much versus what you’d expect from a friend and I think sometimes it’s interesting to observe the people or companies that were jealous of or the companies were reacting negatively negatively to and really trying to understand that and our first experience I think if I recall you wanted me to come speak at the hustle no III what it was yeah I wanted you to speak at an event and I you asked me to write a blog post for you and I wrote this blog post and then you didn’t publish it and I was like what the [ ] there was just weird vibes I was getting from you and so it didn’t make me excited to want to do anything and then you sent me like a nutribullet or some kind of item and I was just like this guy weirds me out I don’t like how he’s behaving and so over the years though I’ve started to appreciate your quirkiness and it’s probably like me I’m sure some people listening to me with like I don’t like the style I think the point for everyone is not to just go and accept everyone and love everything but to observe our jealousy observe a negativity observe our criticism and think about what we’re trying to really say about it ourselves or learn about ourselves I think one thing I would say about you Sam that I’ve appreciated is that it’s interesting to observe the people in life who get what they want because those people you don’t see all the things they’re not getting and I really respect with Sam how persevering you are I think there’s a lot of times where I’m like oh yeah this guy is gonna go there’s so many people I’m like oh they’re gonna quit soon and I definitely you know the hustle wouldn’t be anything without effort and I think without you just kept going and won’t stop and I think more people have to some people like well I don’t have that I’m not saying power or not no kickin I’m not it’s like yeah you’re yourself which is even better and it’s just finding the things that you’d never want to give up on so find your hustle find your appSumo find your okay dork calm and just find something you’ll never quit on and then go for it that’s one thing I definitely appreciated watching your journey from afar you said you didn’t like me or I rub you the wrong way were you saying that begin then you said jealousy you’re saying because you think I was jealous of you or you jealous of me or not at the time I just found you kind of I was uncertain of your motive I did it spinning like six years so I’m not just exact sure I don’t you know I do have I do spend most of my days thinking about you hmm I think everyone’s favorite story is themself so if you ever want to talk to someone be like hey you know what I noticed about you and they’re like what but I think feedback is a whole nother thing we can talk about that I think I just had a weird vibe and I didn’t know what your intentions were and I think what was interesting is like other friends of ours were like oh yeah he’s a good dude and he is but I was like I guess I’m missing something so let’s uh we’re gonna talk about business in a second and I think this is kind of an interesting conversation because but I think that what has brought us to be friends is our mutual friend novel Medora who is both of ours best friend he was the best man at my wedding and you have a wall you have a brother but he probably had it not been for your brother he probably would be in that category for you as well and so it’s interesting how like like you could we both see how we’re loyal to one person and that brings like good qualities out of each other I think Neville said I’m his number one I know if you talked to him recently well we can fight over that what he says in bed to both of us he’s like no I never said he said I was ever one but I know we both we’re both loyal to similar people so let’s talk about let’s talk about different interesting companies and businesses that we’re both looking at because we’re you and I are the same and that we’re both like pretty big schemers and not that we do [ ] all the time but we both like like like to figure out how things work what are you looking at like you’re really interested in the email space with sin Fox I’m interested in that as well what what interests you about email like why are you like cuz AB sumos pretty successful you don’t have to start new [ ] if you didn’t want to why are you choosing sin Fox I think choosing it one of my favorite books around the words that you use is the dali lama’s art of happiness and i love that you were chose alright because i don’t have to do anything I want to do things I don’t need to do stuff I want stuff and I think it’s interesting for all of us to be aware of that and it must stay everyone I think what in my life I think one of the things that drives me is curiosity and I think in terms of business like if people out there you know listen to this and say hey I want you my business started the best business to start is something that solves your own problem and so for me I was using MailChimp I’ve used convertkit I’ve checked out Aweber check one I found him way over expensive I found him way over complicated to me like 45 minutes to set up MailChimp email and so I was like I just want something more affordable and simpler and that’s where we built Sun Fox and I think that’s something where I’ll keep working on it forever with the team I think what’s interesting is trying to think about what’s gonna happen in the next six months to six years and then how do I be a little bit ahead of everyone else so if you think about it let me ask you soon do you think there’s gonna be more or less content creators in the future absolutely more so I think you know the one problem that I notice with all the channels like YouTube or Instagram or tic toc or any of these is that ultimately they are incentivized to get you to pay to talk to your audience why because they have to make money and so email is the only channel I’ve ever found that can scale communicating with an audience that you can fully control and so I think if San Fox becomes the number one place of people to grow their audiences one I want it for myself number one and two is just a really big and interesting opportunity to work on so we send how many emails do I send a year maybe six or seven hundred million I don’t even know to be honest I’m appSumo probably has a similar amount of emails like hundreds of millions of sends per year well I pay I think I pay 10 or 15 grand a month to send those is it done right I don’t really know I think what there’s two things that are more interesting to me one I’ve been focusing more on the total audience that you have available because email isn’t is a component of your audience right so you actually have like hustle on Facebook hustle Instagram hustle YouTube hustle podcast and your total active audience and there’s overlap that number I’m actually more fascinated with and the second thing with email I think the metric cost is one thing but I think though you said said [ ] you said said Fox was trying to make it cheaper because you’re more affordable I don’t like the portable yeah Laura for you yeah because you’re not seen how much is that to cost ascend I like for us really it I’ll tell you if you take point zero zero zero two and then times about how many emails so the thing that MailChimp and convertkit and all these guys so point zero zero two times your number so they make money if you don’t send emails because they make money off your subscriber of course and so the way that’s so send fox is free and then we’re a one-time payment because most people don’t actually email and so we’re trying to fix that and work through those kind of challenges with people but the other thing I think people need to think about in terms of growing their community you’re starting a newsletter like if you don’t have one start it today you send fox comm number one but the second thing is the number that’s the most important is not your email list size it is your active email a size so it is the amount of people within three months that have opened and clicked your email because you know I’ve had hundreds of thousands from I think in my total lifetime of okay dork I’ve had a hundred and seventy-five thousand subscribe to the newsletter my active audience is only 55 think about that yeah and that’s what we do too but we turn people every three months like we sunset them like when we send them an email be like hey you’re gonna get we’re gonna take you off this list what percentage is it I don’t know off the top of my head to be honest with you but I know that like one I could tell you this though so like our open rates really really high right now it’s like 55 percent and I think the average person saves two years so you could somehow figure out what that is yeah but but like like if we don’t get them on the hook right away then they’re never gonna get on the hook how do you gonna hook your welcome email needs to be really good your Thank You page after they sign up need to be really good you know this [ ] this is what you did good dude here’s the thing I’m still learning well you had this root even your unsubscribe page needs to be great which you didn’t you have a really good unsubscribe path but I gave up on that one I think the Thank You page and you’re welcome thing are like the two of the most neglected pieces of marketing yeah I call them like you have to make the Forgotten parts really good so like your Thank You page your welcome email your unsubscribe page just like little Easter Egg [ ] like that it needs to be good but to make them good yeah well are so I get accused of stealing CD babies email welcome email which I didn’t even know what that was but then when I saw it I realized oh yeah I can I totally understand why people see this steal that stole that but my welcome email was a like a really detailed welcome email that it was like really long and explained what happened when you signed up and it was pretty funny and like if your Google like the hustle welcome email a lot of people wrote about it people seem to like that so just like being creative and writing long-form content about what happened after those types of things when those people signed up it works pretty well but with so let’s say like convertkit let’s say convertkit is doing twenty million dollars a year in sales which converts awesome because i like the guy who started it I like convertkit and they reveal all their revenue numbers if they’re doing twenty million in revenue like you said that you try to make cent fox more affordable I have no idea how much do they actually charge think - or how much are they what’s their cogs in order to send all those emails Oh point zero zero - it might be Oh point zero zero zero one five times how many subscribe how many emails are sending a month the profit is all in the people who don’t email it’s basically I think of email marketing companies is very expensive hosting you’re basically paying a lot of money to host zeros and ones and digits that don’t cost anything and so I think more importantly if people are businesses like that’s a really interesting business to start it’s also interesting business to disrupt like I think sub stack has done amazing with it coming at it from like hey email is actually free and we’re gonna make money on the subscription part so you don’t have to pay for email anymore same with sin Fox it’s like it’s mostly free and we’re gonna be focusing we’re focusing more on like youtubers and podcasters so it’s like who are the audience’s that aren’t really emailing enough or don’t know how to email for this specific type of audience I think a market for that is musician spans I think there’s a few like if you look at them money where musicians make it is in concerts and they’re horrible at notifying you when they’re coming into town well if you already type it type in right now I was typing some note dude relax but yeah I think musicians I mean I think the point though you have to serve a customer that I think you have an understanding of I think a lot of these want renews out they’re like oh yeah let me go help musicians I’m like one I don’t know [ ] about musicians I’m learning to play piano it’s right here but the point being is like I think we it’s not that you shouldn’t go outside of your comfort zone I think there’s easier ways of success and I think more too many people make it too hard on themselves and it’s just like going to your own problems or go into problems of people around you that you have easier access to what about have you been looking into amp for email yeah some of this stuff I mean I also you know there’s also talk about any emails dying and all this stuff I’m like people are using it left and right I’ve seen amp where it’s like a little bit more of dynamic and faster loading emails I think the most important thing about email is not necessarily the layouts and all that stuff I think the most important thing is how do you build a relationship where people are expecting your email we’re like if I stopped emailing or the hustle didn’t come they’re like something is wrong with my day and until you could spit that point you’re you’re probably worrying about the wrong problems yeah I mean that’s the hard part obviously that’s like how do you create I mean that’s just about creating good [ ] but I still think the whole amp thing is actually super interesting what what I’m working on is a few ways to hack it because I kind of am obsessed with like storytelling in email and so what can you like if you think about what is a Jif to me a jiff is a moveable image that has no sound well so is most of the video that you use on Instagram on Facebook it’s just audio or it’s just a video with no sound like because a lot of times you don’t even click like listen you know I’m saying and so what I’m interested is how can I use amp to tell a story in an email in a video format or like all these other hacks like that that’s incredibly interesting to me I think there’s something there with that the thing that we’ve been doing with sin Fox that we’ve been building in is there’s kind of like two major components that I think are lacking an email so number one is how do you build in like what the hustle and morning brew hobb which is building referrals so we’ve basically built that in so anyone can have their own referral engine within emails that was a huge pain in the ass for us I know so we built it and it works and I’m doing it on ok so if you got a sin fox.com slash Noah you can see how it looks or sign up for yourself and it’s built in for free I think the second thing that we’re observing so what everyone wants is like how do I grow my audience and how do I send consistent emails because if you’re not sending something weekly you get forgotten and in this age of attention we’re all fighting for it and so we built this thing called weekly newsletter template or week I think they’re called branding it’s smart campaigns and so the idea there is that we suck in all of your social information we look at what’s most popular and then we basically just like we recommend like hey here’s the three things that you should email your audience this week and so that’s what I do every Wednesday I just pull my two of my favorite things and one of someone else’s to try to spread joy and love and build relationship with people I don’t know yet how many people are working on sin Fox I think there’s two developers one designer David is the GM maybe like six so hey you see Hey long obviously you saw that so for those who don’t know hey calm it’s a new email service it’s pretty neat I don’t know if it’s gonna be big but I definitely I think it’s cool that they are trying that I think I think it actually will be big but that’s the irrelevant what that company did it started by 37signals they have a team of like 50 people and they make money through Basecamp I think right that’s their main thing and they’ve used all they’ve used all those profits to fund hey which I don’t know how many engineers they had on that probably a lot actually it’s pretty robust already at my company what I’m trying to do we’re taking all of our profits and we’re launching more stuff how are you figuring out how much are your profit to allocate to these side projects like send fax and like these new products so the way that we’ve approached it recently is a little bit more structured look away that the question that we ask is basically two things one can we make our money back within 18 months 18 months so will we make break-even money back sick 18 months and secondly is it at least a seven-figure decision so is it at least if it’s not a seven-figure opportunity we won’t do it the reality is the majority of the money is best spent into whatever is making the most me from a capitalist standpoint some of that time stuff the short term versus long term and so with sin Fox right now the number we made our money back immediately because there’s only one developer part-time and one GM and then as it started becoming more profitable it was like alright well let’s keep it let’s make sure it’s a seven-figure business and now we’re focusing on because we know it’s an opportunity we’re saying how do we get this to be a you know 150 100 million dollar business or whatever yeah go we’re more focused right now on building our goal there is active audience so I think one thing with company metrics is how do you line your customer success to your company metric success of your company Northstar so percent Fox right now we’re at a million active audience meaning of all of our subscribers we reach a million active customers through them and so if we can grow that number to three million that’s our goal this year then all of our customers is more successful and then we will be subsequently more successful so how long has it been how long have you had people working on it for about two years I mean what’s fascinating at this just is a quick side note Sam is that there’s a debate internally not debate but there’s discussion internally that if we would have spent all the money and time that we built on sin Fox and King sumo and Hall drop and meet fam and all the things we’ve done just on appSumo the main thing would it have been a hundred million dollar business today and their likelihood is yeah well that’s why I’m asking these things says I’m going through the same process for I’m like man I got this cash cow and a lot of people listening they also have the same thing where they have these companies but like we’re [ ] degenerates and we can’t not make [ ] well our strengths our greatest strengths are generally our greatest weaknesses so our greatest strengths for I don’t know I won’t speak for you my greater strength is igniting like I go and start somethin and I’m like really quick and I’m really fast my greatest weakness is is like consistency I always think of it as like oh I’m a great igniter but I’m not a great consistent source of fuel and so you have to find that balance of who is your fuel so for me Amon is fuel David over at Sand Fox is fuel and then I can go focus on the igniting part and I think that’s where you can find success in life which is what are you [ ] amazing at just do that stuff and it’s hard because we feel guilty or we feel weak and but it is finding the people that I can compliment you on those others there’s other sides but take it another example like like the to my to my ferret examples that everyone knows is Netflix and Amazon how many revenue streams does Netflix have a lot no [ ] one what the Netflix has one monthly subscription no Netflix yeah but I’m saying Netflix is worth two hundred billion dollars from one 9.99 a month subscription so Amazon on the other hand is worth a trillion and they've got in terms of significant revenue streams probly like three or four and so I think there's many different ways of eating a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup I think you have to kind of figure it out for yourself what style of business so for me with with mine I literally I thought about this this morning might might my ambitions and enjoyment and fulfillment come from like promoting dope stuff which we do in appSumo sharing what I'm learning while doing that which is happening on YouTube and my podcast no kicking presents a podcast and then three making things that I want for myself which is sin Fox and I'm like can I just do this till I die or maybe I'll do this so if I can live forever and I think that's what we're all we're all striving for so Sean is joining us now Sean just got out of a can you say where you were Sean something more important than this depends what this is gonna air but but yeah I was yeah I got pulled into something very interesting but I will share probably from now got it okay so uh tteyuu [ __ ] man right now I know so we're talking to Noah about well you heard a bunch of different stuff no can I ask you I did a pod recently where I talked about delegating and hiring like a CEO and general managers can I've learned how to do this through reading a few books I learned how to do this from talking a David Howser who were friends with I learned how to do it through talking indirectly like learning from you on how to do it like I would talk to a mint I would talk to you a little bit about it I talked to Neville what was your process like for doing that because you have three or four how many GM's you have or whatever you call them I think there's three GM's right now so there's Hall drop there's appSumo and then there's a send Fox David does send Fox and King sumo I think what's actually interesting taking a step back how many CEOs do you think there are an Amazon CEO title or job people who were CEOs and their own businesses that are now running divisions of Amazon yeah exactly and so the people that want to start their own businesses if you can figure out how to and align their incentives and their motivation within your business is how you create a trillion dollar business and so this examples of this by the way there's Alibaba rocket internet has done this wonderfully it sounds like you're doing it well who else has done it well Amazon has done it well there's way more where they cut a bit of a company I'm obsessed with his coke coke family the Koch Industries they've done that okok I always call it [ __ ] but I get corrected fit it's coke who cares just call them rich the old white fox no I don't know their [ __ ] but III think in terms of delegation leadership I actually think one of my superpowers is just like observations of greatness so here's something it's like [ __ ] cares about no I think what I would do is a listener and this is what I still do this day I'm almost 14 I still do this any time you notice anything impressive reach out to the person that's it and over your lifetime figure out how the [ __ ] do I get around that guy or girl and I think that will lead you to an easier six chances of greatness because it's a lot harder to like go out and try to like date and find people just from the ground up it's much easier if you're like man like you know the people I worked at Facebook honestly the best ever literally the best ever and so it's like oh [ __ ] any in figure out I haven't able to keep around him because we had a falling out obviously but it's like alright how do I be you have more of that so like Garrett Garrett's the lead developer on sin Fox he built a wordpress plugin that i bought for like a hundred dollars like six seven years ago and then I said hey can I pay you like 25 30 bucks an hour to fix it and he was so impressive and he did it for a year and I told Chad my business friend I was like dude this guy is [ __ ] fire and I was like we just need to hire them full time to let him do whatever he wants and pain whatever he wants and it's pretty much what we've done now he works and send Fox and his output is remarkable and so I think with GM's and things like that I'd say ultimately it's like you want to find the people that blow you away but those people basically you want the people who want to run their own businesses and then two things you want to give them a challenging goal and then you wanna give him some boundaries and then leave him alone and that's the simplest and most complicated thing to do can you elaborate on that more because so I've hired a president of my company and it's pretty great because like I get just all the [ __ ] I don't want to do he likes to do so it works out well where I struggle is I still like get into it get into his way I'm like hey this sucks you need to fix it this way this way this way in this way are you doing that with your people so let me correct you they're not my people the people who you work with yeah I think that's a big difference and I know it might sound like oh it's no but I think I never see employees and ever say it's mine is there the technicality do I own more of the business yeah but I think if you want people to be leaders they have to lead and they can't ask for permission to do it you know a lot of times one of my favorite lines that I've been saying in the company lately is people ask me something I'm like who's in charge I say this a lot I probably say this at least once a day my who's in charge they're like me I'm like yeah damn Rand it's you don't [ __ ] look at me I don't know and so I think the more that you the way I've been looking at myself lately with the team as where's my excellence and where can I do me the best job of coaching and I hate when I heard that because when I've heard that I'm like what are they coaching and so let me be specific so with Dork like I've hired a team of four people to help build out my brand and to help spread the message of overcoming fear and starting businesses and they're these these people went through the gauntlet to get the job I'm clear on where they want to go I'm very clear on where they personally want to go and so my job is to help them get what they want and it's got like the gym run roam quote if I can help them get what they want I can get what I want and so I think I learned this when I got rejected from Microsoft as a job I had an internship and you know any intern you get the job guaranteed you know about that most times when you intern you get the job your dude I was like the one of the few that didn't get it it's like damn I'm an underdog man I'm still [ __ ] fighting and but I did learn something in the job interview that I never forgotten he's like here's the best way to lead I'm like tell me in best way to coach he's like you give him the football you tell him where the end zone is you say hey here's the boundaries to get to the end zone how you want to scores up to you and I think what I've learned really well over the past two years is I don't you don't want to be a seagull you know seagull theory no I'm coming we're just chirping at them yeah you come in [ __ ] and fly away I was doing a lot of seagull theory for for a few years did you coin that or is that a thing I mean that your with it your phrase yeah all right cool well I didn't I don't want to be [ __ ] on people and flying away I think it's like how do you lean in sheryl sandberg style and step in to these challenges and be because I think what I always admire is solution thinking right like am i coming and complaining and am I being more problems when I bring more solutions so in turn anyways in terms of coaching like with a man who's running a sumo especially lately I feel like more of an advisor in a very effective way and I think it's a really fine line because you don't resent man so Amy wants to do this one thing recently and I'm like do I just let him do everything and resent it like oh [ __ ] you man I totally disagree with you or do I say no Ayman do this thing you must do it my [ __ ] way it's the Noah Kagan way my dad used to say this one little kid he's like my way or the highway I was like dude I am eight years old like I don't know what you want for me and I don't think you could be either way of those I think it needs to be somewhere in the middle where I don't want to feel resent it I don't resentment towards Ayman I don't want it to be a dictator because then the the the the worst thing I think you could do is is it hiring someone is demotivate them that is probably like one of the dirtiest things you could ever do to anyone is like demote and I've done that twice to a man and Chad and they both said it to me and I felt really bad about it I felt really like I I don't want them working for me I don't want them I want them waking up thinking about it and loving it which is what you want from a lot of people in the team and so I think with Eamon ultimately it's saying like how can I like a lot of times we have goals he has boundaries budgets and then the question I ask is how can I be most helpful and so really kind of coming from that approach because at the end of the day if he's driving the results I don't give a [ __ ] how he plays the game at the end of the day as long as the scores looking good it's within the boundaries I think yes I'm a student at the moment first what's up Noah everybody for joining late I've been following your blog for a long time I remember you you wrote a bunch of [ __ ] that was like you know I walked away from a hundred million bucks or whatever it was I don't walk away I got fired but yes yeah you know my million-dollar mistake or whatever it was but I and I've pointed to a bunch of your tools and so I just want to pause for a second say one of the ways I got good at marketing is by stealing your [ __ ] and if somebody out there wants to get good at marketing especially content marketing go read the stuff about how you built mint and you know just how you built your own personal brand just go observe the meta of what you were doing look at some of the spreadsheets that you linked out that's actually pretty useful and there's like a fine line usually between like I always have this like big skepticism when somebody spends so much of their time telling me how to do something I'm like well how much of that time much of your time are you actually spending doing that thing are you even are you one of those people who you get rich teaching other people to be rich type of thing and you know the thing I liked about you and and a few others that we revote for on this podcast is know there's some people who actually have done it they've actually grown [ __ ] from scratch to scale several times they felt they probably fallen over and failed a couple times but they just like to talk they like to share and they like the feedback loop of sharing out that knowledge and those experiences and they're legit and so I would say like go back go to the archive I don't know I haven't read any of your new stuff but go read the archive the og [ __ ] because it was really good thanks broad yeah I mean I think one of the things I'm doing recently in terms of marketing I think overall you know when I fill out my fellow applications like I was filling out I'm signed up for relationship therapy start next week she's like what's my occupation and I always write engineer because that's what I always dreamed of being but I'm not I don't think I'm smart enough so I faced it this when I was filling it out I deleted that and I was like marketer marketers can always seems like a therapy starts here you wrote engineer you're not an engineer what let's don't forget to relationship so anyways I think what I've accepted it's not that I've ever been a marketer I've just I'm a promoter of greatness and I'm looking for it and I'm sharing it and I'm exploring it in myself I think the thing that I've done recently that it's a simp it's marketing 101 is with my youtube that's that's been like our big focus so I think the two three there's a few things in marketing I'll say three things that I think are simplest simplest you know on some real-world but number one how about just singular goal Facebook did it apps to Macomb has done it and I think with even Riesling with my dork world and helping people overcome fear and start businesses I'm kind of like having a bunch of goals I'm like here's our tick-tock goal here's our Instagram goal here's our email list goal here's our organic traffic oh here's this I'm like what is our most important goal and as I just even pick one for some period of time and so I think I'm coming to that realization like let's just pick YouTube and just be okay with that and guess what that'll rise all other ships so don't be ignoring the ignorant of those other ones but just focus on one second thing is that as I was doing a lot of this content recently which has gotten me really fulfilled and it's it feels good feels great is youtuber okay dork calm mostly YouTube mostly in YouTube world the second thing that's been most critical and this is really hard because everyone does says they do this or wants to do this but doesn't who who is my audience who is the audience that I really want to be helping and communicate with because on one hand I want to I want to connect with like nine-figure CEOs is in ten figure CEOs and you know I actually don't think is a lot of content of how do you go from seven to eight or eight to nine and I can share how we do it but that audience is really small and they don't really know as much help and so we've realized like our audience is dudes 25 to 40 that have tried to start a business that haven't been accessible that are afraid of failing and need a little bit of help and so I think the second part of marketing that I've gotten revisiting is Who am I really trying to talk to and what are the words so like here's some words that we didn't identify that our audience resonates with rat race freedom so I'm like really all right self-doubt so those are some of the things that I'm thinking about in the third part that we're we're thing anything that's applicable for every businesses what is your unique strategy of success like so with that we have two parts one what's our core messages that we're this is our unique like bread and butter that you will notice I wear a meat about this and he's like what did that you have so many messages just pick three so I was like all right challenges to overcome fear million dollar weekend and behind the scenes of an eight-figure company that's the three that we're gonna do and that's it and then the second part is they say that again so those three are the three what does recently let's take a step back so one what's your goal pick one goal number two who is your customer number three what is your core messages that people know you for so for me those are the three that I'm gonna be known for challenges which I always tell people do the coffee challenge which is take it ask for 10% off when you buy coffee you're gonna be afraid you're gonna learn about yourself and you're gonna grow secondly is behind the scenes of a need for your company so like how do you like that there's not a lot of people that have that experience and I can do that and the third part is how do you actually get a million dollar business or 100 you know a million dollar business start in a weekend which I’ve done many many times and I can share which is unique and then the the last part of this marketing equation that I think I’m exploring and revisiting around all these things is what is my unique strategy or what is my strategy of doing that I think where I’ve been very successful is I just do a lot of stuff and eventually something works but I think I will be even more successful slowing down being a little more thoughtful with these things and so our unique strategy lately has been do the fast stuff but on lower risk items so basically tweet and Instagram and LinkedIn post [ ] everything like throw it all out there unlimitedly and then based on what works a lot aligning to our core messages that’s what will go deeper and that’s what will write a blog post about that’s what will do an interview about that’s what we will do a YouTube video about and so is just having a higher likelihood of homeruns and how would you hi Shawn the mic like you yeah you really feel you’re almost 40 I’m sir I look and feel 32 but I’d say I’m I’m about in physicality in our society 38 and that physicality in our whatever traditions of 38 okay cool years I am 32 and I look and feel 38 so you do look 30 a bro I’m trying to go the other way so and I would love so so if you were 21 again 21 no network no name brand you’re starting up from scratch and you don’t have to go the same pathway you went I’m curious you know if you had the luxury of picking any path now that you know of so many more paths than you probably knew about when you were 21 what path would you go down honestly I think I’d copy my path which would be what so you’re 21 what do you do I’ll tell you exactly what I did I didn’t know what the [ ] to do so I wouldn’t tried a bunch of stuff out to figure out what to do I think the only I think one question is what Delta would I have chosen and I’ll tell you exactly what that was so at 21 I didn’t know I didn’t know what a BS was I got it got it from Berkley I was like Oh Bachelor so has this cool everyone kind of follows a stream right like when you graduate from college which I think less and less is becoming important and once I go get a job go to Intel go to wherever and I was like okay I guess that’s what everyone’s doing but I’ve always wanted to start my own company I didn’t know what to do and so I think the two things that I did really well when I had that day job at Intel was I use that as my investor and the two things I’d recommend is that I started a lot of businesses so if you’re like I don’t have any idea two things you can do one go to San Fox comm and start a newsletter and send an email once a week for 365 days or for 52 weeks that’s number one or number two go on YouTube take the rhein holiday challenge and post a video on YouTube for 30 days start there the second thing that I did is that I connected with people very aggressively and I asked anyone I knew for anyone that they knew that was really smart that’s how I met Tim Ferriss that’s how I met Warren Hoffman dave McClure James Hong Max Levchin ramit sethi I basically put on events I hosted lunches I organized conferences I didn’t know anyone but I wanted to bring smart people together so if you don’t know any smart people find one smart person say hey you should meet this smart person and then just go and hang out with both of them guy and growing guess what you coulda done zoom if you’re in remote country or if you don’t have any connections I think one of the ones I’ve really observed lately every person I’ve hired that’s been the most impressive has done two things they’ve offered something for free to a value that I’ve wanted and they did it without asking and those people live in the most impressive and guess what now they’re like hey I want to meet this person I want to do this thing I want to grow here and like that most of them are now working with me and so I think I would have that was something very early on I was very aggressive on meeting people and just trying to build my brand in terms of career I think the two thing one thing I did very well is I was really great about following my curiosity and things I was really excited about so I really loved Facebook and I really loved mint and I was like I’ll do whatever it takes to work there um I think the only difference I would have chosen is find someone 10 to 20 years ahead of me that I think is doing the things I would would like to do in 10 to 20 years and be obsessed or aggressive in figuring out how to make them excited to want to be a part of my life so I had one guy dug her she was my boss at Facebook and it didn’t really work out as well for as a mentorship but it’s nice because like you can say oh that’s how you do a relationship oh that’s how you do a career and it’ll shortcut it you just have to figure out the real most important thing is how do you get them to give a [ ] about you and the best way to do that is help them with whatever things they’re working on so you want to hear something crazy Shawn I don’t know if you know this but I don’t know if Noah knows it but I launched my I created my so my company which is a it’s an okay company it’s been good for me it started because Noah had a blog post about organizing conferences and I was like I what was it called it was called like how I made how I made 90k hosting a conference or something was that it Noah mm-hmm I made a coordination conferences because I I didn’t know I was gonna make money to him yeah so I saw that and I was like well I had a book club at the time and I was like well I didn’t mean I’ve been hosting these meetups but I don’t make any money from it I should like make money off this thing and so I started my come and he have made millions of dollars personally off conferences because of that blog post and more importantly or maybe not more importantly I’ve met I met actually all three people in this call and most of my friends and co-workers do because of that blog post because of that blog post I met Neville because of that blog post Neville the best man my wedding I met because of that Katrina so so what you’re describing of what you would do and how basically you described like hosting events and which is similar in the same vein as posting content I did the same thing and it made me millions of dollars and I met all my best friends that way awesome I mean I think the only other thing that I was doing at the time that I think everyone should do so number one build your brand in some way even if you’re not trying to be a personal brand I think practicing writing is a skill you can use in sales you can use a development you can use in design you can use it almost literally forever I think the connections very valuable literally probably the reason I’m a multimillionaire is because I’ve been able to meet and help people and connect people connecting and meeting but the third thing was that I was starting a lot of businesses and I think what’s beautiful is if especially earlier in your life your cost of living is sodium low and my cost of living is still damn low because I’m I haven’t grown up in some ways and I’m maturing in certain ways that it’s so low that you should take a lot of risk very early on in trying a lot of things out so I like when I was working to Intel I was doing this college consulting I did a thing called ninja card comm I was putting on these conferences that I charged for and then I was working at mint I started doing the Facebook apps like Italy’s games and I started making a lot of money but now I was working at morning I was working on weekends I was working at lunches we’re working at nights I was working I was kept going and I kept trying a lot and eventually after probably two and a half three years good you know four and three or three years later my side hustle finally became my main hustle did any of those like I have we actually have a good friend encore I don’t know if you know I’m Sean but me and no I do who did the same thing about the online he did like the Facebook apps and Facebook games and when I think of that [ ] I’m like dude that is just some scam e get-rich-quick [ ] is that an accurate assessment of what those were and because I was a little bit I was too young to be doing that [ ] in 2000 in ten or whatever became popular I wasn’t interested in the internet was that is that an accurate assessment of what those were uh I think what’s interesting is like how do you become a part I think what’s weren’t shown about the Facebook games besides whatever people spam or not spam it’s like how do you be around the tidal waves so I think where I’ve been very fortunate and lucky is that my career either I’m an ambulance chaser or I’m like a visionary or maybe a little bit of both where like I was in the Facebook game world I was in personal finance world I was in social networking world I was in SAS world with sumo I was in e-commerce world with you know some of a Shopify and lately I’m back in the content world and I think what’s been the beautiful part about that you know in an AB Summa but in the software world which has been amazing I think the amazing part about that is that it’s opened up a world where my life is more rich not rich even monetarily just like rich like fill it fulfilling because of all these really cool people I’ve gotten to connect with like I got to meet this guy Nick Nieman and I’m gonna talk with him on Friday about videos and then I’ve got to meet this guy Xavier Mercedes who lives in Austin who came over and showed me how lighting like okay look let’s switch lighting here let’s switch lighting here and I think what’s amazing is try to figure out which category is gonna either be big or which category you’re interested in and then how to interject yourself in that conversation so you’re like well no I’m not a developer I don’t have any commerce products to start guess what start a [ ] YouTube channel reviewing this products or start an Instagram account where each day you just post hey here’s my favorite ecommerce probably here’s why or start a newsletter on Sun Fox calm like hey here’s my weekly e-commerce product of the week and email that company saying hey I just promoted you this week one of the easiest things that anyone especially early on can do is flatter people Jett legitimately don’t just [ ] and because it’s obvious but just flatter hey I love your stuff that’s an easy way to open the door and then do what you can to start helping people and so I think what I’ve been lucky and intentional about what am i curious about and what’s becoming more popular and how can i connect with people that are inspiring me I would also say like sama I wouldn’t call those that that Facebook game era because there’s a whole bunch of other friends that we have that started or like kind of caught their first big wave on when Facebook platform opened up like the very first episode of podcasts Uli so he caught his big wave was he made a Facebook app called superlatives and it was about you know saying which of your friends most likely to end up in jail or goofy stuff like that or you know I know some of the Lowell apps guys listen to this and they were yeah they were you know the fastest growing company in the world at the time probably like you know oh my god you know you’d launch a product and get to ten million users in a day and that just breaks your mental model of the world and so I think two things hey you’re right that the people who go there were the type of people that sniffed out interesting spaces before they’re proven out so if you’re that type of person you’re gonna end up in a lot of those types of situations the second is you get this crash course on hyper growth and marketing in a way that’s like you can’t learn like this guy who the guy who sold tbh to Facebook recently oh yeah yeah this thing out yesterday that was like it was good first-time social app founder he’s like oh we’re gonna build a platform for intellectual conversations it’s like you know I get 23 users and five percent retention and then he’s like by the fifth year that same founders like alright let’s just have people vote on who’s hot and it’s like result 10 million users 40% retention it’s like you know it’s very true it’s like the only way to really ever get good is by putting yourself out there so when you’re saying go start a YouTube channel or somebody goes and has to build a Facebook app and you see that the apps that grow are the ones that tap into people’s core needs like they want to know about their friends they want to take quizzes about themselves and learn you know goofy personality quizzes and it’s the person on the sidelines who’s like oh all that stuff’s dumb and what they’re missing is that they don’t sort of figure out you know at the end of the day you get rewarded for giving people what they want not what you want people to want and then the second thing is that if you really want to get good at anything you got to be in like the eye of the storm and these new platforms are these areas where there’s a lot of growth a lot of action happening that’s where you sharpen your skills so you you know you might not have ever made money off the Facebook games right like you got a bunch of great users and now I made I made money well you might have made money I think the question is if he I think you need to pick are you trying to make money trying to learn because I think sometimes when you’re young you’re like well I wouldn’t make money off this person looks like well maybe there’s a lot more long-term dividends by just trying to focus on what you can learn but the work but also wouldn’t you say like I’ve seen this in my life sounds like you were in the same work it’s when you’re trying to make money that you end up learning because you’re trying to do something hard and you have to learn the hard way like what actually works and what doesn’t the first is if you just say I want to learn a lot of times people take a very sort of passive or intellectual approach to it now that’s different than saying I want to make money so I take this job at Intel that pays me a guaranteed six figures or whatever it is you may not learn the most doing that path because you’re not actually challenging yourself in the same way but what I think the two things I would highlight there is a I think there’s passion or interest or curiosity and then I think there’s opportunity and I think I’ve I’ve chased opportunities to make money which have been fleeting they’ve been profitable but fleeting and I think when you’re in your 20s you should do those frankly you should just do the things that are like hot and exciting if you think want to make money and then in your 30s you start reflecting more like wow mortality is real what’s really important and I think you’ll come back to finding how do I work on problems and things that I want created for in my own world and for you that’s what that’s helping people sort of overcome their fears to start businesses that there’s a one step removed from that no it’s exactly that it’s like I want to be on the ground level helping people overcome fears start businesses and marketing in businesses I love seeing the underdog succeed I love seen like this guy ali abdullah is a popular youtuber I love seeing companies like meat fox who got promoted appSumo and now they have a business around it or a phone wagon is a popular once a day for doing phone calls and that guy Ali he’s great he’s a I think he listens podcast but he’s a doctor right he’s a doctor youtuber or is that yeah he’s so I mean he’s so impressive he’s like you know people like I don’t have enough time this guy’s a full time professional doctor making 3d high quality YouTube videos every week and he engages an audience and he’s put you know it’s just very genuine I really enjoy can you spell his name a li a B D a al you know and I think it’s interesting is that you have to think about on the reverse of that how do you become someone that people want to meet how do you make things or do things that others want to connect with and I think we’re like oh I’ll just do stuff and hope for what happens this guy looks amazing I just love dough like I just did a quick google did oh you did is just dope I love this guy he’s just like I found him because he blogged like hey here’s some cool [ ] I found this week and our podcast was in it and so I was like okay who’s this guy who’s giving us a shout and then I checked out his YouTube channel and I was like wow this guy’s amazing well I think that’s something that even in my newsletter every week now we have an S section where we prune other people I think the more that you can go and this is one of the things it’s like stupid obvious but no one does it it’s like go help a bunch of other people and there’s a good chance that you’ll be able to connect and get a lot of things you want like well I heard a quote yesterday and I got to go in four minutes guys the quote that I heard yesterday that was like really powerful to me was uh it was like your rewards in life will be exact proportion to your contribution that’s interesting I don’t know if it’s true though because I feel like I you can definitely make money by like some [ ] Facebook like a fleeting app you know what I mean but I definitely think it’s a way to live by but can can I bring something up within the last three minutes so it four weeks ago or three weeks ago Sean told me about a book called happy body and I told I was with Neville Noah last week or two weeks ago and I was like yeah I Sean told me about this book I’m gonna buy it and Neville was like oh I have it upstairs let me go get it for you he gave it to me then he gave it and then Noah was like wait what’s this book and I think he added a buying I’ve been doing those exercises in that book I feel great have you guys been doing that so basically just got the book yesterday so I have no idea what you’re talking oh my god basically I’m what I’m realizing and is I on this podcast said I had scoliosis and I had like 30 or 40 people reach out to me say they also have scoliosis and so then I started doing this book to help fix it it’s been awesome I’ve my back feels so much better you get edges your back feel better Sean I never had back pain so I what it’s not my I wasn’t doing it for that I just like I read the philosophy and I was like oh I vibe with this like this makes sense to me I don’t feel like I’m being sold to I think this this seems like one of those like fundamental truths about the way your body works and how you should like sort of tune it and so I started to like it but I haven’t been like doing all of those actually I’ve been swimming a bunch but like I haven’t been doing those exercises in but yeah if your back hurts give it a shot you know like back pain is one of those like you know quality-of-life ruiners if you have it and so you know you just gotta try [ ] everything if you have back pain well Noah was talking about getting older and trying to feel younger and before this podcast he took his shirt off and showed me his body and that’s what we do that’s what real friends do but golly this thing has totally made a difference we aren’t getting I’m not getting pay to say this but that shit’s awesome right so no let’s ask you then what is been the the best either decision purchase change like that has lifted your quality of life on a day-to-day basis that you’ve done you know in the that comes to mind recent memory take a minute you could think about it yeah I think they’re probably about I’d say three and then I got a jump off so number one buying my Tesla I think it’s not about the Tesla but I think it’s about I think I we’re conditioned that like in materialism is evil and I think it’s more about is there ways that we could use money to make our lives better so I think that’s been really powerful for me to like wow really enjoy something versus getting the cheaper like me I like Miatas and having me out in the backyard but it’s like nice have something amazing and I wonder what else in my life gonna have that would be amazing and that I can also be amazing because I think it’s something to say about what is your stuff say about you the second thing I would think about is journaling right so I’ve been using Bare app I think one of the you guys asked for three business opportunites one of them is technology advisor there’s so much new tech new cameras new everything like I think you can go make a lot of money coaching people well but they’re bare dot app or bear app notes I really enjoyed every literally Journal five days a week and it’s been really helpful to understand myself better and learn my interests and motivations and fears and all this stuff and then that those two have definitely been powerful I’m trying to think of the third thing that’s really and I think the third thing that for me is really changed my life is observing where I’m living and how much my space affects my energy so I’ve been renting Airbnb ease and I’m gonna be moving because I’m like you know there’s something there about your space and how much it can impact you professionally and personally guys I gotta go I love you guys Thank You Sean let’s stay on but Noah let’s come back again and actually talk about some business stuff because that’s awesome I also wanna do the other thing thank you have a good day guys you too yeah thanks Sean but you want to talk about anything Noah said Sean you know a lot of it was really relevant to me because I think the things he’s talking about like the thing he spent like I don’t know 15 years doing now he’s building up this audience this like putting out great content that’s gonna help people and like distills down his wisdom like okay I learned something too active me trying to teach it to somebody else will help me learn it better I think that’s the vibe I get from him that’s what I want to do that’s what I find in most enjoyable my life anyways so personally I thought that stuff was interesting if you’re not trying to be a content creator I don’t know how useful that part will be for people but honestly these are pretty universal like just like tactics to get [ ] done and get [ ] out there and like be an action person and so yeah I like I like his message around being an action person I wish we’ve gone into ideas cuz I think he’s a kind of idea starter like he said and so maybe what we do is we have them come on and we do just ideas that we could even release this as a double episode you know sort of ideas plus interview to our sort of session well he’s coming he’s moving to San Francisco for a month I think next week he’s staying at Andrew Chen’s house and we definitely could do that I one thing here I’ll actually bring up something that he mentioned that is not related any that self-help stuff which I enjoyed but what kind of so he talked about his space and buying a nice car so I think I just spent three weeks in living in Austin I think I’m gonna give up my place in San Francisco I’m gonna spend four to eight weeks in different cities and see what happens so I’m gonna buy a car I don’t know what type of car I should buy but I’m gonna buy a nice car and I’m gonna drive all over the country that’s great and so to the listeners but I want to ask your opinion on that but also to the listeners if you want to rent my apartment I’ll give it to you for six months it’s 4k a month I live in Glen Park it’s a lovely neighborhood and it’s furnished and I have a gym here a home gym a really nice one so you message me on Twitter if you want to rent it otherwise I’m gonna give it up and I don’t want to sighs dude you should charge a premium this is rents sleeping sambars bed for 8km unthe actually you know get that good good yeah no there is no pre maybe I should [ ] I just blew my yeah - except for guys who’s willing to except for I know I I wasn’t gonna make money on it I just you just cover the expenses I Austin is amazing more people should I don’t know what sometimes I’m Michael it’s over there so a couple years ago I made a decision to do something similar where I was like I was sitting in San Francisco but I was like why am I just here all the time like life is so big the world is so big and so so I told my girlfriend at the time I was like let’s go you know now my wife but at the time we were just dating I think and I was like let’s go live in South America for the next six weeks and like I’ll just work from there but like let’s just go pick a cool city that we are not gonna live in long term and I want to move but I want to go live there and I was like wait a minute I can live there without moving and the way that San Francisco works is like an arbitrage where you can Airbnb your house or your apartment and you could make more you could literally live for free somewhere else in the world you know get free vacation so that’s what I did it went for five or six weeks we lived in Buenos Aires Argentina and and we just lived there like a local not like exact year what year was this expat but it was better than crap wasn’t a vacation it wasn’t like go sightsee take a bunch of photos and leave after five days it was like okay we’re gonna live here like what’s the coffee shop we should go to how do we get groceries and like that was just a way better experience I was like I’m gonna do this every year but then one year was like oh we’re getting married and then I had a kid now I don’t know what I’m gonna do it so wait but you did do it I did do it for one year and I plan to do it again this year now that my my child is a little bit older I think we can go do it now cuz she’s almost a year old so I’ll do it again so my logic is I’m only going to go to places I could drive to for two reasons one Corona and two my dog who I considered part of my family I he’s old and I would not want to leave him behind and I don’t know if you can bring a dog you could probably bring a dog to some European countries but like in a lot of places they have like a three-week quarantine you could get to Canada you could get to Mexico that’s cool well so I would move to Mexico City in a heartbeat no have you been there I’ve never been but everybody who I know says the same thing it’s like amazing it’s amazing like I remember I was there when Trump was just getting elected and he was talking about the wall and I was in like a hipster neighborhood and I asked my barber I go what do you think about this trunk I tell my wall he goes I don’t give a [ ] about what he says like I want he goes yeah build the wall that will keep you guys or coveted this is amazing here do not try to go to America and I was like oh man you’ve just broken all these stupid stereotypes I’ve had in my head thank you so and and so yeah they’re gonna need a wall to keep me out of Mexico City because that place is lovely it’s oh I would totally want to live there the Mexicans were awesome people I love the neighborhoods but Corona I’m nervous about Corona at the moment yeah Corona and before this it was what’s it called Zika which I can people didn’t really care about but Zika scariest [ ] especially if you’re like we were gonna have a kid we knew that and Zika like basically you could become a carrier for a year or so and pass it to your baby so that was like a scary this that’s what that killed it one year and now Corona it’s like I don’t know what I’m gonna do it but I’m gonna do it I think I’m gonna do Canada because I trust the Canadians around Corona where Vancouver Vancouver or somewhere remote who knows cuz like but like why would you do remote Canada when it’s like the same [ ] it’s like Montana is that I also don’t I also would go to Montana Manset Montana it’s cool too but you know I don’t I don’t mind that that’s a change of pace what car should I buy should I do this in a f-150 truck should I do this in a Subaru that I like put off-road tires on what should I buy I thought about at rasuluh well that doesn’t come out till 2020 water and I want to leave in August you could do you could do that as a Tesla SUV or you could do the f-150 I think that would be hilarious although that’s kind of cramped and not the not the most ideal y know an f-150 is for you can get a four-door but a cyber or Tesla would be [ ] horrible wouldn’t it for a 3,000 mile trip why cuz like wouldn’t you have to pull over every every 300 miles for an hour the superchargers are pretty fast and it goes like I think the the new ones are whatever girl like 600 miles or something crazy it’s interesting maybe I would do that yeah do it definitely do it in something that is not your usual well that’s what Noah said that inspired me I was like I’m not gonna penny pitch I’m gonna buy the nice [ ] that I want waiting for you just waiting for somebody to be like you know what’s cool buying cool [ ] that’s right that resonated with me too I’m always doing like penny pitching [ __ ] so I need to step that up you want to go over anything else I have a bunch of ideas that I added to the thing but I feel like we should just do like an episode about it like a full episode about those ideas so I think we should keep this one kind of Noah and then yeah I have a bunch but it would be like an hour okay I have a bunch too they range from interactive email to I have a bunch of ideas around privacy stuff that fascinate me a ton and Korona stuff someone’s got to create the organic label but for like is your restaurant Korona clean oh yeah like the it’s like the you know the health score but like this is difficult at around Korona hygiene yeah that’s I’m gonna bring up what are you gonna bring up okay I’m just gonna read you some of my quick notes that I had here one it’s called Scott Galloway being super wrong another one I know exactly what you’re going with that and I’m very interested another one is scams that I found interesting and I have four examples of scams that I found interesting another one is WikiLeaks for creeps because Chris D’Elia turned out to be a creep and then another one is how the 37signals guys are marketing their new thing hey calm I think it’s pretty interesting how they’re going about that and then I have a bunch of startup ideas that are around one is around baseball cards one’s around yeah we got a bunch of ideas so we have we got a lot too great I am interested in all those particularly the Scott Galloway one and the Hakam thing which I think is actually gonna be a huge business I just downloaded it have you used it no all right I’ll tell you if you didn’t like superhuman may not like this either but I just thumbs up or thumbs down I’m like 10 minutes into the onboarding but I’m also like thumbs down so far but I really like those guys so I’m like just let me try it actually I wouldn’t say I’ve given it a fair shake yet but onboarding so far I’m not sold I’m in the same boat but I understand why many people will like it right okay we should we should jet here [Music] you