Austin Rief, CEO of Morning Brew, joins Sam and Shaan to brainstorm weird but potentially lucrative business ideas — from boozy bingo raves doing $20M/year to a Traeger-competitor built on meat-smoking influencers. They also riff on the creator-brand wave, the newsletter ecosystem’s saturation problem, and Austin’s wild dinner with SBF in the Bahamas. The conversation closes on Elon, David Goggins, and the question of how hard to push as a founder.
Speakers: Sam Parr (host), Shaan Puri (host), Austin Rief (guest, CEO of Morning Brew)
Introduction — Three Amigos of Newsletters [00:00:00]
Shaan: What’s up — we got the Three Amigos of newsletters. The short story of Austin: out of college, created Morning Brew, sold it for — I think I read $75 million, so don’t correct me if I’m wrong — $75 million bucks. You still run it, hundreds of employees. Amazing. And you have a deck here of a bunch of topics.
Austin: Yeah, someone sent me this deck last week and I was going to text Sam about it. I was like, you know what, let me wait for the pod. This feels like a My First Million special. I’ve been super excited about a bunch of these.
Boozy Bingo Raves — A $20M/Year Business [00:00:40]
Austin: So, post-COVID, everyone wants to get out of the house and do exciting things that aren’t just going to a bar and drinking. I think that’s pretty boring. There are a bunch of these concepts in New York — ping pong bars, shuffleboard places — and they keep getting more and more out there.
I was tweeting about this and some guy sent me a deck. He goes, “I’ve got something interesting for you.” So if you have your computer, look up Bingo Loco.
Sam: What?
Austin: This guy sends me a deck for bingo. I’m like, what the hell is this? Bingo Loco — it’s basically a club meets bingo. Boozy bingo, performers, confetti showers, the whole thing. It looks like a Testo concert.
Sam: I didn’t know people played bingo off cruise ships. I thought bingo was either for old people or cruise ships.
Austin: He sends me the deck — I don’t want to disclose their numbers — but he goes, “Check out one of our competitors: Bonkers Bingo USA.” I’m like, there’s no way there’s a whole industry for bingo raves.
Shaan: Dude, the websites are exactly the same. They just copied each other.
Austin: Apparently these Bonkers Bingo guys, pre-COVID, were doing $20 million a year in revenue.
Sam: No way. Explain the model. Do they own the venue or do they just pop up?
Austin: I think they go in on off nights for certain places — clubs or whatever — that wouldn’t be that popular otherwise. But they bring the whole show: confetti showers, performers, everything. And here’s the genius part — they keep you there with the bingo. There’s a shuffleboard place in Brooklyn that keeps you there for hours because you’re just playing and buying drinks. That’s the hook. Same thing with bingo: performers mid-game, you stay for seven hours, you just buy drinks the whole time.
Tickets are $53 right now, and they sell out. I was trying to do more research but there’s not much information — they must be making their money off the booze.
Sam: Look at this ad: “People of Minneapolis, a bingo rave is coming to Granada Theater, March 15th. After a string of sold-out shows across America, Bingo Loco has Minneapolis in its sights.” And it’s got this TikTok video that literally looks like you’re at a rave. There’s a host, music, confetti, dance-offs, lip-sync battles, drinks.
Shaan: That sound playing on the website — that’s the business plan right there. You open a deck and it just plays that sound.
Sam: I’ve got four words for you: investors.
Austin: The margins on this must be crazy. Their costs are some performers and bingo cards. I played bingo one time on a cruise ship, and these guys are making what seems like $20 million a year off of bingo.
Shaan: We’ve got to figure out what we can copy next.
The Eating Contest Bar Concept [00:06:00]
Sam: So you make a lot of money at Morning Brew doing digital stuff — you just hit send on an email. Why on earth do you care about physical stuff? That seems way harder.
Austin: I don’t know if I’d ever actually start something in this space, but it’s so fun to see how people get hooked. It’s so easy to hook people on a newsletter — it’s content every day. But getting people to come back to play shuffleboard or bingo is so different.
I’ve got an idea — can I pitch you guys one?
Shaan: Let’s hear it.
Austin: As soon as you said the bingo thing, my brain started turning. Sam, you’ll appreciate this. You like the UFC, so you remember when Conor McGregor was on his come-up, knocking everyone out? Everyone thought the next guy was going to neutralize him — this and this and this — and then McGregor knocks them out. A UFC analyst broke it down and said, “I’m watching Conor. He does all this spinning stuff. I think it’s all smoke and mirrors. Everything he’s throwing, he doesn’t care what happens with it — he’s just trying to land the left hand.”
To me, that’s the same business model as the bingo. It’s like: oh, you heard about that bingo business? No, no, no — you heard about that alcohol business that uses bingo to get you to the bar.
Sam: Right.
Austin: So here’s my idea. I’ve always wanted to enter one of those eating contests — those places where it’s like “if you can eat this pizza it’s free.” I’ve never done it, but the problem is you have to pay $75 for the huge pizza up front. I would love if someone turned this into a contest: who can eat the most hot dogs, who can finish the biggest pizza fastest. You enter, you bring friends to be your cheering section — they’re all rowdy and drinking. It’s basically free to play because the pizza isn’t that expensive, but you fill the bar with people who are in the mood to go extreme. It’s like sports meets binge eating.
Sam: And the best thing that goes with both of those? Binge drinking.
Austin: The only thing you need to add is a little gambling.
Sam: Beautiful. Beautiful. Yes — that’s Vegas meets a party.
Shaan: Austin, I don’t know if you’ve been doing improv, but that was a beautiful “Yes, and.”
Sam: I follow this guy on YouTube called Beer Meets Food. He’s got 3.6 million subscribers. He goes to small restaurants in England that have those “eat it free” challenges. He eats roughly 10,000 calories in each challenge and nails all of them. One time he ate five pounds of chocolate. It’s the craziest channel I’ve ever seen — one of the few I’m actually subscribed to.
This guy needs to launch your food challenge gambling business. And there are a bunch of these Instagrammers you could do it with. There’s this guy called Raw Meat Experiment — read his bio, Shaan.
Shaan: “Eating raw meat every day until I die from bacteria.” Line two: “Seeing if I live for five days or 500 years.”
Sam: He’ll just buy a chunk of ground beef outside Whole Foods and eat it raw. Or he’ll get a raw chicken breast and chew it like a Slim Jim. There are so many food mukbang variations on Instagram and YouTube — you could get these guys to be guest hosts and do pop-ups.
Museum Hacks and Scavenger Hunt Economics [00:11:30]
Shaan: When I moved to San Francisco, I worked part-time for this guy Joe Garvey. He had a company called CLASH — California League of Adventure Scavenger Hunts or something. CLASH SF. He was making seven figures a year hosting these citywide scavenger hunts. It was so fun, and I got to see some of the economics of these in-person things. I was shocked at how great some of them could be.
Sam: Did you know Nick Gray had a business called Museum Hack, Shaan? He eventually sold it for many millions in revenue.
Shaan: Yeah. It started as guerrilla — he’d go to the Met in New York. It’s a free museum, but people would pay $50 and he’d give them a tour and explain the art. Eventually he hired theater kids to lead tours, set up in museums throughout the country, and eventually got partnerships after they kicked him out a bunch of times. He described it as “Renegade Museum tours.” I just thought that was a great way to pitch it.
Sam: That word — “renegade” — is underutilized and underhyped. I’m going to try to bring it back.
Shaan: Time Out made him the number one thing to do in New York, and I think that’s what blew him up. Then he went B2B because that’s where the money is. You sell a consumer $50. You sell a Morning Brew $20 grand and the HR team just approves it.
The Creator Economy Check-In — Has Anything Changed? [00:14:00]
Sam: Austin, last time you were here, I think all three of us were like, “The creator economy is going to fizzle out.” Has your opinion changed? I know some things have happened in the media world that got you excited — tell me about that.
Austin: Last time we talked, we were all like, “What’s the next Milk Road for X?” We were saying, “Oh, AI is popping off — let’s launch the Milk Road for AI.”
Shaan: Milk Road for X. You’re speaking to me perfectly. You called me skinny and now you say Milk Road for X instead of “Morning Brew or Hustle for X” — and I’m eating it up. This guy is a charmer.
Austin: Just trying to hype you up, Shaan. But look — there were 10,000 beehiiv newsletters growing off the back of “Milk Road for AI.” The problem is the content isn’t very good. They’ve all grown with crazy growth hacks, which is great for the newsletter ecosystem as a whole, but it’s not sustainable.
There’s no alpha left in the newsletter game. Everyone talks about everything. Beehiiv did for newsletters what Shopify did for e-commerce. E-commerce started and people got super pumped — investors poured in. “Shopify makes it so easy to start an e-com store!” The problem was they made it too easy, so everyone started an e-com store, and you have to be either the absolute best or just accept that it’s going to be a fine business. Everyone’s pouring in thinking: “If I can just create the Milk Road for marketing, the Milk Road for AI, I’m gonna have a Milk Road-like exit.”
I just don’t think these newsletters have a ton of value.
What Would Austin Do If Not Media? [00:17:00]
Sam: Let me ask you a different question. You’ve spent — what, seven, eight years in media?
Austin: Coming up on ten.
Sam: Oh my God. A third of your life. I hope you don’t spend the next two-thirds in media too. If you were going to do something different, media off the table — what would you do next?
Austin: I think there are two types of businesses I love. One is B2B — we’ve all built businesses where the LTVs are like $15, and that’s pretty tough. I love selling significant enterprise products. The other is building into passion audiences. That’s where I’d actually go.
We went to Camp My First Million last year and met that guy — I think his name is Al — who’s building for quilters. Al Don. He does hundreds of millions in revenue. I want to find a niche like that.
The one I’ve been spending a lot of time researching — I almost did something here and ended up not — is meat smoking. I am obsessed with my Traeger.
Shaan: Dude, how do you use a Traeger? You live in an apartment in New York.
Austin: On my balcony. I live on the first floor so I have access to the common space.
Shaan: What even is meat smoking?
Austin: It’s cooking meat at like 200 degrees for 10 to 12 hours. Like barbecuing but with smoke instead of fire, over ten hours. All my Jewish friends are into this because you grow up eating brisket — you have to wait ten hours. You buy special wood chips for it. It’s a pain in the ass. I have friends who wake up at 4 in the morning to get their brisket started.
The Meat Smoking Niche — Building the Traeger Competitor [00:19:30]
Sam: Okay but I’m a believer — anything that’s a huge pain in the ass that people still do has a ton of money in it.
Austin: Exactly. There are a couple big brands in smoking: Traeger, Green Egg. And the thing is, it’s not like electricity — you don’t just turn it on and it goes. It’s wood pellets. You’re literally burning wood pellets, and these pellets — Traeger gets you to buy the $1,500 smoker and then you’re spending $50 every time you smoke because you’re just burning through pellets.
There are tons of meat smoking influencers out there — guys in Nashville, guys in Texas — with tens of millions of views. “How to smoke a ribeye, how to smoke a brisket.” They’re all kind of sophisticated, they have these rubs. But none of them are taking big swings. None of them are building the Traeger competitor.
I want to build the Traeger or the Green Egg competitor. Sell the $1,500 product, sell the $50 to $100 a month pellet subscription, and build the next Traeger, which I think is a multi-billion dollar brand.
Sam: I’m fired up. I’m smoked up right now. Why did you not do this? This sounds awesome.
Austin: I’ve been talking to some meat smoking influencers. I’m working on it. The meat smoking boys — that’s what we’ll call them. What I like about these guys is they’re so much more down-to-earth than New York City influencers. They’re not the TikTok 22-year-olds. These are people who just love life and want to smoke meats, and if they can sell a grill, even better.
Shaan: Have you heard of Jonathan Moses Katz? He’s a woodworking creator who did exactly what you’re describing, but in the woodworking niche. He was a big woodworking creator, built tools for his audience — and his site gets incredible traffic. What he started to do was partner with every other woodworking creator and said, “Hey, I’m crushing it selling widgets to my audience. Let me make you your own custom thing in your niche, and we’ll build a collective store of all our products. If you sell one on behalf of Sam, I’ll kick him an affiliate.” It’s called KM Tools. I’d bet he does $50 million a year.
Sam: Dude, this is a great idea. This is why we started this podcast — for somebody to come on and say, “Yeah, I built a $100 million media company, but guys — meat smoking is where it’s at.”
Austin: Here’s the distribution model. Partner with these influencers, build an affiliate network, and create this competitor. We’re going to call it the Meat Smoking Jerky Boys.
Sam: No, dude — you know that cigarette brand we love the branding of? Oklahoma Smokes?
Shaan: Yeah.
Sam: You kind of gotta do something like Oklahoma Smokes — or like a Nashville Smokes Club. Brought to you by the Jerky Boys.
Austin: I have not seen this branding. This is awesome. We’re stealing this. We’re buying the company just to steal the branding.
Shaan: Just Google some of the most popular towns in Louisiana and pick a name that stands out. “Tupelo Meats” or something. I’m just hoping a big meat smoking influencer creator listens to this podcast and DMs me on Twitter: “I’m ready to ride.”
Sam: Baton Rouge Smoke Company. God, there are just so many possibilities.
Austin: I didn’t even know what meat smoking was when we started this conversation, but I’m in. Hold a little check space for me. I’m the opposite of an expert adviser here — I’m going to be your in-house beginner. That’s how I’ll add value.
Shaan: Even Zuck is into it. Remember the whole Zuck meme about smoking meats?
Creator Brands — The Logan Paul Prime Model [00:25:00]
Sam: Austin, you were talking about how you want to partner with creators because once you attach with some of those folks, you kill it. Is that what you’d do for the meat smoking thing?
Austin: Yeah, I think partnering with creators is still the future. We’re scratching the surface. There’s Feastables, there’s Prime — everyone talks about those and it’s been played out in terms of conversation, but ultimately I still think you’re going to walk into a liquor store or Target and every brand is going to have a face and an association. Because why wouldn’t it? If there’s a brand that could have nobody attached to it or a brand that could have someone with built-in distribution — you guys or someone more widely known — why wouldn’t you take that?
The real opportunity is in the niches.
Shaan: How big do we have to be to make a dent at Target? Like, what are we even going to sell? MFM slinkies? I don’t know.
Austin: Barstool has the Barstool Razor, they’re in stores. They have frozen pizza. They have a bunch of stuff.
Sam: How famous do you have to be to get sales at Target?
Austin: Not that famous if you pick the right product. We’re past the point where just fame is going to drive sales. You actually need a great product. Danny Austin — you had her on the pod. Danny’s big, but she’s not as big as some other creators, and her brand is worth way more than almost every brand out there because it’s actually a product with a real need. High margin. Repeat purchase. A visual before and after. And a true story around the creator’s actual need versus just a nice-to-have.
Sam: Oh — we could have done hims. The TRT subscriptions. That should have been our move.
Shaan: Should have said hims. That would have been our move.
Austin: I think the creator brand wave is going to be like the newsletter wave. Every creator is going to say “I need to do a creator brand,” every former dropshipper is going to say “I just need a creator and then we win” — and they’re all going to wash out. There’ll obviously be a few winners.
The difference is what Logan Paul did with Prime is completely different from what most creators do. He had a huge audience, took it everywhere, built the brand brick by brick — WrestleMania, he’s smashing someone over the head with a giant bottle of Prime. And it was him and KSI — two huge creators, two big markets, going into an industry together. Mr. Beast with Feastables isn’t just “hey guys, go buy my chocolate.” He’s literally rebuilding Willy Wonka’s chocolate factory for three million dollars as the launch event. The content is the product.
Those worked because the creators really were actual entrepreneurs and partnered with world-class operators. The guy who built Conor McGregor’s whiskey brand had already built two other multi-billion dollar alcohol brands. Connor was mega famous and went all the way on the promotion. Same thing with Prime — the guys behind it are monsters who built multiple beverage brands in their 20s.
Sam: And Austin, we’re all doing it in the B2B space. We have one-hundredth the audience of a Mr. Beast or Logan Paul, so we need to sell products that are a hundred times more expensive than a bottle of Prime. That’s why HubSpot did it with us.
Shaan: Austin, you did a thread on “the new celebrity endorsement” — it’s like, dude, people have been doing celebrity endorsements forever. The difference is that now the celebrities own equity.
Sam: That’s good for your brand — to help you sell a product worth thousands of dollars. Not MFM nail clippers at Target.
Austin: Sam, you and Hampton — that’s the perfect example. An $8,000 product that makes a lot of sense for your brand and your audience. That’s a home run.
Tony Robbins Prep Story [00:33:00]
Sam: Speaking of Tony Robbins — Austin, you know this episode is coming out right after the Tony Robbins episode.
Austin: That’s good for Austin? I mean, maybe. But I meant to start with this — maybe we’ll cut it and put it at the beginning. When you start a Hampton session with your group, you air grievances, right? Can you have a real dialogue? Is there anything you need to get out in the open?
Well, I do need to tell everyone: Monday, Shaan and I were supposed to talk at one o’clock. One o’clock comes — no call. Two o’clock — no call. I text Shaan, “What’s going on?” He texts back: “Thanks for the call.” I text again: “Shaan, what the heck?” He goes, “I’m prepping for the big guest.”
Shaan: By the way, that big guest was actually Tony Robbins, not you.
Austin: Yeah, so basically Tony’s team reached out, and Shaan — I know you’re a huge fan. How was it?
Shaan: Intense is the word. When I tell you I prepared — not only did I spend every waking moment for two days preparing, which I never do for a podcast, I’ve also kind of been preparing for ten years. I follow the guy. I’ve been to three of his seminars.
There’s a curse of knowing too much going in. Meeting your heroes — you want it to go so well that you’re squeezing too hard, you know? Don’t squeeze the bar of soap too hard or it just squirts out.
So we’re getting ready for the pod. Me and Ari are sitting there, his team is swarming the computer setup. “Tony will be here shortly.” I’m twenty minutes early — which never happens, I’m chronically late. And I’m just sitting there for ten minutes feeling myself going cold. I’m like, I can’t just sit here. I’ve got to get in state.
So I get up and start doing my Tony Robbins power moves — basically doing this dorky mid-back stretch to unlock my chakras, trying to get some energy flowing. And then I just hear, “Hello.” And it’s Tony Robbins.
Austin: He just walks in to find Shaan doing Tony Robbins stretches in the corner.
Shaan: I rush back to my desk like, “Oh hey, yeah, sorry…” He’s just staring at my empty chair.
Austin: Even better — Shaan is off camera saying “I’m the man, I’m the man!”
Shaan: I’m visualizing. But it went well. Tears were shed — and they weren’t mine. That’s all I’ll say.
It’s really hard to interview somebody who is a stage performer. He’s on a next level. You poke the thing and an avalanche comes out. Were you ever just — okay, Tony, shut up, let me ask my next question? We only had 45 minutes. This guy does nine-hour-a-day seminars for four days straight, and I’ve got 45 minutes.
I do think people are going to like that episode, though. The rapport — the style of stuff we talk about is very on point for this podcast.
The SBF Dinner Story [00:38:30]
Sam: Can I ask you a different story about a big name? A couple years ago you texted us that you were going to dinner with SBF. At the time, SBF was the next Mark Zuckerberg — multi-billionaire, fastest growing private startup. And you were like, “Can’t talk, putting away my phone, going to dinner with SBF.” Two years later — can you tell us the story?
Austin: He’s in jail for a long time, so I don’t think he’ll do anything. I don’t think I’ve told this story publicly. One liner for anyone who doesn’t know: Sam Bankman-Fried — the Bernie Madoff of crypto. Thirty-one-year-old worth $32 billion, and it all came crashing down. Now he’s in prison for fraud.
Sam: Great, thanks for the background.
Austin: So a friend of mine, an investor at a big VC, had invested in FTX. This is probably 2021 — SBF was SBF, at the height of his power. My friend’s like, “Trips to the Bahamas, it’s for his birthday, I’m in.”
I thought I knew where the rich and famous lived. I’d stayed at the Ritz Carlton and all these nice places. I was wrong. The place is called The Albany, in the Bahamas. Tiger Woods has ownership of it. Justin Bieber lives there. Will Smith lives there. 250-foot yachts everywhere.
Shaan: And you stayed…
Austin: They put us in the “guest boat” — not a boat, a guest house. We show up to the penthouse. $25 million apartment. And the first thing I observe: there are 50 pairs of shoes laying everywhere. Crappy Nikes. Just all over the floor.
Sam: This dude’s worth $30 billion?
Austin: My friend’s like, “Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you — the entire exec team lives together in this apartment.” And I’m like, oh boy. Now we know from hindsight that there was… weird stuff going on.
Sam: Did you get the orgy vibe?
Austin: You could smell it — I’m kidding. But there was a weird alpha dynamic. Sam was clearly the alpha in the room. Super nerdy, super techy — but anyone who said anything looked to Sam to make sure he approved. He was clearly the man.
Second thing: you look to the left, and Sam is in the kitchen cooking food. His back is to us, he starts having a full conversation without ever making eye contact. And the first thing he ever says to me and my friend is: “So, what do you think about Indian crypto changes?”
Sam: What?
Austin: I’m like, what is going on? I probably said four words the entire dinner. They were speaking a different language — all crypto stuff.
So Sam cooks us dinner. Everyone got one Beyond Sausage and two Brussels sprouts. That was the meal. For everyone.
Sam: The vegan stuff is true.
Austin: We sit down. $25 million apartment, but there’s hardware everywhere, cables everywhere. PS3s and Xboxes. Like post-apocalyptic. And the craziest thing about the dinner was that Sam was a genius when it came to things that benefited FTX and crypto. Tom Brady was sponsored by FTX — Sam could tell you Brady’s entire stat line, everything about him. But I don’t think he knew what a first down was. Same with politicians: he could name every Senator, every Supreme Court Justice, tell you their exact stance on crypto. I don’t think he could tell you a single other thing about any of them.
Shaan: Shaan and I hung out with someone like that once — best in the world at what they do. I’ll just say it: Mr. Beast. We were hanging out and I mentioned a TV show I thought everyone knew, and he had no idea. I asked some pop culture stuff — nothing. He’s like, “Sorry, I just pay attention to YouTube. That’s all I do.”
Sam: There’s a great Conor McGregor BBC interview. Before the interview they’re shooting the breeze, someone asks about a famous soccer game. He just laughs and goes, “I have no idea what you’re talking about.” Then he says, “I don’t know what’s happening in the news, I don’t know what’s happening in the world. I’ve lost my mind to the game and I only know about my thing.” That’s common for people at the top 0.01% of what they’re trying to become.
Austin: Did you get fraud vibes when you were there, or were you also enamored?
Austin: I was completely enamored. We took a cab to the Albany and the driver was like, “Oh, you’re going to where FTX is headquartered? You’re going to see Sam?” And he was like, “Oh my God.” One of the security guards said, “You think the celebrities are famous around here? The celebrities want to meet Sam. Sam doesn’t want to meet them.”
Now in hindsight, I feel like an idiot. There were so many red flags. The effective altruism thing — “make as much money as you can to give it away.” And people were like, “Yeah, Sam lives a really low-key lifestyle.” And I’m thinking, this guy lives in a $25 million apartment. The nicest apartment I’ve ever been in.
Sam: “He only lives there because it’s the most convenient to the FTX office.”
Austin: He lives in an orgy compound, and he’s living a low-key life. We drove by the FTX office and there were 75 nice neighborhoods between here and the office. That doesn’t add up.
Shaan: There were videos going around: “Sam still drives his ‘93 Corolla.” He just shrugs — “Why do I need a better car?” — while he’s got a full Olympic-sized swimming pool on his balcony.
Austin: I wish I’d been looking for this stuff at the time. I was just so enamored. I’m sure there was crazy stuff everywhere.
Sam: You also hung out with Kid Rock at some point.
Austin: The Kid Rock thing was awesome. He told us he’s the only person to play at both Obama’s and Trump’s inaugurations. He knows both of them. He’s the only one who can heal this country.
He lives on a compound — an actual compound. He has a full bar, like a whole pub, on the compound. And when I was there it was being constructed, but he lives in a house that is a replica of the White House. You walk up and you’re like, “Oh my God.” It actually looks exactly like the White House.
Elon Musk, David Goggins, and the Extreme Founder [00:52:00]
Shaan: You guys read the Elon book?
Austin: I just finished it over the holidays. It gives you a different lens into Elon Musk — the full spectrum of who he is. People try to draw inspiration from Elon and you can, in little bits and pieces. But my big takeaway was: Elon is hardcore. That’s the one word that defines him. He’s extreme in every direction. He treats people who work with him very harshly. He has a complicated relationship with his family.
My takeaway was: Elon is a one-in-ten-billion person. All these people are inspired by him — great. But don’t try to copy him. This guy has no regard for anything except the mission. He doesn’t sleep, doesn’t vacation, has crazy relationships. Everything is as extreme as it can possibly be.
Sam: I don’t want my blood pressure to rise reading it. Because on one hand I hear about him and I’m like, “I’m soft, I should step it up.” On the other hand I’m like, “His life sucks. I do not want that.”
Shaan: You can’t be 70% Elon and be successful. Have I told you my David Goggins point? You only want to be David Goggins for one hour a day. That’s the whole trick. He’s inspiring and mentally tough and there’s something to learn there, but you don’t want to subscribe to the David Goggins lifestyle. Just shift into David Goggins gear for one hour when you’re working out, then never touch it again.
Did you see the post — David Goggins is engaged?
Sam: Sounds like an Onion article.
Shaan: There’s this video she posted. He just finished surgery on his leg — they broke it and fixed it for some reason — and he comes home two weeks post-surgery and goes, “I want to run 100 miles tonight.” So she’s following him in the car, hour after hour, it’s 3am, and he’s almost done. He just looked at her and said, “I’ve got to go do a Ruck tonight.”
Sam: It’s running or walking with a heavy backpack.
Shaan: So he does a hundred-mile weighted run and she’s filming the whole thing. That’s when you’re like, “This is not the way to live.” So the trick with David Goggins: one hour a day. The trick with Elon Musk: maybe 15% of the time, when you’re establishing vision, when you’re demoing your product the way he demos Tesla — people pay money just to pre-order and wait — or when you’re doing a sprint and you need everyone to know, “If you’re in, you’re in, hardcore.”
Sam: But Austin, I was always on eggshells with employees. “Hey, we’ve got to do this tomorrow — but if that’s too much, Tuesday’s okay. Is that okay with you?” I never know where the boundaries are. Whereas Mr. Beast, David Goggins, Elon — they have basically no sense of boundaries. They’re on their mission and you’re either all in or you’re out.
Austin: Yeah. The thing to steal in particular is that vision. Elon starts with the vision and then builds the business model — that’s really impressive. The way he treats people, some of the things he says — that could be in the 85% you leave out.
Sam: Same with SBF, actually. A friend of mine read the SBF book and said, “I’m supposed to hate this guy because of everything that happened, but there were a few things I actually respected.” Like — set aside the fraud, just say he was using the company’s money or his own money — the fact that he had $100 million and felt no fear toward losing it and no attachment to it. He’s like, “Great, let’s use it to pay off Steph Curry and Tom Brady, cut absurd deals, pull these things off.”
There’s that email that leaked where he’s like: “I went to dinner with this guy in LA. He’s the most connected person I’ve ever seen. At this dinner: Nancy Pelosi, Leonardo DiCaprio, twelve other people. We need to give this guy $200 million to invest in his fund. I think he’ll open all the doors for us. Wire the money immediately.” Just the ability to throw your weight around.
Andrew Wilkinson does this. When he wants something — a relationship or a business he wants to buy — he really throws his weight around. Sam, when he wanted to buy The Hustle, he flew you private up to his house.
Sam: He’s like, “I want to buy this company, let’s talk.” I was like, “We could talk on the phone.” He’s like, “No, let’s meet in person.” I’m like, “I don’t love flying. Canada’s far.” He goes, “My jet will be there tomorrow.”
Shaan: I’m the same way as you — I appreciate it and I’m fearful of it. When I see it, I get inspired. For me it’s a conviction play. Like when Buffett sees an opportunity, he’s not dipping his toe in the water. Bank of America is going under — he buys a ton of preferred debt. That’s a can’t-lose bet. He’s sitting on billions and he’s going to own 10% of Bank of America.
Austin: Dude, your chips-on-the-table moment right now is just praying Bill Ackman doesn’t crush your company. Morning Brew — taking your chips and hiding under the table.
Sam: Actually, speaking of throwing your weight around — that’s exactly what Ackman’s doing right now. Morning Brew is owned by Business Insider, which is owned by Axel Springer, and Bill Ackman is at war with BI and Axel Springer. Austin, what’s your official response?
Austin: I’ll save my response for the private group chats.
But I think the real question is: am I throwing my weight around enough? How much gas versus how much brake am I applying to the things I want in my life? That’s one of my themes for this year.
Naval has this idea where he talks about spending. He’ll message me privately and ask, “What interests you?” I said I have a cleaning lady who comes every two weeks, and I wish she came every day. He goes, “I’m going to challenge you to figure out what makes you happy and spend ten times what you’re spending now.” For him, it’s travel — he’ll spend $50,000 on a trip because he knows that’s what makes him happy. He challenged me to do the same for services, things like cleaning. Spend ten times more.
Sam: Also, Austin — you made a bunch of money selling Morning Brew. Did you use it in any way that was interesting or meaningfully improved your quality of life?
Austin: The big thing for me is travel. I love staying at nice hotels on vacation. That’s my money dial.
Aman Hotels and Money Dials [01:03:00]
Sam: You were texting about the Aman hotels. What’s the deal? Do I need to know about this?
Austin: So Aman is basically the standard for customer service for any business. There are maybe 60 or 70 of them. The cheapest is probably $1,500 a night. Regularly $2,500. There’s one out west — I think it’s in Arizona — that’s around $6,000 a night, and people go and say it was worth it.
A good way to think about any business: what’s the Aman version of X?
Shaan: Have you been?
Austin: I’ve never stayed at one. That’s the goal for my honeymoon. But when I travel I always try to get a drink or stop by them. They’re typically not in the heart of a city — they’re on the outskirts, a destination. You have to really want to go to an Aman to get to an Aman. They’ve grown and now have one in New York City, so maybe that’s less true now. But they want you to really be in the Aman essence when you’re there.
Sam: Give me an example of the customer service.
Austin: The highest quality food, the best bedding and mattress, every little detail is perfect. The toilet paper is folded the right direction. If nice hotels aren’t your money dial, you’re going to be like “I just wasted five grand a night.” But if luxury and having every detail taken care of is what you get joy out of, you’re going to love it.
Shaan: I get why you like it. Is there a mini fridge though? Because I just need a Kit Kat and animal crackers at midnight and I’m good. That’s my customer service requirement.
Sam: And a Keurig machine. Just give me that and we’re golden.
Shaan: Austin, thanks for coming on, man. This was good.
Austin: Yeah, this was awesome.
Sam: All right, that’s the pod.