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Kind: captions Language: en uh Sam what’s up man I got uh I got some good news for you great click that link I just put in there it’s uh oh it’s your lucky day bro here’s an article in the financial times called the alpha of ugliness and it turns out that being ugly outperforms they analyzed a bunch of investors and the investors who were conventionally ugly uh outperformed by 2% I think so uh yeah I I saw that but here’s the problem I’m I’m a f I’m 5’10 I’m not ugly enough to be made fun of but I’m definitely not hot enough to be 6 foot to get any advantages yeah so damn it that’s the issue should I get uglier or hotter I guess [Music] uglier yeah when I was in second grade I really liked this one girl and I was like um hey uh I want to ask that girl to the whatever the dance or something like we had like some party in like third grade and um now that I think about it that’s kind of young to be asking girls but that’s what happened so I went up to her or no my friend went up to her and he was like hey Sean likes you and she goes um Sean’s ugly and then that was third grade and then I’m still reeling I’m 3 I’m 35 now I’m hoping at 36 I’m I’m off that but uh you know still recovering I would say our software is the wor worst have you heard of HubSpot see most crms are a cobble together mess but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous I think I love our new CRM our software is the best HubSpot grow better so Anan the founder of CB insights tweeted this out I think a week ago and he does really in-depth tweets where he looks at data and stuff and he had this one thing where he said um he said uh I found this data that talks about how good you look and your returns and a lot of people think that the hotter you are or the taller you are the better returns you’re going to have that which which makes sense taller people get more get better treatment and he said no it’s the opposite there’s a uh correlation between attractiveness or I guess an opposite correlation so between attractiveness and rate of returns for investment managers well yeah because the the investment doesn’t know how tall you are you know tall guy probably could raise more money but not necessarily make more money um well and it’s uh I guess is it the uglier you are the harder you’ve had to work yeah that’s I’ve been clinging to that’s the story I’ve been telling myself so speaking of hedge funds or Investments let me ask you a question okay do you know anything about hedge funds not a lot okay they what you need to know is they work really hard and it’s a really intense lifestyle so you understand that I’m sure would if I paid you $10 million a year if you could earn $10 million a year would you be a hedge fund would you work at a hedge fund as like a like a portfolio manager would you live that lifestyle for $10 million I don’t know the lifestyle but probably not cuz I really like my lifestyle so I would not trade it for a worse lifestyle if that makes sense but like let’s assume let’s assume uh 10 years ago would I have made that trade yeah I would have made that trade and that’s what I think they do I think they they make that trade earlier in their career and then they get that’s what they do so I’m reading this book about Steve Cohen do you know who Steve Cohen is he owns uh sports teams and he’s like one of the he’s one of the most successful hedg fun guys but and I think billions is based off of him right uh roughly yeah so Bobby oxar is off him but basically Steve Cohen he started as a uh B he’s basically a day trader a glorified day trader that’s how he made his first couple billion worked at like billion dollars day trading yeah that that that’s not the best explanation but but but but basically uh it’s day trading on steroids so it’s uh kind of like calling like a bodybuilder like oh you like to exercise but it was basically his own money or he was at a a it started with his own so well he started as a he started as a kid 23 years old he worked at like something that looked like The Wolf Wall Street style setup where it was like a dingy in the beginning of that Wolf Wall Street he’s selling Petty stocks at like a like a garage basically in a small like 30% operation he kind of started at a thing like this the story is and and they interviewed his boss in this book they’re like dude on this first day of work he came and he goes if I was you I would do that and make that trade and the the boss was like who do you think you are telling me what to do on your first day of work and Steve was like that’s I’m telling you that’s going to work within a few hours it made eight grain of profit after two years he was making 100 Grand in profit a day for the firm and it was like a day it was like a day trading firm where they basically in the 80s it wasn’t quite popular to do day trading it was more so uh hold something for a long period of time picks based off the businesses he’s so good because he’s a savant because he figures out some Arbitrage and he’s exploiting that why is he making 100 grand a day so at first it was he claimed it was intuition which I believe he claims that he’s a bad at math which is uncommon for a lot of these folks but he claims he’s bad at math and it was intuition he said I would just look at the ticker it was at the time it was a a physical ticker that would be on the board and it would like change stock prices and he was like I would just find these weird arbitrages and it was he he he would short stocks based off of like this just changed by $1 I think it should be 50 c higher I’m going to buy it and sell it within a few hours it’s incredibly challenging reading this book to figure out exactly how he did this that’s so frustrating as an answer by the way it’s like you know that’s like my idiot friend from college who’s looking at the roulette wheel and it’s like guys I’m it’s got to be red it’s been black four times in a row and I’m like that’s not how this works um that’s very frustrating if that’s the answer of how this guy became you know a billionaire is good old gut I just don’t I don’t know I don’t believe that that sounds crazy to me it’s very frustrating TW TI like Rainman and just figured out which direction things are going to go well I tweeted out about it and Martin scarelli who worked in the HED fund world has been replying to my tweets and he’s like yeah it does seem like intuition based more so intuition-based like when you’re playing blackjack or poker you know roughly the odds as you’re going really quickly the problem with Steve Cohen is he’s never done a wonderful job of explaining exactly how he did it however at the age of like 32 he started his own fund he had $10 million of his own money and that’s what he started uh sa that’s what the his firm was called and he hired um a bunch of people and he gave them like crazy commissions where you could earn 30% of the profits you made the firm and by the time he’s like 42 sa which is mostly his own money accumulates like 10 billion however after the first like $600 million then it’s all not all but it’s a lot of insider trading and they would do crazy [ ] like they would fly to conferences take the conference speaker out to dinner at a at a conference where they’re like talking about like different drugs that might become uh legal based off of different trials that the’re current L running they basically bribe these guys to give them information like this trial’s going really bad trouble for this or um or no cuz he’s I’m looking it up Steve Cohen net worth 19.8 billion and appears to be a free man so yeah so here’s the here’s here’s the rub he uh does get in trouble for it but after he’s worth already probably five or 10 billion dollars he’s they do it very quietly he’s been very quiet for years building accumulating about a billion dollars he do later huh then he gets trouble and you want to know something he completely gets away with it he gets convicted and he gets in trouble sa has to shut down technically although now it just becomes his family office a year later he starts another firm called 72 the guy he did not get in trouble at all clearly broke the law many many many many times however as I’m reading this book I’m reading about the the lifestyle of what it’s like it is 7 days a week 12 hours a day more than 12 hours a day before you do the lifestyle thing I want to read Martin’s reply to you so you were like like this guy Steve Cohen fascinating what I don’t understand you know he’s basically became worth over $100 million as a day trader on steroids it says he followed his intuition as bad as math what does that mean so great question so here’s what Martin says I studied Cohen for a good part of my life and I think these were the key components as a Trader he has an unbelievably capacious memory for stocks capacious wow that’s a word I love that I don’t I don’t quite know what it means but you’ll see me sprinkling that around for for the next three days all right I guess it means good we’ll just say good good or spacious one of the two yeah so for any given stock he literally knows what is the situation and controversy this is a little bit like how it impresses some people that Kramer knows most of the stocks he’s asked about they are similar Animals number two he is unwavering on discipline and portfolio firm structure with leverage and a diversified group of portfolio managers the net result for investors is incredible other firms like Millennium and sville have figured this out too con is also a very smart business person which most Traders are not not he can attract impressive talent because he speaks the Traders language whereas other similar firms don’t have active Traders managing the company I think it’s a competitive Advantage the style has been somewhat effectively replicated by his competitors however and the Arbitrage has all but vanished in US public equities yeah so that’s still not the best answer right that’s a very um that answer doesn’t feel good like it’s not giving me exactly what I wanted he he said one more thing that I think is great you were like it’s crazy that he was getting you know 30 to 50% Annual fees he goes remember Mar goes remember that’s 50% net of fees so his fees were 50% so basically he had 10 years we made about 100% a year it’s arguably the strongest stretch of high returns ever done similar to Renaissance Capital it’s amazing and this guy he’s he’s sneaky he’s a sneaky guy he’s he does a he does a lot of bad things in in this book like okay tell me some of them for example um you know GLG which we’ve talked about constantly expert NK he was Yeah so basically what GLG does I’m a consultant technically every once in a while on GLG so uh a bank is going to take a company public they let’s say it’s um HubSpot for example they want to know all about email marketing they find email marketers and ask them about which software they use they want to learn about if it’s a good company or not whatever well seep Cen was glg’s biggest customer he spent millions of dollars a year he would become friends with the quote consultants get their information take them out to dinner and be like look just tell me the truth and I’ll put you on salary tell me like for example if you’re uh if you’re on this board if you work for the government and you’re getting ready to approve a drug just tell me if it’s going to get approved tell me how the trials are going this napkin I’ve written the number three and as you keep talking I will start adding zeros go yeah I mean it was basic like that like that and then they get the information from the guys and they just they basically like they they Honeypot these guys where they become friends with them ask about their families and then they get the information and they bail they never see them again sounds like you’re dating life back in the day actually but by the way this GLG thing is really funny uh so when you do these calls tell me if you’re like me so I’ve done a couple of these calls talk really slow yeah first of all it’s like eighth grade and I’m trying to hit the word count Yeah Yeah so basically GLG they pay by the hour you could charge three grand an hour I become very capacious yeah I feel absolutely silly doing these like I know in my head like there’s an intellectual part of me that’s like of course course $2,000 an hour hell yeah I should be making that and you know what this is going to be such this I’m giving them Liquid Gold that’s what in my head I say that however during it I become very insecure about what I’m saying and I’m like none of this is special this is all so basic what I’m saying and I feel like I’m a high paid escort that doesn’t know how to have sex and I’m like I hope they’re happy with what they’re getting here for this $2,000 hour because did you ask him if it was good for them it’s a it’s a weird thing I don’t actually do it anymore but in this book so one of the ways they made like a billion dollars was doing this for drugs and they found out to their investigation that 10% of us doctors admitted to being one of these Consultants on some of these networks and that’s only the people who admitted it and so it was like a it’s like a pretty widespread problem uh my takeaway so far in the book is um if you’re a white C CRI criminal you could basically get away with it you can get away with it um that’s crazy so he got evicted of insider trading and what did he have to pay and did he go to jail he paid billions he did not go to jail wow maybe he paid two billion but he started a new firm the next the next year right he paid two billion as he laughed uncontrollably um all right so you were going to talk about like their work culture sounded like um yeah so I got obsessed with this work culture and I saw this um quote by uh Keith R boy and so Keith R boy was at Pomp’s conference and he talks about 996 do you know what 996 is means Chinese work schedule it’s a Chinese work schedule it stands for 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. 6 days a week and he Keith stance it seems is he loves 996 and he tells a story about one of his portfolio companies they just hired the CFO and the woman who got the job she was like I was specifically looking looking for a 996 culture and I googled and I found out that on your job listing you said that you guys were 996 and that seems crazy to me because that I don’t think is a lifestyle that I want and so I was curious about 996 and so I got down this I went down this Rabbit Hole of of of working so do you know the history have you ever read the history of like the 40-hour work week do you know how it came to be um roughly here’s what I know you tell me where where I’m missing something which is just that when we went to like the factory industrial thing that’s when the 40-hour work week of going into theot quotequote office the the the plant the factory became a thing um it wasn’t that way before so somewhat Yeah so basically in the book sapiens the author hypothesizes that hunter gatherers you know we’re talking pre- civilization worked something like 30 hours a week and spent a lot of time just being idle with family then the Industrial Revolution comes along and factories and machines come about and in the late 1800s early 1900s uh there was a bunch of surveys done amongst the workers and it was found on average most of them were working 100 hours a week 6 days a week uh so they’re working constantly and it was a grind there was constant like protests there was constantly people fighting over this there was legisl legislation that went into uh Power in both England and America in like the 1920s where it was like government workers you don’t have to work that much we’re going to give you a normal work week but basically Factory workers didn’t get [ ] then in the 1920s Henry Ford was like Hey look uh the thing about our guys working so much and my company is so big had Ford Ford Motor Company I I need people to buy cars because if they’re working so much they can’t buy pants they can’t buy shirts they can’t go out to eat and thus they can’t buy cars therefore I’m going to try this thing where we’re going to create the weekend we’re going to give Saturday and Sunday off because if they don’t buy [ ] people aren’t going to buy cars so in the 1920s Henry Ford says the weekend’s a thing and that was the beginning of the 40 hour work week at least in terms of like it being systematic Henry Ford created the weekend he made it like a thing yeah uh yeah he was the he was the first big company to make it a thing yeah and he he made it a thing and what he found was he did something crazy at the time he goes hey workers guess what I’m giving you Saturday and Sunday off I’m not even going to touch your pay your pay is going to stay the same and that was really revolutionary at the time his workers ended up loving him more he also did a bunch of crazy stuff so he built towns so there’s towns similar to what Facebook does Now and Google they actually like give you a stip in if you live within 5 miles of the office because he was like I want you to be close to the office I want you to be available when you can but I’m going to give you Saturdays and Sundays off and that was kind of the beginning of the weekend and then since then that’s kind of become standard uh even though he gave them the weekend people were still working 12 hours a day so he was people were working 60 hours a week but then he eventually lowered it a bit to 40 hours a week and that became kind of what the 40-hour work week in America is for workers and so he sort of invented that what a legend yeah well he’s done a lot of bad stuff too so so I just Googled uh so Sunday were kind of casually off but it was like for church but he’s the one who made Saturday also off basically and then also the the 40 Hour Work Week versus 70h hour work week which is crazy yeah and he didn’t change their pay he goes I’m gonna I’m gonna give you what you want bad stuff Henry Ford did like how bad how bad are we talking super anti-semitic so he big fan of Hitler uh wrote books called like I think he has a famous book I forget exactly what it’s called but it’s called like our problem and it’s like basically why Jews are bad oh wow so yeah he so very very imperfect person but that’s okay we could talk about the 40-hour work week which is interesting um and so that worked out and that’s how the 40-hour work week came to be now over time a lot of companies have tested four day weeks and some claim that it’s effective but I think the verdict still out these things are really hard to measure and then I went and read a bunch of studies on what’s the optimal amount of work time have you ever studied what the optimal amount of work time is no a lot of research says that humans can only focus and concentrate really hard 5 hours a day that’s what some of this research says there’s also a ton of research that shows that there’s like um stupidly High uh it’s like 30% increase of heart attack blood pressure things like that of anything above 50 hours a week and so there’s like a huge issue at 996 in health and I’ve read enough biographies to know there’s definitely a trend like can like have you ever heard the story of like rich people having in the 18 or 1900s having to go to Florida for fresh air cuz they needed to like relax or they have like stomach ulcers have you ever like heard like there’s like a no I don’t read history books there’s a pretty like common story amongst Ty air pollution or because of something else well they were just like having nervous breakdowns like it it was like it’s like a common thing amongst the biographies and the doctors would be like you need fresh air you have to go to Florida you need fresh air you’re having a nervous breakdown it’s a very common thing of these of these guys like Joseph Kennedy um John Rockefeller having to retire for basically or take a three-month sabatical because they’re broken you know John Rockefeller at the end of his life you know what Alpa is yeah he had Alpa so at the age of 50 he lost all of his hair and that’s a stressinduced disease at least a lot of people think so so is your uh first of all couple questions number one is 996 still in effect I thought I had heard something that China was like rolling that back that they don’t do that anymore technically it’s illegal um but still maybe some people are do but still it’s practice so for example there’s a lot of quotes that says uh like jd.com as well as Jack ma from Alibaba there’s quotes where they’re like like look like do you want to be successful if you do you have to do 996 and they like say this on record in their weed chat talking about it right so it’s still common I think though there is an interesting point here which is I think Americans in particular don’t want you want to create a narrative about why China can potentially beat us and you say to yourself like all they care about is work work work work work and I just don’t want that life and so there could be this the case of like well they don’t actually work significantly harder than Americans but that’s just the excuse that we’re going to give in our head because in reality I think a small percentage of Chinese companies are still doing 996 in general a lot of the young Chinese are revolting against that and that’s one of the reasons why you see a lot of Chinese American workers I think because they prefer the American Style versus the Chinese style so okay so that’s what’s going on in China uh Keith R boy says that he runs his companies on 996 no guy’s at Barry’s boot camp like twice a day what what he talking about so here’s what he said so there’s company called Tava which uh ironically is a software for it’s a service for warehouse workers to help uh factories find warehouse workers he says um it’s a 996 in the office every single person every single day it’s very uh impressive and it’s not surprising why that company has done so well in fact he says this is why the Asian companies succeed because they do 996 so yeah as an investor you love when your companies do 996 why not of course of course you love it um okay next thing do you um do you feel that with Hampton you’re going to be the Henry Ford of Our Generation and take us down to the 5H hour work day rather than the 8 hour work day is that a thing you’re doing because I’m trying to bring in I’m trying to revolutionize the adult nap right like you know the adult nap is going to be my lasting Legacy uh when I die people are going to be napping in the middle of the day and they’re going to every day they’re going to thank Sean for for bringing this new nap culture to to adult adulthood naps I’ve read thousands or I’ve read hundreds of biographies naps are very common amongst a lot of the people I’ve read about by the way so if it makes you feel good naps are common you read about Legends Legends nap I nap therefore Sean L equals Legend yeah you’re Indian you’re good at math you get it um uh do I think that no I think the 40-hour work week I I don’t think it’s broken that’s what I think I don’t think it’s broken like how many how many hours a day do you are you like actively trying to work and then how many hours a day do you think you’re productive I’m those two numbers so like I don’t plant 9 to six I don’t like that that’s I I treat my running my companies I like I remember my parents were like oh you work for yourself you can come out to lunch with us I’m like no 9 to 6 it’s my job I’m available and I’m working right so I say that I’m 9 to6 I spend a lot of time thinking like I literally just be sitting there thinking writing notes so if you consider that work I think I work 40 hours a week if you consider work like typing and actually contributing to a product way less 10 hours a week yeah I do the same thing where I’m like it’s awesome I’m My Own Boss problem I’m an [ ] as a boss to myself you know like I work harder when I’m My Own Boss versus if somebody else was managing me but nowadays with kids uh my schedule’s very different I basically do these sort of like three- hour Sprints three times a day but at different times so like this right now is my first Sprint it basically starts at usually 8:30 or 9 and I’ll go till 11:30 or noon then I go play with my kids for a little bit which is honestly only like 20 30 minutes but we’ll do something fun and then I’ll come back I’ll do another 90 minutes in that that next block then I’ll go workout and then after the workout I got another 90 minutes so that’s kind of like the second block is those two 90 minutes just split with a workout and then late at night after my kids sleep I’ll do another 90 minutes and so I don’t know what that adds up to 909090 uh plus the 3 hours in the morning but that’s how much I work which probably like six seven hours a day and and by the way I I I I don’t I think I kind of glossed over this but at bite dance they currently have employees work six days a week every 14 days and then uh what’s the big um what’s the big like phone company over there is it called Hawai how do you how you pronounce that H they routinely ask staff for six day weeks every month um and they give and they pay them extra for it right um so like it’s still pretty common but at the end of a 40 Hour Work Week where it’s been a hard week I find myself fried like I I I’ll sit and like either play a video game or like watch TV like I I can’t do much I don’t know how a guy like Elon mus or some of these folks like have in intellectual stimulation for that long uh I find it to be very very challenging and and I personally cannot do it so would I take $10 million a year to be a hedge fund portfolio manager and live that life where you’re on call 20 hours a day maybe for $20 million a year for 10 million probably not I think it’ be hard hard I mean there’s a number right there’s a number where you would do it for a couple years I mean not to put you on blast but like you’re already going to be creating that much or more value without doing it so why would you ever make that trade right like it’s not it doesn’t make I didn’t say I would I said maybe I said there’s a number there is a number I I that number has to be pretty high 10 million not a chance 20 probably not I I I don’t know yeah but that sounded like uh that that probably not there sounded like give me three more seconds of silence and I’ll changed my mind but have you ever read a book like have you ever watched James Bond and you see the villain’s lifestyle and you’re like that’s exciting I want to do bad stuff that’s what that’s what working at a head head fun is yeah does does do does do it Hoodrat stuff with your friends that’s what it feels like you’re doing bad stuff with your homies and it that can that does seem you the one sexy thing I like about hedphones so there was a guy when I was in college guy comes into the office our guy comes into our our class slick back hair and I forgot his name but his dad is like a legend in the hedge fund game like he was like one of the OG hedge fun guys who made a billion dollars or whatever this is the son son’s got his own hedge fun and he comes in and he just had you know when you like you guys were talking before we started recording about like the somehow the like more successful and rich people get the ACT actually the more like at peace and like chill they are when you they’re they’re more generous with their time ironically and they’re uh nicer and Kinder so this guy kind of had that energy where he was in no rush and I just remember I could literally feel that energy coming off that this guy was in no rush which was very different than every other person I had seen who was this person we’re always rushing from one class to the next or cramming for finals and [ ] like that like this like high achiever stress it’s just like who was this person I forgot his name um regardless guy comes in and he’s there to give a talk and he says basically two interesting things that always stuck with me first thing he said was he he’s talking about his hedge fund and and blah blah blah we’re all all kind of like eating out the palm of his hand and he’s like you know who here would find it fun to work at a fun like RS and and do this like make big bets for a living and like you know 80% of the class hands up and he goes um he goes okay so look around here’s 80% of the PE 80% of the class just raise their hand and imagine if you all applied because somebody had asked them a question about risk like how much you know should I should I work this career ladder or should I try this thing that’s like a little bit of a risk and so he’s explaining he goes look around he goes imagine of you applied to this job what would your resume look like all of you would give me a white piece of paper with black text you’d put your little name at the top and then You’ put Duke University and you’d put your stupid GPA and then you put your internships you put four internships and You’ you make it sound like you’re you changed the world in those internships he goes there is nothing that differentiates you he goes you have a degree great that’s table Stakes like you know like oh great you went to a good school like so what so did everybody else that applies to this job he goes the only thing I can look at to even decide do I want to meet this person is the bottom fifth of your resume the very bottom 20% where it says other and that’s your chance to say other stuff you’re into your interest your sto something you’ve done that’s remarkable or or notable he goes that’s the only way I’m going to differentiate between all of you that are raising your hands right now because otherwise you’re all students you all did an internship you all got a threo whatever GPA it doesn’t matter um that you were on student counsil like no one cares and when he said he goes so I would take the next three years four years of Your Life After College and I would go stuff that other column cuz either you’re going to make it big doing something cool or even if all those fail when you go to apply to a job like mine I’m going to have some reason to actually want to talk to you and that was one of the most I don’t know profound things but like best pieces of career advice that I had ever heard and actually changed my I went and started a goddamn sushi restaurant afterwards because I was like that’s part of my other they either this works I create the next Chipotle or it’s a great story from my other section because he’s right like that ring that that that was the truth was told to me and the commonality between a lot of these folks which I I think you have um they played poker and they got really comfortable uh gambling so so that was the other thing that stood out he’s looking around and in class everybody’s got a laptop open and he’s looking around I’m like I could see he’s like counting or something he’s like measuring something and I asked him I go are you I was like what are you counting what are you what are you doing he goes oh I’m looking at how many of you guys have Macs versus PCS he goes because my entire year right now is I’m going to make a long short bet I’m either going to go long Microsoft and short apple or I’m going to go long apple and short Microsoft and he was like I was like what I don’t even know what I didn’t even understand what he was talking about like a long short sort of spread trade and he was like um yeah so like you know my entire like he’s like I’m going to make a $10 million bet or I’m going to make a whatever he said some ridiculously big number he goes I just have to make one bet this year and I’m going to bet 10 or 50 million on either apple or Microsoft here and so I’m just trying to understand like what do you guys using and why why why do you pick this and I thought that was the coolest [ ] in the world like that was like you know he could have lit up a blunt in front of me and I wouldn’t have thought he was cooler than what he just said that his entire year was to figure out should he be long apple or Microsoft and he was just gonna walk around the world trying to figure this out he’s gonna make a $50 million do bet on it and I was like that’s so cool that’s incredible and I’m sitting here playing like poker during class you know on the one two tables trying to make 200 bucks and this guy was like gambling at a whole another level on one concentrated bet that [ ] was like very attractive to me I wonder uh which one he picked uh hopefully I think he had told us at the time I had asked him I was like so which one he’s like I think Apple because and he had said some reasoning because of Apple it wasn’t just like apple cuz it’s cool it was something like he was looking in the education Market to figure out like basically our age cohort what were we buying what were the schools like recommending and then what was like the he had done I forgot exactly what he was doing but he was like looking at basically like he thought that it was important to know what high schoolers and college kids and like young professionals were being told to buy and buying voluntarily and if there was like some difference there he had said something now this is like 15 years ago I don’t remember the exacts but I remember it being Apple that he was leaning towards so that’s my whole summary of hedge funds of um the 40-hour work week um this stuff interests me Henry Ford by the way came up with a lot of good stuff invented Kingsford Charcoal uh that was his doing um obviously for assembly got side the uh assembly line uh the guy is super fascinating a very imperfect person did a lot of bad stuff too but very interesting um what do you want to do all right so I saw something come come by that um I think you’ll find pretty fascinating have you heard about this company called law and crime speaking they were acquired recently they were Acquired and so this is a media company that does a combination of like True Crime plus just coverage of Trials and Media company started by this guy Dan Abrams and they got acquired for a rumored nine figures and I was like wow that’s a pretty impressive exit for like this kind of like crime Niche media thing um do you know about this guy Dan Abrams he’s got a like an interesting backstory no what’s he do so he’s basically pretty prolific with these like Niche media sites so 2009 he launches something called gossip cop it’s celebrity gossip blog and uh it gets to 8 million monthly uniques so he goes into celebrity gossip that’s number one I go to tmz.com every day homepage a home P every single day every day that’s what that’s on my list of things that I check every morning that’s part of your eight hour workday well you know you got like the same the news websites that you check I just want to see what’s going on I check no news websites but anyways this guy so then he creates geosystem um which is a internet site for meme culture launches that in 2010 he creates uh something called mediate which is basically power rankings for media personalities that one gets to 14 million monthly unique still going today uh he launched something called stylite which is kind of like the same thing Power Rankings but for designers models writers like people in the style business holy [ ] Sports grid which is a sports news business that was acquired in 2013 so he’s creating a bunch of these all in this period of like 2009 to 2015 roughly he created all of those that I just mentioned uh he created one more in 2012 called brazer which was basically personality like Chef personalities and um I’m like this guy’s like a that’s just interesting like an interesting model but B like all of those are like the right niches like there’s like you know missionary versus mercenary people like he strikes me as somebody who’s mercenary where he’s like oh these like these idiots care about like you know celebrity chefs all right here you go I’m going to tell you every goddamn thing you need to know news information um you know stories about these celebrity chefs oh these people love um you know whatever whatever it is styli you know media personalities or style or celebrity gossip great I’m going to create I’m going to go fulfill demand I got thirsty customers I’ll go open up lemonade stands right next to them that’s the that’s the style of Entrepreneurship that I get out of this guy and if you Google this guy and you click images most people were recognize him do you recognize him I I he’s on MSNBC he’s on TV all the time yeah exactly uh he’s like really goodl looking he’s got a great voice he’s always commenting on like like one another guilty pleasure I watch Cops all the time I freaking love cops that’s my favorite show uh and and they have like a spin-off called live PD he’s always on there saying like oh what she did she’s about to get charged with X Y and Z right so this guy he’s basically a media entrepreneur and he’s on yeah like all the all the things that you mentioned he um so Abra media I guess is the thing that’s like launching all this stuff one of the things he launches so 2016 he launches law and crime that’s the one he just sold it’s basically it starts you know legal news website then it’s live streaming trials then they have a cable show they have an OT show they have a YouTube channel they got 5 million subscribers on YouTube they cover every trial cuz like I’m like pretty kneed deep in this s SPF trial right now can’t look away from the car wreck you know like rarely does news get me but this one I mean I’m I’m I’m embraced in its arms laughing it up yeah I I’m just fully engulfed by this SPF trial and so um definitely there’s like this like part of our brains that’s just wired to tune into the stuff like I watched the Depp verse herd Netflix show I don’t know if you saw that one really really well done like the Netflix documentary on the Johnny Depp trial and uh you can’t I mean you you watch these things and you just get fully engrossed in them so he you know he sees that creates this and they raise $5 million bucks and reportedly have sold for nine figures so over $100 million I don’t know if that’s exactly true uh three years ago the reported Revenue was like 13 million Topline and so you know who knows where where it landed at maybe it’s at 20 25 million now I’m not exactly sure but amazing exit and kind of amazing entrepreneur career he also by the way launched during the time he was launching True Crime uh law on crime he launched a Christian TV streaming service called ambot TV which I bet is also like that’s I love that Niche um you know which is crazy I mean the guy’s not Christian um at all uh so that that’s very I said do you know Dan you didn’t know the guy you’re like he’s not Christian well Abrams is a Jewish last name and I’m looking at his um um I’m looking at his Wikipedia and he’s he’s it says he was raised in a Jewish family and his his father has a Wikipedia page and I’m looking Point Sam um all right so this what’s the Christian show so go to ambot tv.com and so they’re just live streaming like you know uh I don’t know good old Christian entertainment I don’t I don’t know what they it’s not something I normally watch but like you could watch basically like live biblical literacy you can watch like you know inside one of these churches the Christ Evangelical like Church live you can view past sermons you can watch interviews and shows and uh this thing doesn’t seem to have a ton of traffic on here but let me look at the YouTube channel I bet the YouTube Channel’s n it’s pretty small too so the this Christian site thing it looks like hasn’t hasn’t quite taken off uh yet but I do like this Niche I feel like this could be could be successful as well and then he has another one called whiskey Raiders a site that uses a proprietary algorithm to rate whiskies on a scale of 50 to 100 yeah I mean this guy just goes into passion niches right so it’s like passionate Niche let me create it right like this is what Ramone did with a soap oper blog it’s like wow you built and sold a soap oper blog for $9 million that’s like incredible how do you even have this idea idea and he was like well I created Facebook pages around a bunch of Niche topics wrestling politics um soap operas and others and I saw that the fan page for these soap operas was like popping off it was like the second or third most most popular one and so then he created a Blog he had never seen a s proper in his life and created a Blog where they would write spoilers and and Recaps and stories about the so propers and built up so much traffic he was able to sell it for almost $10 million without ever raising any money it was incredible but by the way the the what this guy is doing uh Abrams Dan Abrams how he’s launch he’s prolifically launching new stuff I think media is the best industry if your intention is to launch a lot of things someone kind of described it once where they told me that a media company is basically um a collection of different projects all under one brand whereas a software company typically is one product with added features and you’re just scaling it um the interesting thing about media is when you understand what types of things grabs people uh attentions uh attention and how to look at certain numbers to understand where there’s an underserved nerd uh uh underserved need and nerd and nerd yeah uh you can basically do that for any Niche that like you’re like there’s it’s a formula um a lot different than software um eCommerce is a lot like that too uh you notice that some somebody who knocks it out of the park with want e-commerce thing they know that they could do this five times over it’s just do they have the energy and the the desire to create an organization that’s going to launch multiple Brands versus the one but it’s so applicable to do exactly what you did for one for but there’s a problem with e-commerce which is your cash is tied up in inventory with media you typically have more operating cash flow and so you have more money to deploy to some of these resources uh how many how much of your how much of your business so you have a business in in e-commerce business how much of the money is in inventory a significant amount without saying like particular numbers probably 30% in inventory so not not not that’s not horrible that’s that’s not horrible A lot of times it’s worse so I would imagine it can you can go wrong if you if you mess up if you mis forecast or you get a bunch of dead stock slow moving inventory yeah you can that can stockpile real quickly and become a big issue for you but also it depends how you run it so in the same way that there’s a 100 people now trying to create newsletter businesses and those hundred are not going to have the same success that you did with the hustle or that I had with milk Road why is that right because it’s how you operate the same thing with the eCommerce you know with e-commerce if you set up the right payment terms with your factory like for example like for us we sell inventory before we we have to pay money for it yeah so that’s great right negative cash conversion so once you get set up like that then you’re you know you you’re an idiot if you’re if you’re losing money or you’re tying up too much money in inventory right because that’s not necess uh if you run it well it’s when you make a mistake or or the market turns that you know you you can get in trouble tell me about this guy Tyler and what his post said I I I think I know who he is yeah so I don’t know T about this guy this guy Tyler Hodge I’ve seen him on Twitter he’s around on on Twitter but he wrote a great blog post that I I I loved um I don’t know if you saw this but it was about sardines did you see uh this blog post about sardines so I didn’t see it but I’m pulling it up now by the way the blog post it’s going to make a comeback I think dude I’m with you I read this one post and I was like I don’t know who this Tyler guy is but I like him I was like I like him and I respect him uh one one blog post could do that for you it’s very hard for that to happen in like you know a single tweet or an Instagram story or um a Tik Tok short right like it’s like it takes a little bit more one blog post you need more time yeah exactly I think podcast work well with it but um podcast YouTube videos if they’re longer work it’s basically the amount of uh time that you’ve taken from someone like that’s how inv post and he’s like uh he’s like I’m reading this book margin of safety and in it he writes about this famous bubble that happened that you probably haven’t heard of I guess not that famous but there was a bubble that happened that you probably are not aware of which was the Sardine bubble in Southern California so I’m going to read it out for you here he goes there’s an old story about a market craze in sardine trading where um sardines disappeared from their Waters in Monteray and so the commodity Traders started bidding up the price of a can of sardines the price of one can of sardines sword and everybody’s buying up these cans of sardines they’re making a bunch of money flipping them and one day a buyer decides you know what I’m going to treat myself to I’m going to take one of these expensive cans of sardines I’m going to pop it open and I’m going to enjoy he pops it open and immediately just becomes sick he’s vomiting and he’s like oh he’s like tells the seller he’s like hey man I bought these expensive sardines for you these are no good and the seller’s like you don’t understand these these are not eating sardines these are trading sardines and he’s like uh so then Tyler draws the point he’s like it feels like this is what’s happened in the last few years with like um tech company valuations he’s like there was a b like there was a game to be played you would invest in the seed round and then the A and you’re you this Company’s trying to use that money to grow it’s not really profitable but don’t worry about that right we’re losing money but it’s it’s all good we’re growing and we got this narrative and the narrative just needed to be sold to the next round investor the B you know the better analogy for this is crypto well uh I don’t think it’s quite in cry there is some in crypto right but like there’s the nft stuff in crypto but the difference is um to get to the point of what he’s saying so crypto is a different type of asset right crypto is not a a productive asset it’s not a cash fling asset so what he’s talking about he’s like you would get these businesses that would go later and later stage and um each round is getting bigger and bigger because everybody is basically it’s greater fool Theory right they’re they’re thinking well I don’t care if this business actually generates a lot of free cash flow I can just sell it to the next to the next buyer and they would do that they would get to the point where it goes public uh but now the music stopped and these companies have to be you know they’re opening up the Kanas sardines and realizing that oh [ ] these were not eating sardines these are trading sardines and so you see a company like hoppen go from $4 billion do valuation or $2 billion valuation whatever it was to I think it’s sold for like 10 million bucks or 20 million bucks the other day like you know it’s down whatever 100x from from its you know Peak valuation just two years ago and uh there’s another company called better which is like a a mortgage company that’s also like you know about to go bankrupt after a billion dollar valuation and this is going to keep happening you’re going to see a bunch of you know the sort of dead unicorns and in crypto there was a a a version of this like nfts for example are you buying this because you love the art are you buying this because you think the price is going to go up and up for 95% of the people 99% of the people it was I’m buying this because the price is going to go up that works until the price stops going up and then at that point we all are sitting here holding these like you know these trading sardines that we don’t want to eat um the difference of course is that and the point that Tyler’s made making is that what’s in Vogue now is eating sardines companies where if you couldn’t sell it to the next but if you can’t exit if you can’t IPO if you can’t go raise the next round well doesn’t matter just pop it open and eat it right doesn’t matter just the company has profits it has cash flow so we can we don’t need to flip this to the next person it produces enough cash flow and um you know this sounds very basic to a lot of people like the whole idea of crypto is triggering to them or the idea of capital and these unprofitable tech companies that raise money at these crazy valuations that’s just triggering to them um and so you know for the cash flow Kings out there this is like you know today is your day now is your era you’re you’re you are now kind of like King of the Hill at the moment and I wanted to bring this up with you because I feel like you have really never gotten into any of these trading games I have never seen you get swept up in Angel Investing where you’re like yeah this this company today it’s worth 10 million even though it’s got no product and no Revenue but it doesn’t matter because they’ll raise an a at 50 million I’ll be marked up 5x and then it’ll raise a b at 120 million I’ll be marked up 10x whatever I’ve never seen you fall into that one or crypto really any of these trading games you seem to be a guy who always goes into eating sardines games whereas I’ve dabbled in both and made money and lost money in in sort of both um I’m curious what your reaction is to this yeah so a bunch the first thing is the reason I’ve never got into that is I think people default to be being too optimistic about particular businesses um you know what’s interesting is um one of the very one of the very first signs or pieces of writing that humans have ever discovered we’re talking caveman era they wrote on the on the um they wrote on the cave that said the generation after them is lazy and they just don’t care and that’s like a common theme every generation says the L the one after them is lazy they just don’t care sucks yeah their music sucks it’s like the same thing over and over again and you said something about we’re caught up in this at the moment My Philosophy is we have always been caught up in that human nature doesn’t change we have been the same for almost forever and the way that we act today is the way we have always reacted and so when I see new things I think this isn’t new this has been here many many many many times and my goal is to find out what has been here for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and what or thousands of years and that is where I choose to place my time in um for example in this blog post uh she he quotes Sarah G who says who’s like a famous investor and apparently uh one of her portfolio companies said Sarah tell all the founders their job is to generate cash flow because no one has ever told me that and that’s crazy but that’s a common thing yeah and I was I’m taking this do you know how to read a balance sheet or cash flow statement or profit p&l yes but you know of course there’s there’s levels to that game so I I I I don’t really know how to read it and so I’m taking a my intend to take a course at like I I want to do like one of these Executive MBA classes like one of these fancy ones but before I even did this I bought this course it’s called the 4day MBA where this guy’s teaching me how to read a balance sheet and his whole course is summarized in a very simple way and it’s um basically the point of cash is to generate or to buy uh buy stuff that you can then sell to create profit which that profit can turn into cash flow and a lot of times people focus on profit but profit is a is a hypothesis cash is a fact and it took me to take that course to realize and get back to basics of like wait everything is about creating cash flow yeah and he uses this wonderful example of Enron he’s like check this out look at this balance sheet they’re generating lots of profit lots of profit Goldman Morgan Stanley they’re all saying buy this company buy this company their stocks great at the pnl the p&l will show you the profit no that’s the issue is profit isn’t important operating cash flow is on paper they were making lots of profit the problem is is that it was all they weren’t like they weren’t actually making profit uh or they were rather but they weren’t creating operating cash flow the vast majority of their cash came from financing activities a raising more money and this is why there’s a book called the smartest guys in the room because apparently everyone was like oh they’ll be fine they’re the smartest guys in the room and you see these Trends today with crypto with web 3 now with AI before that with social media where the smartest guys in the room say it’s okay that they’re not making profit it’s okay that they’re not making cash it’s okay that this valuation is huge but that’s a just a common problem that we see over and over and over again and so I get suspicious of all of those things because I read a lot of history and you see patterns and this is a very common thing we have thought this way from the beginning um so the story of the tech industry like V the story of all the the startup industry Silicon Valley is that that actually was correct like you’re saying it like uh what social media the story was these companies um you know failed most failed of course of course some worked but that’s what I think what what it is the real the real lesson is you have to know what game you’re playing so for example correct I I agree when you’re playing the Silicon Valley game the Silicon Valley game is most of these companies are going to fail or be sort of um inconsequential to your Returns the only thing that matters when you’re doing you know venture capital or doing Tech investing is every year there’s like 20 maybe 30 companies that matter did you get into them how many of those did you get into is it zero is it one is it two is it three the issue though is that people put too large of a percentage of their net worth into these things that’s where it becomes a huge problem and a lot of people do that I I I don’t think that’s true I think most people are not even invested in startups the average person can like zero get startups out of this example you could say crypto you could I mean a lot of people have gone broke because of it um and at the the underlying asset still does not have like a repeatable way to deliver cash flows that’s that’s the difference uh you know uh there are different types of assets so for example um you could buy a watch or you could buy art they’re never going to produce cash flow uh you can buy gold bars they’re never going to produce cash flow there’s different definely certain types of art certain Rolex Rolexes have grown no they’re not they’re nonproductive assets but they are Collectibles but there is a history of uh hundreds 100 years 50 years of repeat of people wanting to purchase it of course of course not much not not as much with crypto yeah and of course and of course that the of course you don’t get the same same upside because it’s sort of a you know that game is played out it’s more efficient market versus crypto Collectibles came out so here’s a new new version of Collectibles and in this one you could be Jack Butcher and you could make millions and millions of dollars because you understood that crypto Collectibles are going to be a thing or you could have come in at the wrong time or put the wrong percentage in of course you could make money and lose money in any of these but the idea is you have to know what game you’re playing if you’re playing the game of crypto or investing in gold or investing in art or investing in watches you are not playing the same game as somebody who’s investing in cash flowing businesses if you’re investing in startups you’re not playing the same game as somebody’s investing in cash FL businesses so I think the important thing is you have to know which game are you even playing and then what are the rules and topology of that game so for example with Venture investing the mindset is actually I’m going to lose money eight out of 10 times here and then if you go read Warren Buffett you’re like oh this guy’s the greatest investor of all time let me learn something about that that I can apply to Angel investing and Warren Buffett’s first rule is don’t lose money his second rule don’t forget rule number one if you use Warren Buffett’s rule you could never be Peter teal if you use Peter Teal’s rules you could never be Waring Buffet right like you know these are they’re different games and you you have to know the rules of that game uh in order to play it what I think is interesting is that at different times that at different times each game might have a sort of like hot season there’s a there’s a there is a uh there are these like Windows where certain games are more ripe or more um more attractive more lucrative to play but my point is you ask why I don’t do this type of stuff is I get nervous about many of those games because I believe that for example before startups in the early 1900s there was car companies do you know how many car companies existed in the 1920s and 1930s tons tons most all of them went bankrupt except for like five there was tons of car companies and it was the exact same thing as tech companies today and so I’m weary of those types of games where I I fall a little bit more into the warrant Buffet thing where I’d rather have steady but smaller returns as opposed to Big lumpy jumps I do get big lumpy jumps but I do those in things with things that I can control which is starting and selling companies I just prefer not to do it in things that I don’t have control in yeah and to be clear you don’t actually play the Warren Buffet game you play the index investing you know basically uh I don’t try to make my money on the Investments I try to be sort of safe and conservative with my investments because I’m going to be aggressive and risky with entrepreneurship yeah uh which is not what Warren Buffett does he does he doesn’t start companies he buys companies in in full I met Warren Buffett in the sense of um I’ll try not to lose money and I will do I’ll take a somewhat more conservative approach than many of my peers yes yes yes the startup game is a the startup investing game is a chasing and waiting game which is a very R strange combo you’re trying to chase to find these one these breakouts that are going to become the one of the 20 companies that mattered this year not the 2000 that didn’t matter and then you have to play a waiting game to let those seeds kind of Bloom over the next uh you know seven to 10 years a month ago you went to Brian Johnson’s house so I want to ask you about that or do you want to save it for Friday you can do it let’s do it well so Brian Johnson the the the crazy guy who I love who claims he’ll or he’s trying not to die by decreasing his age you went to his house you interviewed him that’s going live soon how was it was there any like Spectacular learnings from him yeah going to house is kind of remarkable um so big house uh not huge but um like nice definitely a nice place um walk in and actually meet his son first so I see his son his son who’s on the same on Instagram he’s on the same protocol as his dad pretty much yeah rips but he’s like 20 like whatever he’s like 20 years old or 19 years old or something like that and so he’s like I think he’s in college or going to college something like that he he’s super ripped super kind guy and you know I was like so like what’s it like to be you know eating lunch with your friends and you’ve got the green sludge and they’re you know they’re eating nachos or whatever and he’s like yeah it’s cool it’s not I don’t care you know I’m doing what I want to do it’s like you know the the independent mindedness that it takes to live a lifestyle of Brian Johnson you can see like you know from as even just as a parent how that like shapes your kids to be a little bit different and yeah you’re like oh you’re emotionally healthy you know I he’s like I was like what do you think would be great out of this interview with him and he was like you know I hope you clear up like some of the misconceptions like there’s a bunch of misconceptions as to why he’s doing this and if people understood why he’s actually doing this they would feel a lot differently about what he’s doing and um and so you know I just I enjoyed that got a tour of his house showed us you show me where he works out how he where he eats he opened up his fridge and literally I was like let’s see what’s in here he opens up his fridge and there’s literally nothing in the fridge there is like there is absolutely nothing there just like one bottle of red wine on the side and he’s like and then he’s like oh yeah um he like opens up his free he opens up his freezer and there’s like some medicine in there I’m like oh what’s that for he’s like oh that’s like this drug that they give to people with leukemia but I just take it proactively I was like okay oh cool um you know you’re trying to find Rapport when you go to someone’s house and I was like so I wear this Fitbit um I’m cool I’m into tracking too right like yeah I work out sometimes uh I eat sometimes I eat chips uh you know like you know it’s like wow it’s literally like me meeting a bit of an alien person cuz there his lifestyle and his discipline and his values and his uh priorities are just very very different than mine but also very cool very inspiring he’s very a very cool guy so he was um like when you go to someone’s house you meet somebody in you’re off camera within three minutes you get a Vibe of like what’s this person’s Vibe some people will give you a hardcore [ ] off Vibe some people are kind of like let’s get this done you know Vibe and he was totally different he was very kind very curious uh you know want you know it felt like you know respectful uh very very respectful very nice what was he curious about you um well first he was just like thankful he was like oh yeah the first episode we did was a lot of fun one that we had him on a long time ago and he’s like that really kind of like you know helped get the word out there got a bunch of good messages from it and that led to more good things so I think the first thing was like kind of like thanks for you know thanks for doing that um that was the first thing the second thing was like you know how do you react to this he’s like so I’m curious like what do you think of this and is this something you would do and how can I make this more approachable and like what do you find um you know he was like almost like doing a bit of research in a way to like versus just being a know—it all like I already know the answer I have the answer you guys are all idiots for not following ver you know is having an open mind on on you know what’s a normal you know a person who’s not in the protocol what’s their reaction to this and did he uh have help running around his house like doctors he has he like kind of like number two person she like helps do a bunch of things um but not like it’s not like house help that’s like his like you know she’s like no I meant like nurses oh there was no doctors or nurses there when I was there we went up to like his room where he’s got like all the heavy machinery to like measure me your skin and then measure your eyes and measure your ears and all that stuff and I was like I was like so you’re really measuring like every organ separately like of course you know skin is the largest organ in your body it needs to be healthy and like you know my eyes are important that’s how I see and I’m like well when you say it like that yeah sure um I was like so what’s the weak Link and he’s like left ear uh or like one of right or left ear I can’t remember he’s and I was like he’s like I have the ear of like a 70-year-old and I go why he goes from shooting he’s like you know I used to whatever he’s like one ear is down but the other ear is exposed and so he’s like when I would shoot that loud uh gunshot that I used to do like you know with some frequency it messed up my ear and it’s very hard to rejuvenate or recover an ear and he’s like so you know this goddamn thing is is the weak link did you change anything in your life after seeing him I tried his protocol for about 20 days um so I at way yeah so I ate the I told my chef I was like hey this is the new thing I I would like some sludge for lunch and then I want some nutty pudding and um and I tried to buy I didn’t do all of his supplements that’s the one thing I didn’t do cuz to do his supplements you need like 65 things that I couldn’t even Source online I was like how the hell did you do this and did you feel good I mean it definitely felt light uh lighter like lighter weight like you can literally feel your body has like less baggage on it you know when you’re doing it however I um I really detested that like the main meal the like kind of lentil and green stuff and the one I had the one I when I follow the recipe did not taste like the one he had his house so I think he’s got like new versions of the recipe that are better tasting that’s so fascinating I’m seeing a lot of people there’s a whole subreddit of people saying they’re living his life well there’s there’s a group of people light that are doing this so uh they hold what’s called tea parties which is a testosterone party so you it’s a bunch of guys they get together they have a tea party where you get tested and you get your testosterone levels and you find out you know do you need to be taken test or what and then that same guy has created a meal delivery service called The Blueprint delivery service which is takes Brian Johnson a meal plan and makes it easy to do because again that’s the that’s honestly the hardest part of the whole thing is like it’s not easy to just do it and there’s like it’s hard enough to stick to something it’s if you add a bunch of friction of making it hard to even do that’s that’s pretty tough so I think it’s great that somebody’s doing that I think that’s honestly a good business idea because when I met with this guy I was like oh between the first time we talked to you and now he is way more famous and then between now and where he’s going to be in like sort of 3 years you could tell this guy is just going to become one of the most well-known people in this world like I think that his story is going to be one of the most well-known people in this world because he is essentially donating his body to science while he’s still alive which is like just a crazy thought and he said this during the interview he goes a bet against me is a bet against Ai and I probably wouldn’t bet against Ai and I go what AI what do you mean he goes well I’ve basically handed over my body and the decisions I make for my health to whatever the technology tells me is optimal and so if you think this is not going to work you’re basically saying that science and technology is not going to make better decisions than the average human like no way of course it’s going to make better decisions and I’m just going to do what the data tells me what the algorithm will tell me to do and he’s like longterm that’s Ai and he goes a bet against me is a bet against a I and then he the crazy thing by the way and this is in the interview and I don’t know how people are going to receive this cuz it’s like kind of intense the interview is a bit intense he’s like um he’s basically like I’m competing with Jesus and he doesn’t say that but he keeps comparing himself to Jesus and I’m like that’s kind of Blasphemous so what what do you mean and he’s like well here’s the thing he’s like uh I was told because he grew up pretty like a very religious like upbringing he goes I was told do XY Z and then you’ll die and then after you die you go to heaven I have a different offer for you do XYZ and don’t die he’s like that’s my whole thing don’t die if you’re against me you’re on team death if if you’re with me it’s team don’t die that’s like that’s how simple he’s boiled it down to and I’m like well you’re still going to die like the current thing is you’re aging slower but you’re still aging and that’s where he was like correct that’s currently what’s happened yeah for now the better the tech gets the better the AI gets the more I’m able to experiment the closer I get to just slowing down the point the the speed of Aging to the point where I’m not going to die one of the takeaways I have is what he has done it’s significant but you can do a version of this where you dedicate your life or it’s just 6 months to something and like some crazy experiment and talking about it and you could build a career like another example of this this that’s way more attainable is you know the carnivore diet is a thing right now only you know be one of these guys that only eats meat for six months that’s challenging but it’s not that challenging and you could build the career out of that and that is like really interesting so he’s he’s he’s spent a lot of money I think he says he spends two million or a million dollars a year that’s out of out of this world for just about everyone but there are other experiments that you can do and it becomes your identity and you can build a career about around that Tim Ferris did that a little bit with the 4our body where he tried things that weren’t crazy but he did a really good job of explaining it and making that part of his identity and he built a really great career around it and I think that’s really fascinating that’s the takeaway I have which is can you dedicate six months to something and talk about it and will that actually change your life for like for the purpose of actually talking about it you know what I mean yeah I think that’s totally true and one of the one of the cynical ways to look at Brian Johnson is he just did one of the greatest pre-launch marketing campaigns of all time because now he’s rolling out his olive oil and he’s launching his like you know blueprint like supplement pack or whatever ability for anybody to follow his protocol simply I don’t think that’s I don’t think that’s I don’t think that’s true at all the guy’s way too rich to like become an olive oil salesman you know like I I doubt know he’s got $800 million or whatever like you know he sold his last company for $800 million I don’t think that he’s doing this to launch a new supplement brand I don’t think that was his intention at all I genuinely believe that he needed some purpose in his life and he decid he found purpose and meaning in doing this and now he’s trying to like just do it at level 12 so he’s like cool you know for most people they can they can find some purpose and feel good in exercise or taking care of themselves um he just turned that dial up to level 12 and that’s what I see out of him well that’s awesome and you you don’t want necessarily want to also be at level 12 cuz the wheels start to come off when you’re at level 12 and it’s pretty intense but it’s cool it’s very cool that there are people who live at level 12 there’s I’m glad that Michael Phelps exists I am glad that Elon Musk exists I am glad that Brian Johnson exists so that you can see what level 12 looks like and then you dial that down to whatever makes sense for you but you can take inspiration you you at least know what level 12 is what I say about those people is I say I know two things are two things for sure I’m I love that they exist and I’m not them right uh that that’s what I know um well that’s sick um I’m to see the episode and uh I guess we’ll end there that’s the pod