Episode of My First Million with Sam Parr and Shaan Puri.
Transcript
Note: This transcript was auto-generated from YouTube captions. It may contain errors and lacks speaker identification. A full Gemini audio transcript will replace this.
Kind: captions Language: en i knew he wanted me out he wanted me out from before i even got there like from the moment the news came out that i was signing he was trying to get me to not even have day one at espn and so just being 100 honest i’m a petty guy there was a part of me that almost wanted to stay in spite of him i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be what i want to i put my law in it like no days off on the road let’s travel never looking back we’re live now so we we always hit recording right now oh wow geez so hitting me with the uh the blindsided live i like it well it said that’s how the real pros do it i don’t know how you guys do it on tv but the real pros just go live abruptly in midtown i love it i love it i’m always ready so we um do we got introduced to a friend my uh our buddy john who’s apparently your closest buddy and um i like i don’t know what you know about us and we could tell you about it in a minute but basically like we’re pretty popular in the business world and let’s start with that yeah pretty big deal anthony pettis is a fan i know that yes we’re not nearly as big of a deal as you are in your world but like you know we’re on the cusp of being pretty big and uh we’ve talked to a bunch of amazing people we’ve talked to titans of industry we’ve talked to billionaires we’ve talked to people who have tens of thousands employees people who products you use whatever i have never been as starstruck or as nervous to talk to someone else no i swear to god ariel i’ve been listening to you for for maybe 10 years uh i’ve never been this nervous okay um and so for the audience at home uh the only reason why sam is saying this right now is because i think you recorded this after the uh the explanation of what happened last time we were supposed to actually do this a month ago and he stood me up so he’s trying to butter me up because he still feels bad he was in some villa in hawaii i’m on the east coast freezing my butt off here and he didn’t wake up in time and now he’s trying to tell me that he uh is star struck in front of me get out of here with this no i i i i i kept as the kids say this is full cap right here all right there’s no sam doesn’t know he doesn’t know cap he doesn’t know this sort of modern lingo well i i’ve been i’ve been dead honest uh like we’ve talked to a lot of wonderful amazing people i’ve never been this nervous because you you’re you don’t take a lot of [ ] you uh you you call people out you know the whole thing with brendan schaub is amazing um the whole giovanni the whole thug knows i know about it all ceo pf that’s amazing that is incredible like every one of your guests takes their interviews from the phone while driving i’m shocked you’re not doing that i know no every time like they go to me uh you know like it’s all right now let’s join uh so and so thank you for joining us blah blah and and then they go to the shot and they’re in the car i’m like ah for [ ] sake you’re in the car really why did you tell me that this was a good time if you’re in the car i don’t know there’s just something less intimate about the car maybe for other people it’s more intimate but i don’t know when you’re at home you’re comfortable you’ve got your little water bottle or coffee next to you it just seems like you’re going to get better stuff but um all that aside thank you for having me in fact a very good friend of mine not named john beer named kevin wang of montreal give him a shout out he currently lives in new york as well i’ve known him for quite some time when i think you sent out the initial tweet that i would be on he within seconds sent me the screen grab and said this is my favorite podcast i can’t believe you’re gonna be on it uh this is incredible tell me more all this stuff and more so a lot of people are apparently excited i appreciate you guys having me no hard feelings it took me a couple days to get over being stood up uh you know i had to rearrange my whole schedule and cancel on some people and things like that but with uh with great pleasure i return to do this for real good and and uh we’re gonna do an intro ahead of this so we don’t need to tell talk too much about your credentials but basically for the people who aren’t listening ariel you’ve been you’ve been in this people who for the people who aren’t listening i don’t know i don’t think they care sorry see i told you i’m nervous for the people who who don’t follow you you’re basically you’ve been in the game since 06 you worked for vox you worked for espn you worked for a ton of different uh amazing publications but you you started as a reporter at this point i would say you’re just as much of a character of the mma scene ufc scene as dana as some of the fighters don’t tell dana that well i i you’re definitely you’re you know you’re as much of the story sometimes as a lot of the stuff going on which is awesome and you’ve built this amazingly large and loyal audience uh we’re a business podcast so we could talk a little bit about mma but what’s interesting is that you’ve recently kind of gone uh semi-independent so you work with bt sports you work with spotify you work with sub stack although you don’t work with them but you know what i mean you have a sub stack and what you’re doing with journalism and an entrepreneur in terms of entrepreneur being an entrepreneur is pretty amazing um so you kind of like have this independent uh business where i think it’s kind of interesting and i think if you are a young person wanting to get into business journalism business media what you are doing and also what some of the other guys are doing bisping chael sonnen i think that is the the perfect example of what you can become so that’s why we asked you to come on well i appreciate that and i could tell you how i uh arrived to this point in my life if you’d like um i kind of feel like i’m an entrepreneur at heart but i say that with the caveat that i’m a horrible business person when i think of things like finances stocks uh investments like it truly makes my head hurt my older brother mark is uh someone who’s very good at this stuff my dad is very good at this stuff my brother works in uh the financial industry and all this i was always more of the sports fan the creative the dreamer that type of person however i consider myself an entrepreneur in the sense that i have always tried to do things solo on my own bet on myself when i went to syracuse university as a youngster i was the only one of my friends who left montreal to go um study in the united states in canada where i’m from in montreal no one leaves they all just go to either mcgill or concordia and so i felt like i was kind of you know building my own thing then when i got there i uh i create you know i i went to the the traditional so syracuse university in case you don’t know is the number one school for at least in my opinion to develop sports broadcasters and they’ve developed the likes of you know the likes of bob costas went there and marv albert and mike tarico i mean the list is just incredible the names of the people who uh you know went to study at syracuse over the years and they all go to this one station waer to hone their craft and develop a voice and all that stuff and i went there and i noticed uh that everyone kind of wanted to be the same person and i never wanted to follow anyone and so i left that station after one semester and i went to like the rinky dink third tier student station um in the student center and i did my own combat sports show every saturday morning over there and so again i was kind of just doing things on my own and trying to build out my own thing fast forward a long time i get to spike tv in i hate it after a week i start my own website and that’s how i get into mma journalism um and i start interviewing fighters and i give myself six months to get noticed i don’t get paid for any of this i was just kind of using this as an opportunity to show people what i can do fast forward to now and in february i’m starting to realize that my time at espn is probably coming to an end and i’m starting to think to myself okay what do i want to do what would make me happy what’s the future here and what i came uh to realize was i can almost create this menu this puzzle as i called it where i’m doing this here this here this here that here and i call myself independent helwani independent helwani and yes i’m working with other people but i feel very independent because i was able to go out and carve up my duties um some of it’s my own my own youtube channel the substance things like that and some of it is i consider partnering with other people and uh it’s uh it’s been an incredible few months since i was able to leave i was terrified of leaving it initially because espn was my dream i actually had to talk to a therapist about that and we can get into that as well because i didn’t feel i felt like a failure if i left after three years because this was my dream this was the mountaintop but i was very unhappy and i realized that i had to go back to that entrepreneurial spirit and start building out my own things and start doing what made me happy and be around people who make me happy and people who support you don’t want to stab you in the back and all this stuff and so yeah i’m very very happy now now i’m working with vox my old friends at vox media with the ringer spotify with sub stack with bt sport i did a thing for showtime recently bet mgm and uh it’s great i’ve never been busier but i’ve never been happier as well and talk about that that move so you’re at espn the dream is realized because you’re kind of like you’re like me i don’t know if you remember there was a show back in the day about becoming a sports center anchor do you ever watch this show oh yeah it was like it was like a reality show and it was only on for like two seasons or something like that but it was great i think anybody who grew up kind of with sportscenter on loop uh you know there was something really aspirational about espn you get there and was it that and so this can happen that happens with all kinds of entrepreneurs you’ll sell your company and then you’ll feel like kind of numb slash board like wait was this it this is the thing i was working for this whole time um so was it that the dream really wasn’t a dream or was it that oh it came to an end and i got to figure out where to from here so what was the espn side like did the mountaintop feel like you thought it would feel or what was that like yeah so that’s a great question i always wanted to work at espn that was sort of the end goal i remember being a young kid going on vacation to the united states with my family we’d get to the hotel and my brothers and i would watch sportscenter on loop remember in the mornings they would have like one episode that they would tape and they would just repeat it over and over again and i would repeat it and i was just so taken by the magic of sports television and the characters and the highlights and all this stuff and i’ll be honest when i got there right off the bat uh i was disappointed the first few months at espn were very hard for me uh because i had this vision in my mind of what it would be like and the resources and the commitment to you know excellent content and coverage and attention to detail and all this stuff and it honestly it just wasn’t what i expected now over time we kind of found our groove and i got to do a lot of fun things and i’ll be honest in the back of my mind i was like i don’t know how long i’m going to last here partly because of the fit but also partly because of the relationship with the ufc and not being able to cover the sport the way i want to cover the sport and i tried to check off as many boxes as possible and so hosting a radio show i wanted to do that i checked that off doing an e60 profile on my good friend daniel cormier i checked that off doing nba sidelines i checked that off otl outside the lines checked it out sportscenter checked it out so i was trying to do as much as possible because i knew at some point this was not i was not going to be a 25-year lifer i came to that conclusion pretty early on one of those guys who stays at espn for all those years and uh you know it was tough you know i’m going from doing a show in a beautiful studio that i helped um design in in a in in new york city to a very small studio uh with not the same resources to then going to bristol connecticut twice a week driving four hours back and forth mondays and wednesdays to bristol’s it’s a four-hour back and forth so two hours and two hours in the same day twice a week and uh you know sometimes it’s you know it’s your exhaust i’m doing a show that’s three four hours long i’m mentally tired after this show and i have to get back in my car and drive two hours often in the winter it’s pitch black like this wasn’t very fun um and yet here i am you know it’s the dream job it’s espn and then on top of that it’s all the other drama that you have to deal with behind the scenes so yeah i mean i came to the conclusion around a year ago well not a year ago now like last summer okay you know what do you want to do what would make you happy um would leaving be the right move would that make you happy and you know i there was a part of you know i knew honestly i knew there were people that probably wanted me to leave you know what i’m talking about people in the ufc probably wanted me to leave if you’re not listening basically you’ve had and you just actually did a wonderful youtube yesterday where you explained the background but basically you’ve had an issue or dana white the the president of ufc has had an issue with you for a variety of reasons whether he claims you’re too negative he says you’ve you’ve uh leaked some information there’s always been some tension there all of it’s wrong uh he couldn’t be more wrong but you know he has his uh he has his business and his motives and uh and and it would be it would be great if we could meet in the middle like we once did but you know uh that’s neither here nor there at this point um so yes i knew he wanted me out he wanted me out in spite of him and i didn’t want them to win i didn’t want them to win because i knew that they would celebrate if i left in fact when i announced that i was leaving espn i got a text message from an unknown number that’s not on my phone saying i told you we’d get you out of espn bye-bye now i don’t know who sent me that text message i have my theories but like i so i needed to go talk to someone to figure out how to get over that to not stay at a job in spite of someone which is absolutely ludicrous to do what makes me happy to to have fulfillment in my heart um you know to wake up and be excited to be around people that make you you know happy and support you and all that stuff i had to get over that in my brain and thankfully i did um and so it took it took some time i don’t have any regrets do you tell the therapist about petty helwani about helwani do they does the therapist support all these characters that you have in your arsenal sometimes she’s like okay what is the end goal here what are you trying to accomplish are you bringing more stress um but she really helped me realize what is important and what makes me happy and not sticking around to you know stick it to people and things like that and as i said on my show on wednesday i don’t know if i end up at this point if uh if i don’t talk to a therapist and i was always someone who was afraid of talking to a therapist because i thought that it made me weak i thought that it it it would be um a sign of weakness that i was you know um you know needing help and all this stuff and and honestly uh i’m so happy and thankful that i got to that point it was a weird way to get there but you know i’m happy that i was able to talk to someone who helped me figure things out therapy is like exercise i’m like look even if you look skinny you should still exercise you know even if you’re like in an okay place you should still go and do stuff and particularly if you’re fat you should exercise if you’re in a bad mental spot you should definitely go and do therapy so i don’t think you exercise my peloton bike helped me a lot i got one of those i mean a lot of things helped me clear my head and i don’t have any regrets i don’t even have uh one thing that i had to talk out was i didn’t want to have ill feelings towards espn i love sports i was just watching my knicks beat the celtics in an incredible double overtime thriller last night on espn i didn’t want to be the guy who couldn’t watch espn who couldn’t go on the app who felt some sort of way about this company that meant so much to me and live with that animosity and i was afraid that that would happen i don’t have any of it i don’t have any animosity towards them the people there i don’t have any animosity towards anyone there to be honest because they they kept their word they paid me till the very end they stayed true to the contract they even offered me a new contract unlike what other people are trying to say about me being fired i was never fired they offered me a contract and i turned it down and i met some legend mike breen doris burke i met absolute legends of the tv business there i will never forget my time and i’m very thankful for the time but three years was enough it was time to move on can i ask you i want to ask you two questions the the second one is actually going to be about dana white and um i want to ask you about what attributes do you think he he has that have made ufc wonderful and and and that’s what i’ve asked people about you i asked john go man ariel’s amazing what drives them so it’s always fun to ask other people about like the the the people they work with but the first question is the the current setup right now with your business what do you think is going to be the biggest revenue driver is substack do you think gonna drive you know this paid newsletter business is that going to drive a significant amount do you think it’s most going to come from bt sport from youtube ads what how’s your your business set up and where’s your head at in terms of where the opportunity is right now uh my my biggest revenue driver if if you want to put in those terms is uh is vox media they’re they’re paying me the most um and that was important to me because the mma hour was a show that i created and put a lot of time and effort and uh you know just i mean everything i poured everything into that show from 2009 all the way to 2018 and it was heartbreaking to see it end even though i was going to my dream job um that show just meant so much to me and i think it meant a lot to a lot of people and so that’s the biggest one and that’s a do you regard that as a youtube channel or or youtube and the and the the podcast does very well it’s on apple it’s on spotify it’s on google it’s on stitcher all those places as well and you own it i do not own it no i don’t own it they pay me to do that show uh so that’s what’s interesting about my situation is like some of the stuff i own some of the stuff i don’t own but everyone’s playing nicely together in this sandbox and i’m very appreciative it took some time to kind of figure out all the pieces that was the most interesting part of this like back in in february so when i came to the conclusion that i was gonna go and uh leave espn and try to do things here and there obviously you have oh i’d like to do this and that like some people call it a chinese menu you know you kind of build your out your own thing but then the actual dance of getting everyone to play nice and be on board with all these little different things that i’m doing was the most interesting part of the whole process and i really lucked out and i found all these people like people who are okay with me having my own youtube channel that’s completely mine and the sub stack but also doing something for the ringer spotify and also doing something for vox and b so um it’s just it’s just been a really interesting um exercise in look i i like my friend uh pat mcafee here i am dropping uh names um he’s like oh well you’re not totally independent you don’t own everything i’m like okay fine if you want to get you know uh into that whole semantics game fine i don’t own everything but there’s an independent spirit to all of this where at the end of the day i feel like i’m partnering with other people as opposed to being a full-time employee with anyone i’m not i have an llc now and uh i’m able to pick and choose what i want to do um and so that’s that’s really important but to answer your question the biggest deal that i have at the moment is my deal with vox media do you think long term that stays true or do you think because some things are are some things pay off better immediately and then some things you say okay if i build i don’t know the newsletter if i build the the podcast or the ring or stuff if i build that up three years from now this picture might look a little different or do you you said you don’t really think too much about business do you not even care about that you just do your thing and see what happens are you trying to get me to reveal my five year plan my business plan right here that’s exactly what i’m trying to do i’m looking for 20 30 ariel where’s 20 30 ariel doing like what what who’s the guy who started the ringer what’s his name again bill simmons yeah like you know he was in a similar position as you sold the ringer probably netted 150 200 million dollars when he did that i mean is that going to happen to to you that would be nice um i don’t know you know right now obviously i’m i’m very happy with the situation i’m really excited and it’s kind of the thing that’s flying under the radar at the moment which i’m totally okay with that uh what i’m doing on my own youtube channel is giving me as i like to say a lot of nachas nachas is a yiddish word which means kind of like fulfillment and joy in my heart because uh every week for now every thursday i am posting an interview with someone outside of the mma world because i’ve been itching for a very long time and that was part of the reason why i went to espn to show people that i’m more than just an mma guy that i can interview other athletes authors musicians comedians anyone it doesn’t matter if you’re in the sports world if you’re an actor if you’re a holocaust survivor if you’re interesting i want to talk to you because the thing that i derive the most enjoyment from are the interviews i love talking to people i could do a hunt i mean i do a four-hour show twice a week now and uh i feel like i can do it every day it’s just a lot of uh fun for me and so i’ve i started that around a month and a half or so ago and uh it’s just my own little thing it’s it’s me and two producers an audio guy video guy and we’re posting these interviews and i don’t honestly care at this moment if a million people watch these interviews or three people watch the interviews for for me now i’m doing them to uh you know fulfill you know this this little you know passion of mine to talk to other people to scratch that itch but also to eventually show people the right kind of people um that i could do this that i could be much more than just an mma guy and it’s actually the exact same thought process that i had when i got into all of this back in 2007 in fact uh this past tuesday october 19th marked the 14-year anniversary of me launching my own site jerrypark.com it’s still up um i was at spike tv in september of 2007 i got a job working at spike tv and spike tv was the home of the ufc and i was working in tv production i thought okay this is the best place for me tv production ufc uh they’re the home of the ufc it’s perfect after a week there i walked into my boss’s office and uh i quit and i said uh i i don’t really think this is the right fit for me i’m not i really like they didn’t do anything creative i’m a creative guy i like to think of ideas come up with things and they were just kind of the middle man the ufc was producing all the content so i walked into his office i said i’m really sorry thank you for the opportunity but i don’t think this is the right fit and i’m the kind of guy who um when he’s 85 years old i i don’t want to wake up and say i could have done this i should have done this i should have zigged when i zagged all that stuff he was very upset he said you’re going to regret this for the rest of your life this is unprofessional no one’s ever done this blah blah blah and they made me stick around for a month and a half in my cubicle until they found someone to replace me and that was the crossroads of my life in fact our mutual friend john was a part of this process where you know i would we would go for lunch during this process i’m not doing anything and i’m telling him i’m going to start my own website and i’m going to start interviewing fighters because i really want to go into mma journalism i really want to show people that i could be the howard cosell the the max kellerman the whatever of mma and so i started to reach out to fighters via myspace and every morning i would post an interview with a fighter and i didn’t care if five people looked at the interviews or 500 000. i just wanted to use that to show people that i could do that 14 years later i’m doing the same thing on my youtube page and now i want to build this and grow it um and and use it as an opportunity to show people but for now it’s just like giving me so much joy to go back to those early days and just talk to people about things and then now i’m like last week i interviewed marty fish the former tennis player who’s been you know very open with his battles with anxiety and friends of mine who have never listened to my work watched my work ever who don’t care about mma are like wow dude you’re a really good interviewer i’m like yeah i’ve been doing this for 14 years at this point but it’s it’s opening me up to a whole new audience and i’m very excited about that we have uh a couple of kind of like just go-to phrases or principles when it comes to business one of them is bet on yourself and uh and i think you so so some people are like you know if some people are listening to this they’re not super into mma i think one of the things they could pull out is your bet on yourself mentality especially when it’s not easy right like uh betting on yourself sometimes as an entrepreneur it’s kind of obvious you don’t really have a job you you know by default you better on yourself you had quote unquote good jobs at each of these stops and then you said look this isn’t it i’m going to bet on myself and i’m going to go independent i’m going to do my thing so you have a strong dose of bed on yourself even another one that sam sam uh coined which is niches get riches which is that i know you’re a basketball fan but you didn’t go into the more established field that one that had a career track that you could tell your mom look there’s other people who have made it in this field i could be the next whatever uh in basketball you went for mma which is today fringe let alone back in you know 2006 or whatever like nobody was really there was no blueprint or there was no like um success stories doing what you were doing i don’t think at that time like you are the kind of the success story of that niche and so i want to hear kind of how you decided to bet on that even though you have other interests you have other sports that you’re interested in as well um and then the last one is there’s this great phrase which is uh you know you want to do the work that feels like that looks like work to others but it feels like play to you so like if i was going to interview somebody four hours a day i would be exhausted and i think you get your pick up steam by energy by your hour three you’re like you’re just hitting your groove and it gives you energy so i think that’s another example of where you you kind of live one of these principles that we talk about but tell me about the niche thing oh why did you see that that spoke to my heart that spoke to my heart that’s a great line uh niches get riches because i couldn’t agree with you more um when i got to syracuse for the first time my life like when i went to syracuse i wanted to be the next costas marv albert basketball baseball football traditional guy hello welcome to abc sports i’m maria helwani world series super bowl and for the first time my life i realized wow there’s a lot of people in this world who are my age who have the exact same dream as me who are a little more polished who have nicer hair who don’t have as big of a nose and maybe don’t have such a foreign name their name is john smith and they just kind of fit that bob costas mold and i never i never liked to follow you know the pack and so i remember telling my parents in september of 2001 there’s this sport called mixed martial arts there’s this organization called the ufc at this point it’s not even eight years old and i think it’s going to be mainstream and i think in 10 years there’s going to be some executive in some office some older guy who’s like what is this crazy cage fighting sport i know nothing about it but apparently it’s very popular who’s the guy who’s the voice who’s the howard cosell of mma and i want to be that guy and amazingly literally 10 years later august of 2011 i was hired by fox and that was like my first big you know mainstream gig um and so it kind of worked out in that regard but i i say this to young people all the time when they reach out to me and they send me you know oh i want to do this i want to do that i want to be you know stephen a smith and all this stuff in this day and age you don’t want to be a generalist you you you you’re a fan of the new york knicks you’re a fan of the new york knickerbockers i’m not gonna go tune in to the radio espn radio now i’m not gonna go in my car tune in and say oh i hope you guys talk about the nick celtics game last night i’m gonna go on my podcast app and i’m going to go to the new york knicks podcast as niche as it gets to hear an hour breakdown of last night’s game if i’m a big pro wrestling fan i’m going to go to my pro wrestling podcast and listen to mma podcasts listen business podcast the days of sitting in your car and hoping that they talk about something or listening to people just talk about god knows what those days are over and so it is actually a lot better in my opinion to go into a niche to be the niche guy as opposed to being the generals yeah there’s a couple guys who will make it steven and those guys but for the most part in my world it’s way better to be the niche guy and i try to explain that and and within the niche have your own niche as well and so like my thing interviews i tell other people like find your thing there was a young i always bring up mike bond he works for mma junkie and he’s a lot younger than i am his niche that he used to get in the door were stats and factoids so he would have all these stats about all the fighters great these days maybe it’s bedding betting is super hot right now use that as your niche to get in the door so yes i i couldn’t agree more with that mindset um and and i would urge anyone in this day and a this day and age of a la carte you know everything is out of the car right podcast streaming all that the more niche the better you’ll have way more success rather than being just some guy like those days 50 years ago when you were a columnist for a newspaper those days are over how um how what what what size or how big is your your audience i mean i know the youtube videos get like thirty thousand a hundred thousand per per clip per video how what do you say the number is of your audience and what advice do you have you could use us for example i mean we’re smaller than you um of like of of your tips for getting noticed and being great at building this this empire this is gonna sound uh don’t tell me good content no no no no it’s gonna sound wack but i really don’t know the size i mean i see the numbers on youtube i never asked for the podcast numbers i don’t want to know and it’s actually one thing that really bothered me at espn like three weeks into my time there we sat down and started like breaking down the numbers and the listening rate and and the completion rate and all this stuff like i don’t want to know this like it’s hard enough i by the way in in the uh what is it now 12 years of me doing this like hosting this type of weekly show and all this stuff shows i’ve never had a person book the guest for me i i book every single guest every single name that you see on my show on on wednesday rose and jan behoevic and fedor i book those people myself i do not have a booker what do you just dm them on twitter i mean how do you dm fedor now i have you know i have their numbers uh you know it and i know what everyone likes like i know there’s some people who respond quicker to dms there are some people who respond quicker to whatsapp there are some people who run quicker to imessage uh i never email anyone uh i mean you email a fighter that’s like throwing you know a toothpick into the ocean there’s no chance you’re getting a message back but uh you know i’m just i’m kind of relentless like that and i’m obsessive like that and i think that i would drive someone crazy if i said hey i want to get uh rose number eunice on my show and then i would probably ask them a million times did she respond did she respond did she respond so i’d rather just put that on myself now it’s probably the worst part of the job and it makes me uh you know very stressed out but it’s just the way i like to do things so that brings enough stress now to know you know completion rate and downloads and subs yeah but you must have an idea you have a million followers on twitter i think bt sport has 1.2 million subscribers on youtube ish um your videos ballpark 50 000 to 100 000 views per maybe i don’t know what your podcast downloads are but like do you know no one no one has talked to me now okay i’ll tell you like at espn uh when my show with dc towards the end we were getting i think on the podcast only now this is one little sticking point that i have so they would sit down and they’d be like okay the podcast with dc is getting around 90 000 downloads uh an episode like all right that’s pretty good 90 000 an episode once a week one hour a week but here’s the problem they were comparing us to other podcast only shows let’s say the low post podcast the basketball podcast hosted by the great zak low but that’s an audio only podcast we have the youtube show as well so our audience is splintered so if you want to know about you know our total audience you got to count those numbers as well and in addition you want to get into dude i’ve never listened i listen to you every single time i’ve never listened to you on the podcast app so that’s yeah so that’s the thing like uh and it would always annoy me that we were just focused what about the youtube numbers like to me i’m more of a visual guy and i care more about that like the the the audio podcast is almost like gravy for me if you’re in your car or whatever but i’m i’m more inclined to push the video so um i would guess if we’re gonna use those numbers that’s from a few uh months ago and i don’t feel like we’ve really missed a beat on mma fighting since i returned there from the video you know we’re talking like 200 250 but then then there’s the breakout stuff right like because then each each interview gets made into its own separate clip so i don’t know man what you’re trying to stress me out here i’m just trying to live my life and no you’re getting confused you gave an answer so you think uh 200 200k ish i’ll tell you why i think something like that matters what are we at 50 or i think we’re at 60 000 an episode if you add the youtube and the pod so i think that’s amazing like like i think i’ve been studying a bunch of different people from uh you know like there’s there’s there’s you in let’s say mma and then there’s uh you know i don’t know if you follow cryptocurrency with this guy pomp and he’s like the bitcoin guy and then there’s tim ferriss and he’s like you know the four-hour workweek guy there’s all these people who build their brands they’re what i call you know solopreneurs or solo media people and and you could look at it i did a comparison once of of rogan’s show versus you know the the the like the tonight show and on every metric it’s like you know not even close you know how many viewers do you get how much money do you bring in how many employees do you have and on every metric rogan just like like beats down the tonight show and uh but people would still sort of from a prestige point of view they think one is a television show where you wear a fancy suit and you have a monologue and a fake audience clapping and the other one is like you know you just got done with a workout you sit down in this little studio and you do a podcast what the heck’s a podcast so people haven’t really caught up on this model um and then i sort of broke down the businesses of each i said oh okay interesting so what it looks like to me is you get this number that i call your true fans which is basically like the number of people who really trust you and like let’s say that’s like a quarter million people for you or something like that maybe it’s 250 000 people that really trust you i’ll follow you i don’t really care if you’re on espn or mma fighting or you’re with bt sport i just know ariel helwani and i’ll just kind of follow you wherever you go it’s like a fan of lebron james they’re not a cleveland cavs fan they’re a lebron fan and now they’re all lakers fans and so then i sort of studied the model and i said okay it looks like between two to four percent of your audience will sort of buy anything you do like they’ll pay for your paid newsletter they’ll buy your your your hoodies um you know you tell them hey i’m ariel i’ve raised a venture capital fund i’m investing in startups now they’ll invest in your fund they’ll do everything and so now there’s all these new models before it used to be you know you get famous and you write a book you spend a couple years you write a book and that’s how you that’s how you monetize your audience and then people started doing courses and other other different things like that and i’ve been studying all the different models one of the guys i got friendly with was matthew berry at espn because he has a niche which is fantasy football and he was doing this you know before fantasy was sexy he was like convincing yahoo and others hey go into fantasy i’m telling you like guys are nuts about this and he became the fantasy guy and he’s kind of like you he’s got a little bit of he’s got a cushy gig with espn but he’s got a bit of independence he’s got his own like text message like list and he’s got his own fantasy football thing oh does he do that i didn’t know he i didn’t know he uh he had he’s got a couple carve outs i actually asked espn in our negotiations i was like well what if i do this like if i just do the dc show and the chill show but then i do this other stuff my own and uh i don’t know it just uh because it’s not easy i think he has a couple of carve outs there for him work for him for him and he got it kind of grandfathered in basically he’s like yeah i get to keep deciding i don’t make too big a fuss but if you go look at his twitter bio what does he link to it’s like i think he links to one of his properties basically as like one of his things so i’ve been studying this model i would say for you i i i think you’re in a great spot and you know if you just sort of think about like the menu of ways that how does somebody who’s got a trusted loyal audience they’ve built over 10 years monetized there’s all these creative ways beyond beyond you know ads or sponsors on my on my show i don’t know if you care about that stuff but i know i do care about it you know it’s interesting like the sub stack thing is super interesting because i would say of the you know the three main things that i do like obviously there’s uh video audio and writing um and there’s there’s different components all of those but like those are obviously you know audio visual and writing i feel very confident in my abilities as a video host and as an audio host i don’t feel as confident in my abilities as a writer now people tell me i’m good i just don’t feel like i’m as good and i try to be very genuine when i write i try to be myself not someone else um and i talk to a bunch of people about the writing component of my menu and everyone wanted me to do stuff that i wasn’t really down with the guys at sub stack so i i’m part of this like sub stack pro model i don’t know if you guys know about this okay yeah and we’ve talked to those guys uh hamish and all those guys a fair bit we like him yeah yeah so uh there was a guy named dan stone who’s a great guy he reached out to me and they basically like pitched me this thing where i could kind of do whatever i want and there’s obviously this small component of it that’s uh behind a paywall i did not feel comfortable with the paywall i’m just being honest i said the same to him i did not i did not i think most people are in the same boat as you who come from your background i do i don’t want to look i i’ve always been free and uh that that’s a weird thing in its own right because like 30 40 years ago you know you’re subscribing to sports illustrated you’re subscribed like none we’ve we’ve all we’ve programmed the audience to expect everything to be free when in reality like this stuff does you know this stuff is worth something and and it technically shouldn’t be free but it’s been that way and it’s hard to go back it’s hard to put the toothpaste back in the the tube and so i didn’t feel comfortable doing that and so the conclusion but i really wanted to work with substance and so the conclusion that i came to was uh all the proceeds that i was getting from the subs i’m donating to charity so i want people to know i’m not profiting off of any of this why i mean i don’t feel comfortable i don’t feel comfortable dude that’s crazy so uh my company uh i just so this this podcast was owned by my company called the hustle we we just sold it for a lot of money too this company called hubspot and before we sold it thank you and before we sold it we had a daily email that reached around 2 million people a day and then we owned a subscription business called trends that made many millions of dollars and we charged 300 a year i think we undercharged what is going on like most creators feel exactly how you feel and i’m like you’re crazy if you owned a restaurant and you were cooking every single day grinding eight hours a day would you give that food away for free i can’t do it i don’t know why i could even even stemming from like the shop stuff uh this this company breaking tea who i think are fascinating you guys should have those guys on they basically like react to actually they made this sweatshirt i don’t even know what what’s their name so breaking tea like breaking news so they’re like kind of quick on trends with this exactly so like let’s say uh for example off top my head jorge mousevides or nick diaz says don’t be scared homie the next day they have a t-shirt out a really cool one and they’re selling it but they have deals with mlbpa nhlpa so they’re making stuff in real time it’s a fascinating business and so one of the guys there was a fan and made a helwani shirt in the midst of like my whole thing i was like oh this is great and we split the cost and all of that i’m donating to charity as well i don’t want it i don’t know you’ve got this like this is actually like you know philanthropy that’s crazy i i i i love you ariel and i think you’re totally wrong i’ve listened to you enough that i know that you uh you know i’m married into a jewish family you’ve got this very like stereotypical jewish guilt about you of like your life and um i i think that’s weird i i i i think you i think you are totally uh downplay you know it’s funny i watch you in the interviews and i can tell you’re nervous or you are having issues like realizing that you’re the [ ] and so as a fan i will say i think you’re undervaluing yourself um what uh can i give you can i give you a free idea here for for as a creator uh no charge for you ariel you’re a friend of the house so here’s a free idea for you okay one of the new little tools in the creator playbook of how to make a bunch of money i don’t know if you saw this but mr beast who’s one of the biggest youtubers out there launched this pop-up restaurant uh and and celebrities doing restaurants kind of been a thing but like back in the day it was sort of like you know it was like margaritaville or like gordon ramsay’s wolfgang puck kitchen or whatever the hell these things are um but mr beast came out with mr beast burger and overnight he had 200 locations across the country and um and you know you think about that has this guy been pouring his you know that did that take years of preparation no what what’s happened is there’s these companies like breaking tea that exists that will create a virtual restaurant brand and what they do is they partner with like let’s say you did yes i don’t know i don’t know what you’re uh maybe it’s chinese food i don’t know what your thing would be let’s just say for a second it’s it’s pizza balls you went niche again like i don’t know how big the market is there but let’s say let’s say it was pizza just for for ease here um there’s a whole bunch of mom and pop pizza shops in every city what this company does they go partner with one in phoenix and san francisco and all these different cities and they say hey we’re gonna send you some packaging that’s custom helwani branded packaging and only on you know saturday nights when there’s a ufc pay-per-view does this restaurant go live and the menu is themed for like it’ll be like you know you know a mazda pepperoni and like you know a diaz burger and whatever else and you or you know you make up your own names and then basically your fans can kind of order with the pay-per-view now mr beast he did his little pop-up thing so he didn’t have to really lift a finger he just kind of said all right when i’ll give you some ideas on the branding of what the menu could look like you know and i approve it yeah i’ll approve it i’ll put it i’ll put my name behind it and then when the time comes i’m going to tweet out that hey this is happening and today you can go buy from my thing and i think this thing is done about over somewhere between 50 and 100 million dollars in revenue off this thing i think you know if you just sort of assume a 10 you know kickback royalty that he’s getting on this i i’m pretty confident he’s doing somewhere between three and six million a year of just recurring passive revenue um from the uh from his little mr beast burger thing now you’re not mr beast but you could do something alongside the the pay-per-views and that would just be for fun your fans i’m going to steal that i’m going to steal that but you should i can’t really shoot these guys so you’ve done the boxing thing you know the with the boxing yes which i made no money off of as well i know and i followed that and i bought one oh yeah that was fun i don’t think you understand like i’m a super fan i appreciate it and so i would what i would do is the you you went to the new house wearing boxers right now yeah i am i would go to the um hawaii school of journalism i mean i i think that that can you guys be my agent i mean these are all great ideas i love this stuff i mean i just think that you could make i i would imagine you could profit a million dollars a year selling a 500 000 whole body school of like you’ve never heard of me you’ve never heard of me before with this podcast i i did a course on writing how to be a better writer and again i’m nobody and i did i think what did i do 250k last month in this course um and so you know you sort of average that out across the year i mean these are like kind of like million dollar product lines i create the course once and then i just run i just say hey the new batch is open next month and then it runs again and people get great value at the end of the thing i say hey you know you paid whatever 900 how much value do you think you got out of this for you and your business your career right and they’re like you know on average it’s 10k basically is what they say so they get 10x return on their money uh from self-assessed on what they believe they got out of the course so you know i could send a film crew to you right now and we could film a course on how you know how to break into journalism how to make it as a as a journalist and then screw syracuse uh the people who really want this all you need is you know basically a thousand people who really want this who pay you a thousand dollars for this that’s a million dollars a year of basically pure profit because the video production costs are very very small for this wow this is great stuff that who would have thought i’d come on here and get all these ideas i feel like my head is spinning right now thank you can you can you help us now please talk to me about audience building i mean like i you seem like a guy who like you don’t have you don’t do like a significant amount of like growth tactics you just you’re just i think you’re talented and i think you’re you have tenacity so you’ve been doing it for forever um but what have have for us and anyone listening who wants to break into to do what you’ve done what uh what advice do you have on on audience building and and and getting i mean i know you don’t you’re not you’re not a [ ] like a view [ ] at all but you know it’s still you want people to like your stuff and you want a lot of people to like it what do you have for that so my mindset um was always okay the first thing was you know look at the landscape look who’s out there doing things um it’s okay to derive some kind of inspiration from this person or that person but at the end of the day like you need to develop a unique voice and give people a reason to tune in to you right don’t be a copycat don’t just try to do something because someone else is doing it and so that was my big thing and that’s why the interview lane i was like oh no one is doing this in mma i should you know develop my own voice in this lane and be the guy be the leader here and so that’s the first thing the the second thing is like it’s it’s exhausting you know you have to work your ass off to build the audience to put the content out to make it as good as possible um be consistent you know pick a day if if you’re doing a podcast or something like pick a day monday is your day don’t miss a monday you know like people who do oh one here two here take a break here it’s very hard you have to be consistent you have to be reliable you have to be relentless you have to be professional so my thing was you know reaching out to the fighters and the fighters um who i reached out to i was very you know respectful towards i was very professional towards i didn’t keep them for very long i would keep them for like 20 minutes in hopes of getting them to come back the next time right because it’s not just about this time it’s about the next time and the next time and it’s the next time and so i don’t want them in the back of their mind to say like oh this guy kept me for an hour what a pain in the ass i’m not gonna you know do this again um and then afterwards very thankful very respectful very professional uh and then over time you know it was like you know developing these relationships um checking in with fighters checking it it’s not in my world it’s fighters but it can be with anyone else if you’re an interviewer and you’re interviewing tech people and things like that like one big thing is you know i don’t just talk to fighters um when i need something from them i don’t just reach out to michael bisping when i want him on my show we talk about things all the time i mean in some respects some of these guys have become friends of mine um and they don’t feel like they’re being used it’s important to be a human being towards your you know your your guests your sources your things like that and so then when it is time to ask for something they are more than happy to help you out because you’ve asked about their dog who passed away or their wife who had surgery or their son who won a big thing in football or whatever and so these are all kind of things that you develop not with the you know it’s to me it’s always very genuine i’m not doing that i’m not checking in on the dog because i hope that in three weeks it’s gonna pay off and he has you know you know he he’s willing to come on my show it’s just being a human being about all this and working hard working your ass off trying to be different putting the content out social media is a massive thing now obviously you can’t do a show without having a social media presence and i don’t care if you have one follower or a million followers you got to put the clips out because it’s so funny to me i hear from people all the time like oh that thing that uh rose said on your show was awesome and then in back my mind i’m like oh that’s the one clip that we chose from the interview did you watch the interview or did you just watch the clip on my instagram and oftentimes it’s just the instagram clip and that’s okay it’s just about being out there getting the stuff out there making it shareable um and then hopefully it attracts more people to check you out and check you out but like if this doesn’t happen you know i started this this particular part of my life in 2007. i graduated in 2004 it took me 14 years just to get to espn and so a lot of people are impatient and they want to see the results right away it’s just not going to be that way how many people first of all i want to know how often are you working because ufc fights end on one at 1am midnight in new york and you do a post you do a recap show often but how often are you working and also how many people does it take to run a content your content operation so i feel honestly i feel like i work every day uh i don’t know if that’s good or bad but it’s it’s for the most part with pleasure like i i don’t ever feel like oh man i need a break i need a vacation this and that now uh part of going back to the therapist i was terrified of leaving espn and then kind of disappearing however i then came to the conclusion hey you know what distance makes the heart grow fonder for me and for them and so june 15th was my last day at espn and i essentially disappeared until august 15th i was still on social media i was still doing stuff here and there but i took a two-month break and it was freaking awesome because i went home to canada to see my parents for the first time in two years because of the pandemic i just i really needed that break um and i think that that’s important if you’re doing something you know for uh you know for a very long time i think it’s important to give yourself you know that type of uh break as well but um for for the most part now i i feel like i’m working every day especially with all these different people and all these different projects and there’s travel and stuff like that uh there is no real break and i’m okay with that um you just kind of find your moments i can be a lot better i wish i could put the phone away a lot sooner at night i wish i didn’t wake up and check my phone right away i wish i was a little more present um at times i’m working on that but i got to tell you guys like i feel like i’m working every day but i’m also in this state where i’ve never been happier and uh the the work has been so fulfilling and it puts me in such a good mood to create this stuff and to be there for people like there is no greater compliment that i can get when someone writes me and said i had a horrible day and then i checked out your show and it made me forget about my day or during the pandemic i was so down and you and dc used to make me laugh and uh you know i just got a message from someone who’s in australia and it’s been horrible there with the lockdowns and you you know i’m so happy your show is four hours again because you give me eight hours a week of stuff to think about outside of the lockdown i can think about mma and i have access to these fighters like there is no greater joy than i get than that um and so i don’t mind it but also you know i haven’t been to a ufc fight in a year and a half march of 2020 was my last ufc fight and partly because of the pandemic now partly because of my job and you ask me right now big time ufc fight um conor mcgregor’s return fight las vegas t-mobile sold out crowd on a saturday night in july the buzz the celebrities the atmosphere nothing better right or you ask me do you want to go to your son soccer game with 10 other parents there at the park nearby i am choosing that soccer game without a a shadow shadow of a doubt in my mind like i get so much enjoyment at being at those games being a parent being with my kids but then also doing the work that fulfills me and makes me happy there was a time where i thought i had to be at every event leave my family travel every weekend because i needed to be omnipresent because woody allen once said 80 of success is just showing up and that served me early in my life and career it doesn’t serve me anymore and so now that i’m able to pick and choose what i want to do and work with people who i want to work with and do the kind of content that i want to do but also be there for my family and my kids at this stage of their lives gives me a lot of joy and so i never thought i would get to this point where wow i don’t have to go to the events and i could still do great stuff and still be happy and still be followed and still produce amazing and still be there for my kids in a weird world i’m so thankful to the man above because i feel like it all kind of like fell into place at this point in my life someone and send that clip to connor ariel chooses soccer game oh it’s a six-year-old soccer game over conor mcgregor’s return it’s the truth and it hasn’t i just used conor cause that’s the biggest name possible obviously uh you know he’s been very good to me and it’s been an absolute honor and i would love to go to events you know of course like one a week or sorry one a year two a year three a year four like i got to go to the jake paul thing that was a great great experience um i was just using the the most you know crazy example possible the biggest name possible the point is uh i used to have fomo i used to feel sad and depressed when i wasn’t at the events because uh i felt like i was missing out i was becoming irrelevant and uh i don’t feel that way anymore i feel very confident in what i’m doing and before we wrap up the the content team what’s your team and process looking at oh right yes um so right now you know it kind of so the dream obviously is to like you know i think i don’t know if you guys are fans of pat mcafee but i think that he is doing media in sports at least better than anyone right now um he’s just doing an incredible job and he has his group of like i think eight or so guys doing work for him and his social media is brilliant because they’re often tweeting out things and he’s not even a part of it it’s just like this well oil machine and then he’s going to do smackdown he has his private plane i mean what a life this guy lives now i am nowhere near that at the moment uh i also didn’t play in the nfl but uh right now i have i would say three people who work with me uh one person’s social media one person’s video one person’s audio um and that’s just me you know my llc type of thing and then i have people who are working on other projects you know the vox stuff they have people who work with me there ringer people etc but yeah i would love to to grow that out but i think the three most important people to have right now it doesn’t have to be i mean like i all those interviews that you saw from me over the years i only had one cameraman i didn’t and and i didn’t have an audio person i didn’t have anything uh i don’t think you need a gigantic team of people to do stuff but yes it would be nice over time to have you know maybe two social media people and have this person who’s thinking of this and someone who’s you know managing like i was laughing because you know you said you had ben who did the scheduling and i was like man i wish i had a ben i wish i had someone doing my scheduling i wish i would i was uh in that position or i could even delegate some of that stuff that’s part you know my problem as well i i don’t do well at delegating um but it will come it will grow and then eventually it’ll be fun to have a store a merch store to do the stuff that you’re talking about and uh maybe make money off of it and not feel bad about it i mean there’s a lot more i feel like i’m just i’m 39 uh i’ve never been happier about you know like my age my life um and i remember when i i was a young kid and we went to to boston and my mom turned 40 and i remember she locked herself in the bathroom and she was crying because she was so sad that she turned 40. and i joke about this with her now as i’m about to turn 40. thank god she’s still alive and well and i’m like i’m so happy to be 40. i feel i’m way happier at 39 40 than i was at 1920 um and i just can’t wait to see how this all plays out last thing i wanted to ask you real quick you mentioned jake paul and you talked about audience building and all the good stuff uh consistency quality hard work but there’s also controversy jake paul is the master of controversy conor mcgregor is a master of controversy and you have leaned into the controversy i don’t know if you’ve leaned in i don’t know if it’s a work i don’t know if you if you if no actually back no way but the con you know you are the the number one mma guy and you’re banned for life from ufc from ufc events by because the president of the ufc has a feud with you and brendan chubb now has a little bit of feud with you and uh it’s highly entertaining i click every single one of them because you know same everybody loves drama everybody loves the fight uh you know we all turn our heads uh and look whenever there’s there’s a brawl that breaks out i’m i’m i’m at your clip his it’s called ask the nose i believe on the nose on the nose sorry and it’s been all about lately his fight with other other folks it’s great so tell me about that leaning into that is that intentional is that good for business uh are you having fun with it you’re actually angry what’s going on okay well i’ll just say i am not banned for life i was banned for 48 hours but that was back in 2016. over time there’s been some revisionist history where people think i’m still banned i’m not banned i’ve been to a bunch of events since then um but uh yes of course there was that feud there that happened and all this stuff and and that’s all well and good and now as i’ve come you know into this new era and uh this persona helwani thug knows el nadiz whatever you want to call me i’ve just enjoyed being able to respond to people and i think part of this comes from the fact that when i was at espn they kept telling me take the high road take the high road like a lot of people were taking shots at me and i had to take the high road take the high road muzzle muzzle muzzle muzzle censor yourself and then all of a sudden i become free and uh i think as a byproduct of being told to take the high road for the last three years i just kind of snapped and exploded and uh i think people have enjoyed see look i’m not this wimp that people think i am uh i don’t have big muscles i’m not a fighter i’m not this but i’m a crazy fiery middle eastern kid who grew up uh getting into fights all the time while i was playing sports arguing like i’m not the you know i have glasses i look nerdy whatever i’m and at times i’ve actually leaned into that because that’s a good gimmick in this world of you know big strong fighters alpha males i’m the beta but i’m really not that guy and the idea of letting people talk smack about me walk all over me disparage my name lie about me it’s just not gonna happen anymore and so i don’t care and it was funny like brendan was saying like i wouldn’t say this to his face like did you guys forget that i stood in front of rampage jackson when he wanted to like bite my head off did you guys forget that nick diaz wanted to beat me up did you guys forget that you know mayhem miller trashed my studio and i just sat there like i would say anything to anyone’s face i’m not the guy who sits in front of a keyboard or a camera and says stuff that wouldn’t you know that i wouldn’t have the courage to say in front of anyone says and i don’t think i’m disrespectful i just you know am not that guy and so uh i think he said a bunch of lies about me and then i just kind of said something and people liked it and then he kept doubling down and so i didn’t go into all this saying like oh i’m gonna come out and start wars with people and start all this beef it’s just like now i don’t have someone telling me to take the high road and i’m a little older and i’m a little more confident and i’m a little wiser and uh people are enjoying you know i i yeah i’ll be honest like i’ve realized over time you know people want to know more about me they want to see me talk about myself it doesn’t always have to be about the guests and all that stuff and that takes some time um you know to get used to because it’s it’s it’s taught you know you’re you’re you’re taught very early on in your career like it’s not about you you’re not the story but um yeah now i’m just having fun with it and yeah i’m a pro wrestling fan and i i like the the drama and all that stuff you could say what you will about all of it but at the end of the day none of it is fake none of it is a work i’m not looking for any of this i’m not trying to get paid off of any of this i’m not trying to do it for the views and all that i’m just tired of people talking [ ] about me and me having to eat it and so those days are over and i don’t care who you are i’m going to clap back as they say and uh i think i’m pretty damn good at the promos and i may not be able to fight you and have no interest in fighting you but i think i could go toe-to-toe with you in a uh in a verbal war and so yeah and it feels good to stick up for yourself and this is why i was nervous to talk to you is because i i i fully believe that i i i first you uh you’re sharp and you’re not afraid so we’re at the top of the hour um yeah i want to be respectful dude this has been badass i hope hopefully you don’t talk too much about yourself like as a guest and i hope you’ve enjoyed this because i think i have enjoyed it i hope you guys have enjoyed it i hope you felt like this was worth your your while i appreciate all the questions about building the business and betting on yourself and um i’m learning a lot about that as well now you know with all this llc stuff that makes my head heard talking to my accountant but i would urge anyone out there who is passionate about what they do and who believes in what they do i don’t have a lot of confidence like if you and i i bet you sam you and i go get a coffee right now nearby you are a much more confident person than i am you will walk up there and have your chest out and you and it’s probably because you just sold your company for a few million and you’re loving life and and life could be better i’m not i’m actually a very shy person a quiet person i keep to myself i had horrible social anxiety however when it comes to this stuff i believe in myself and i believe that no one can do it better than me and that sounds cocky but it took me a long time to actually be able to say that and so i’m really enjoying getting to do this stuff on my own and getting to do this stuff the way i want to do it without anyone telling me how to do it and i appreciate your interest in in my story and i appreciate you guys it’s been a therapy session for all of us maybe a little bit well thursdays is my therapy day so uh i i you know i was gonna have actually my session i canceled it for you guys so i i’m doubling down here because we were supposed to i don’t know if you guys know this we were supposed to do this last month and you stood me up and i’m just joking i’m not gonna go back there i hold on to things forever that’s part of my home as well yeah i know i know i’ve listened to you long enough i know this but i love it i do you gotta charge more don’t feel guilty about that that’s what as your therapist today that’s that would be my feedback because if you are the best you you deserve the best thank you i appreciate that in fact i don’t know when this is coming out but i’ll just say part of you know me trying to tinker with things i’m doing a thing for founding members of my sub stack um this evening i’ll do it three more times over the course of the year where it’s just the founding members the people who paid 180 to sign up so the sub stack is five dollars a month 50 a year or there’s the founding member deal which is 180. um i picked 180 because the number 18 is a special number for jewish people um and i’m doing a super secret vvip one night only no holds barred zoom chat with uh the people who signed up where they can ask me whatever they want for an hour i’m gonna be there are you gonna be there yes well i appreciate you signing up yes but don’t record this and take notes and post it to your millions of followers because it’s supposed to be vvvp i’m going to spill all the tea release all the dirt on all the bad people out there but it’s just for us our little group and there’s not i don’t honestly i’m kind of nervous that no one’s going to show up so the f it might just be me and you sam just for the record i would love that come true as sam calls it yeah well thanks man this is badass hopefully uh you’ve enjoyed it uh this is awesome you got to come back again i would i would be happy to just don’t you know stand me up next time yeah let go bro thanks guys [Music]