Shaan Puri is interviewed by David Perell (known as “The Writing Guy”) on his podcast “How I Write.” Shaan shares his frameworks for storytelling — including intention and obstacle, the 5-second moment of change, stakes, and how to build a binge bank. The conversation covers writing voice, humor, editing, framing ideas, and how to train someone else to write in your style.
Speakers: Shaan Puri (host/guest), David Perell (interviewer, “How I Write” podcast)
Introduction: The 11x Episode [00:00:00]
Shaan: All right, look — Shaan here. I don’t want to toot my own horn, but beep beep. This is an interview that somebody else did with me. David Perell, who you might know online as “the writing guy,” invited me out to San Francisco and we did an interview for his podcast called “How I Write.” My episode is doing so well — I have this little Chrome extension, and this thing is doing 11x. 11x means it is 11 times higher performing than his normal video.
Something good is in this video, because it’s doing 11x on YouTube. And it’s all about storytelling, it’s all about writing. It’s stuff that a lot of people ask me about, but I’d never taken the time to sit down and talk about it. Well, David got me to sit down and tell you everything I know.
I hope you like it. I was a little sick during the interview, but it was my Michael Jordan Flu Game. I came prepared and I brought the heat. I’m really hyping this up because I’m excited about it. I’m really proud of this interview. A lot of people are messaging about it. David asked if we could run it on our feed, so we took the episode from him, we’re going to run it here. It’s basically an interview where he’s the interviewer and I’m the guest, talking about storytelling and writing. If you like those two things, you’re going to like this episode. Enjoy.
The Binge Bank: Building a Content Library [00:01:30]
David: This podcast was probably the biggest increase in terms of how much I admired a guest and how much that grew through the prep process. I want to compliment you on that. There are a lot of things that you do really well in your writing that I’m not good at. I’m here with a bunch of questions, and I want to make my writing way better. The place I want to start is storytelling. I have no frameworks for thinking about storytelling.
Shaan: Before you do storytelling, can I give you a compliment on your compliment?
David: Yeah.
Shaan: Great compliment — very specific. But the second thing is actually a writing tip. The thing you said, where you’re like, I started going down your rabbit hole and my respect for you went way up during that process — I learned this from two guys, Dylan and Henry. They were like 21 when I met them. They were recording videos. I was like, how many views do these get? And they were like, oh, nobody watches these. And I’m like, but you guys are really trying. He says, yeah, we started thinking about it differently. Instead, we said: I’m creating a binge bank.
I was like, what’s a binge bank? He goes, it’s when you stack material so that, even though each one of these has low view counts — if somebody ever says, I’m curious about this guy, what is he all about? In the next hour, they’d walk out with my reputation way higher with them. They’d feel like they know me, they like me, they respect me.
It changed the way I thought about that. I used to be very result-driven. If it’s not immediately paying off, it’s hard for me to get excited. But when I thought of the binge bank, I just thought: I need to create this library. If David is going to do research, he’s going to spend an hour going down the rabbit hole. I need to leave a breadcrumb trail so that by the end he’s like, I love this guy.
Create a binge bank. It’s so much more valuable than a resume or portfolio. People will get curious about you — give them a way to just binge your content like it’s a Netflix show. After two hours, they should feel like you’re the man. That’s a goal people should have.
David: What do you do to do that intentionally?
Shaan: The first thing is you don’t get discouraged by how small your thing is today. You’re either going to willpower your way through it, be very wise and say results take time — I’m neither of those things. Bad at willpower, and not that wise. So you have to trick yourself. And the way to trick yourself is to say: this one thing doesn’t have to go viral for this to be successful. This is for my binge bank. I know this asset is there for me.
The Core of Storytelling: Intention and Obstacle [00:06:00]
David: Let me dive into storytelling. I want to talk about what you’ve learned from it, and maybe the meta of how you learned new skills.
Shaan: The storytelling thing is cool because everybody intuitively knows storytelling is a dope ability. I look for this mismatch between things that have a lot of value but that you’re not taught — or even better, it sounds lame to say you’re working on it. If I find that, I’m like, oh, this is a good one. Another example is enthusiasm. If you’re around somebody with high energy enthusiasm, you like that person. It’s an inherently likable trait. But nobody will ever be like, yeah, I’m practicing my enthusiasm. That sentence doesn’t even compute.
So if there’s a thing that has value that other people don’t practice — and even better, it’s taboo or lame to say you do it — I’ve found those are actually premium skills, because you differentiate yourself in the marketplace.
Storytelling is one of those. If you’re like, I am working on getting funnier, people are like, are you trying to be a comedian? But funny people — everybody loves them, whether it’s relationships, work, content creation. If your humor level goes up, people will like it better. Nobody practices, so what do you expect? Everything is downstream of practice.
Shaan: So who’s the best in the world at storytelling? That’s the next question. One of the people that came to mind when I Googled around was Aaron Sorkin. He’s written The West Wing, The Newsroom, The Social Network. In interviews he says this thing. They ask, what’s the key to storytelling? He says, I could teach a 30-second masterclass. It’s just this: intention and obstacle. He said it even better: I worship at the altar of intention and obstacle.
I was like, I don’t know what he’s talking about, but the way this guy is serious about it tells me I need to dig in.
So what does this mean? At any given moment, the hero of the story — whether it’s you or someone you’re talking about — has to have a very clear intention. What do they want? And underneath that: why do they want it, how badly do they want it, what happens if they don’t get it? That’s intention. And then obstacle — who’s in the way? Harry Potter wants to live. What’s in his way? Voldemort, trying to kill him. The most powerful wizard of all time is trying to kill him.
Basically, if you’re watching any movie, you should be able to pause at any moment and point at the screen and say: what do they want right now, and what’s in their way? If you ever go five minutes without that being clear, people’s attention will drift away.
Once I realized that, I made it the central premise of any story.
Shaan: The more interesting thing is — it doesn’t have to be life or death. Most people think: Harry Potter trying to live, Voldemort trying to kill him. But you get bonus points when you can do intention and obstacle on a low-stakes moment.
I wanted a croissant, and all the places were closed, but I needed my croissant. The audience has to believe that you truly needed it — and if you actually did, that’s best.
I’ll give an example. I was at an executive offsite. My company had just gotten acquired and I was now part of a 2,000-person company. I felt a little out of place. We were supposed to go around the circle and share something that happened recently. Every single person did it in a work context — we were working on this thing but this problem came up, legal said this — boring, boring, boring.
I was like, yeah, recently I had a big day. Pause. Get people curious. I said: I just moved out of the house — I’m living in my own place, been there a year, but I’ve never invited my mom over. And my mom’s been badgering me: why don’t you invite me over? What she doesn’t know is I’ve never invited her over because I don’t know how to host. She was always the host. If someone came over, I didn’t know how to do adult things.
People are kind of laughing. And then I tell the story about cooking Brussels sprouts for the first time.
Everyone was entertained. During the break, everybody made a point to come up and say, dude, that story was hilarious. And for me, it was just another example of using storytelling even on low-stakes moments — it actually builds likability more than a dramatic story like, I was skiing and there was an avalanche.
Stakes, Change, and Signature Stories [00:16:00]
David: What did you learn from the book Storyworthy?
Shaan: Storyworthy is an amazing book by a teacher who’s a 20-time storytelling champion of The Moth. In the book he has one thing I really took: stakes. Every great story needs stakes — you have to make clear what’s at stake if the hero doesn’t get what they want. And his answer was: the stakes come from the emotion. If you believe that the other person was going to feel a certain way, the story has stakes.
His key insight: a story is a 5-second moment of change.
Everything you tell in the story comes to this one moment — 5 seconds where the character is transformed. Every romcom is basically: the guy’s a player and he’s never going to settle down. That’s the start. The ending is always the exact opposite — he’s chasing her, proposing, wants to settle down. Every movie is the same exercise: watch the opening minute, and the end is going to be that character’s life, belief system, or habits as the exact opposite.
The heart of the story is the 5-second moment when the transformation actually happens. And it’s usually when they lost it all, hit rock bottom, had no choice but to be brave. Everything is based on that. If you don’t know what’s the 5-second moment of change for your main character, you don’t really have a great story.
David: How does this apply to the story of a company?
Shaan: Let’s take Airbnb. The beginning of their origin story: we were broke jokes. Not only did we not have a successful company, we didn’t even have an idea. We were all designers — and the narrative was, you’ve got to be an engineer to build a tech company. The moment of change: they didn’t have enough money to pay rent. One of them had this crazy idea — there’s a design conference in town, hotels are sold out, what if we rent out our space? Put an air mattress. Three people came, stayed, paid, had a great time. Holy crap, this might be a thing.
Then there are several holy crap moments: running out of money again so they did the Obama O’s cereal thing, competing with Rocket Internet. Each of those micro-stories is about the transformation.
The way I’ve learned this is called signature stories. Your signature stories are the four or five stories that, if you could only tell me those, I would know everything there is to know about you. Your origin story, your pivoting story — I’m assuming you didn’t just create Write of Passage because life was good and you were great at everything.
David: I worked at a New York ad agency. My boss called me into his office. I’d written “epic” in a pitch deck and he told me, you’re not in college anymore, we don’t write like that here. He said I needed to improve my writing. I wasn’t a good writer. Seven months out of college, I got laid off. I got laid off because I’m not a good writer. Uhoh. I’ve got to learn this craft.
Shaan: Let me workshop that. You have the elements, but the act one — you didn’t focus on the pain enough. The intention, the obstacle, the feelings at that time. You said you weren’t doing too well, but then you mentioned getting a raise, which is a conflicting message. Never let the truth get in the way of a great story.
Zoom into moments where you felt the opposite of how you feel at the end. At the end you feel proud and you’ve overcome. At the beginning, you probably felt embarrassed, insecure. A little anecdote — like, a new guy just got hired and I was training him, and he got promoted before me — makes it real.
The five-second moment: what triggered the turnaround? You fast-forwarded the montage too fast. What’s the first thing you started to do to get momentum? What resistance did you feel? The Pixar rule: the audience loves the hero because of the way they try, not because they win.
Writing Like You Talk [00:28:00]
David: How is storytelling different for you in writing versus speaking?
Shaan: It’s not that different. One of my biggest writing rules is write like you talk. Most people have this false thing — from school, I think. School teaches you to write essays, use a big vocabulary, six pages minimum double-spaced, all the things that don’t work in the real world. What school teaches you is basically: pretend to be something you’re totally not. Good writing in the real world is simple, easy to read, entertaining, has a voice.
So if I’m going to write a story, I’ll actually say it first, then just write down what I said. For most people, the blank page is the most intimidating thing. But if you’re stuck, just say it out loud. What’s the story? What makes it interesting? Where does it start, where does it end? Then start writing.
Shaan: In writing I’ll use a lot of parentheses — breaking the fourth wall. When you’re talking you can use dramatic pauses, but that’s harder to do in writing. So some tools are a little different. But 80 to 90% of it is the same.
David: Does the pacing change for different platforms?
Shaan: Definitely. A common misconception is that shorter is always better — anything can be any length as long as it remains interesting. But understand your level of credibility with the audience. On a podcast you can riff. On cold traffic on the internet, you better have an amazing headline and a first line that matches it. TikTok — if it’s not interesting in the first nine seconds, you’re gone. Podcast — people aren’t swiping away in the first 30 seconds, they’re not consuming it that way. Know your medium.
Hooks vs. Frames [00:34:00]
David: How do you think about hooks?
Shaan: I actually think hooks are somewhat overrated. What’s underrated is frames.
A frame is: you take an idea and depending on the frame you put on it, the idea can be this big or this big. Same content about Hasan Minhaj and low-status comedy — I could say “here’s what he did at the start of his thing,” or I could say, “here’s what you can learn about public speaking from one of the greatest public speakers in the world.” Or: “here’s how to not make an ass out of yourself at a dinner party.” I change the frame, and now the same content is relevant to a totally different reader.
Hooks are about the words you’re going to write. Frames are about the idea — how you’re going to make that idea relevant, how you’re going to connect two ideas that seem unrelated.
The real great writers are great at framing their ideas more so than just coming up with that perfect one-line hook.
David: Let’s get concrete. You wrote a super viral Clubhouse thread. Why did you write it the way you did?
Shaan: The other version was written by the guy who built Secret, a super-viral app that raised a hundred million dollars and then died. He had credibility — but he was extremely dry, told no story, used 12th-grade jargon. “Clubhouse is an existential threat. Time-to-value ratio.” It felt like homework.
Mine said: everybody thinks X, but I think Y. And the most important part: here’s how I think it’s going to go down — not “here’s why I’m right.” Here’s how it’s going to go down is gossip. It’s a story. Here’s why is logic and rationale.
I wrote it almost like a screenplay. I said: you’re the founder of Clubhouse. You’re winning. Everybody’s talking about your app. Kanye’s in your DMs. VCs are throwing money at you. I set it up like a story. That’s not how most business/tech Twitter writing goes — most of it is an intelligence contest. I was telling a story.
Peak State: Writing With Energy [00:42:00]
David: What have you learned from Miss Excel?
Shaan: She doesn’t follow the typical advice — post consistently, find your niche. She says: I first change my own energy. I get myself into a peak state of mind. I let ideas come to me. When an idea hits, I run to my phone, hit record, and do it. Because I believe all content is just energy transferred through the phone. If I feel excited about this insight, I want to get you excited about it, too. And the best way to do that is for me to be there first.
This is underrated for writers. No athlete goes on the field without warming up and being hyped. No stage performer goes on stage cold. But almost every writer starts cold, sits down somewhat miserably, and then there’s this weird glory from the martyrdom. I think that’s all stupid. Get yourself into a great state, then sit down and write, and let that energy rip through you.
A lot of times people have an idea away from their computer — at the bar, on a walk — and when they sit down three days later, they can’t capture the same energy. You end up writing in such a sober state that your writing ends up boring and sterile.
David: How does peak state actually work in practice?
Shaan: State change is three things.
One: radical change in your physiology. Sprint, do push-ups, dance, dump your face in cold water. It’s the fastest way to change how you feel. A professional poker player friend does wind sprints in the parking lot during tournament breaks — not to be a better runner, but to make better decisions when he gets back to the table. That’s his edge.
Two: change in your focus. Where you point the laser of your attention is everything. If you have to write something and there’s a deadline and your focus is on the deadline — that’s the wrong place to focus. Focus on the thing you want.
Three: your story. What story are you telling yourself? If my story is, I had to drive an hour to come here, this means I won’t be able to do this other thing — obviously I’m not going to perform well. But if my story is: there’s going to be one person who listens to this and hears one thing I say, and they’re going to write me a letter someday saying that podcast changed my life — I approach it differently. Different words will come out of my mouth if my story about what’s happening is different.
David: One of the moments I had around story: I work with a coach, and I was in a writing slump — I wasn’t proud of what I was doing. He said, what is it that you want? I said, I want to be a creative force. He said, hold on — what did you do when you were in a great flow? I said, I’d find an interesting idea, figure it out for myself, then share it with others. He said: that’s not your story right now. You’re focused on being a creative force. Get back to finding an interesting idea, figuring it out for yourself, sharing it. Ever since that, no more slop.
Shaan: Yes. That’s exactly right. And this is the troubleshooting tool: if you’re in the specifics and stuck, go general. If you’re stuck in the general, go specific. Zoom right out — what am I actually trying to do here? Or zoom all the way in — what’s the most interesting idea I’ve come across in the last two days?
Being In Your Head vs. Analytical Thinking [00:50:00]
David: You have the line “if you’re in your head, you’re dead.” But at the same time, you’re always deconstructing things. Those seem like polar opposites.
Shaan: Two things. One: the most valuable traits you can have sound like opposites when you pair them together. An entrepreneur who is both visionary and detail-oriented — that’s Steve Jobs. Visionary, but also pixel-level detail. The same person. Those things don’t have to be opposites. You can have both gears.
So: I need to be in my head when the problem is logic. I can use logic to ask, is this fear even true? What’s the probability of it? If that happened, how would I handle it? I guess it’s not so scary after all. If the problem is emotion, you solve it with emotion. Use them at the right times.
“If you’re in your head, you’re dead” is more of a life philosophy than a work philosophy. People who go around life not feeling a whole lot, not being present in the moment they’re in — they’re missing life. That’s the problem.
David: Ray Bradbury has a sign above his typewriter that says “don’t think.” He says he’s trying to surprise himself at the keyboard, and you can only do that if you’re not in your head.
Shaan: That’s one of the ways to get unstuck. If you’re stuck in the specifics, go general. If you’re stuck in the general, go specific. It’s useful to redirect the brain. I’m not going to turn the brain off — I’m going to redirect it.
Voice: Writing to One Person [00:57:00]
David: You’re really good at putting your voice on the page, and specifically at getting inside the head of a reader — building trust, breaking the fourth wall, creating a friendly casualness. How do you do that?
Shaan: Have you read the Boron Letters?
David: Years ago.
Shaan: The Boron Letters are by copywriter Gary Halbert, writing to his son while he’s in jail. It’s like 23 letters. He’s teaching his son everything he knows about copywriting and marketing. And because of the way he wrote it — warm, casual, with that parent-to-child relationship — he’s like, and this, dear Bond, is where things get interesting — and then he’d say, you’re probably wondering why I said this, we’ll get to that, but first a little detour.
I was like, I like this style. So I started stealing it. I write like I’m writing to one person — my little young grasshopper. It’s like my kid, my little cousin, me when I was younger. I know what you’re thinking, blah blah blah, but mama mia, you’re wrong.
Other times it’s the opposite — I’m the beginner. I’ll be like: being the idiot that I am, I decided to do these three things. I knew there’s probably a better way. You’re probably staring at this right now wondering how this guy could be so dumb. And then I just address what I imagine the reader is thinking in the moment.
It’s very frustrating to listen to a podcast where someone says this amazing thing and the host doesn’t ask the follow-up — wait, wait, what do you mean it just worked? How? I try to do that in writing too.
Dave Chappelle and the Power of Framing [00:06:00 second hour]
David: Let’s talk about distribution. If an absolute expert has written something great and wants to know how to distribute it — how do you talk them through that?
Shaan: I think distribution is built over time. It’s not something you can do from day one. It’s earned. My buddy Jason used to say the one-two-three rule of interestingness: tell me one interesting thing, I’ll say that’s interesting. Tell me two, I’ll say those were interesting. Tell me three, and I’ll say you’re interesting. On the internet, that number might be 20. You have to consistently be telling somebody interesting things before they’re like, this person is interesting, I can’t wait for their next thing.
David: On Twitter, you’ve built a huge audience without writing that many things. What do you understand about that platform that others miss?
Shaan: The generic best practice is be consistent and define your niche. I don’t really do that. I think I won in spite of not following those practices — and if I had followed them, I’d be at a million followers instead of 400,000. So I don’t think the right takeaway is those are wrong. The right takeaway is: it would have been even bigger if I had.
What I did get right was: I knew when everybody’s attention was on a certain subject and I had an interesting take. It’s not my writing so much as the thinking. Clear writing is just clear thinking. Writing helps you think better, and better thinking helps you write better.
I had an interesting thought to say, I said it at the right time when people were paying attention to that subject, and I wrote it in an interesting way that helped it spread. I wrote a thread about the metaverse that went super viral — I don’t think it’s because of how I wrote it. I think it’s because the underlying idea was genuinely a good one.
Shaan: By the way — I thought of the best example of framing while you were talking. Have you seen the Dave Chappelle thing called Unforgiven?
David: No.
Shaan: Dave Chappelle wanted people to boycott his show on Netflix. He wasn’t getting royalties. He tells a story about being 14 or 15, doing his first set at a comedy club, killing it, going backstage. An older comedian says, I’ve got an audition coming up, mind if I use that joke? Chappelle didn’t want to, but he felt uncomfortable, agreed. Months later, that guy goes on before him and tells his joke. Kills. Chappelle tries to confront him afterward — he’s a 15-year-old kid — and the guy grabs him and says, I was just asking to be nice. I could have just taken it.
Then Chappelle tells another story — he’s 22, walking around New York, broke, has a date that night. Sees guys running the three-card monte hustle. He thinks he’s figured it out, puts all his money down, loses. Watches, realizes the tourists are in on it. He warns the next mark. The hustler confronts him: never get between a man and his next meal.
Then he finally gets to Netflix. They didn’t ask if they could put the show on Netflix. They just took his name, his face, all his content. And then people said: well, you signed the contract, Dave. He goes: I was a 21-year-old kid, I hired lawyers to read these contracts. They told me this was standard Hollywood stuff, don’t worry about it. Later I realized those lawyers all go to dinner together every week. I was the mark. I signed it, but whatever.
By the end of that, you’re ready to delete Netflix if they don’t take the show down. And it exactly what happened — it went super viral, people boycotted, Netflix voluntarily pulled it.
He reframed the problem entirely. Not “I’m getting screwed and I want money.” More universal: you’re getting picked on by the man, they’re all in on it. I thought that was the most brilliant example of PR I’ve ever seen.
Editing and Humor [00:16:00 second hour]
David: It seems like you write off the cuff. How do you edit for the emotion you’re talking about?
Shaan: First thing I learned was from Sam Parr: the walkaway. You do the shitty first draft — dump it — and you walk away. The mistake I used to make was editing right away. Don’t do that.
I read what I wrote, then I forget about it. I go out, play with my kids, go for a walk. I’m not consciously thinking about it. Then I come back — 4, 6, 8, 24 hours later. I read the thing and immediately I’ll be like: oh, this is bad, change this. Oh, I wanted this takeaway, it’s not coming through. Where can I punch that up?
The analogy: imagine a river flowing. Ideas want to flow. People are going to love this. But there are some rocks blocking the flow. If I just remove the rocks, the water will flow on its own. Rather than thinking I have to create something good — just remove the suck. That’s all I do.
I’ll look at it after I come back and say: is this doing what I wanted? Does this have the thing? If not, what are the rocks I can remove? This part’s boring. The intro doesn’t hint at what’s to come. The ending is just… yeah.
David: What have you learned about writing with humor?
Shaan: Humor is the sauce, not the entree. Some people write something to be funny — that’s not me. I’m trying to make a point, but I’m going to make you laugh along the way, which makes this more enjoyable. Depressurizes it.
All humor is surprise. Every joke is a setup and a punchline — but if you see the punchline coming, it’s not funny. You set up an expectation and then you subvert it.
Seinfeld starts an article in the New York Times: “When I got my first apartment in Manhattan in the hot summer of 1976, there was no pooper scooper law and the streets were covered in dog crap. I signed the rental agreement, stepped outside, and my car had been towed. Despite this, I still thought this was the greatest place I’d ever been in my life.”
The surprise: despite all that, he loved it. And “pooper scooper” — some words are just inherently funny.
Shaan: What Theo Von does is interesting. He basically improvises. He uses random language, makes up stories that are kind of believable, and keeps a deadpan face. You can practice that. Take any object and just come up with six different funny ways to refer to it. It trains your brain to think differently. And combining traits uncommonly together is very valuable. You don’t need to be the funniest or the smartest. Pretty smart and kind of funny — that’s the best combo.
Teaching Someone to Write in Your Voice [00:28:00 second hour]
David: You built the Milk Road newsletter and trained another writer to write in your voice. How do you teach writing?
Shaan: We had to send the email every morning at 6 AM. I’m like, I’m not doing that — I know no matter how fun this is, I’ll hate it by day 30. From day one, I said: I’m not going to write this, but it’s going to be in my voice.
I hired a guy who had never written before, professionally or otherwise. The newsletter had a consistent format, so it wasn’t like 10 different things. I broke down why we write it the way we write it, line by line.
Our opening line at Milk Road was always like: good morning, this is the Milk Road, we are the number one source for figuring out what happened in crypto yesterday. Think of us like a toaster strudel — a fresh, tasty treat for you in the mornings. Then we’d tag a joke, like: what the f happened to toaster strudels anyway? Kids these days are missing out.
Can we get you to smile? Can we give you a reason to open this that’s not based on the Bitcoin price?
Shaan: The second thing: he was doing the school thing, where he thought he had to be a different guy — do sophisticated analysis, create some fake thing he thought other people might want. And I said: the whole point of writing is to take you and push it out. Don’t try to create this fake thing.
He would pick a subject and the writing was fine, but the subject was boring. I said: do you care about this? Would you have ever texted me or sent me a voice note being like, dude, did you hear about this, this is amazing? He said no. And I said: cool, why are we telling 200,000 people about this if you wouldn’t tell me?
So every morning I made him send me a voice note first. Just tell me the news before you write anything. He’d be like, oh yeah, everybody on Twitter’s freaking out because of this thing, or the price is up today because of rumors about X. And he could stop himself: I would never say this to somebody, it’s boring to me, it’ll be boring to you. It filtered out the boring subjects beautifully.
The two big things: show what good looks like, give examples, then install that filter — if it’s not interesting in a voice memo, it’s definitely not going to be interesting in long text.
David: Why was the dolphin thing so funny?
Shaan: Relatable and unexpected. We said we’re the second best thing in the world — immediately you’re like, what’s first? And I can’t say a serious thing. I have to say an unserious thing. The first best thing is that feeling, rolling down the window and doing the dolphin with your hand. We all know that feeling. It’s surprising, likable, funny — you can do it in one line. Very efficient.
David: Thanks, man.
Shaan: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.