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Kind: captions Language: en I’m gonna blow your mind ready so Scotland you know Scotland you’ve heard of that country Scotland right you’ve heard of that place familiar land of kilts and sheeps but also redheads but okay and redheads but it’s also home to one of the coolest SAS businesses that I’ve ever heard of so it’s called petroleum exports uh they it’s known as uh pet tax [Music] let’s jump in we got a bunch of stuff today we’re gonna do what’s called a business breakdown duel Sean and I you know is that a western duel I guess is uh we both did a business breakdown and we didn’t know that the other one was gonna do it and so now we’re gonna compare I’m gonna go first which gives you the advantage because the person who goes last always usually wins in rap battles because that’s it’s always like when you you know like when I do you know when they do the Applause or like person a person B if person B always wins I get to hear you say your thing and then I can make fun of what you said yeah so anyway you’re gonna you get the advantage but that’s okay so I’ll go first okay but before I go first I’ve got to give a shout out to Andrew Lynch from net income um it’s a sub stack it’s where I I found uh this particular business and I’m just and I’m stealing uh a lot of his numbers but of kilts and sheeps but also I think they’re sheeps there I don’t actually know that’s how little I know about Scotland but also redheads but okay and redheads but it’s also home to one of the coolest SAS businesses that I’ve ever heard of so it’s called petroleum exports uh they it’s known as uh pet tax pad tax it’s a challenging name I know and it’s a highly technical specialist software crucial for oil and gas operations you can go to p-e-t-e-x.com to check it out so pull that up but pet pet tax it’s a highly technical specialist software that’s the backbone of some of the most important operations in the oil and gas industry and it sounds boring and that’s because it is however they last year they made 78 million pounds in Revenue which is about 100 million dollars USD and on that 100 million dollars in Revenue about 67 million of it was profit and of that of that profit they basically took out all the money so they paid a dividend of 41 million pounds which is about 60 million dollars and that was paid to the owner and it wasn’t even retained to the company which means for every dollar they took about 52 dollars went directly to the or 52 cents went directly to the owner’s pocket now here’s the cool part none of this is rumors this isn’t hearsay I’m not like telling you I heard a story because in the UK If you’re a privately held company that hits a certain threshold in Revenue you have to submit your reports and you could just log in it’s called company’s house you can just go there and you can log in you can see all this information and so I went and looked at many many many years of their data and I’m going to tell you a story about how this company came to be so it was started by this guy name we’re gonna call him Aid his name’s Abe his name he’s he’s a Muslim guy very very very challenging uh first and last name can you see his name can you tell me how to pronounce that do you know how to pronounce that is the first name and the last name it’s very challenging there’s a d and there’s a j together that’s a very challenging okay so you are calling him ape or he goes by Abe I’m calling him Abe his last name is if you look at it if it meant many Muslim AES but uh we’re gonna call him his last name has a d and a j next to each other I don’t even know how to pronounce that sound so I’m sorry it’s a very challenging name to pronounce so he started the company in 1990 it was based in Al Aberdeen Scotland which is basically like a hub for oil industry it’s kind of like similar to what Houston in America is and the company originally served as a petroleum consultant for in uh Consultants to the control petroleum industry as well as retailers and they would create these mathematical models to help uh people in the in the oil and gas industry manage their projects and so today they’ve kind of pivoted from Consulting to providing software they only have 420 customers and their core product is composed of complex products which are complex features that with descriptions like a multi-phase network modeling and optimization and thorough Dynamics fluid characterization package so pretty complicated stuff so as I said they started as a Consulting business and they did have done 78 million pounds in Revenue last year which is about 100 million USD 58 million USD in profit and 50 million in dividends meaning the company doesn’t require much capital x so they made all this profit in most all of it 58 million profit 50 million came out of the business and went directly to the owner’s pockets and he’s been doing this for years and years and years their business biggest expense is employees so because they’re based in the UK they pay UK software engineer salaries which are lower than the US making their average all-in cost per each employee of which they have 86 of them only a hundred and one thousand pounds per year so the which means that they are doing 911 pounds 900 911 000 pounds in Revenue per employee so 9x 9x basically Roi per person that they hired so yeah this company absolutely kills it and I want to tell you when I was analyzing this company and um if you look up Andrew Lynch his sub stack he does a really good job of explaining the technical details of the company I want to explain some of the entrepreneurial takeaways that I had so if you go to the top uh link Sean in our doc um or at the beginning of the story you’ll see the sub stack where you can it’s his Andrew Lynch has a thing called net income and that’s where I discovered this so I want to tell you some of my takeaways takeaway one Focus plus time that’s what this guy did so everyone talks about Focus but what does Focus means you basically in my opinion need to focus enough to turn your idea into a machine and then after that I think you can deviate some attention away from that if you want but the company needs focus and that Focus took takes time so I went back and I looked at a lot of their uh revenue and so did Andrew so if you scroll down Sean you’ll see a graph of the revenue and what you’ll notice is that it took them 15 years to get to 10 million dollars in Revenue 10 million pounds I’m going to call it dollars so 10 million dollars in revenue and I know a lot of people I think maybe you have done this with one of your businesses got to close to 10 million Revenue in like 1.5 or one or two years actually and so 15 years particularly in like the tech Internet space it feels horribly long but I think that’s okay that’s the right feeling and so what I try to do something I’ve been thinking about for a while is I ask myself in 10 or 20 years will I be happy if I started this today and that’s a really good quote but that answer is incredibly murky more often than not sometimes it’s like a I think yes it’s a very murky thing and there’s this famous story about Jeff Bezos when he started Amazon he has this thing called the regret minimalization framework where he says this story about he’s like well even though he had this good job I decided to start Amazon because in 80 years when I meet or when I’m 80 years old will I be proud that I started it today the answer was yes but in that same story he also said that he thought at most Amazon could make is a hundred million dollars a year so he he’s not like he had the full picture so it was like yeah I think this can work and so I went and talked to darmesh who’s the founder of dharmesha the founder of HubSpot I also talked to Kip who was the CMO and Kip joined HubSpot in year five I asked Kip how big do you think HubSpot could be when he joined you know how big did he think so HubSpot today is worth 25 billion dollars when I asked him he said I thought he could hit a billion dollars in valuation there’s a little bit of a stretch but I thought we could do a billion dollars uh in valuation meaning like what’s that 80 million in Revenue I don’t know how that’s something like that and then I asked darmesh I go how big do you think he could get he goes really I didn’t have any idea but I knew that all I wanted was a thousand customers who would each pay 250 which by the way this is only three million dollars a year in revenue and I thought that would be a pretty cool Milestone and so the reason isn’t all we or the outcome isn’t always clear of is this worth it now the reason this is important is because the biggest pain in business is not just failing but it’s failing slowly and spending like a decade working on something and wasting your the most non-renewable resource there is time wasting that time and I mean it’s significantly worse I think than losing millions of dollars a year in one or two years and then quitting and so that’s where the it’s kind of an art it’s a skill it’s an intuition it’s Talent that’s where all this stuff comes into place so tactically what does this mean Ben Franklin said a small leak will stake a great ship Warren Buffett said so you find yourself in a chronically leaky boat energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks so the point being only work on [ ] as long as your boat ain’t leaking as long as you don’t got any holes in that boat but here’s the thing every early Safe Company yeah everything’s leaky at first so I went back to darmesh and back to kit and I go guys tell me about this HubSpot right now your guys’s net revenue retention I don’t know what it is exactly but I think it’s like a hundred and five percent meaning for every dollar that someone spends at HubSpot now the next year they’re gonna spend a dollar and five cents and he said uh and Chip and uh Kip they said a few things so I’m gonna mix it up a little bit but uh or I’m gonna kind of interchange with what they said but I believe it was Kip who said our churn at first was terrible it was beyond bad at one point we were losing 30 percent of customers on an annual base on an annual basis I then asked uh darmesh I go was your guys’s churn really that bad he goes yeah it was definitely really bad it took about five years in order to like get it to where it was a good place and I said well what did you do to fix that and he said our goal was not to make customers happy was to make happy customers meaning everything from our branding pitch Marketing sales service everything should be thought out in a process where the outcome was a happy customer and that meant it was everyone’s job marketing needs to be reaching better fit customers who are less likely to churn sales needed not sales shouldn’t oversell and make sure they only qualify that these customers will likely succeed which helps reduce the churn products needs to make sure they don’t just build new features but build a feature that reduces insurance and they have to make these features make sure these features get adopted and churn is churn reduction is a team sport you also have to remember there’s a power law which is 90 of stickiness will be driven by 10 of the product and Company features and not to add 100 features and instead just find ones that work and double down on those so the point being All Ships are leaky at first but hopefully you can figure out a way to do it and last but not least my takeaway ten dollars a month it’s rarely gonna feed a bunch of hungry mouths so our listeners including you and I sometimes I do this as well I had a 25 a month product a lot of times what we do is we look for arbitrages or we look for like small little hacks that’s neat that’s all cool and all every once in a while it gives you that dopamine hit but this company the reason I like it is you know how much they charge per year 300 000 a year for a license to their company they only have 450 clients and Andrew in his sub stack article he said something great he goes imagine you’re running an oil rig that extracts hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil per day Brent crude is currently uh crude is currently trading at 75 per barrel so every 100 Barrel is 75 7 500 in Revenue your it guy comes up to you and says boss attacks just raise their prices by 10 I think we could save three thousand dollars annually if we switch software providers to another thorough Dynamic fluid characterization package instead you tell them to piss off don’t touch a thing just make sure nothing breaks it means like three thousand dollars there’s nothing in the grand scheme of a huge Capital intense business so they put their price up 10 and everyone moves moves on and goes on before because look it helps them solve their business so or it helps them solve problems in their business it makes your business better so this is my breakdown of this company I love it I love this company I love these Scottish guys Jonathan’s giving me a clap what do you think about this one yeah Jonathan you like that one oh yeah that was you you kind of touched it all you got the opening story hit with the impact and then the three big takeaways at the end and that like q a with Kiff and darmesh was a nice touch yeah that was a good touch I like how you brought that in the um there was a a bit of a spelling and pronunciation challenge at the beginning but you overcame that and I’m proud of you for doing that you know what I say I so I went to speech class when I was a kid by the way and I always used to tell people I just got a big tongue my tongue’s real thick I got a thick tongue it’s something I’m big tongued yeah I got I got fat Thug a pet see I give it a fat tongue it’s like a it’s like a it’s like a snail in there it’s like a slug I got a slug of a tongue I got molasses in my mouth I don’t know what to say it’s hard for me to say some words sometimes it’s like the further away from St Louis a person gets or a company gets like the harder it is to explain them um that’s interesting you know I I guess two days on mine right now I bet there’s opportunity to create like another pedex basically which is uh with machine learning and AI you could go into these kind of like Old School Big dollar type companies and be like hey look we have the ability to process your data or to give you insights that’s going to save you money like yeah 10 efficiency gain 20 efficiency gains and I bet that these opportunities you know have existed but the the more powerful mlna I get the more those opportunities open up and the bottleneck is people who even understand what problems exist inside of uh you know some Shale gas company or inside of Exxon Mobil and then being able to go sell into them there was a guy who I met very early on when I was doing my startup I didn’t really know any other entrepreneurs but there’s one guy who also went to Duke and I wonder what happened to him I haven’t kept in touch but I think his name was Evan Anderson and he was building a company that was um selling to I was called osberg yeah this is exactly right let’s see what happened with this company um so it was selling to um companies that were in Oklahoma so I was like well you moved to Oklahoma and he was like yeah this is what our customers are and I was like who’s your customers and it was like all the oil and gas companies that uh that are in America and what he was doing at that time was basically quote-unquote Big Data uh big data for oil and gas and I was like that’s a great idea I’m looking at it now he’s still there CEO 14 years later so I’ve got this company’s been been pretty successful and I was like I would check in with him and be like you know what’s the challenge and at this time I’m working on a sushi restaurant chain and he’s like you know I’ll spend six months just courting the right guy the right suit at this uh at this company I gotta take him to uh you know a football game I gotta invite his family over we got to get to know him we got to get him comfortable with this uh you know the software but once I get once I close that deal these deals are going to be worth millions and millions of dollars over time they’re never going to rip us out once we get in and so um I I’m curious how this company is doing today but I know that you know 15 years ago I was like this is a great idea and I just I I intuitively knew it because I was like the same effort it’s taking me to do this silly sushi restaurant thing he’s spending the same amount of time he’s just working for a much bigger prize with much more defensibility and a much clearer value where he’s going into an industry that’s like never had uh you know doesn’t have this this sort of software capability he’s like I will sit here until I understand your problems and then I will build solutions for this and I just love that approach I think that’s a like if people are willing to kind of like eat [ ] and go outside of their like kind of comfort zone of problem areas they understand there’s pretty big opportunities yeah and it’s cool did you see this graph from Andrew Lynch of this company’s Revenue yeah it’s just like a perfect hockey stick but over a long period of time over a really long period of time I mean that’s something you want to talk about like this 15 years to get to 10 million you know respect for continuing and making it all work that’s not for me what’s the boys quote uh why is everyone make fun of getting rich quick it’s the best way to get rich and I’m going to tell you about a company in a second here that said in their first week they did a million dollars of sales and never went less than that from there and you think that that’s not true correct I think it’s I think it’s a lie but I love a good lie I love a good life tell me about this give me a good underestimate how much of uh startup stories are just lies okay so here’s my here’s my big business breakdown I see your duel and I uh I raise you um In My Head by the way we were doing an old-fashioned Western duel but now I decided it’s American Gladiators and your laser non-blazer and we’re going at it on the chest but so this morning I was thinking about who’s lying out there who’s lying men’s problems that way okay so most people have heard apparently you got a little you got a little situation is that the issue no no no that’s not how we got actually here’s the here’s the actual train of thought I was thinking about um these T-Shirt Company a little segue here to tell you how my brain works so the thing about these t-shirt companies I don’t know if you’ve seen this but basically in the last kind of like four years there’s been a bunch of companies start started that succeeded that did the most obvious thing and I’ve seen this happen again and again that there’s these windows of time where Big Ideas are just hidden in plain sight and so basically in the last four years a bunch of companies have started to do such a simple thing they just sell basic plain men’s t-shirts and these were the Big d2c Ideas so like anybody who wanted to do e-commerce or Drop Shipping or d2c build a brand the opportunity was sitting right in front of everybody it was just men’s t-shirts so you have Cuts fresh clean tees true classic tees built Basics all of these companies that in the last sort of four year window have built 100 million dollar plus companies so some of them do about 50 million a year in sales some of them do 100 or 150 million dollars a year in sales so this kind of range but to go in like a three year period to get to 150 million in sales that’s what true classic tees did is just bananas to be honest and so um I’ll tell you the uh the numbers for True classic so year one uh let’s see where the video so I think go okay you’re one 15 million you’re two 90 million you’re three 150 million in top line revenue and um and they did it all through Facebook ads selling plain you know white black blue men’s t-shirts and that’s the same thing I think fresh clean teas is somewhere like 50 million north of 50 million in Revenue uh I think Cuts is over 100 million it’s crazy that these companies all scaled so fast doing this such an obvious thing where is the there was no massive Innovation and so I was thinking about this I was like man there’s these windows of time and then I thought about what what are other windows that I’ve seen like this and I stayed in the e-commerce world and I thought about oh back in 2017 both Roman and hymns launched doing basically the same thing and they launched within like a couple months of each other basically people had the same idea at the same time and both of them became Billion Dollar Plus companies doing the same thing what they did was you know I guess the summary is they took advantage of a uh what do we call it an inflection uh Sam blows this regulation inflection in this case well this was a regulation inflection this is a regulatory inflection and so what happened was um there was proven market demand for drugs like Viagra uh or Propecia or Rogaine and so hair loss or erectile dysfunction there was a proven like business there and they started like in the early 90s and so by 2017 the patents expired for those and when the patents expired have you ever taken a Viagra or anything like that haven’t have you no but if someone if someone told me it’s awesome I would but I’ve never thought it’s awesome go so so the patents expired and basically now there was like generic versions of these and so what and at the same time there’s another regulatory inflection which was that telemedicine was becoming more and more things were getting opened up for telemedicine meaning you could prescribe drugs without going to the doctor so drugs without a doctor was the key kind of like just you know frame uh framework for for this type of business and so they both launch and the hymns guy says this guy Andrew uh dude him he goes we launched and in our first week we did a million dollars of sales and we’ve never done less than a million since then I was like wow that is incredible and it is true that him scaled really quickly so their revenue a week so he said they never did he said they never did less than a million a week after watching yes oh is that and I was like that’s insane I was thinking about that because I was like I’ve launched many things the first week is you’re talking about patching holes on a boat that’s how the first week is it’s like you don’t even have inventory you don’t have you don’t have a million dollars of inventory you don’t have like to do a million dollars how much are you spending an ad did you just blast like half a million dollars of ads in your first week Facebook ads doesn’t even let you ramp up that quickly so I was a little bit suspicious of this and uh the revenue did ramp quickly so they launched the very end of 2017 2018 the full year they did 27 million dollars in Revenue with 27 million dollars in ad spend so they spent 100 of Revenue on ads so they burned a bunch of money uh 2019 they did they went from 27 million to 83 million and they spent 50 million on ads 2020 they were forecasting about 140 million and then I have the actual so check out this Revenue girl it’s pretty insane 2021 they did 270. 2022 they did 540. 2023 they’re projecting to finish at 800 million in Revenue so this is a pretty crazy run in uh what six years to ramp up to 800 million and and revenue so they can get a billion in Revenue in seven years exactly they’re burning money this whole time even now even at 500 million last year they only have two percent even a margin and that’s the adjusted ebitda the rule they actually burn 10 million but the the adjusted is that they you know they they made a a small two percent uh margin and so super Capital intensive they raised like 200 something million dollars before going public and they didn’t going public another to 300 million dollars went into the business I think and so it’s taken them a lot of capital to get here so I would say three things Amazing Story just in general like props to them for pulling this off like they built this out of an incubator I ran an incubator for six years and couldn’t get one thing to even 10 million in revenue and they this was like a big hit that came out of a a incubator which is very very rare Roman which now rebranded wrote also came out of an incubator at the same time so they’re the two biggest incubator hits were sort of the these two companies that did the same thing essentially one did it for hair so I think uh hymns did it for hair hair loss and Road did it for Ed and then they both just added the other product as they went um so impressive in that way the revenue growth impressive the ad spend and the money burned incredible I now question is this even a good business so like they basically showed that their their CAC so their cost to acquire customers uh is really high like their cost to acquire customers is basically what do I have it here it’s like 100 plus dollars to acquire a customer let me grab it um I think it’s like 150 on average to to acquire a customer the lowest it’s been is like a hundred dollars to acquire a customer and um they basically think they think they 3x their money in three years which is actually not very good for Ecom like my Ecom business which is nowhere near the scale of this is way more efficient than this like they’re trying to pay back essentially you know a little over a year uh you know we’re trying to pay back in in two months and so like you know it’s amazing what just pure aggression uh they approach this business with they were just like yeah we’re gonna scale this thing and we’re gonna pour a bunch of money in we’re gonna burn a bunch of money but we’re gonna ramp up and like we’re gonna try to thread the needle to get this business to work when it’s at the billions in in scale and um they kind of pulled it off because they went public with vs back and they got liquid before the business really worked this week I had to chop down a tree at my farm and I didn’t have an ax so I just used a sledgehammer instead and so my wife was like oh do you you chopped down that tree I was like I I gotta smashed it down and uh I just sludged him hammered it down and that’s kind of what these guys did they just kind of sledgehammered their way into into the market have you seen this guy that’s on Tick Tock that just chops the tree and all like it gets like a million views and it’s all there’s like hundreds of thousands of women commenting like like just like gasp like I need him yeah shirtless no is he shirtless and hot is he shirtless and he just chops the tree perfectly like it’s like it takes them like 10 Strokes to crack down this giant tree is that like a innuendo for sex or something literally like I’m watching this thing and I’m like I don’t even know why I’m watching this this is like just from a purely objective level this is very attractive I’m just gonna say this this is hat he just wears like suspenders he looks like a lumberjack but he’s like gq’d out so he’s he’s like a groomed lumberjack that’s super like with a CrossFit body that chops down trees instead of going to the gym since he’s incredible so um you’re kind of like that you’re like that but like you know [Laughter] so that’s basically what these guys did they kind of brute force their way but why don’t you think this is a good business well I think that the I mean just the amount of capital it took to get to this business value so it’s worth 1.8 billion on paper um and they’ve taken 500 million to get here so like if you just zoom out it’s we three and a half extra money like that’s not the most impressive thing but like when you frame it the other way which is like we’re gonna hit a billion dollars in sales and we’ve done this in seven years and like you know we’ve built the largest telemedicine Health company for men and women and you could frame it one way or you could just kind of look at another it’s like now here’s a business where if I have to pay 150 to acquire a customer and give takes two years to pay it back if if that we’ll see how it all projects out it’s super sensitive to like you know they pour so much money into marketing and what if you know Facebook costs change like you know How’s that gonna affect them like there’s all these factors I’m not saying it’s a bad business but like compared to that pedex company that does 100 million in sales and dividends out 50 million to the owner I know which business I would want to own right uh the business that didn’t need us back to to succeed as the business I would want to own the one that’s dividending out like a mega yacht every year to this guy like that’s sick and it has like you know one one millionth of the notoriety of a brand like it some others you say about the uh yeah tell me the the other interesting so so other cool things so so there’s some notable things for the research I want to put these on the screen so I put the put the images on screen on YouTube if you’re listening to the podcast just pause go to YouTube because you got to see these so if you go back through their history uh first take a look at this thing I have on page uh what is this page like three or something of this the p l do you see this p l um this was in their S1 to go public it’s literally it just says Revenue 27. gross profit eight adjusted Ebina minus 68. that’s the p l they shared in their investor presentation I was like what kind of a kindergarten level of detail is this what kind of crayon p l are you doing like this is [ ] ridiculous and I was like this is why spax this is why spax went to [ ] because it’s like half the p l is just projections what you can’t do if you go public the traditional way but in spax you can do these like forward-looking projections and that’s how all these guys got away with it it’s like we got a shitty business now but like five years from now we’re crushing and that’s like you know they were able to tell that story whereas you can’t make forward-looking statements in the traditional way of going public and then I was like this is some absolute basic beginner looking thing I I was just stunned that this this is like on the SEC website that’s a that’s an embarrassment uh all right second thing you can go to their website and you can find in the web archive their landing page from the beginning so check this out this was their first landing page this is like the month that they launched it just said guy against staggering odds two things happen one the universe two you you let’s walk at our full height honor our forebearers have a smile and for God’s sakes floss shop now and it just go it just Scrolls down and it just says sex this is this is simple you need erections when you want them and not when it’s convenient for your penis and there’s an eggplant Emoji it says shop sex and there was another one for hair like that was like the same it was like she needs to run her fingers through your hair a lot and then it just says our best sellers and there’s just a very basic bottle that says finasteride and that’s like the the generic name for Propecia or like you know for like the hair uh male pattern baldness like drug or whatever and they were just selling it for 28 and then there was they only had two skews finasteride and vitamins not even like vitamin C this is yes but here’s some vitamins and so incredible to go see I love love love looking at successful businesses early landing pages just to see like how did they get their business out the door one thing that’s interesting is from the beginning they actually had a pretty strong like branding and brand identity so if you go do this with like Snapchat or Uber the first websites are just absolutely fugly like um I have this blog post on the internet that’s called like you just search Sean Prairie uh early startup landing pages medium um 10th okay it’s called 10 throwback startup home pages um when did you write that article I wrote this in 2015. so this was one month what month June oh you beat me on October 12 2015 I wrote an article that said proof that your favorite startup started out awful and it’s a list of 10 landing pages yeah to each other then so uh you can go look at airbnbs it’s like literally plain black and white and it’s just says forget hotels stay with a local Uber it looks like a you know janky thing everyone’s private driver but it looks like a old school car service Snapchat it’s got one of these like yellow bubbles that’s like the like buy now you know like you know half buy two get one and it just says free download inside and it says introducing Snapchat real-time picture chatting for iPhone and it’s two girls and they’re like bikinis and it just says seven seconds on the screen and like you know a self-destructing photo so you can see what early startup landing pages look like what’s interesting that was unique in the hymns case is that they actually had their branding from day one which I think was a smart move by them and they specifically branded it the opposite colors as every other male Wellness product so every other Wellness product is essentially blue and they were like no we’ll go all neutral color scheme lowercase like lowercase font for the for the brand name and we’re gonna make it subtle because there’s a stigma and a taboo around this it’s not something you want to brag about we don’t want bold we want like we want to be able to give you this package in a discrete way and you know and I know and that’s all who needs to know and I thought that was like a smart thing for them to get right from day one all their models are like it’s usually like a cool looking black dude or like a racially ambiguous guy it’s like some it’s like oh I I can see myself in you I’m a young cool guy with like I wear like cool jeans as well were your parents all of the Power Rangers why are you also like that’s what happened here it’s usually like a like a pretty racially ambiguous good-looking guy with nice teeth yeah yeah the tea throw is on point versus like a Viagra is always like Brett Favre looking guy and then this was one of their early um early ads so it’s just uh it just says get hard or get your money back and it’s just a guy holding a tiny pill um and it’s and then what ethnicity is that guy oh dude his hand is like a gradient in Photoshop it’s like all all colors are easy here uh so it says eggplant Emoji rise to the occasion for Less so one thing that they did really well was they figured out how do you advertise on Facebook with a taboo product so they would do stuff like they would show a picture of a cactus that was limp and then another and it would be like with hymns you don’t have this problem so like how do you and so they were very clever with their marketing they also did stuff where they would create ad inventory so they would go to um like stadiums and they’d be like all right a bunch of guys who are in our demographic are at the stadium we could either spend like four hundred thousand dollars to get on the Jumbotron and uh along with like you know BMW and a bunch of other big brands or they went to the stadium facility manager and they were like hey how much for the urinal space you’re like what it’s like yeah we want to put a little ad on the urinal and we’ll give you guys like you know X price to be in every urinal and they’re like yeah dude we got like 30 seconds of guys focused time while they’re touching their thing like you know looking at our ad this is actually kind of perfect and so they would create new ad inventory that didn’t even exist before just trying to figure out how do we spend 100 million dollars in a way that’s going to be as efficient as possible so they’re you know really just like very they’re like a very Advanced marketing agency essentially worst have you heard of HubSpot see most trms are a cobble together mess but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous I think I love our new CRM our software is the best HubSpot grow better and another thing that they did I did a big breakdown on this one time was so if you Google Viagra alternative or cheap Viagra or buy Viagra online they show up number one and what they did was they actually sponsored a ton of twitch people and somehow that like got their links out there and they like they got tons and tons of backlinks really early on so hymns.com ranked quite high so they were able to get like it was I think if you I think it’s Viagra alternative might be like their word I forget which it’s one of those pages and that’s where they got most of the revenue early on oh wow that’s interesting you know there’s another cool thing I’ll put this graphic on the stream um it’s this graphic from have you ever read Sakura by the way I don’t know if that’s how you say it yeah yeah like the research thing I like it yeah they’re pretty cool uh I don’t think people know about them but it’s uh like really good research s-a-c-r-a yeah so they had done a thing and they had this great graphic which is basically they were like telemedicine was like this like Trend like this like there’s a lot of opportunity in telemedicine right now and they just showed this picture of like a guy and a girl and it’s a diagram and basically it’s like you could look from like head to toe literally from head to toe and you just go down the body you’re like okay hair there’s hymns there’s keeps there’s Roman okay then you go down to like eyes and it’s like there’s a prescription contact Hubble um you know it was it was a DVC startup doing prescription contacts through a phone app instead of going to the doctor then you go to their bicep it’s like trt uh there’s a bunch of trt companies like hone health and others and then you’re like and then you go to uh you know their abs like weight loss you go to the crotch it’s like here’s the erectile dysfunction you go down to the toes like here’s toe fungus he’s got a little putt next to him it’s like hey here’s pop it’s it’s insurance for your pet so you have like instead of going to the vet for everything you can use pop and um and so it’s like uh and then they do the same thing for women and you could just literally see like if you’ve seen those diagrams that were like there was a big opportunity to unbundle Craigslist and they took Craigslist homepage and they showed out every little section of Craigslist became its own billion dollar startup they did the same thing to your body every part of your body became a billion dollar startup essentially from one d2c wellness company and uh or or multiple in some in some areas so from Skin Care all of their logos look exactly the same lowercase font pastel colors hymns I think it’s oh by the way one one other little observation a lot of these DDC successes came from a certain type of founder not all of them but many from NBA found like Founders who went to like Business Schools which is funny because like in the startup World Business Schools kind of like our easy punching bag because you’re like punching up at the institution it’s easy to make fun of them like bro you don’t learn business from school you learn business by doing business and that’s how I feel to be honest with you so I’m like that’s true but there is something interesting that a lot of DDC companies Blue Apron Birchbox Stitch fix Warby Parker um Rent the Runway hellofresh um and then this you know this guy who did uh uh hymns he went to Wharton as well so it’s like a lot of these big I think there was something about the type of person who would do well in a business school and the types of things you learn in business school where you like do this Market landscape you like figure out the opportunities you’re like okay good I just need to be like good in marketing and then good at operations in order to like like put cash in here and get thing out it’s not like very software based it’s not in it you don’t have to be the the innovator who’s like you know the one inventor of something I think it lended itself to that type of entrepreneur which I found pretty interesting too well here’s what our listeners need to do they need to either probably in the YouTube comments they need to let us know I actually want to do who on The Duel I actually want them to I want to know if they think Kansas is a good business but also who won the duel so you’ll have to vote by saying our names um we’ll include a Spotify poll as well so you can just vote in the app and we’ll do a Spotify poll as well if some guy in the YouTube channel said um um who’s this blonde host and why is he so annoying so just for the record the blonde annoying guy that’s what someone said in the comment the the blonde annoying guy that was Sam I went first and Sean is the brown less annoying guy he went second for him so let us know who’s the winner here of the of this duel um I’m very eager to hear uh what people gonna say I know which one I would rather own but I think they’re both quite interesting for sure for sure you saw this post by Mark Zuckerberg that he did the Murph I tweeted out the picture of it and it got like five million views it kind of took off and I don’t know so do you know what the Murph is I had never heard of the Murph until I saw this and then I was like I must do the Murph it’s named after lieutenant Murphy I believe context clues leads me to believe that he died uh in the military and uh his favorite workout I believe it’s one mile run 300 squats a hundred push-ups and 100 pull-ups and then I’m one mile run all while wearing a 20 pound weighted vest is that the workout that’s exactly right run a mile 100 pull-ups 200 push-ups 300 squats run another mile while wait while wearing a 20 pound vest and uh Zuck basically takes a like bro gym shot I gotta use the Blackberry for this he’s got the phone down here not smiling got the mouth open just and just snaps it with himself drenched in sweat and he’s like just did the Murph he’s like me and my daughters dude he’s got a picture of his daughters doing like push-ups and he goes I this year I got it done in 39 minutes and 58 seconds and I was like I read that and I was like hmm that sounds like really fast if he had just said I did 100 pull-ups today I would have been like man what a day fantastic forget all the rest I was already impressed by 100 Pull-Ups to say he got that done weighted Pull-Ups so say you got that done in 39 minutes I was like that sounds ridiculously fast and sure enough all the comments were like that’s an insane time for the Murph have you ever done this workout I haven’t but the world record holder of the Murph is this guy named Hunter McIntyre who’s dm’d me on Twitter and Instagram and I’ve talked to because I like him a lot or I followed him and I feel like I like him is that what fit guys do they just DM each other yeah yeah yeah yeah it’s like a club you know like once you can see the sixth app you start smelling each other yeah I’m one of us good to see you and he DN me he listens to the pot he’s the world record holder and I think his world record is like 34 minutes and zuck’s time was 39 minutes which means he would have gotten like 10th or 15th Place at there’s like a Murph gains or something like that I mean I had so many thoughts brushed through my head when I saw this first I saw 39 minutes and I thought I’ve taken shits longer than that like that’s a that’s a crazy fast time then I thought I don’t think I could even do a Murph in an infinite amount of time I don’t think in my life I have done a total of two miles running 100 pull-ups 200 push-ups and 300 air squats like with a 20 pound vest I have just never done it period uh so my time is currently 35 years then I thought this mother this guy has he decided yo you know what I’ll just become one of the richest people in the world one of the most powerful people in the world and the one of the fittest guys in the world like he’s basically wholesome top point one percent wealth top point one percent you know intelligence top point one percent power and now he’s top Point top one point one percent Chad also I am all before the age of 40. yeah exactly and he’s got two kids or something like that I’m like I mean David Goggins should go to sleep listening to Mark Zuckerberg videos for motivation this guy is incredible I went I bought more stock and I bought a plain gray you know cookie cutter t-shirt in his honor I was like this is I’m gonna retire this is the rafters of my office I’m gonna put it I’m gonna hang a gray shirt just to honor this man he can get so much [ ] and man he’s really turned his like public Persona around like do you remember he was he was the biggest dork like not just like oh when he was young like recently he was the biggest dork is that he tried to do something cool like he would do when he did that like Hydro foiling thing and he painted his fight his face white like a geisha and like it’s like man this guy’s like and hit American fight it was just like it was like oh man like you know what keep all your money I don’t want to be here and now he’s like you know just got off work did a quick Jiu Jitsu tournament came back you know [ ] deleted Snapchat off the Earth I’m like wow this guy’s just this guy’s making power moves all day he’s incredible he’s he’s a very inspirational dude he’s done it Scandal free so Zuck is only 37 now you know probably fifth or sixth is he’s only 37. something like that I mean he’s still in his 30s how old is he 39 39. so he so basically he uh been married to the same woman been with her since college has two kids seems like his family life on on paper seems awesome there was a time when like the most scandalous thing that he did was he had a video where he talked about smoking meats and every year he sets you remember that because every year he has goals no no that’s not the scandalous thing that was just like hilarious that he was a robot trying to be like hello humans I am doing a barbecue with I have flesh on a grill with fire and I was like bro this is the robot the most scandalous thing he did was when he was in college and the the his aim messages got leaked that was like you know a real wonderful day in my household as I like was like Hey cancel Netflix I have my entertainment for the week I’m reading all of Mark Zuckerberg’s aim messages for the next week that and it wasn’t even that big of a deal what he said was pretty on par with an 18 year old 19 year old person like well maybe it was one part was a little bit like uh is this what we want like this guy’s this is the guy running Facebook where he was like he’s like yeah he’s like he’s like yeah just tell me if you want anyone’s like you know name do you know date of birth you know address whatever he’s like these dumb [ ] just just trust me they just put everything in the system and so yeah like something a 19 year old kid who invented this stuff would say yeah I would say that was the last time I was relatable with Mark Zuckerberg ever since then he’s created a gap and he’s outpaced me from there every year he sets these goals one year it was he only wants to eat food that he killed or grew and I think he did it and then another year he was like I’m gonna learn Mandarin because I want Facebook to come to China and I think his wife is Chinese and he was like I’m Gonna Learn man and then he goes and he gives a talk I think he does it gives a talk to a Chinese Universe he gave me an interview they go he they fly him out there they’re like thank you so much Mark Zuckerberg for coming we are so happy to have you and he’s like he’s like yo well Mitchell and he just starts speaking Chinese and they’re like blown away it’s like really great Amanda where he’s basically fluent and so the guy kills it man he does great and like when he did the E4 so he got into e-foiling which is basically surfboarding without a wave and he is doing it with an American flag and he has too much sunscreen on his face that’s my guy a guy whose biggest like flaw is that he’s goofy it’s not the I know my guy and then now that I said you’re zagging the other way you’re saying Zuck bad move unrelatable too too good no vulnerability no no relatability now he’s no longer Girl Next Door hot now he’s just super model hot it sucks the best man he just he you know our friend Nikita beer uh has this joke where he said something like I would never I forget why he says this but he says never ever ever bet against Zuck how he’s just a complete killer and he is wrong sometimes but not in the grand scheme and this is for the proof well the funny thing is people will hate this segment because I think it’s popular to really hate Mark Zuckerberg because they hate Facebook I think because they’re like my data or like the Russians hacked the election I’m not even sure I’m not even sure what the what the exact reason is for hating Zuckerberg at this point I just gotta say like this is I mean he he is inspiring in that he is excellent and if you appreciate Excellence that is kind of inspiring it’s kind of like people who hate LeBron it’s like okay I get it you don’t have to like the guy but uh I mean you gotta respect that puts a perspective on this guy’s name is wrong either by the way like people played sometimes yeah exactly yeah it might yeah he switched teams when he was a free agent um my real estate agent told me the story that she was driving my she’s like that’s Mark Zuckerberg’s house in the in the mission kind of like near Dolores Park type of area and I was like he lives here and I was like that’s not like I thought he’d live in some private gated community and she was like well let me think he has like many houses but this is one this is one and this is like his main one for a while and she’s like and he made it private I said what do you mean I don’t see any fence and she’s like no he bought the houses next door like he just bought all the houses in the area so that like you know whatever and so he he knocked on someone’s door himself so somebody opened the door and it was Mark Zuckerberg outside and he’s like hey you know I love this house and I would you sell it to me and they’re like no I mean it’s not for sale we love this house we’re so close to the park you know my commute it’s only seven miles he’s like I’ll give you 10 million dollars and you’re like okay here’s the keys basically he bought the house for 10 million it was probably a two million dollar house uh and the house next like the house is nearby two and a half three billion dollars and he paid ten and just got the house right away dude that person who sold their house to him would be the best dinner guest imagine that story we’d like to have you on air if that’s you we would like to have you come tell that story because uh obviously I’m reenacting what I was told by a real estate agent I don’t know if that’s that’s true or that’s [ ] so yeah Zuck amazing Let’s uh wrap up with this last thing this Nike thing did you watch this movie uh air yeah I did I thought it was awesome it was pretty sweet right like uh not the best movie but like a just a solid base hit on a Thursday night a Friday night you know you just need something that’s I don’t want to sit here and browse Netflix for the perfect thing all right I’m just gonna go on I think it’s on Amazon and I’m just gonna go watch air and like this just watch the story of how Nike signed Michael Jordan they made Phil Knight look like a doofus yeah why did they do that I didn’t understand that they uh well he does like appearance-wise look like a doofus but they also made him act like a doofus yeah which I don’t think he was like that when I read true dog I didn’t get that idea he he he he he’s more I think uh they made him look like when he wrote his own Memoir he made himself sound cool well I’ve read a lot I’ve read a lot about him he he they just kind of made him look like a like a like a ditzy person like an idiot yeah he’s not an idiot um but the guy they feature so a couple things so so first uh anything stand out from the movie air but then I have I want to go deep on this guy Sonny Vaccaro because I think he’s actually more interesting who was that the main character I don’t remember his name that’s that’s the main character so that’s Matt Damon uh Matt Damon in the movie but um you know in in Nike in the air movie I thought one one is something I didn’t know was they’re they’re talking about just do it which is the just do it’s the slogan that you know everybody knows it’s the Nike kind of like iconic slogan and they were talking about like at the time even people internally were like just do it like they got that from the Ad Agency Wyden Kennedy and they’re like I don’t know what what does that what does that mean do you like it it’s like I don’t know it’s okay I guess they weren’t like yes this is this is gonna be this like marketing Masterpiece and they go what does that even mean and they go dude it’s from an inmate on death row who was about to be assassin about to be executed and they were like any last words and he goes just do it so that became the Nike slogan which is uh honestly kind of Genius so I want to talk about this guy Sonny Vaccaro because he’s kind of a gangster that I’ve seen for many many years in the basketball scene and the movie was about him and he this guy’s pretty fascinating so what uh in the movie he’s famous because he’s working at Nike at the time Nike is the last player it’s just a running shoe company and they’re the smaller shoe company uh Adidas is This Global brand that’s crushing it they own most of the sneaker Market uh I believe it’s pronounced Adidas yeah Adidas which has its own interesting story then Reebok is like number two and Nike’s like a distant three but they were doing like 27 million a year in sales through their running shoot so good but not like nowhere near the kind of top tier uh of shoe companies and so Sunny meets Phil Knight and he’s like hey I got an idea for a basketball shoe I want to create like a basketball Division like you guys are all running shoes which is great basketball shoes and he’s like okay like come on in and you get this little basketball Department like go ahead try to make it work and the movie is all about like one breakthrough thing he did which was they had a tiny budget and in the 1984 draft they decided to sponsor Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan was not interested in Nike he was going to go with uh I think Adidas or somebody like that and um he was known as a hot Prospect he’s like the number three pick and they were like well we still want and and Sonny was convinced we need Michael Jordan and so the movie’s about them trying to go get Michael Jordan on Borden and what ended up what they what the pitch was was basically they put her entire Budget on one guy instead of spreading across multiple players he relentlessly pursued Jordan and like met his mom and like just like drove out there to North Carolina to meet them and try to build a relationship and then they didn’t even showed Jordan’s face in the movie which actually was pretty cool it was basically the whole relationship was how do I impress his mom because I know his mom will have my back she’s making the decisions and so they were like well um we’re gonna pitch him on his own signature shoe from day one and we’re gonna name it after him um so it’ll be the Air Jordan it’ll be a whole product line named after him and he ended up negotiating a royalty on every pair of Jordans sold and that’s how Michael Jordan became a billionaire not through basketball but through his shoes so that’s the movie part okay cool this guy Sonny actually did a bunch of other interesting things that I thought were pretty cool so as a marketer I just respect this guy’s hustle so here’s some of the things he did to make Nike win um he created so he was like all right we gotta create like um like a kid’s strategy it’s like how do we get him while they’re young and so he created a high school All-American Game so he was like he called it the uh the Dapper band round ball classic he goes throughout the country he’s like I’m inviting you to participate you’re going to compete against you know the the 12 best players um we’re gonna have 20 best players in the country you’re invited to come do this thing in in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia or some [ ] like that and it was like uh and so he flies them out there and he puts this thing together now he’s got the players so then he goes and tells all the college coaches hey if you’re scouting you need to come to this round ball class you can see all the best high school players at once and so then college coaches start coming so now players are like oh if I want to get seen by college coaches I gotta get to the high school All-American Game so he just like created through Brute Force like a conference essentially that would uh bring together the kind of the core supply and demand and then he could find at that age the best young players and so he that’s how he found Kobe Bryant that’s how he found LeBron James they were part of his high school All-American things in his Camp so the second thing he did was he created a summer camp for only the best players called ABCD any brand this is when he was with Adidas so this guy worked for Nike then he worked for Adidas then he worked for Reebok so he just this guy was just a hired assassin that went from company to company and would just try to get them to win in their Market using whatever advantages they had and so when Nike needed something he was like all right you need to get them while they’re young we’re gonna do this camp but also what we’re going to do is we need to get college players wearing our stuff they all wear Adidas and uh because it’s the most popular brand so that’s just what they choose by default or they choose Converse and so he’s like you know why don’t we um you can’t pay College athletes but nobody say anything about coaches and so he just started he would go to the coaches and he’d be like hey I’m gonna give you 10 grand and here’s 26 pairs of shoes give them out oh they happen to be the sizes of like most of your guys uh they don’t have to wear them you get the 10 grand either way but we sure do hope you would uh you know you would go ahead and uh and um you know encourage them to wear these shoes and so he went to Jim beehive and he went to like you know all the top college coaches and he basically bribed them and it was like in this gray area where it was allowed and in one year he just traveled like he would just fly City to City he would go to the campus he would make the coach and offer and at the time they were buying this equipment for their program they’re like our kids need equipment so we got to buy this the stuff so we turn to cost into revenue for them and gave them free stuff and sure enough all of them started wearing Nikes for free so all of a sudden now Nike’s being worn by all the best college players and it’s on TV and in one year he just did a land grab across the country before the other companies could could react he got all of them and I thought this was just like a genius uh genus strategy he started how far you can go with Brute Force this was a sledgehammer this was a sledgehammer and you can get pretty far with the sledgehammer then then he did another thing he sued the NCAA so he went to this guy Edo Bannon and he was like hey we should sue the NCAA they’re using your name your face you’re like this to market the tournament and all the stuff and you’re getting nothing from it and now college players can get paid through this nil rule this name and like this thing and it’s because he won the case with that uh lawsuit uh against the NCAA that was like you know it happened the lawsuit happened the last time about five years or so then the rule came into effect like a year ago or something and so um so I thought that was awesome uh there were some great quotes about him some guy goes uh when Sonny dies he’s gonna sneak his way into heaven and uh and when he gets there the first thing he’s gonna do is he’s gonna look for a six nine kid to make a deal with like he’s like and the other thing they said is there’s only one man on Earth who could tell you who the best sixth grade basketball player in the country is and it’s sunny Vaccaro and I just love that this guy just like owned his Niche and just absolutely like went balls to the wall and really built like I don’t know tens of billions of value at least inside of Nike Plus Adidas plus Reebok with these athletes and he would have also gotten so he signed Jordan he sang he he got he poached Kobe away from Adidas and that he would have got LeBron too when he was at Adidas and LeBron was ready to sign he goes we need to offer him 10 million a year for 10 years 100 million dollar contract to this 18 year old kid and rabon’s ready to sign and then Adidas gave him the 10 million but they changed the structure last minute they got a little cold feet and they’re like well we don’t know if this kid’s gonna work out why don’t we make it part of an incentive based and so they offered him seven million guaranteed and 3 million a year of incentives and LeBron turned it down ends up going Nike never looked back and like just a huge blunder like basically this guy’s whole life he was fighting bureaucracy inside companies and then doing like black market and gray hat [ ] in the like you know in the streets and every NBA player is like no sonny their parents know Sunny because this guy was just working the streets and like there are certain companies that have had this Tinder kind of had this with um what’s her name the Whitney wolf who started bumble she was kind of doing this from college campus to college campus like going into the sorority houses and the Frat houses and just brute force onboarding all the guys and girls in one campus so that Tinder was useful and then throwing parties and doing stuff like that and like you need these people these are like game-changing people for your company I remember when coinbase went public uh Brian Armstrong did this long thread he did something you never see somebody do which was company goes public they usually just say generic stuff he actually talked about like what led coinbase to be successful and he called out one guy by name that wasn’t his co-founder wasn’t his main investor it was just an employee and this guy Dan Romero and he’s like and you know it’s basically special thanks to Dan Romero who like just kind of like Brute Force built our relationships with banks and he he basically got them their relationships with banking partners and like I think maybe some stuff overseas um and it was just kind of like one of those things like dude I don’t know how we’re gonna do this I don’t know Dan that’s your mission send them on a mission to go do that and Dan basically joined coinbase coinbase as an employee ended up making like 100 million dollars plus through this process um and I knew this guy I met him in college he was in my case yeah didn’t he uh didn’t you like used to make fun of him call him with dweeb I didn’t make fun of him but in my head I did he was we took a class called computers again I was going through campus looking for the easiest sounding classes I took getting rich I was one class I took another computers and in computers they were talking about like that’s an exclusive class it’s computers and they were just talking about like the internet and like internet I remember like to talk about net neutrality a ton I was like I don’t know what the hell these guys are talking about like I couldn’t give less of a [ ] about this and there was one guy that every class had like strong opinions was super informed I was like man who is this like teacher’s pet that’s just like is he trying to impress him I was like no I don’t even think he’s trying to impress him I think he actually is just nerdy about this stuff he just listened [ ] just loves the internet this guy like wants to make out with the internet I just remember sitting in the back of class like I was like thank you for talking so much Dan Romero because I don’t have to say a word in this class and um it’s sort of like you know Revenge of the Nerds in a way it’s like jokes on you like this guy’s passion and enthusiasm about the internet and technology is what led him early into crypto was led him to pick coinbase and ended up you know like his passion for that led him to be a key person there this guy made 100 million hundreds of millions of dollars probably is retired and uh and got to do what he loved the whole time and so like you know I I used to make fun of people who were like you know overly enthusiastic and now I preached that you need like enthusiasm is massively underrated and more people dude and he’s got a super handsome uh headshot now in LinkedIn Dan Romero does because you can afford a whole you know glow up if you uh if you get that coinbase IPO and early Bitcoin money he’s got great hair this guy’s definitely takes him he’s a good looking guy power himself and he just bought uh 13 million dollars worth of a 13 million dollar property in Venice and another one in Park City Dan Juan yeah down one for sure and you can tell that he’s ripped too like this guy’s definitely has abs Dan won good job Dan I’m just like you just Google him and see his face you know this guy’s fit no nfts uh just lift up your shirt six inches I’ll tell you qualify so um dude this guy’s Sunny sounds awesome I I did see the movie and they made him look like a guy who could just put up with a whole lot of pain that’s what they made him look like um they made him look like a guy who like he would just get [ __ ] on constantly and he always pulled through that’s what they made him look like uh and they also made him look exhausted and terribly unhealthy which is the price it’s kind of true yeah they made him look horrible and if you look at photos of him granted he’s like looks like he’s he was born in 1938 I think so like you know you are what you are at that point but like he he definitely looks like he smoked a lot of cigarettes that sounds very old is that I looked him up on Wikipedia I think it’s 38. he’s 83. wow yeah so he you know he’s alive and and by the way the guy’s name is actually John Paul Vincent Vaccaro change is sunny God damn I like you have to have a nickname that everybody in your town knows you by that’s like to me that’s like one of the great honors of life it’s like yeah his name’s his name’s Sean but everybody called him Sonny whole life everybody called him sunny it’s like that’s just like such a cool I wish I had a calling card like that that’s an Italian thing that’s like I feel like all the there’s always a sunny in the mafia movies that I watch yeah he operates like a monster for sure I like this this is a good find I saw that movie and I thought I don’t want that guy’s job it sounded like an exhausting exhausted existence it sounded very challenging but yeah I did like the movie they made him they made Phil Knight look a little goofy which I’m a big Phil Knight fan so it kind of hurt my feelings but uh no I thought it was a good movie and this is a good find all right that’s it that’s the Pod let us know who won this the The Duel the annoying blonde hair guy who went first or the less annoying Brown guy who went second that’s the pot foreign