Episode of My First Million with Sam Parr and Shaan Puri.
Transcript
Note: This transcript was auto-generated from YouTube captions. It may contain errors and lacks speaker identification. A full Gemini audio transcript will replace this.
Kind: captions Language: en and you said you’d want to invest your own money in this that’s what you said here yeah i i would love if anyone wants to do this i will 100 invest so please email me um but this is one of those things where like i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be what i want to i put my law in it like no days off on the road let’s travel never looking back all right everyone we have a special episode with andrew wilkinson andrew wilkinson started this company called meta lab which grew to make tens of millions of dollars and using the profits from his agency uh meta lab he eventually bought dozens of more companies so he’s collectively his companies do hundreds of millions of dollars a year in sales and have created over a billion dollars worth of value so he’s uh seen a lot of interesting stuff and in today’s episode we talk about an incredibly success successful business person that he looks up to it’s our segment called billy of the week and then we talk about some of the ideas that uh he has for starting growing companies he currently launched a local news business so it’s kind of like my company the hustle but for different cities it’s very fascinating i’ve i’m asking him if i can join as an advisor and he started a few more things and or wants to start more stuff and he’s even said that if you are starting some of these companies to holler at him because he wants to invest so give it a listen and by the way if you’re in miami shawn and i on june 4th are going to be in miami we’re doing austin on june 3rd but that’s already sold out but june 4th we have room for up to 400 people i think already 200 people have rsvp’d it’s free um go to uh my twitter handle the sampar and scroll down you’ll see the event eventbrite link it’s totally free june 4th it’s friday uh come and uh by the way we’ve been working our ass off to make content for you just for you can you do me a favor and click subscribe in itunes and click follow on spotify when you do that we go higher up in the charts which means more people can see us which means we get more views and if we get more views we can keep doing this more and more and more because we’re making some more money from it and we’re able to dedicate more time to this so please i work my butt off for you just click subscribe and click follow on spotify and subscribe in itunes i appreciate it hope you enjoy the episode andrew what’s going on dude hey man how you doing i got a really bad really bad cold i spent all day yesterday with kleenex up my nose so uh if my voice sounds a little froggy that’s why it only sounds froggy because you said it sounded froggy i think you’re okay so andrew wilkinson good friend of mine good friends of the pod is this description that i used three or four weeks ago the same description is that is that the same thing are you wearing that same personality is that the same life or have you done something new and amazing because you’re always pulling something out of your sleeve uh yeah i’ve got i think since then i’ve launched a couple businesses actually but no the description’s still accurate um and so we’re going to talk about a couple things the first thing we’re going to talk about is well you got a bunch of ideas here i’m excited for the ideas but i want to talk about billy of the week because we talked about two people last time you were here and that was uh it’s right next to the biology episode as the most listened episode ever really no way which episode was that the bill the one where we did the two billies yeah something like i think almost 50 000 people listen to it which is like it’s an hour-long thing it’s a lot of time crazy um and then the third most listened thing was the one we did after that so you know it could just be it okay yeah it’s the other side uh move aside sean yeah so it’s like biology is like uh whatever it is you’re like within hundreds or like a thousand of it and then you’re the next two and so that’s why i figure we’ll start off with that one but you sent me i yesterday i asked you to tell me an interesting person and i’m gonna go do a ton of research on them and i did and i have a feeling you already know a lot about this person but what’s this what’s this person’s name so his name is uh i don’t know how to say it i think it’s george apollo it’s a brazilian named oh there you go okay can you say his name please and every time we need to say his name we’ll just say brayu i’ll say his first name his last name is german so i don’t know if there’s a right way of saying it but his first name is joshua is his considers his first name as well because in a lot of the articles i read about him they call them majarje sorry george apollo it might be his middle paulo might be his middle name or it might be like a double first name i’m not sure but josh this guy’s totally mysterious he doesn’t like to talk about what he does uh there’s only a few interviews with him online um but he basically i mean if you think about the businesses that he owns you would know them so burger king uh budweiser tim hortons craft foods popeyes heinz ketchup right so he basically goes out he finds these amazing you know multi-generational businesses that have been around for 50 plus years that do something very very simple that’s just gonna grow over time he goes out he usually raises a ton of debt and then he goes and buys them and takes them over and he’s been doing this for i don’t know 40 years or something like that starting in brazil let’s give a little bit of background of him um so halsey he’s about 75 years old right um and he’s based out of brazil he’s a brazilian guy and when he started at the time i don’t think that there were these like brazilian tycoons you know every article that i read about they said that he was one of the first folks in in brazil to become one of these uh private equity or warren buffett like people out of brazil and like you said very little is known about him and he doesn’t give interviews and in a lot of the interviews that i read about him they said we actually tried to talk to a bunch of his friends and nearly all of his friends said you know thank you for reaching out but he’s politely asked us not to speak about him in interviews so he prefers to stay behind the scenes and the way that his career started and is uh in 1931 at the age of 32 he had some jobs beforehand where he was a banker but he started this one bank uh abreu you want to help me out here here’s what it’s pronounced here’s how you pronounce it you see that right there it’s called garantia i don’t see it did you put it in the chat it’s highlighted it’s highlighted in the dark i think it’s garantea or something like that okay and it was described as like the goldman of brazil um i don’t know if it was described at the time like that but he was 32 when he launched it it was and what made it kind of famous was he had a very uh i wouldn’t call a laid-back culture but he didn’t look at resumes but instead he looked for uh what he described as psd which was poor or let me see what does psd stand for poor smart and deep desire to get rich yeah poor smart and deep desire to get rich that’s what he looked for was people who had psd and he would hire these folks and in previously at different companies you would automatically get a bonus if you were one of the partner but they created some type of system that was uh they tried to make it as based off of merits as much as possible so a lot of different people could get bonuses and also the bonuses you could choose do you want more stock or do you want more cash and it was a great way to incentivize people and it kind of created this iconic culture that that seems what they’re they’re famous for and it grew to be quite huge it was something like a billion dollars in profit at one year but he said that they got cocky and they screwed up they they overbought some stuff and it eventually went south and it sold for 650 million dollars which is a still a ton of money but i think it was minuscule compared to how big it got so i have a question for you andrew and then we’re going to get into this 3g thing so then after he sold it for 650 he started buying gillette stock and with his other older founders at the old company he started 3g which was a play on their name and there was three partners and they ended up buying uh burger king um tim hortons all the companies that you said and at this point he’s worth something like 25 billion dollars and one of the one of the richest people in the world um but i had a ton of questions uh that about this guy that i think that you might know or at least you have a better input than i do the first is how on earth like when people say they’re starting a bank like he did what’s that process like that sounds so ambiguous and so hard to understand well i think like people hear bank and they think like oh a big pile of money like wells fargo or something but bank the term banker means so many different things it could be somebody who works at a bank and lends out money or whatever but a banker is really like a real estate agent for businesses right or for bonds or equities or whatever it is so it’s like a person you go to or a group of people you go to who will figure out problems for you and facilitate transactions so let’s say you sam go i need to raise 100 million dollars of debt for the hustle because i need to expand a banker will go out and they will go to all the wealthy people they know and all the different you know corporations and say hey here’s this great guy you should lend money and then they take a fee in between and so in a lot of ways is the world’s best business you’re a middleman on these huge transactions multi-billion dollar transactions and you’re taking a two and a half to five percent fee on everything you do so with like 50 to 100 people you can do crazy amounts of money what skill set so when this guy started at 31 uh 32 what skill set would he have needed in order to make this happen well it’s really heavy on two things one it’s like sales and stuff and then the other is kind of financial acumen and modeling and all that so you’d probably get a bunch of people in the office who are like super hardcore spreadsheet junkie excel types who can like figure out you know how to structure a deal and then you’d also have people who can do the very high level sales right so they’re basically smooth talking and calling and selling and positioning everything to facilitate all the deals do you consider yourself a banker no i actually generally really hate dealing with bankers um and i i think it’s kind of like real estate agents right like i’m very skeptical of real estate agents i think in the next 50 years they probably won’t exist a lot of the time a real estate agent is just a person who puts up a listing online for you opens the door for a few people and then takes a huge fee which seems a crazy and out of line right and and now there’s great real estate agents let’s say you have a weird property that might not sell they know how to spruce up there’s one there’s one in a hundred that’s amazing and will sell your property for more but a lot of the time they’re useless and the same thing is kind of true with bankers i think if you’ve got a great business and you want to raise money you should just go and call a bunch of wealthy people and try and raise the money yourself because at the end of the day a lot of the time what bankers do is build some decks and then breathe on the phone while you talk to other people and then take a huge fee how much money have you raised uh we’ve raised maybe uh well it depends it depends on how you think about it so um i would say in the neighborhood of about two 200 250 million or something like that if you include our ipo or our reverse takeover we just did not including that what’s a 100 200 maybe oh so the the stack that you did wasn’t a six including it was 60 million that was that was how much we raised when we took that business public wow so then your funds have well over a hundred yeah and you didn’t use a banker for any of that no we just called people we knew i mean we had we bumbled into this world like i had no idea five years ago six years ago even i didn’t know what the difference between a banker and a bank teller was i had no idea and because of that we just kind of kept meeting interesting business people and as you met interesting business people they keep saying hey are you guys raising money because i’d love to invest with you and so eventually when we had big enough deals that were interesting and we wanted partners i just called those people and we did it ourselves so back to this guy he uh like when you’re starting something like this and this is i you like this guy because i imagine like you you you kind of want to you want to steal some of his life right i mean you want to you want you you you want to emulate some parts that he’s done yeah well i think like we’re probably similar in that like we’re both attracted to these really simple businesses like selling beer or razors like there’s both of us come from like this weird tech world where we do this like knowledge work you you write an email newsletter i do a design and then two years later it doesn’t exist right i like the longevity and the kind of simplicity of more traditional businesses so i love that and i think the idea of just buying these super safe boring steady eddy businesses that do something simple in the world and just making them better actually sounds like a lot of fun and i wrote a note below but the key thing about that what he does is um generally they have one key insight right so it’ll be something as simple as when they bought budweiser it was on the third generation they’d gotten super rich right so it was like the first generation built it the second generation like were amazing they went to harvard they grew it the third generation took over they got sloppy didn’t really care about growth they had fancy offices and private jets and stuff and so when they bought it they just look at it and go oh it’s been run in a kind of a sloppy way and they’ve lost their discipline we can buy it with a lot of debt and then we can just make it way better pay off our debt and then we own budweiser and so it’s this crazy coup for these guys from brazil who you know they came from basically uh you know started at zero although i think they were you know upper middle class in brazil but starting there to owning budweiser is crazy and i want to ask you about how to get into those deals and when i read about him it sounded like he was the young guy of a three-person partnership um which definitely i think he’s actually the old guy so there’s the two younger guys the younger guys actually go and they run the businesses so like one of the i believe went in and runs um runs uh what is it called qsr which is like owns tim hortons and all that stuff sorry i meant from his first thing so his first thing got him his big nut his first thing made him like 650 or they sold for 650 and from what it sounded like it was like a a little bit of an older guy who had a little bit been there done that kind of brought him along and he was the young guy of that partnership totally yeah and then he did the same thing and now he has younger partners right and um and so i have i had a few questions about this but i wanted to so let’s just talk about this guy’s strategy at 3g in his whole life it seems he’s done the same thing which is he’s a cheapskate he’s frugal he’s incredibly frugal um so he’s done a couple things like he has a few like phrases that they would say which is like he’s like costs are like fingernails you have to cut them constantly and he would do famous things like when they bought burger king they banned color copies meaning when you’re using the photo copy machine uh he was like just black and white only you also what was this thing you said about private jets they also force people to print on both sides they’d say you not only can you not print color but you have to print double-sided um so the first thing they would always do whenever they buy a business is they sell all the private jets immediately right and let’s be real most fortune 500 companies have like between 1 and 10 private jets and they just say f that we don’t need those they sell them and it’s kind of a statement and then from that point on the new ceo and all the executives they have to fly economy and they have to stay in motels and they all they it’s i love that right i think it just sets the tone from the top in a really interesting way and these are people i mean the ceo of abe imbev he’s probably worth like hundreds of millions of dollars and he’s staying at like a quality inn but i think there’s something to demonstrating that at the top if you want your lower lower level employees to care too i actually think that that’s a stupid thing so i get staying at cheap hotels because changing it staying at like a marriott courtyard which is like a 89 a thing i’m on board with that it’s probably even cheaper it’s 50 bucks i’m cool with that it’s just you can have a fine clean comfortable place although i do like having room service because if you get into a place late you want that but whenever these people say they fly economy i’m like that’s kind of stupid if i’m flying overnight i need a comfortable i need to be comfortable so i could like be ready to roll you know you’re like you don’t want your athlete to like work off the two hours sleep um do you actually believe that people do that i think they do i mean maybe it’s just lore uh maybe these guys are super rich and they pay for it personally or something like that but um i i don’t know i mean i think if you’re i know like walmart has a big corporate jet um fleet and they actually have a really good argument for it which is they’re constantly visiting stores and that’s their way of kind of like whipping all the store managers and making sure they do a good job and so they have all these tiny little jets that fly between small towns and if they were to fly commercial it would take 10 days to do two days of work so i think there’s a good argument for it there but i can’t imagine the ceo of abe imbev needs to be flying all over the world constantly if he’s flying once or twice a month it’s not a big deal to be on a commercial plane or whatever i just think it’s kind of a i think it’s a neat thing to do i personally like you know i i wouldn’t i would feel bad like i would be worried that i’m gonna get the worst ceo because they want like their perks or whatever but the kind of people these guys hire like these guys when they took over burger king they hired a 35 year old as a cfo right or maybe even a 30 year old and the owner is the ceo yeah yeah i i wrote about it they hired a 32 year old who was part of their management company and he took it over and he kicked ass a few things that he did was at the time burger king was was trying to advertise predominantly towards young men and he goes no we’re going to be for everyone so we’re going to advertise for everyone um another thing that he did was remember the king burger king like the king yeah he was like that’s kind of creepy get rid of that um and then the uh the third thing that he did was at the time burger king employed something like 28 000 people so they owned most of their restaurants and they would hire the people he goes now we’re going to switch to a franchise and we’re going to help all these franchise owners line up alone so you guys can make your own places really nice and we’re going to help you make it nice and that was the big switch that he did now burger king i believe crushes it and this is we’ve seen this in our own investing like often having one thesis right so the thesis could be hey margins are really shitty you know they’re they’re five percent they should be 15 and we can do that via via very simple improvements or something simple like this burger king deal where they went into big debt and they actually paid up a really high price to do it but the insight they had was well as soon as we take over we’re just going to spin out all of our corporately owned locations and franchise them and by doing that we’re going to raise all the money to pay off our debt right and so they did that and then they ended up taking it public with ackman actually um and did insanely well in it oh that’s interesting and when they did it there was a funny story about the guy um who we’re talking about uh i’m gonna try and say his name one more time uh what is it i wanna when i see it i wanna say jorge um but anyway he um so there’s a funny story about him he had never had burger king until they bought the company and it was like a multi-billion dollar deal he didn’t eat it until they bought the company and when he ate it he was like ah this is too big and he’s known for like really only drinking water and eating really healthy but he owns you know non-healthy stuff what’s your take on that do you think that does that rub you the wrong way are you like oh no i think i think it rubs me in the wrong way i think he sounds like he’s really good at kind of being secretive and pr that’s exactly the sort of thing i wouldn’t want to give out i wouldn’t want it out in public or whatever i think it sounds kind of lame so this type of business um that you like and i i enjoy it too but um would when i was reading all about him would you say this boy to me it boils down to you have to be good at fundraising money so you have to be good at getting convincing some type of rich institution or rich people to give you money the second thing you have to get good at is you have to recruit really really talented people typically people that are highly recruited at other places typically people who can start their own thing typically people who are probably already wealthy you have to hire them and then third and probably most important you have to be really good at inspiring and leading them so you have to be a leader of leaders is that like the three three pillars to this am i missing exactly you nailed it it’s really and it’s really really hard the hardest part is recruiting the the amazing people like our biggest challenge isn’t doing deals it’s like we could do a deal every month it’s how can we find enough amazing people to run all these businesses and then how can we validate that they’re going to be able to do what we need from them and you know you think about like that 32 year old he was probably working in head office for 10 years and they saw all this stuff but it’s a huge chance to hand that to him and that could have gone really really poorly um but i i think that’s exactly that’s the warren buffett playbook right it’s like how do you be a leader of leaders how do you give them positive coaching without like getting too involved in the day-to-day and the fundraising part actually seems like the easiest the fundraising honestly like it was so when we did we have a we have a fund and uh which we raised during covet just because we thought we were gonna get mobbed and it was really weird we actually was like like we thought we were gonna have this no no we thought we were gonna have like overwhelming amounts of deals to do and we thought it would be a great time to have excess capital and uh that didn’t happen right everyone was actually weirdly optimistic and the government wrote the check and all that stuff but um but doing doing the money raising wasn’t actually that hard like running an agency for or owning an agency for 15 years and doing sales for a long time like that’s easy you just have a fun conversation with someone you walk them through a deck you point to your track record that that was totally fine the hard part is really the execution of the actual deals and hiring the right people and i would argue i mean i don’t know really what i’m talking about entirely strictly from reading it seems like executing the deals is hard but it’s not that hard the hard part is really the people part is that we i we’ve done deals we just did our biggest deal ever um and it was over 100 million dollars and it was no more work or complexity than doing a one million dollar deal and in fact it was simpler than a one million dollar deal because it’s just a better business with a better team in place and more momentum has always complicated people uh well in our in our public company we bought a company called stamp which is one of the top ratings and reviews apps on shopify um there’s a 110 i believe total uh it gets paid out it’s a structure you’d have to look at the press release for the exact structure but wow that’s in around there when i was reading this i’m in the middle of reading um human nature by robert greene and the reason have you heard of that it’s an amazing book i’ve been reading that too have you really wow it’s amazing isn’t it crazy it’s so good it’s so everything he does is great and the laws the laws of human nature isn’t it called right yeah the laws of human nature and i already read it and now i’m rereading it again but i’m studying it like i was like i’m taking a semester of robert greene and the reason why i am reading it is because i thought that when i was getting into business all that would matter is like business and you’re like well what’s business it’s like i don’t know um uh like i guess selling stuff making the product really good um in my business it was like i’m just gonna write words that people like like it’s really simple but what i’ve learned is it’s far more important to understand and motivate human beings and have really effective day-to-day interactions with people and in order to do that you have to have a little bit of a i’ll call it like a machiavellian type of thing to you where like people love you yet they’re a little bit fearful of you they kind of view you as like a little bit of mysterious like you have to attract these people and they have to both want to be around you yet think that you’re formidable and be a little bit like nervous of like oh man if i don’t join this person they’re going to crush me and live up to your expectations what do you mean well like basically how do you one of the things like some of the some people i’ve worked with have this thing where you just want you always want to raise the bar and you always want to live up to their expectations so they say this is the bar this is what i expect from you but they do it in a very flattering way like you’re really smart you work really hard i’m so impressed with you i know you can achieve this right and then they set this crazy bar and you just naturally want to live up to the expectations and i’ve always struggled with that uh well just different different partner business partners and stuff have dealt with over the last couple years um but but uh like with employees and stuff i’ve always had this habit of wanting to be liked and i still want to be liked but i want to be firm and i want to have boundaries because in the past what i’ve done is in wanting to be liked i’ve excused like somebody failing and said like it’s okay don’t worry about it it’s fine and then i’d quietly just dismiss them and then not use them for tasks like that whereas i think it’s actually really important to be like hey look it’s okay you effed up but like you let me down and here’s why you let me down and here’s how this impacted everything or here’s the bar and here’s how what i need from you and whatever it is and i’ve always been terrible at that it’s crazy i mean elon musk has it bill ackman who you know has it this guy who we’re talking about he definitely had it when i looked at him and i like would see how he would dress and how he held himself uh you know travis kalanick kind of has it where they’re just like you’re just you’re afraid of them in a way of like they inspire me but like um they they can crush it like whatever they whatever they set their mind to they’re gonna get done and that’s regardless if you agree with their ethics or not but you definitely could agree that like these guys are good they’re going places there’s a great story about uh sheryl sandberg at facebook i forget who who told this story but she goes i was in a meeting with cheryl and i you know i gave this presentation and then she walked to me outside and she said during your presentation it was great but you kept saying like only stupid people say like and you’re not stupid and then she walked away right and you can look at that and go oh my god i can’t believe she did that that’s so mean but the way she told it was like it was a kind of a backhanded compliment that told her something that was embarrassing it’s like saying like hey you have like you know you have lettuce in your teeth or whatever you don’t want to hear it but like it’s helpful and i think i’ve been very bad at that kind of stuff i think you need to give more firm feedback that’s stories from um erratic uh candid or whatever that would be a radical candor it’s a good one but um as i was reading this guy i’m like man in order to get into some of these deals like heinz um whatever in order to attract these i mean basically like um this guy and the folks that we talk about and maybe i think you as well andrew that you’re like uncommon amongst the uncommon and you have to lead the killers so like you’ve got to be the killer amongst killers and that is kind of like a fascinating thing to think about because to bring it back to what i originally said when i got into business i thought it was all about coming up with creative ideas it’s like no i just got to be a leader of men and women and that’s really hard so i’ve been studying how to do that and i’ve been studying like war leaders been studying you know who really is good at this like celebrities like marilyn monroe it’s like it’s basically kind of seduction a little bit um and how do you just like get people under your spell and hopefully your spell is not positive but i don’t yeah i think like there’s a i think it sounds stressful though like the idea of like i’m gonna be a killer and i’m gonna you know do all this stuff and be machiavellian like i really don’t i don’t like that feeling of like feeling like i’m manipulating someone what i like to think about more and what’s been more instructive for me is just reading psychology like robert cialdini and all that stuff and figuring out incentives and one of the things i’ve learned is that if somebody is incentivized to not work as hard as you or not care as much as you they won’t right so people do whatever it’s it’s shocking but they’ll do whatever whatever the financial or day-to-day lifestyle incentive is where they can take the path of least resistance they will and then they’ll create their own narrative for why they’re doing it right they might say i’m not working hard because you know i don’t like my work environment or whatever or there’s a problem with management or whatever it is but often it’s actually them just going why would i work harder i don’t make more money right i don’t get a bonus for working harder i clock in my time or whatever so i think a lot of the time this stuff is just an incentives problem and that that’s pervasive through everything going back to realtors they have an incentive to just sell your house for the lowest price to get it done to get to lock in their fee they have an incentive against you i agree with you that that is part of the that is that is that is a portion of it i would say that there if there’s two portions those are both them but i think you’re totally full of [ ] in that you don’t care about this because you do your pers your your public image is and i don’t know if you mean to do this or not but i’ll tell you what your image is it’s like you’re like a cool guy like you dress nice you’ve got slick back hair you’re good looking you have these cool glasses you’re a designer i mean brother look at the website what’s the url of tiny um tiny capital tiny capital you use the same wonderful imagery used like you have a brand and a brand is is exactly this machiavellian thing that i’m describing of how to manipulate the field i don’t know emotion ugh i don’t know i think you’re the word machiavellian but you are manipulating people to feel a certain way oh absolutely no no absolutely but it’s like copy right like knowing how to write good copy what you’re really doing is you’re taking people along for an emotional journey by using various words right and there’s two ways to look at it one is oh it’s who’s super manipulative or the other is no you’re trying to communicate and you’re an effective communicator right and don’t get me wrong we definitely do like yuck up the kind of the softness of what we do but it comes from like you know we dealt with wall street bankers we dealt with people trying to acquire companies they were shitty so this is me going oh well i hated that how can i market to those people who have the same hatred that i or whatever but yes there’s definitely a lot of public public image stuff that we think about so we’ll wrap up with this billy of the week uh segment but what’s your main takeaways from this guy and um there’s a book about him it’s called like greatness i think i i couldn’t find i only saw it in portuguese i don’t know if there’s an english version yeah it’s called uh oh what is it the dream big dream it’s on amazon yeah it’s quite good i read it maybe four or five years ago what’s your main takeaways from this guy why the biggest what can i learn from him and what should i avoid i think it’s like you don’t need to do something innovative and crazy right you don’t need to be the next elon musk or start some crazy technology you can just choose a traditional business that’s very poorly run and run it better and i you know even better if it’s a business that’s low risk growing and kind of successful despite bad management or you know bloated cost structure or something and you wrote something in here that was important which is different than how i perceived you as doing which was um you need to be comfort comfortable taking on outside capital and having well i think like for this exact structure right so what they do they raise a lot of debt and that allows them to have you know a lot of control because they have debt but it’s silent it’s not involved in the operations and that gives them the ability to just like overrule and take over um and you got to raise a lot of money i mean if you’re going to go buy heinz ketchup like that’s not the kind of deal you can get like a crazy deal on you’re going to have to pay the highest market price for in order to do that you got to raise a lot of money compared to what we do like we’re not buying the heinz ketchup we’re buying the like random local ketchup brand right that’s like been successful in a small niche those deals you can find oh and i i want to ask one more question before we wrap up actually so i actually was thinking about this so like you’re further along you’re a few years older than me not only a couple years older but in terms of like career success you’re you’re a fair bit ahead of me in terms of like you know we’re both going down the same path um and then one path in front of that you’re friends with guys like bill ackman these folks that are worth you know billions of dollars in that and and yeah like they’re just doing [ ] so like along this path let’s say of the spectrum of people doing stuff it starts with like a scrappy internet nerd in their bedroom like you and i were and then it comes to like alright you get a little bit of success like i have and then it comes like all right you’re starting to like move things a little bit but even you said you’re still a pipsqueak compared to like you know enactment or whatever what how does this this transition from going from like someone who’s kind of interesting to like a mover and shaker on at a global scale how do you does that kind of seem like a crazy transition to you because it’s kind of like you’re not far from that it seems um but like these guys like bill ackman when they say something they’re in the news when they say um when they like make a trade every once in a while it can like impact millions of people yeah i mean i don’t i look i just look and look up and see how far we have to go i still feel really really small and you start you know like you know when you like you’re running your company and you’re like you tell people like oh we do a million dollars a year in profit and to you that’s like a crazy amount of money and then you realize oh my god there’s businesses out there that do 30 million or 100 million or a billion dollars of profit every year and the numbers just keep getting bigger i just find as we get bigger i just start talking to people who have businesses that are way bigger and you know it’s funny you mentioned ackman i mean ackman i don’t know what he’s worth probably like four or five six billion dollars but this george apollo guy he’s worth 25 right and so everyone’s looking up at some some person that they want to be and someone doing bigger stuff i think um it’s kind of like the analogy i would use is if you’re an athlete and you start out as just some casual high school athlete and then you end up in the olympics and you just keep rising up and doing more and more stuff and eventually you look around and go like whoa holy crap i made it to the olympics this is crazy um but i don’t necessarily think it buys you any happiness or a better life necessarily and i think there’s a really interesting decision of well do you want to be a mover and shaker is it worth all the downsides i think there are quite a few no [ ] i agree um all right let’s talk about some ideas um what we’re going to talk about is not necessarily an idea but something that you’re working on right now i want to talk about capital daily because i’ve seen you i’ve seen this from the beginning and i’m getting updates this latest update sounds pretty amazing yeah so i mean the last two years oh actually let me just zoom out and i’ll say talk about what happened so basically uh i read the newspaper every day uh i would read the new york times and wall street journal and read all this incredible investigative reporting and then i would pick up my local paper which is called the times colonist here in victoria canada and it was just there’s nothing it was they didn’t have any journalists they’d laid everyone off and it was all just like ap wire service so it’s like international news and i was like how the hell do i figure out what’s going on in my own city and i realized there was a few people doing local reporting but there’s this gap there and so i thought okay well if i want this i’m sure other people do and i looked at buying the local paper actually but they wanted like a crazy amount of money they had like printing presses like you know unionized employees it’s like a cruise ship not a speed boat it’d be a pain in the ass to buy it and so i went to a friend who is a um a stay-at-home mom who had some experience doing a bunch of writing and i said hey why don’t we just start a mailchimp account and we’ll come up with a brand we called it capital daily and we’ll send out a daily newsletter and we’ll just summarize like hey here’s like three or four stories of things that are happening in town so we start doing this and i i have a friend who runs a ppc agency and i get him to just go buy ads and i realize i can buy ads for like nothing no one’s advertising for local news break that down uh so you’re saying you you had a friend that would buy advertising to get new users you said hey could you see if you could run some ads to get uh email subscribers to capital daily yeah i was like how do i get this to scale as quickly as possible a i saw an opportunity and b i realized that in local news usually there’s one winner right so historically there’s usually been one big newspaper and so i was like how do i get this as big as possible as fast as possible and i was also just impatient i was like i have money i can afford to do it i’m just going to spend like 200 grand on ads and so we spent i don’t know 100 200 grand and very quickly we got to like 25 000 subscribers and i just started hiring journalists and uh built out a team and it was it was crazy like i would be in a cafe and people would stop me and be like hey are you the capital daily guy like thank you so much it’s amazing like the first thing i do when i wake up and drink my coffee is read your newsletter and that was an amazing feeling like i’ve got all these other businesses that are like big and i’ve never ever ever felt that sense of community and just like doing something important and so i was having a lot of fun with it uh we started hiring a whole bunch of people and uh we realized like hey this is hard the advertisers don’t understand it like people who buy newspaper ads they’re just stuck in their ways they’re old they’re like all boomers and stuff and so we’re having a really hard time selling ads i also built this big news team and was like burning all this money and i was kind of freaking out going like i don’t know if this is have i got myself into some trouble here but a little over six months a year ago i partnered with this guy farhan and he had scaled the biggest local news site in vancouver and he took over as ceo and now he’s monetized it and i think we’re gonna break even very soon on uh the local stuff in victoria um we’ve started selling out ads and i think like on a unit economic basis where we look at victoria it’s now profitable uh and it can be very profitable if our membership model works and we’ve started expanding so we’ve now got uh six or seven different newsletters in different areas mostly here in canada um and we’re scaling i’m i’m super excited about it so is that over story media group yeah so go ahead i it’s funny we like we chose then i like the name overstory but we got cute and we were like oh overstory media group is omg and that looks cool as a logo and so we chose overstory media group but then now everyone calls it that and i hate that name but i really like overstory okay overstory so overstory is the parent company that owns capital daily yeah dude it looks like you have like 50 people working there yeah we’ve we’ve scaled a lot over the last little bit are these almost like a big bet yeah these are all pretty much all full-time how much did you invest to start this business uh i think at this point i’ve probably spent two just over 2 million bucks but you have to remember that probably the first 700k was just me me not monetizing it soon enough and just focusing on building the audience first so i think we probably spent 200 250k in ads and then we probably burned an unnecessary 500k like hiring the wrong and kind of like experimenting so really at this point we have the biggest news in my city for probably 750 to a million um and i think that business can probably at scale probably do 500 to a million in profit once we’re actually like going so i feel pretty good about it but now we’re taking this bigger bet that you know we can basically roll out local news across canada and farhan is your coach he’s like the the co-founder yeah and so you attracted him because you go i’ll put up the money if you run it exactly like i said look i’ve already kind of got this thing i’ve proven the model out and uh you know he was looking for his next thing and it was one of those things you know when you just meet someone and you go oh my god i want to do business with this person and they just have the right background like he’d done he’d spent like five ten years doing the exact thing that i needed um so it’s a total no-brainer dude i feel like this is a much bigger deal than you’re making it seem yeah it’s pretty crazy what it’s become and it’s you know it goes back to i have in total uh i spend a lot more time on this business than the others because it’s like a passion project and i’m a consumer of it right i read it every morning and i give them feedback uh and i think i annoy farhan with like daily texts about it but um i’ve only really spent a few probably less than a week of time on this and the key leverage point has just been uh bringing farhan on board because when farhan joined it was just a single newsletter with like three employees um so now i mean he’s gone out and basically said look like axios down in the states is aggressively expanding their local and i think that’s because it’s gonna work and it can be profitable let’s go do the exact same thing in and so you’re gonna hope how’s the story gonna end do you think i don’t know i mean i think that if it’s true in victoria it’s probably true in a lot of other places um the interesting thing is trying to figure out like you know what topics people really want to hear and are they really variable city by city right so for example like we expanded into langford which is a suburb suburb here and it’s more working class and so it’s figuring out okay you know what are those people want to hear uh versus somebody who lives you know in in victoria or in vancouver do they want different topics like you know just that kind of stuff i think is going to be really interesting to figure out and what’s your membership your subscription going to be uh we haven’t announced it yet but we’re kind of thinking about like somewhere between 100 and 200 a year uh getting local discounts access to events maybe like a member-only newsletter uh and extra content and stuff one of the things i really want to do is start hosting events in person because like as you know it’s one thing to see a number of like oh the hustle has a million uh million subscribers but when you meet up with people in person it’s crazy so i’m really excited to like fill a room with all the subscribers and just see what that feels like yeah me and sean are going to miami we just posted about it and we got like 300 people signed up great uh um so wow this is amazing i can’t believe you didn’t ask me to be part of this dude so frustrated maybe i maybe i will i i’m i have it’s all just my own money at this point so if i decide i gotta go big i’ll definitely hit you up i’m very interested you gotta make me an advisor i think this is gonna be sick um all right you wanna talk about another idea so you we’ll talk about the baker thing in a second what’s this um which one do you wanna move to let’s do the pregnancy stuff okay i think that’s cool what do you want yeah this is like a business in a box this is one of those things that i would do if i had time but i don’t i think it’s a really good idea so um people love to spend money on their kids making their kids better smarter feeling like good parents and stuff there’s all sorts of like you know baby emotes are you know different uh health things people do for their kids but nobody really thinks about health during pregnancy and i think this is something that’s really important that’s totally overlooked my son was born early he was born like three weeks early and low birth weight and he’s fine like we haven’t had any health issues or anything but any parent who’s gone through that knows it’s absolutely terrifying and i started researching it a ton and i realized that there’s all sorts of things that you can proactively do to ensure that you have a really healthy uh a really healthy pregnancy but then also to um like basically optimize your kid so if you think about it your kid is growing a brain and a body they get to do that once right like this is the building this is the foundation of your kid and so i started researching all this stuff i talked to a really smart friend my friend dr ronda patrick and basically i realized there’s like all these studies that show that kids and mothers who have like fish and dha supplements b vitamins make sure they’re not anemic and stuff it minimizes any risk of pregnancy and it also maximizes iq and general flourishing adhd all this other stuff so there’s this huge in marketing the most important thing is to have a hook and the hook can be fear right how do you avoid this terrible outcome and one of the problems with doctors is when you talk to a doctor they just don’t want to scare your wife during pregnancy and so they just say take vitamin d or do this thing they don’t explain why and so i think explaining to mothers here’s why you want to do this here’s all the potential bad things you can avoid and hey you can make your kids smarter and better in the process there’s a huge opportunity to basically do like roman or hymns but for maternal health so you do blood work supplements that get delivered on a schedule and it’s about building like a super baby every three months i’m like why the hell hasn’t anyone done this yet well there is a but there’s a reason why you shouldn’t invest in this which you’ve written here yeah i think it’s a this is a great business for someone who’s never done a business before because it’s a good like launch pad business it’s something that can make you could be big but there’s no competitive barrier right so you’re gonna go out you’re gonna do this then a bunch of people are gonna copy you and you can probably make a good living on this i don’t think it has like a moat necessarily except for maybe like a brand that mothers share or something but i think there’s something here have you heard of the there’s this guy named um i forget his name uh joel maybe joel on writing is his blog and he says there’s ben and jerry businesses and then there’s um ben jerry’s versus amazon is what he says he goes but ben and jerry it’s like a unique interesting brand and a person can go to ice stream five days a week and try all types of different stuff and everyone can survive and the only thing that separates ben and jerry is just that it’s slightly different but there’s enough for everyone to succeed like you know there’s a there’s enough space we can all win and you can grow it pretty slowly for 100 years and it could probably last for 100 years and probably won’t go away very easily but then there’s like an amazon which is you can really only you really are only going to subscribe to one amazon prime and once you give your credit card to amazon save it you’re probably just going to continue to use that and so with the ben and jerry business it’s okay to go slow it’s no big deal you don’t have to raise a lot of money you can grow slower so long as you’re willing to do it for 20 30 years it can get big you’ve got to get huge really fast um because everyone can copy you it’s kind of like rome’s and him there’s a reason why like there was like five right away because someone saw it oh hurry up copy it you could spit this [ ] up in three weeks but him the only moat here is size it’s literally a form if you think about what hymns is the original website was a well-designed site they put some like they find some stock images that are hip of like pill bottles they add their logo onto it so it looks like it’s a special and then they literally have like a form you fill out and then a doctor just goes yeah rubber stamp okay i’ll do it i’ll send the prescription or whatever and they’ve gotten way more sophisticated but at the end of the day there’s no lock-in other than the fact that i happen to subscribe with them and so other people just go out and you end up basically competing in to whatever the cost of the ads is if it costs two bucks to convert someone then you can make five cents per right and that’s what happens with these businesses but i think for a year or two you could probably make a lot of money we first started this i said we should break this up into two i actually think we should break it up and we should keep it as one and because you have to go with the 10 minutes past right yeah something around about about 115. so you have this thing called what is enough money i 100 want to talk about that so let’s talk about one more one more idea um and then we can come back you andrew has a huge list of ideas we’ll save these and and do it for the next one but what um which other idea do you want to go to yeah this one’s really this is a really weird story but so my whole life i could never burp um so my brother would like burp in my face and i’d be like what the hell how do i do that i just couldn’t it was really really bizarre and you know i’d drink like pop and i’d feel bloated and crappy and i couldn’t burp but it wasn’t a big deal i didn’t think much of it and uh and then when i was about 23 or 24 i started getting this weird acid reflux and i just get this shitty feeling of pressure and then acid reflux and it started happening day after day after day and it started driving me absolutely crazy and so about seven or eight years i started researching it and i knew nothing about health i knew nothing about diet and i just basically had to figure everything out myself and i tried everything i tried drugs supplements i had like you know you know surgeries where they stick stuff down your throat and put cameras down there i had a wire put down my throat to check on my stomach acid i did acupuncture like everything and nothing worked and finally after seven years of researching this i was on google and i i thought about this burping thing and i was like i wonder if it’s that and i found this reddit community called no burp oh there’s this huge community of people who also can’t burp and on that community there was somebody and they said look there’s this doctor in chicago and he injects botox into the cricopharyngeal muscle in your throat and it allows you to burp and so basically the reason why people can’t burp is they have this weird muscle that’s too tight so i flew down chicago about six months ago and i got this injection and now i can burp and i don’t get acid reflux anymore and my life is literally like 25 better i’m happier like this was actually driving me insane what was your first burp like was it like have you seen how the colorblind people put these glasses on and they could see colors or when basically i actually put it on twitter i put it on twitter i’ll find it for you and we can share it in the show notes there’s a video of me burping it sounded it sounds insane too right like i just like yeah it’s like one of those videos where the dog gets home and hasn’t seen the owner for four years like i’m just like i’m very emotional but uh it sounds effed up now i can burp like a normal person do you have 35 years of gas built up dude literally like i didn’t know i didn’t know what it was like to just feel like release right i just always had pressure so so anyway so i would have spent a lot of money a lot of money to figure this out and i tried all sorts of stuff i looked at like can i go to the mayo clinic like whatever and the problem is that the medical industry is just very fractured so everyone does one very specific thing and there’s no one that brings it all together and most gps you know they are primary physicians they can help you but they’re not going to go deep on an issue and really spend time on this and so i think there’s an interesting business opportunity i don’t know how big it is but this idea of a medical advocate this is basically a project manager for your problem so you’d say like i have diabetes or i have a rare condition or i have this symptom and they’re going to go to every doctor’s appointment they’re going to get you into the best specialist they’re going to push the doctors to do testing they’re going to look at all the outcomes all the data read all the papers and i think this is the sort of thing that wealthy people specifically would pay a lot of money and especially if you could make it outcome based where you say if i cure this for you what’s it worth to you i think this could be actually a pretty big business so two things the first have you heard of a concierge doctor yes so i have that uh basically i pay of and and i have it because someone like got it for me when i was like really ill um this billionaire lady it was a crazy story that i’ll tell another time but basically i um have this doctor named dr horowitz and i just text him i go hey dr horowitz um my achilles really hurts me can you schedule an mri for me or something like that uh and he’s like yeah i think an mri would be good i’ll hook it up so they you know and i paid an annual fee for it 25 000 and um would that not be this well it i think that’s very i have that as well but i think it’s very driven by whatever you want right so you text them you say you want an mri but if you say hey my back is hurting the question is is he going to be able to have time to spend four hours a day researching your back specifically and figure that out for you is he going to have time to go to all the doctors appointments and interact with all the specialists and negotiate with them and everything that’s what i’m looking for is like someone to be in the room to solve problems because i think a lot of people have like a a loved one gets cancer and they’re like well how do i navigate this like what’s the optimal treatment what am i missing am i talking to the wrong doctor like what advice is bad etc kind of like um a health a health manager totally specifically around an issue or like you could do it around specific issues but i think i think it’s kind of like a a weird niche i recently heard about a business where all they did was negotiate uh bills for hospitals and it was a like a a very small number of people and this business made an absolute killing and that kind of turned me on to these niche medical areas did you um look into the there’s this thing called a mayo clinic um executive what’s it called a mayo clinic executive i forget exactly what it’s called but have you seen this where you pay uh executive health program you pay ten thousand dollars and you go to a mayo clinic and they have like five of them or six of them and you basically spend two days i think or three days and they look at everything of your body and try to diagnose anything i mean have you seen this yeah i looked at doing that and what did you why didn’t you well i started looking into it and what i realized is that they were just gonna recommend the same thing that i already looked at right when i talked to i think i talked to a doctor and he said oh yeah you’re probably gonna have to have this special surgery which is like they they do like a surgery on your throat to close it off from acid and i’m like holy crap thank god i didn’t do that that has like a million knock-on effects and all sorts of issues why wouldn’t this work well i think the hard part would be is it insured maybe not so you’re paying out-of-pocket how many people really want this is this just something like some rich people want or is this a real opportunity and then also like just how much can you charge for it um i think it could be a great business for one person it could be a great business for 10 people maybe it can scale i don’t know i like personally i like the pregnancy health one more but i think the other one is more just something that’s needed especially around if you specialized in like cancer or something so it’s like when your dad gets diagnosed with cancer there’s like a clear person to talk to who’s like an advisor who’s impartial can we um i’m just going through this i think it’s interesting i think that this is it’s i sometimes i’m partial to these like rich people ideas aren’t you like i’m like i’m like it’s cool but i don’t know if i want to do that i think it’s it’s one of those things that is probably a business but it goes back to like we have a warped view of it it go and you know we’ll talk about the enough money stuff later but i think the interesting thing that seems to happen the theme i see with people who make good amounts of money and become comfortable is they just make themselves uncomfortable again by obsessing over all the stuff that can go wrong like getting you know health issues car accidents you know how can how can it all get taken away exactly um let’s talk about that so you wrote something here that immediately caught my eye and it’s something that i’ve been reading over and over again is called what is enough money and we you and i talked about this recently basically i told you the goal when i started the hustle was by around 30. i wanted to make enough money that right up front like my nut would very passively spit off fifty thousand dollars a month in perpetuity so 50k or the equivalent with uh including inflation every single month forever and to do you need like you want like between two to three percent of your portfolio to be able to do that so what’s i don’t know what whatever that do that math that’s that minimum but that was my goal and yeah i mean i i i did it um and you started talking to me about what is enough money so what were you gonna say yeah i mean i i loved you came back to me and you just said like to me enough money is like 25 to 50k a month in perpetuity with very little i said 50. and the reason i said 50 is i spend way less than that but i wanted to be incredibly conservative yeah so you’d go on a vacation and be crazy and not worry about it yeah or i think that’s the right that’s the right way to think about it i think the problem is a lot of people go i want to be a billionaire or whatever and it’s what do you really want it’s like well i really just want to be able to like do whatever i want every month and let’s be honest 50k a month even 25k a month is enough to do whatever you want for the rest of your life and so people often will ask me like oh what do you know what do you aspire to be or who do you admire most and i think like money is like i i use the athle like the athlete thing the example before of like olympic athletes i think like billionaires are like olympic athletes but let’s be real olympic athletes many of them have no personal life because all they do is train and they destroy their bodies by the time they’re right and so the people i actually really admire i admire those sorry i admire i’m impressed by those people i love their dedication i love that they do that but i don’t know if i personally want to work that hard or become an olympian i think what i aspire to be is to be the casual tennis player who is always challenging themselves loves playing plays with friends all that kind of stuff and so if you think about it from that perspective um the people i’m jealous of are the people who have 10 to 25 million dollars in a conservative passive investment they’ve paid off their house and they’re just set and they have a great balanced lifestyle um i i love that kind of stuff and i don’t know if i’m i think i’m too much of a maniac i think like i’m too anxious and i always want to do more and more and more i have a lot of fun with but so it’s hard for me to stop but those are the people that i’m jealous of there’s a lot to unpack there first of all if you’re jealous why don’t you do that that’s a good question i just don’t think my personality is is really suited for that right i i always i always want as soon as i have like freedom i fill myself up again right and i’m trying to crack that right now of like what’s driving that is that fear is it anxiety is it just that i love doing this i don’t know i mean it’s easy i got the same thing it’s insecurity um like you want to it’s all it’s rooted in a fear of am i good enough to do like i want to com and it’s ego as well i think it’s it’s i have to prove that i’m better than bill ackman or whoever it is like you’re at this i don’t i don’t have that no i don’t i don’t feel that what i feel is like it’s more it’s more fun new things and what i’ve realized about kovit is like i hated working this year because all it was was the work what i actually love is just like meeting new people right it’s like it’s just an excuse to like meet new people and solve fun i know that sounds very kumbaya but for me it’s very true without i all this work and all this more stuff is meaningless to me if i’m not like hanging out with cool interesting people and learning new things and making new friends that’s all i care about and so like starting the news business even like that was an opportunity for me to be like oh who are journalists i get to you know get to know journalists who live in this whole other world outside of business where they care about totally different things and i can like nerd out on this new topic and make a whole group of new friends what would happen if you just turned off your phone or changed your phone number not opened your computer ever again and never read your email or for like a year what do you think would happen if you did that and you came back to tiny i think i’d be fine right we just did this at tiny we changed we don’t get monthly reports anymore from the ceos so like there’s businesses where i don’t i haven’t even talked to the ceo for three or four months i don’t even know what their numbers are and what we’ve realized is that when you leave people alone and trust them usually good things happen and the more involved we get the worse the businesses do you have a cool quote here most successful people are just walking anxiety disorders harnessed for productivity um i completely agree i think there’s this um i have some a friend was telling me about this book i’m gonna read but basically they said something like a lot of great leaders um who we look up to have horrible personality disorders you or portable um flaws so for example jfk um was was addicted to a painkiller because he was he had a lot of issues and he was addicted to drugs um abe lincoln um he tried to kill himself a couple times and he was very suicidal and he had horrible depression same with theodore roosevelt horrible depression his wife and his newborn daughter died on the same day uh he had a he was very sad and but these types of personalities are really good during wartime um they’re good because it gives them they’re like a dog that has to chase a car and they feel comfortable in that in that mode and when i see you saying that you have to do the next thing and also that successful people are a walking dis anxiety disorder i agree with you i think that that is true but then i also say to myself then why would i feel bad about chasing things all the time um like why would i say like well the most successful people are just like 10 to 20 years sitting and and i just feel guilty about wanting to do [ ] all the time i’m like well because i’m just a guy and i’m built to go and do this [ ] because of how my brain is built and that is just who i am and i will not feel guilty for that yeah you’re like a golden retriever and you like to chase balls and nothing is gonna change that in your brain unless maybe you take like some drug or something like that yeah so i don’t think it’s i don’t know if it’s bad but it’s more like the you know i envy the people who can slow down but i don’t necessarily know that i want that i don’t know if i could deal with that right like i love my ideal day is actually like meeting a whole bunch of people and looking at a bunch of problems and looking at a bunch of different businesses as well as family and friends and exercise but if you take away the work part i don’t really do very well i kind of need three four hours of work every single day and uh so i think there’s just this natural yin and yang of like you know i over get overwhelmed and then i scale down and then i have white space and then i immediately scale back up because i’m like oh i have white space i can do more stuff what about um this photo booth business so that i was like someone who i really admire and this is just this is genius so i met this guy probably five or six years ago uh really interesting local serial entrepreneur and um he has this business that’s a passport photo booth right and in victoria there’s a passport office it’s in the mall there’s only one of them he has the passport photo office right outside or sorry the passport photo place right outside the canadian passport thing so as people walk in and they go oh [ ] i need a passport photo he’s got the booth right there right and i was just like that is a freaking amazing business it spits out like i don’t know how much but you know a good life for him and it just creates this base for him and i was like that’s the ultimate and this guy he has like three or four um but he also just like mountain bikes and surfs all the time and seems to like do whatever he wants right this guy and he’s always giving me [ ] being like dude come surfing with me like why aren’t you enjoying life and stuff um and uh really really interesting guy but it’s just an example of like the kind of people who i’m like oh you’ve like you’ve hacked it you’ve figured it out you’ve got enough and you’re always doing enough interesting stuff that you’re active but you also find time to do like whatever the hell you want for three four hours a day so why do you have a personal scorecard but what is this uh so chris and i like i would say kovid like hit us super hard over the winter we were so busy we took that company public like it was just an exhausting year and we were like we need a personal scorecard to do we try and do this like once a month or so where we just sit down and ask ourselves these questions and if enough of them are negative then we’ll be like okay we gotta change something so some of them are like um you know when you’re with your kids are you present are you taking your kids out for one on ones at least twice a month have you had any calls in the last week that you would just not want to do have you had more than two hours of calendar scheduled time per day are you reading interesting books you pre proud of your body you know just like basic stuff that encompasses your life and it’s been really really interesting and useful to just force yourself to ask those questions because so often the answers are no looking at this so whenever you come on you send me this huge document this document i contributed a little bit to it but a lot of it’s yours it’s 2 000 words did you write this what the hell are you serious it’s 18 it’s 18 or 19. jesus that’s crazy did you write this yeah yeah i i didn’t write the the research on the billy of the week but i wrote the rest that’s crazy yeah so we’re gonna save this and we’re gonna have to come back and talk about it all because we also asked people on twitter so we got a bunch of questions about meta lab uh building a meta lab in india of course we got tons of newsletter questions we got tons of tax questions which is kind of an interesting one and then of course we get the same question of like what would you do if you started now um we’ll we’ll actually answer them next so hopefully we can record on tuesday i don’t know if you’re available but uh when your episodes are some of the most popular um this month we’re gonna cross six hundred thousand downloads and uh you’re a big part of that thank you this is fun i always love having you here because i feel like when we talk i’m more of a fan than a co-host dude i just love coming on because it’s not like you guys have such a unique format and it’s so awesome to see you guys actually like getting huge right like i feel like i i remember listening to you guys like two years ago and you’re like my only podcast subscription basically so it’s awesome to see you getting so big it’s wicked yeah last week we were ranked 14. the goal by the end of the year was top 10. i think that we’re cracking the code i think there’s a world where when you think of like business podcasts it will be like of course like jocko because he’s like up there it’ll be tim ferriss because he’s been the best for a while and then there’s guy razz he’s been the best for a while but i think there’s a world where we’re going to be up there um in a very short amount of time and i’m excited for that and you’re part of it so like as we as our podcast gets bigger because you’re the most popular guest so are you awesome no i i love doing these it’s so fun uh thank you dude well let’s do yeah next week let’s do an ama or whatever and yeah we’ll do that we should get sean on and do do a full-on ama we’re gonna i’m gonna ask him his baby’s just now old enough where uh maybe he’s he’s he isn’t having his back yeah he’s getting his life back so we’re gonna do it sean and i are in austin on june 3rd and then miami june 4th and then you want to come and travel and do some [ __ ] with that yeah i just did the canadian border i’ve got a mandatory 14-day quarantine yeah but they’re going to reopen soon so once it’s reopened i’d love to do it live great we already have it all lined up daddy hubspot we’ll we’ll foot the bill we’re good to go open bar all right thank you andrew this is awesome i could be what i want to i put my law in it like no days off on a road let’s travel never looking back