Peter Rahal, founder of RxBar (sold to Kellogg’s for $600M in 2017), walks through the founding story of RxBar — how he and his co-founder Jared started making bars in his mom’s basement with $10,000, used CrossFit gyms as their initial distribution channel, and how a simple rebrand unlocked mass-market growth. He also introduces his new company David Bar, shares four business ideas he sees as white spaces, and discusses the psychology of selling a company and going back for more.
Speakers: Sam Parr (host), Shaan Puri (host), Peter Rahal (guest, founder of RxBar and David Bar)
Introduction [00:00:00]
Sam: Today we have the creator of RxBar on the podcast. This guy started in his mom’s basement with $5,000, built a protein bar, and sold it five years later for $600 million. He tells us the story of RxBar, his new protein bar, and why he’s doing it again. We also got to brainstorm four other ideas he thinks somebody could start today — trends, opportunities, white spaces in the market, and how he thinks about them. That’s this episode with Peter Rahal.
The RxBar Origin Story [00:00:45]
Sam: All right, so here’s how I want to start this. You created this little bar, the RxBar, that you made in your mom’s basement with your elementary school buddy. You each kicked in $5,000, and five years later you sell it for $600 million. Which is amazing. And now you’re back and you’re doing this bar —
Peter: Yeah, the David Bar, which I’ve been eating pretty religiously.
Sam: All right, let’s talk a little bit about RxBar and then David. I think generally the story is out there so I don’t want to make you rehash too much of it. Could you give us the cliff notes, and then I want to latch on to something — you said you read one article on Inc and forwarded it to Jared. Give us the cliff notes of RxBar first.
Peter: Yeah, so the cliff notes: in Chicago, 2010, 2011, 2012 — at the time there was an emerging tech scene. Groupon was there. It was sort of like, if you weren’t doing some sort of information technology, you were a loser. There was no attention or love for a food brand. It was just like, no status.
So we just wanted a good job, we wanted an opportunity to be successful. I had a background in food, which was really helpful on the supply chain side. And then Jared is like my total counterpart — very levelheaded, reliable, organized. I’m more of the creative type.
I always like to trivialize innovation, because as an entrepreneur you have all these ideas, and it was basically like I just wrote an email and was like, “Hey Jar,” and sent it to him — “10,000 bucks, we could do a nutrition bar.” It was like some bad article. Nothing to it.
Sam: What was the premise of the article?
Peter: It was sort of like an inspirational thing — like, you can start a business, very low-cost ways to start a company. And it cited protein bars. It was like a WikiHow article, which tells you why it’s a low-status thing to do, right. Anyone can do it.
I was always into nutrition bars, so we just started taking actions towards making it. And where you start is not where you end up.
I was into CrossFit, and I saw a distribution channel emerge. It was very clear. I looked at Whole Foods and traditional food retail and had no idea how to get there — it was hyper-competitive. But CrossFit gyms were popping up in 2012, 2013. No competition. You were not allowed on the shelf if you weren’t Paleo. That was the perfect example of an uncompetitive market — small, growing like crazy, and we could build distribution there. And we could make the product at home. So we just went for it.
Once you burn the boats and jump off the bridge and figure out how to fly…
Sam: So you’re literally making bars in your mom’s basement?
Peter: Yeah. We had a five-quart mixer, and then eventually a 20-quart vertical mixer. We didn’t know how to form the products — we had to figure out how to form and package them.
Sam: And you said it felt horrible. People were making fun of you?
Peter: Yeah. You just can’t care what people think. It’s also a great test of who actually cares about you. You’re the sum of who you surround yourself with — you want your friends supporting you and saying you have to work on the weekends, not trying to drag you out and pull you down.
Looking from the outside at what Jared and I were doing, there was no way it was going to be successful. It was just some local little thing.
Using CrossFit as a Distribution Channel [00:05:30]
Sam: Were you doing CrossFit, or did you just see it as a distribution channel?
Peter: I was doing CrossFit. I got into the CrossFit religion. So I’d take a box to my gym and be like, “Hey, I made these.” There were little consumer insights — “What do you think?” — and then I’d build a relationship with the owner. “I would love to sell some product here.” Of course they’re good people, and it starts there.
Then in theory: if it’s going to be successful at one CrossFit gym, why wouldn’t it be successful across others?
Sam: What did they say at first to the dark bar? Were they any good at first?
Peter: They were really good at first because they were made to order. We never carried any inventory, so everything was super fresh. That certainly helped. And the customer back then was all Paleo people who were very familiar with Larabar, so there was a familiarity to it that was helpful for adoption.
Sam: I think we had a guy from Vital Farms come on and he did the same thing at CrossFit — used it as the initial distribution for the same reason. He didn’t know how to get into retail but he knew this community. And what he realized was: he gave them mini fridges. They didn’t have a fridge already, so he’s like, “I’ll give you the fridge, but you stock my stuff in there.” Sure enough, they just kept it going. He used CrossFit to get to like $20-30 million a year in sales with CrossFit as the main engine.
Peter: And same for us. Then we merchandised on top of his refrigerators.
Sam: So you’re like: if this works at one, it’ll work at many. Then what — you’re just knocking on doors every day?
Peter: We wanted to get data on convenience stores, grocery stores, other places of distribution. So we tested at all those areas — more normal markets with regular competition — and the brand didn’t work. Velocities at a CrossFit gym would be maybe 80 bars a week, whereas the convenience store and the local grocery store was like one or four a week.
Obviously we would rather be in every CrossFit gym across the country prior to any other distribution. So we were laser focused on putting the product where it was successful, meeting the customer where they shop.
The whole plan was: let’s get to scale through this early adopter market, and then figure out how to cross the chasm once we have some scale, once we’re commercially produced and out of the kitchen. Be in the bar at CrossFit, get some scale, and then figure out the crossing the chasm part once we’re close to that.
Revenue Growth and the Rebrand [00:09:15]
Sam: I kind of triangulated a bunch of articles and it looks like your revenue was something like $2 million a year, then $7 million, then $160 million. Is that accurate? And if so, I think that coincides with the rebrand — like, the new labels were the greatest value creation that’s ever existed.
Peter: Yeah, basically. It’s like: dot com and Amazon for three years, put our foot into some retailers, and the old branding didn’t work. Didn’t have product-market fit. Whenever we started to go to the mass market, the non-core customer was like, “this ain’t working.”
So we timed the rebranding with retail. There was a year before the $160 million — $36 million — and that was basically getting into what I’d call early adopters of food retail: Wegmans, Publix, these regional ones that are really high quality. Once that worked, the larger ones adopted. So it went: $7, $36, $161 million.
Sam: That’s insane. And using profitable sales to finance the growth?
Peter: Yeah, we didn’t have a big equity check come in to finance inventory. Sales cure all. And on dot com, they give you cash before you ship the product, so the cycle is much better.
Sam: All right. Who did the rebrand? You hired an agency?
Peter: We hired an agency called Scott Victor — very talented brand strategist. But something I want to emphasize: people come to me wanting to do rebrands all the time and they’re so fixated on the agency, thinking the agency comes in and does it. But the responsibility and accountability goes on the brand owner — to articulate the problem to solve and communicate it in a brief for the creative to figure out how to solve it.
Sam: What did you write in that brief?
Peter: So the output of our design is very simple. We had a name problem: “RX” meant prescription in the mass market, but in CrossFit it meant doing something of a high standard. In the culture of CrossFit, if you did a workout the first question you got was “did you do it RX?” It had a different meaning in that culture than it did in normal American culture. So the name meant nothing and was a source of confusion. We minimized the logo.
Second: when you formulate a product with minimal ingredients, you can claim anything — gluten-free, soy-free, dairy-free, high protein — the list goes on. None of that mattered when we sampled it to people. The only thing that mattered was when I flipped over the back and said, “It’s just three egg whites, two dates, six almonds, four cashews.” That back-of-label thing was a value communication.
Third: we were in protein no man’s land. The market was at 20 grams of protein; we were at 12. So for protein people, they’re like, “Yeah, not enough.” But if you just lead with egg whites — three egg whites is the first thing, our hierarchy — that creates a lot of consumer surplus. When you go to a cafe for breakfast and get egg whites, you get charged a premium. Egg whites are associated with premium, quality, they’re more expensive. That was a great way to communicate value.
And we didn’t want to be Paleo-positioned because that is a death trap, a laziness trap. All those factors are laid out in a brief, and then the designer — who’s really a brand strategist — synthesizes and pulls it out.
Introducing David Bar [00:13:00]
Sam: Now you have this new thing — and I feel like you did an amazing job on the brand. I think me and Shaan talked about this: “Did you see the RxBar guy? He’s back, he’s got this new bar.” We loved the name, loved the branding right off the bat.
Can I read some of the copy from his site, Shaan?
Shaan: Yeah, do it. It’s beautiful.
Sam: Your new thing is a protein bar. The whole stick is that Quest, which is a leading protein bar, is only 20 grams of protein but 150 calories. You’re roughly 150 calories and 26 or 27 grams of protein. The copy is beautiful. It says: “The genius of a product is it has the protein of a meal but the calories of a snack. We thank our predecessors in the protein industry but we’ll take it from here. Meet David, your protein bar idealized.” And then: “I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.”
All these are like instant quotes all over the copy. And then: “Protein is essential to maintaining your skin’s firmness and elasticity, hair and scalp, nail health — it participates in practically every process of a cell in your body.”
Here’s the part I love — you have this graph on your website comparing grams of protein per calorie, and you include Quest and Luna and a couple others, but you even include cod. When I saw that I was like, wait — you’re telling me David is even more protein-dense per calorie than cod?
Peter: Yeah, it’s quite good.
Sam: And then you say: “We are a company that is here to make your bodies better. We’re going to give you protein, and it just so happens some of our products might be edible — but some in the future may not be. We built tools to help you increase muscle and decrease fat. That can come in food, beverage, or apparel.” That’s your mission. So you’re giving yourself permission to go way beyond a protein bar.
Peter: And that came from my observation of the nutrition bar space — that’s the most fundamental thing people want. We want to deliver that in the best way possible.
Four Business Ideas: Vasodilator [00:16:00]
Sam: The thing that would be the most fun for us is if we sat down with the founder of RxBar and just brainstormed business ideas. We asked you beforehand and you sent us a list. So let’s start. I’ll just read the name of the thing you wrote without any details, and you pitch the idea.
Idea one: vasodilator.
Peter: Okay, so I think history is really important to study in business — it doesn’t get enough credit. In 2003, 2004, 2005 — I was in high school — this product called NO2 came to market and it just blew up the supplement industry. Pre-workout.
Sam: Yeah. Was that like N.O. Xplode?
Peter: Yeah, and what happened is people started adding different features to it. Having healthy blood flow is really important, and if you look at the market today it’s super — chains and gains, screaming — not sophisticated at all. Just pure gains.
I would say there’s probably an opportunity to commercialize something around the broader benefits of healthy blood flow. For men, ED is a huge one. The positioning is all very, very bodybuilding-oriented, and I think there’s an opportunity for pedestrians.
Shaan: Do you remember the deer one, Sam? It’s like Bucked Up?
Sam: Yeah, exactly. It’s sort of like: dick pills in gas stations versus Hims. There was a guy who came in and spoke at one of my conferences — he created Method Soap, and then he created the Band-Aid brand reboot, and he created Olly gummies. He’s created three brands that are all big in different categories at Target.
He talked about how he could walk through a store like Target and he was looking for a sea of sameness. Any category where they’re all chasing the same target, all positioned the same way. Band-Aids, for example — all boring, neutral, trying to be the color of your skin. So he made a Band-Aid brand that was the opposite: very loud, badge of honor for a boo-boo.
Peter: And I think Eric’s strategy is very much design differentiation — looking for what I call valuable novelty. And actually determining how competitive a category really is.
Sam: Does that mean you want it to be the most competitive?
Peter: You want it to be perceived as very competitive, but then when you actually apply some rigor, it’s actually not that competitive. The protein bar market is a perfect example. Low barrier to entry, lots of noise on the surface, extremely competitive — but if you look at it there’s actually like three players and then a long tail.
Sam: Can you find an uncompetitive market inside a perceived competitive market?
Peter: Yes. It’s unavoidable — like, it’s so easy to make food, so of course everything appears competitive. But Peter Thiel talks about how the best investments seem like bad investments but are actually good. The things that seem like good investments and actually are good investments — the returns aren’t even there. You need to be counter-consensus: find something that looks one way but is actually another.
Sam: So what are those questions you ask?
Peter: Just “tell me more — explain the competitors.” People come to me saying protein bars are so competitive, and I always ask them to explain it. They just can’t. They’re only referencing the volume of brands, not actually identifying who’s good and who’s not. And a lot of times they’re not even consumers of the category, which to me is the opportunity. Why aren’t you a consumer of the category? It’s usually some dissatisfaction — taste, texture, price, something. That’s the opportunity: how do you bring new people to the category?
Sam: Cool. So in the first 90 days of a vasodilator brand, what would you actually do?
Peter: First, I’d look at the literature. It’s basically two searches: one, what does the internet say — what’s the reputation of it, what does culture say? And two, what does the actual literature say? What do the researchers believe?
The reason for the two: on the cultural side, is this a reputation I can overcome? Is there stigma I can’t get past? Or is it contrarian in a good way? And then, second, study the market. How do I define this market? And most importantly — if the market says this is bad but the literature says it has all these benefits, that’s a contrarian opportunity: people disagree with you, but then there’s something there.
Sam: You invested in Lucy, right Shaan?
Shaan: Yeah, Lucy — the nicotine gum. Our buddy John Coogan is involved. And now it’s pouches. At the time the cultural stigma was: nicotine equals bad, aren’t we supposed to be getting rid of cigarettes? Science actually showed some benefits, and it took many years for the business to really explode. For years it was just trying to get enough momentum culturally to get over the hump.
Peter: And that’s Peter Thiel’s approach to consumer — that’s how you actually make money in this business. There are plenty of examples: kombucha, protein bars, collagen, nicotine. And right now, creatine. The science is that it’s one of the most studied supplements of all time with so many benefits, but for years it was this thing only for football Bros. Now women are like, “No, there’s actually a lot of benefit here.”
Sam: And the way you figure it out is just ask your friends. “What do you think of this?” If they’re kind of skeptical — that’s cultural reputation right there. That’s a signal.
Peter: Exactly. If I had to describe my pattern for consumer investing: what is something on the fringes, what is something people disagree with, that if you look at it from a first-principles perspective there’s actually something there?
Sam: One more question before we move to the next idea. I’m a smart guy, I can almost talk myself into anything or talk myself out of anything. What you’re giving examples of are things that are misunderstood. But I can almost justify anything under that umbrella. I don’t have the actual judgment to do it correctly. What are categories you would run away from?
Peter: Fast following. Anything that’s following Liquid Death, following Alipop. You have to be the first one in the controversial, disagreeable thing. You can’t be the second.
Because you’re trying to win big. I read something the other day: in any new category, the market leader will take something like 75% of all the profits, 50% of all the revenues. The spoils really do go to the winner.
And this is why studying history is so important in consumer. That would be true with kombucha, with collagen — these big breakthrough new markets that emerged. The first one to do it well takes all the profits.
Sam: When you say studying history — what does that mean? You’re reading biographies, looking at old financial statements?
Peter: It might be looking through your phone at old photos of a category — what did it look like in 2012? But for me it’s really my own experience going through it, remembering the different trends and new products and just keeping that recollection. It just isn’t talked about. When I see people starting consumer brands it’s kind of like “here’s today, here’s the future.” But the history is such an important piece of the equation. There’s no one writing books on this stuff, so you have to piece it together yourself.
Four Business Ideas: The Night Occasion [00:28:00]
Sam: All right, idea number two: “night occasion in general.” What is that?
Peter: I view myself as an anthropologist. If you look at the morning occasion, it is very fixed — it’s all around coffee, waking up, sunlight. Sunlight observation is a new one; I think Shaan’s been a big change agent in that way. Circadian rhythm, taking supplements, morning pills, whatever rituals are there. The morning occasion is kind of clear in terms of what products and services serve it.
Sleep hygiene and the sleep occasion is something that has become very clear — it’s super important. And if you look at it, there is no coffee of the sleep occasion. At night you have what — magnesium? Maybe one product. No one’s owning it right now.
Shaan: You brush your teeth. Colgate’s got that covered. But there’s a huge opportunity to be the brand for that occasion.
Peter: To me, that’s the opportunity. If I’m an entrepreneur, I’m really studying that.
Sam: That’s a strange insight to have. What made you get there?
Peter: You’ve got to think about everything as occasion-based. The best example is champagne — it dominates the celebration occasion. Outside of that, it’s a terrible product really. For RxBar, it was “on the go, driving somewhere, want something healthy.” But thinking about: everyone’s talking about sleep, you have Eight Sleep, all these brands getting there. But on the consumer side — food, beverage, supplement — there are sleep packs and things, but the real opportunity is: how do you be the coffee of sleep?
Coffee is the biggest drug, the best drug. Is there something like that?
There are some brands working on it — Moon Brew, Beam. One has melatonin, one doesn’t. Melatonin is actually contrarian: people say it’s bad because it’s an exogenous hormone. But it’s also high in antioxidants. Me and my fiancée find ourselves having a small dose beverage before bed and it’s a nice ritual.
Shaan: I think that’s brilliant — basically looking at moments and looking for openings. There’s a Chinese company — I think it was ByteDance — and at their annual meeting their opening slide was all the moments of the day: a 24-hour cycle broken into 15-minute intervals. And they were like: we want to have a product or app for every moment of your day. Totally dominating philosophy.
That creates white spaces. You might think photos is a crowded category — dominated by Facebook and Instagram — and then Snapchat comes out and is like, “Use photos for messaging instead of memories.” Suddenly photos is a wide-open multi-billion-dollar opportunity, just looked at from a different angle.
Peter: I just emphasize: the consumer is all that matters. Putting yourself in their shoes and empathizing with that experience is where it all starts.
Sam: Do you also look for product inspiration from other places? I know some CPG people who travel a lot and are like, “Oh, in Thailand they drink this — if we just take it and wrap it in an American-friendly label, we might have a product.”
Peter: Yeah, basically: consume as much information, collect as many dots so you can connect them at some point. The best example is I had an internship in Belgium and we supplied Innocent Beverage, which is a smoothie company. On their label they would say “one apple, one banana, half a lemon.” I took that dot and connected it to RxBar — two dates, three eggs, six almonds, four cashews on the back label. That insight came purely from observing different markets and brands.
Sam: And it’s all in your head? You’re not journaling or keeping track?
Peter: It’s all in my head, yeah.
Four Business Ideas: Continuous Testosterone Monitor [00:35:30]
Sam: All right, idea number three: continuous testosterone monitor.
Peter: I think the American male cares so much about testosterone. I don’t know if this is fully feasible — we do blood tests — but if you had some way to measure testosterone or broader hormones in a continuous way, like when you wake up I’m at moderate — I think there’s a lot of demand for that. The American male would love it.
Sam: What are your T levels right now, Shaan?
Shaan: Dude, I want to know — am I at 247? Am I 400? Is it higher than my math SAT score? That’s my test.
Sam: I don’t even know what the SAT is out of now. Do you get yours checked, Shaan?
Shaan: I’ve never really gotten it checked, I don’t think. I definitely am not the typical American male. Do you get yours checked, Peter?
Peter: Yeah, I do it quarterly.
Sam: By the way, I was or am an investor in Levels, the continuous glucose monitor. Everyone has to figure this out, and if you do, it’s pretty awesome.
Do you have some crazy Brian Johnson setup where you have someone measuring your nighttime erections and all this stuff?
Peter: No. I’ve actually gone from getting close to being obsessive about measuring everything to now being totally over it. It’s so easy to overdo it. My routine is: I’m currently off supplements right now, just want to get a baseline of my blood markers, I test quarterly, and normally take supplements in the AM and PM.
I think culture is going that way. This is my prediction for 2025: everybody got really inspired and overanalyzed everything through Huberman and Brian Johnson — I love those guys — but for the average person it’s way too much work for way too little payoff. We all kind of know the core four or five things you should do, and most people don’t even do those. Without the basic fundamentals, none of the fine-tuning really matters. So I think there’s going to be a giant retreat back to simplicity and basics for health.
Shaan: For the listener: Brian Johnson is a tech billionaire who spends $2 million a year on his health to live forever. He’s got this thing called the Rejuvenation Olympics where you get your blood work done and it ranks you among thousands of people. There was this woman in the Wall Street Journal — a substitute teacher making $50,000 a year — she just goes for walks and eats healthy, and she was number one on the list. Brian Johnson was like number six. It was pretty funny.
Peter: And I think that’s actually the key: emotional regulation, not being stressed or anxious, is probably more important than obsessing about some other stuff.
Four Business Ideas: A New Religion [00:40:30]
Sam: All right, the most exciting idea you have on this list: “new religion.” Talk to me. I’m ready. Preach.
Peter: Sort of. Religion, I think, is a bad word. I mean something to belong to that helps you guide morality and ethics — a ritual or tradition we can all bond over and feel aligned on.
My hypothesis is that there’s no money to make in religion, so no great talent joins the church, and therefore it hasn’t been innovating. The economics aren’t there for a priest. And therefore there’s a desperate need for innovation.
And then second: no one wants to be Jesus. Someone has to be Jesus. That’s why I think we are where we are right now.
Sam: Wait — have you guys ever gone to a Shabbat?
Shaan: Dude, Shabbat is the best. It’s basically a Friday meal where you don’t use cell phones and you tell everyone how much you love each other. And Saturday, you’re not working — it’s forced.
Sam: Why are you saying there’s no money in it though? These mega churches have a $10 million run rate. The priests are flying private. Have you seen Joel Osteen? That’s a billion-dollar smile right there.
Peter: Yeah, you’re right. Maybe it’s actually the best business of all businesses. I misread that one.
Shaan: I’m pretty sure the Catholic Church is the largest landowner in the entire world. Not to reference Peter Thiel again, but he talks about how the companies that talk about how dominant they are are usually the most vulnerable. The ones that are super dominant always try to downplay it. Same thing with money — the folks bragging about how much they make are the dropshippers, and the people who are silent and pretend it’s not about the money have all the money. That’s the churches.
Sam: I’ve thought about this a bunch of ways. One strategy is to unbundle it. You get God and a higher power, you get community and a Sunday ritual, and you get an operating philosophy for life. That’s the current religion bundle. Then you see things like the NFL on Sunday, Soul Cycle — they have some of those components but not all. Tony Robbins gives you the operating philosophy without God.
For me, that resonated — I want this without saying it’s somebody else deciding my fate. Some people have unbundled it, but it would be very interesting to see somebody try to provide a new bundle. Take a first-principles approach across different domains: the Buddhists have got stuff right, the Jews have got stuff right, Islam’s got stuff right, Christianity too. Build from that perspective and you’d probably come up with something great.
Peter’s Academic Approach to Business [00:44:00]
Sam: You actually have a fairly academic point of view when it comes to operating a business. I think it’s pretty cool — I tend to fall into the “just follow my gut” category. To hear your academic approach, it resonates.
Peter: I wouldn’t call it that. I’m a terrible student but I study a lot.
Sam: What does that mean?
Peter: Literally a terrible student. But all my free time is studying.
Shaan: That’s actually nice for me, because I do the same thing. And sometimes I meet people who are 10 times more successful than me and they’re like, “Yeah, I don’t even think about all that stuff.” I’m like, oh wait, am I wasting my time?
But you’re saying for the design agency: the inputs matter and will dictate the outputs. You were super clear on that. A lot of successful entrepreneurs just sort of handwave — I get the sense it’s not really as handwave as they think, but they’re either downplaying it or they’re like Michael Jordan: “How do you shoot a jump shot?” “I don’t know, I just do it.”
Peter: They’re probably not as introspective and they’re probably not analyzing why they came up with what they came up with. A lot of entrepreneurs are about charging forward. I’m always sort of looking back and studying the past — was it a framework, was it a pattern?
Why Do It Again? The Decision to Build David [00:46:00]
Sam: Let’s do a little introspection on why you’re building David. One way of looking at this: you’ve already beat this level of the video game. You created a protein bar, you won $600 million, you get the nice house in Miami, and it’s done. Of course you could go back and do it again, but maybe you should do a new thing?
Me and Sam talked about this before. There are two types of entrepreneurs: Type Ones are always looking for variety, the next new thing, even though they’re most equipped to go do the thing they know well — they just don’t want to. And then there are “speedrunners,” the Type Twos, who feel like they have a new point of view, new mastery of the game, and they’re excited to go back. Why did you decide to do it again?
Peter: So it was in process — I had a non-compete with Kellogg’s, so that was a constraint. But then I wanted to prove to myself that I wasn’t just a CPG entrepreneur — that I could go do this in other industries. So I actually went to explore different industries.
Synthetic biology, I thought, is fascinating. That’s like science fiction. Biotech is incredible. If we can actually control biology, this would be an amazing thing. So I started studying it, and this is where I think Elon is not a good influence — I was like, “Oh, I can learn anything.” And then very quickly it was like: I can’t learn this stuff. These people spend their whole careers on it. I’m not that smart. I can’t learn new things. And I’m never going to start a business where I can’t pick up the phone to fix a problem. If I don’t have the competency to fix the problem or understand it, that’s a position I never want to be in.
That was a bit of a humbling moment. Then I came back, and when my non-compete came up I was like, “Oh my God, I see it.” I couldn’t help but see a vision of something to do. And I was like, you know what, I’m okay with being a Type Two. Once I die, my gravestone can just say “protein bar.” I’m okay with that. You’ve got to do what you’re good at.
One thing I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older — I’m 38 now — I do find it harder to learn new things. I’m a later adopter. Why do it again? I see a huge opportunity to grow the market, delight customers, and — are you calling the shots?
Sam: Are you the CEO?
Peter: I’m the CEO, in the office every day, at manufacturing right now.
Post-Exit Psychology [00:50:00]
Sam: You have a four-month-old kid, you’re about to get married. You have roughly nine figures liquid — that’s enough money for many generations. You have a new kid you could be at home with. Why do you even give a damn about starting this new thing?
Peter: The idle mind is a devil’s playground. But also, I just think it’s dangerous — I need to produce, I need to make stuff. I need stress. I need to be challenged. I need risk. I’m a way better man with responsibility.
And second, I want my son to see daddy working hard, to be a role model for him. I need to be in an office, I need to be sacrificing.
Fundamentally, as a human, I’m just not happy if I’m not risk-on, if I don’t have responsibility.
Sam: So you were kind of bummed out for the past few years?
Peter: Yeah, I was unfulfilled. Just like… being an investor sucks.
Shaan: Like, the only good thing about it is you have freedom of time and freedom of responsibility. And I just actually don’t like that.
Peter: Have you ever seen the Reddit post by the guy Jake who started Movement Watches?
Shaan: No.
Peter: They were one of the early DTC brands — a watch brand that got really big off Instagram. He wrote this thread that said: “I sold my company for millions and I’m more lost than ever.” He was 31. He said pretty openly: “I sold Movement for a lot of money. I thought all my problems would be solved. It made my life really cushy and comfortable. I optimized for being as stress-free as possible. I play video games when I want. I wake up when I want. I always thought this was the dream and I’d be happy forever — until I wasn’t.”
Then at the bottom he says: “I’ve been separated from the company for two years. I’m 31, single, I never have to work again. I’m also lonelier than ever and deeply depressed. I really believe that we need purpose in our lives to be happy. For some that’s raising a family, others it’s their career.” And then the punchline: “We can plan and analyze forever. But there are lessons that are unknown until you start moving forward. You cannot live without struggle and pain. We either choose our struggle and pain, or it will find us through depression and loneliness.”
I thought that was really powerful.
Sam: And you pointing your finger at him — be like, you have to work. Not for money. You have to work for yourself.
The Medium Article [00:54:30]
Sam: I want to bring up this article that got written about you. On Medium. You know what I’m talking about?
Peter: Yeah. It was super sensationalized, and she was just projecting. I told Shaan he was going to bring it up.
Sam: For anyone who’s thinking about what I’m describing — the headline was beautiful photos, but they kind of paint it as “the lost young rich guy who doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing in life.” And there was one line: “Pro tip for founders — anytime somebody wants to write an article about you and they want to take photos of you looking longingly out the window, they’re about to mess you up. Don’t take the photo. Don’t do the article.”
The paragraph goes: “Peter bought a fully furnished house for $19 million in May. He splits his time between here and Chicago. He chose Miami because there’s no income taxes. He has a Ferrari and a Vespa parked in the driveway. A housekeeper who comes daily keeps the seven bedrooms spotless. Most are usually empty.” Just little jabs.
And then she says: “This looks like a place that ticked a box requesting the newly rich bachelor package.” Just constant jabs.
Peter: It’s crazy — I probably spent the whole day with this woman, became friendly with her, and she just kind of… yeah. I’m very introverted and I love being alone. I never once said I was unhappy. It’s more that she was projecting what she would feel like in that situation. She couldn’t imagine living there alone. But I’m like, this is great.
It just shows you can’t trust media. The story was supposed to be about my process for finding my next business, and it was still a good article — there were some cool insights, and the photos are great. But you know.
Miami and Post-Exit Wealth Management [00:57:00]
Sam: Me and Shaan like to talk about — when we both sold our companies, there’s this whole journey, and then when you sell, there’s this moment where more than exuberance it’s actually just relief. Relief that the process finished, it was successful, your employees are in a good spot, everything worked out.
And then there’s the post-exit figuring out what you want to do. The first time you go to the ATM and print out the balance… do you have any of those moments that you remember?
Peter: I would say: going through the process, it took me a while to actually comprehend the money. I’d never taken money out of the business before. I went from basically $75K a year to this crazy number. That process took about a year — I don’t have great instincts on financial literacy for some reason.
And in general, going through it — maybe it’s like I have kind of low self-esteem from being dyslexic — I didn’t think I was that great. You just get treated differently.
Sam: Also you were living in Miami, which is not the most friendly place for a newly rich young single man. It can be a pretty dangerous place.
Peter: Yeah, if you want to have discipline, it’s a dangerous place. But it’s actually great because there are a lot of high-net-worth people there you can learn from. The issue with Miami is there’s no residue of the actual building — just the outcome. You don’t see the office, you don’t hear the stories of the process. You just see the outcome. A bunch of people and none of the process. That’s what’s dangerous about Miami on wealth.
On wealth management, I would just define the different options for someone going through it: Goldman will fee you but make you feel good. Here’s how to manage this money. There are different categories and approaches based on risk appetite. That’s what I needed help with — and that’s what I would help someone with. Here’s how you should think about it.
How Big Can David Get? [01:01:00]
Sam: All right, two final questions. First one: how big can David be?
Peter: I’m 75% of the way through this bar right now. The market, I think, is an $8 billion TAM for the protein subcategory. For me, the exciting opportunity is to convert non-protein-bar people and bring them into the category. I interview people and they’ll often say, “I’m not a protein bar consumer.” If we can achieve the mission of converting as many non-protein-bar people into protein bar people, that would be huge. I see a clear path to a billion in sales top line.
Sam: Is that your threshold for success?
Peter: Enterprise value, yeah. I would want a billion in top line. Put a 3x or 5x on that depending on growth and EBITDA…
Shaan: I love how you don’t shy away from that. We have a lot of people come on this podcast who want to win, want to win big, want money — and whenever Sam asks a question like that, they’ll always fall back to what they think they’re supposed to say: “Oh no, this doesn’t define me, as long as I wake up every day and my wife kisses me on the cheek I’m good.”
I love that you don’t give a damn.
Quotes and Character [01:03:00]
Sam: We have a quote section. I just want you to react to some of these. My favorite: “Don’t trust a guy who celebrates his birthday on the gram, but not with his family.”
Peter: Kind of true.
Sam: You talked about how most people don’t really experience adversity. You said: “Most people are soft as baby sh**.” Expand on that.
Peter: I just think character is shaped by trauma — and trauma is relative. If you haven’t gone through it, that’s fine, but just being self-aware of it is the first step.
Sam: Do you do things now, even though your life could be very comfortable, to voluntarily make it less comfortable?
Peter: Without sounding like a rich asshole… my company is a priority. The first thing to go is my health. My family is more important, then my company, then me. So my health is the first thing to go.
But for adversity: physical exertion. Doing hard physical things is the easiest way to get adversity. That’s why you see a lot of people doing that. But my company provides all the adversity I need.
In-Person vs Remote Work [01:05:30]
Sam: Is your new company in-person or remote?
Peter: I made the biggest mistake dude. We started it kind of like right after COVID and we did remote, and it’s like an irreversible thing.
Sam: Oh — I was hoping there was like a 3% chance…
Peter: Yeah, if you want a high-performing company, if you want to win, you obviously have to do it in person. And the thing is — why does it work? It’s fun. Being in the office is fun. That’s why I do it. I don’t even care about the winning part — it’s fun to be around your people, who become your friends.
Sam: And your social bucket gets filled through your work colleagues.
Peter: Yeah, exactly. I don’t really socialize outside of work. My PA friends are the best friends.
Shaan: My W-2 friends are awesome. Yeah, you hire someone and you just want to be friends.
Closing [01:07:00]
Sam: Peter, I know we’re a little overtime, so we’ll let you go. But you’re awesome. I really appreciate you coming on. I think your story is great. You’re very truthful and self-aware, and that’s a pretty deadly combo. And I think you have a hardcore approach to this at a time when it is unpopular to be hardcore — you almost have to apologize for caring and trying and working and prioritizing stuff.
I think there are a bunch of people who will listen to this and want that too. They’ll feel more empowered to do it the same way you were saying Elon gave you permission — like, wait, can I do anything? It gives you permission to be the way you want to be. I think you’ve done that today on this pod, so I appreciate you coming on.
Peter: Thank you guys.