This episode of the My First Million podcast features a conversation between hosts Sam Parr and Shaan Puri, and their guest, Kevin, who runs a highly successful, niche newsletter business focused on the agriculture industry. They discuss the origins of Kevin’s business, the surprising profitability of his model, and the broader lessons on entrepreneurship, including the importance of finding unique market opportunities and the value of “blue-collar” business models.
Topics: Newsletter business, agriculture, entrepreneurship, media, monetization, business strategy, niche markets, content creation.
Introduction [00:00]
Sam Parr: Kevin, the interesting thing about you is like, you’ve got this massive newsletter business. It’s all about farming and agriculture.
Kevin: Yeah, we’re probably in the 30,000 to 40,000 range on paid subscribers.
Sam Parr: Wait. Did you say like 30,000 subscribers at $600 a year? You got to tell me everything.
Shaan Puri: What about the other tech? So like I’ve seen people do these like Fitbit for cows.
Kevin: Yeah, we think that that’s going to be prevalent throughout. We think you’re going to blockchain the farm is what we’re calling it in our world.
Shaan Puri: What are the things you’re excited about now? Where do you think the opportunity is?
Sam Parr: I think…
The Origin Story [00:39]
Sam Parr: All right, Kevin. What’s going on, man? We’re here. So I have I have got to do a quick story on how we met. So about four years ago, I think we’re in Scottsdale, Arizona at the Design Pickle conference. I just get done doing this talk about how the hustle is like doing pretty good. We’re at a million subscribers, whatever. At the end of the talk, I just walk backstage or I walk in the back of the crowd. You’re wearing a Ramones t-shirt and like shorts and you walk up to me and you’re like, “Hey, nice little talk you did there.” And I was like, “Oh, thank you.” And you’ve got this you got this confidence about you and you’re like, “So, how many subscribers do you have?” And I was like, “Uh, I think a million,” or something like that. And and you go, “Well, you know, that’s pretty nice. I got a little newsletter myself. Uh, we’re doing okay. We got about 30,000 subscribers.” And I was like, “Oh, that’s that’s a good start.” And you said, “Well, how much do you charge people to read the hustle?” And I’m like, “It’s free. Uh, I make money via advertising.” And you’re like, “Oh, you don’t charge?” And I was like, “You do?” And uh, you go, “Yeah, we charge about $600.” And I, it takes about 10 seconds and I’m like, doing the math and I’m like, “Wait, did you say 30,000 subscribers at $600 a year?” And you’re like, “Yeah, what do you expect?” And turns out, you’ve got this massive newsletter business. And I was like, “What’s the newsletter about?” And you’re like, “Oh, we talk to uh farmers. It’s all about farming and agriculture.” And I’m like, “Wait, hold on, man. You got to tell me everything here.” And that’s when my mind was blown. And I was like, “We got to get you on.” And it took about four years, but finally we made it happen.
Kevin: I appreciate it.
Meeting the Van Trumps [02:05]
Sam Parr: Sean, what did you think when you met the Van Trumps and got got around his people?
Shaan Puri: Man, I would just call it a series of amazement and confusion. I showed up and first of all, it’s called FarmCon. So I think the conference is going to be a bunch of farmers. By the way, at this point in my life, I don’t think I’d ever met a farmer. Uh, I I had grown up, you know, overseas, I lived I live on the coast. I had never really met a farmer. So I thought it’s going to be about farming and and and whatnot. And um, instead, it’s actually about investing. So that was the first part that I was amazed and confused about was, I walk in and it’s a talk going on about options trading, corn futures and and it was so far over my head and I was like, “Wow, wait, these guys are actually talking about crazy Wall Street stuff. What what’s going on here?” And then over time, I met a bunch of people. The conference was amazing. And they were like, “Well, what are you doing here?” And I was like, “I don’t know. I got I don’t farm and I don’t trade commodities, so I’m not really sure, but I’m here to talk. Uh, I have a talk scheduled tomorrow, and I’m here to just be out of my comfort zone, be out of my bubble,” because I had only been going to tech conferences. When I was doing my research for this pod, I learned that you actually kind of did a similar thing, which was that there was a period of your life where you wanted to shake things up and you started just going to different conferences or trade shows that were totally unrelated to what you were doing and what you were familiar with. You kind of intentionally put yourself in that to just shake up your worldview. Is that right? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Kevin: Yeah, for sure. That’s how I met Sam. I mean, we were at this, I don’t even know what the hell it was. My son had called and said, “Let’s just make it where we make ourselves go to different things. Make ourselves uncomfortable, get out of our comfort zone.” He called me and said, “Hey, there’s this conference in Phoenix. Mom wanted to go to Phoenix and out there and I said, “What is it?” And he said, “Design Pickle.” I said, “What the hell are we?” And people speaking there, we’re doing like hair, you know, they were hair drying business and they had all kinds of crazy stuff. I said, “Okay, I’ll go.” Shit, next thing I find myself walking around the courtyard of this place holding another guy’s hand. Like you know, shit I never do here in the Midwest. It’s like, what the hell is going on? You know, they had us doing some weird stuff. And uh, and yeah, that’s where I met Sam. And so yeah, each year we try to go to different things. Just to get different perspective, different views. You know, we just believe in in trading and investing, it’s all about perspective. And, you know, you can get blindsided a million different ways. And so I like to be around the younger people to help broaden my perspective because, you know, we always say in our business, it’s the old bear and the young bull. As we get older, we tend to get more bearish, just because we don’t we don’t understand as much as we did when we were younger. You know, when we were younger, we were aggressive and we knew the latest, greatest things. And now that we get older, most of my older hedge fund friends and traders, uh, were more cynical and bearish, just by nature, it seems like, because we just don’t understand a lot of the newer stuff. So,
The Newsletter Business Model [04:54]
Sam Parr: Well, I’ll give you two things that came out of it. Number one, after FarmCon, me and Ben at in the lobby of the hotel while one of the talks is going on. There was another corn futures talk that was going over my head. I said, “Hey, let’s just hang out in the lobby real quick. I just got to get out of here. I don’t I don’t understand what the hell these guys are talking about anyways.” So we go to the lobby and we had talked to you about your newsletter business. And we go, “You know what? We should create a newsletter business around what we’re what we’re interested in.” And we were very interested in crypto at the time. We had been kicking around this idea, but we hadn’t really had the momentum, the the energy to just like create it from scratch to birth that baby. And so only in the lobby of the hotel where we like, “Let’s do this.” And we named it Milk Road, which was kind of like a farmy sort of name anyways. It all came together in the lobby. And then a year later, we sold that business for millions of dollars. And so I I got to credit you in a way because we had had a conversation with you the night before and you told us, you’re like, “All right guys, I got to go back to my room. I got to write the newsletter.” And we were like, “You still write the newsletter?” Like, surely you’ve hired a team of people. And you’re like, “No, I I write the newsletter myself.” Um, I’ve written it, I think you had written it for like some absurd number, like 18 straight years or 20 straight years. You hadn’t missed it and it was you writing it every single day. Is that right?
Kevin: Well, I have a a girl that works for me, Cassie, she works for trade, Stacy Craig, she’s out in LA. And uh, she helps me with a lot of the content and a lot of the thing. I write corn, beans, wheat, I write the up top comments, she she helps with those. And then I write the stories down below. So it’s her and I usually tag team in the whole thing to to give her credit. She’s been she’s been awesome.
The Van Trump Report [06:25]
Sam Parr: Let’s explain though a little bit. So your main thing is the Van Trump Report. So vantrumpreport.com. It’s a daily newsletter that is it’s a great read. I actually I have read it for a while and it’s talks about, I call it for farmers, but it’s way beyond that. So it’s agricultural based information, but for farmers, but also for people who are trading commodities. And you have said that uh politicians read it to understand a little bit about what’s going on in that world. And you’ve told me, I don’t remember exactly what you said. You told me that it was doing something like 30,000 people paying something like $600 a year. And it’s basically just you writing it, which if you did that math, if that’s true, that’s like $18 million a year in revenue from a newsletter. Is that right?
Kevin: Yeah, it’s just myself. Uh, there’s about four of us on our staff here. Uh, a friend of mine that used to be a golf pro, uh, buddy that I went to school with, Stacy out in California and my son, Jordan on this side of the fence. My wife does uh bookkeeping with accounting team, but that’s really it. And like you said, yeah, I did the newsletter and just you know, wanted to write about what I was interested in and and everything that kind of interests me. And so, you know, that’s that’s really what we do and what we put out. Yeah, we’ve got several congressmen, senators, a lot of big trading groups, hedge fund people. And yeah, probably 35, we’re probably in the 30 to 40,000 range on on paid subscribers.
Shaan Puri: It’s also got like five pages of memes in it, which I love because I was like, I would read it and the first part was cool, was commentary on where you think the market’s headed and it’s written the way you talk, it’s very informal, it’s it’s a straight shooter type of vibe, which makes it fun to read even if it’s not your stick. And then it’s got a bunch of memes which made me laugh and I was like, “This is hilarious that that you chose to do that.” Was the product we see today, is that basically how you started it? Is that what it was at the beginning? And how did you get it off the ground? What was the how’d you get the initial momentum with that?
Kevin: Yeah, pretty much. So I my married my high school sweetheart. We were both from a small rural town here in Missouri. I go to work for a group that was contract with the NFL, do camps, combines, clinics. So I’m traveling all around the country. Got a really cool job, making no money. My wife kind of lands her dream job in Chicago. And, you know, we didn’t come from money, money. Neither one of our parents or anything. We didn’t have any money really, so to speak, when we were younger. So my wife gets this job. She was going to run the Eddie Bauer out on Michigan Avenue. They was going to be their premier store and all that. So we thought, “Man, this is going to be great.” You know, we go up there and I didn’t know anything and uh some of my friends in the NFL are like, “You got to get in the trading business.” Shit, I didn’t know anything about trading and I said, “I was a small rural town farm kid, played last sports all my life.” And they said, “Well, we’ll get you this interview.” I go get an interview with this guy and the guy just kind of looks at me, he’s like, “Damn, you’re a big tall guy.” Uh and I I was probably about 6’4”, 350 at the time and they’re like, “You you like to fight?” And I’m like, “What the hell kind of interview question is it?” You know, I’m like, “What?” And I said, “Yeah, sure, shit. I go out every weekend, you know, I get in a rumble or two at the bars.” And they’re like, “Yeah, you’re great. We’re here.” And I said, “Well, what am I doing? I don’t even know what the hell I’m doing.” They’re like, “Oh, everybody will see you on the floor. It’ll give us a little edge and an advantage.” So, you know, I started at the very bottom. They wanted me to be a phone clerk, you know, and then moved to where I was in floor getting orders off. So I made a few people. They started me off, I go over and I’m trading Swiss francs, D-marks and foreign currencies over at the Merc and then I flip back over to the board and I was trading Treasuries.
Shaan Puri: So wait, Kevin, this was back when you used to have to kind of push and shove your way with the with the papers, getting your trade off and they were like, your size was actually an asset.
Kevin: Yeah, big big time. The the, you know, they’d hire a basketball guys, ex-football guy, there’d be fights breaking out all the time on the floor. So, yeah, I was not.
The “Ag Swag” Business [08:14]
Sam Parr: You have these other slides that I really liked. So you have this uh this poker versus chess one that I loved. Um, can you can you talk about this one?
Kevin: Yeah, you know, I just think, you know, they talk a lot about life being like chess or a lot of times you’ll hear people talk about those things, you know, um, you know, I say life’s more like poker than chess just because the cards are face down and a lot of luck involved a lot of times. So, you know, you can be the greatest, have the greatest skill in the world and I’ve met some the most brilliant, brilliant people, but if they don’t catch any breaks, they don’t catch any luck and you know, it becomes tough. So, I think you have to remind yourself and that’s what we were kind of talking about earlier. If you think you’re a genius and you’re you’re just smarter than everyone else, I think you run into a ton of problems and a ton of roadblocks. That’s where I think, you know, you have to look at it more like poker, like, you know, you’re going to catch you’re going to get lucky every now and then and get on a run and get on a low heater and and sometimes, you know, that’s when you really have to to to push and go all in is is when when you’re when your luck’s going your way. When when you feel like some of the things are going your way, you got to pull away back, you know, that’s not when you double triple down. That’s when you kind of hunker down and let the storm clouds pass and then hopefully your luck will shift and turn around a little bit.
Shaan Puri: Well, it seems like there’s three three parts to the poker thing, right? There’s the cards are are face down, so there’s a lot of unknowns, unlike chess. Then you’re talking about luck and variance, that’s the second part. But then the third part was, you said that the the amateur players just play too many hands. A pro only plays, you know, 15 to 20% of their hands, but an amateur is playing half the hands. And so the trick is actually just to pass on the average opportunity to save room for the huge opportunity. And that’s that’s the other one. And I think Warren Buffett calls this waiting for the fat pitch. He’s like, “There’s no called strikes. You can let 50 opportunities go by and just pass on them. Even if there were some good ones in there, it’s okay. As long as you just when you do swing, you swing at the right ones.”
Kevin: 100%. And I I 100% agree. I mean, you know, we use that analogy, we use the Ted Williams thing all the time. There’s Ted Williams has a batting chart and Ted Williams was one of the first persons to go and document all of his where he would hit balls and where he could, you know, what his percentage was if it was high and outside, low and inside. And he figured out where his sweet spot was. And and Williams would just sit and wait for his pitch and when he got it, he hit, you know, knock shit out of it. So it’s similar to what you’re saying.
Sam Parr: You talk about uh luck and you say passing on the average opportunity to save room for the huge opportunity. And with your trading, uh what have been the opportunities that you’ve thought were huge that you pounced on, as well as maybe some that you didn’t because you thought they were average?
Kevin: Yeah, tons. I could go through those like crazy. And uh, you know, but I I agree with that. And we’ve we’ve talked about this myself and a lot of my trading friends, it’s that as we’ve gotten older, we’ve we’ve learned. We can look back through all of our document, tag docs and everything. I mean, the more trades we made, the worse year we had, it seemed like. The fewer trades, by far the better of the year. And, you know, now we’re trading even less and less and less. And I know I think some of our readers kind of probably get scared of these. They want the action and everything. But you know, it’s like wrestling, you know, as a great wrestler, uh, high school, college wrestler, they’re super patient. They wait for the the market in this case to make a mistake, wait for the market to get out of out of line or overleveraged or over tilted and then you come in and you try to make a play. Uh, you know, most all your money is made, the greatest traders will say, all your money is made sitting. You know, sitting and waiting and it and it’s incredibly hard to do. The decision to do nothing is a decision and in our world, uh, a lot of times it can be the best decision you can possibly make. So, you know, and as far as like Sam saying, you know, we like I said, we were early with Bitcoin, we were early with Tesla. I was trading when Amazon first came out and we had 30,000 shares of Amazon like right out of the hole and I went negative on it. I’ll never forget the story. My wife and I shit, we didn’t have enough money to pay attention at the time and we were sitting there and they I had this position on, it went against me and I said, “Man, if this thing just gets back to even,” and Amazon traded like three or four bucks at the time. It got back to even and I blew out. And I mean, it would have been like, you know, the craziest trade of all times if I’d have stuck with it. But I wouldn’t have stuck with it probably, you know, I’m a trader, so it’s like, you can’t you can’t beat yourself up saying, “Man, if I would have just stayed in that or not stuck with it.” And I think a lot of people do that to themselves, you know, it’s a psychological game and you just want to try not to beat yourself up and not get down on yourself because that then it then it gets hard to fail and and recover. So,
Trader vs. Investor [25:04]
Shaan Puri: What’s the case for being a trader versus a investor? Because if you read about all the investing greats, they all kind of poo-poo traders a little bit. They’re like, “Oh, you don’t want to be a trader, you want to be a, you know, a buy and hold guy. You want to buy, find a great asset and then sit on it for a long time.” Am I just only reading the advice from the investors and that’s why, or is there something to what they’re saying?
Kevin: No, you’re absolutely right. I mean, there’s plenty of trades I’ve been in that I’ve become an investor because they went against me and we just kept holding and holding and holding, right? So, it was meant to be a short-term trade but turned into a long-term uh, you know, just ass kicking. So it’s like, no, I agree. My job though, I was a trader. So, you know, I was at the floor, I was at the exchange, I was at the Kansas City Board of Trade, guy. You know, and so my whole job revolved around trading and fairly quick movements in the market. I was never I did own a day trading firm at one time, uh, and you should have seen, you know, the success rate on people day trading. It was just a miserable business. So we don’t day trade, so to speak. We’ll be more swing trading, we’ll be multi-days in a trade. You know, with commodity markets are a little different. For every buyer, there’s a loser and they’re a little different than stocks. And and there’s expirations on the contract. So, you know, we’re we’re more short-term oriented, but we’re also longer-term investors like you would say, Sean. I do think I advise my kids, my own kids, to exactly what you’re saying. You know, no, unless you’re going to be full-time and you really want the belly aches, I wouldn’t advise probably, you know, trading or trying to time market movements uh like I said, I I’m more with Buffett, you know, I I think you know, everybody’s trying to beat the indexes. I mean, everybody’s trying to beat the S&P or the Nasdaq and and you’re and you’re out that stuff to do. And you know, so I think, you know, as a passive investor, uh long-term hold is probably a a good play for for the majority of most people. And and that’s the way to build wealth.
The “Ag Swag” Business [27:37]
Sam Parr: How many years have you beat the index? How long or how long you been doing this? 20 or 30 years? Do you think that you’ve beat the index?
Kevin: You know, I mean, the years that we beat it, we beat it by a mile because we get lucky in some certain position or some certain stock. And the year like this year, I’m I’m trailing. I have decent amount put over into uh, you know, we’re still in a lot of CDs at five and a quarter, 5% and you know, a lot of our wealth building has come from real estate.
Shaan Puri: That’s just buying land, farmland, or what are you buying?
Kevin: Buying real estate, you know, we have everything from commercial properties to single families that we’ve turned into various Airbnbs, uh, yeah, land, farmland, regular land. Those have been our biggest winners.
Sam Parr: Has the majority of your net worth come from the income that the newsletter has produced or has it been from trading?
Kevin: So, I think there’s two ways you can do with your business. You know, when you’re making money, you can either take the money and reinvest it back in your business, which we didn’t do. That was kind of my play. I’m like, “I’m not going to do that. I’m going to take my money and then I’m going to put it out and see and try and invest in other people’s businesses.” And you know, and we’ve we’re we’re partners with a a firm, a private equity firm called Iselect. So we’re early investors in AgTech startups and some biotech. And so we’ve had a ton of losers, but they’ve all led to meeting new people, uh learning new things and then that in turn comes to something else. So, you know, we try to grow our revenue and then take that revenue and invest it in various other vehicles and other sources.
Market Sentiment [28:19]
Shaan Puri: What’s the uh like sentiment like amongst the people that are reading the newsletter or would come to the conference? You know, are people bullish right now? Are they optimistic? Are there big headwinds or tailwinds? What’s going on in the food producer world?
Kevin: Yeah, you know, it’s it’s pretty dark right now over in our world to so to speak. The the big jump in rates was obviously uh kind of a real pinch for a lot of our AgTech startups and a lot of the people just in agriculture in general. So you’ve had a big jump in rates. And then we also have, you know, a little bit of a glut right now. We have a pretty burdensome supply of corn, over two billion bushels supply of corn. You know, we had about 500 million bushels supply of beans coming down the pipe and we’re sorry, that that means that last season overproduced.
Kevin: Yeah, you know, we had a good year last year. Uh South America is coming off a a pretty good year. Argentine like for example, Argentine production doubled from what they had. They had a big drought uh last year and some production problems. Brazil’s got a little bit of they’re down from a little bit. But China like so China right now hasn’t been a buyer of US new crop beans, haven’t booked any any cargos, uh which is unusual. So we’re worried. We have this election coming up. Anything can happen. We’re not sure how China is going to play it with Trump coming back into the mix. Are we going to have a bigger hit on tariffs? So when Trump was in office, we had bean prices go break pretty considerably because the we got into a pissing match with China. And you know, they’re the number one buyer of beans in the world. So it’s we’re kind of trying to weigh this thing out here and see how things are going to shake out. But we do have some new things on the front. We got sustainable aviation fuel. So soybeans are now going to be used to make sustainable aviation fuel, which is going to be a big win. We’re trying to push to get corn to where the corn production is going to also be used to make sustainable aviation fuel. There’s a few pipeline issues that need to be addressed and some things like that. But we’re moving for more food for fuel is becoming more a little more prevalent. So we’re seeing more countries move to that for cleaner energy sources. So we’re seeing more utilities and more usage for traditional crops. We’re seeing more utility and more usage for land. We were just seeing a ton more buyers and bidders come in for land. People wanting to put in solar, you know, solar fields uh to create energy, wind fields. Uh there’s just a lot more utilities being used now for data centers. We’re seeing a big push through the Midwest on companies wanting to build these massive data centers uh really through the glut of the Midwest. And we think it’s kind of like Cushing’s Oklahoma where we store our oil. Now we think data is going to be kind of the new oil. And so we’re going to try and store our data here in the US centrally into the Midwest. So we’re seeing a big push in some farm ground being gobbled up for uh big data centers.
The “Bucking Bull” Analogy [31:03]
Sam Parr: My father is a a produce broker. So he owns a small brokerage where like let’s say that over the course of 20 years, he’s sold $100 million worth of onions, you know, over the course of 20 years. The the the the margin is like 5%. Like so he’ll he’ll he’ll make $5 million over 20 years or whatever. If he sells $100 million worth of onions, so it’s a huge quantity, but in that space, he’s a small dog, you know, really tiny. But I remember during oh wait, like I remember I was only uh 17 or 18. I was watching the news and I was like, “You know, Dad, why do you seem like you’re making more money now than than before where everyone else seems to be going broke?” And he was like, “Well, look at the corner of our kitchen. There’s onions and potatoes there. Like, people are still going to buy this stuff no matter what.” And then when the economy’s going well, like you’re going to go out to eat and I’ll crush it then, too. So it’s like, I’m I’m in a good business. And I remember thinking like as I got older, I kind of forgot about farming and I forgot about food and agriculture and I just I didn’t really think about it. But what I’ve learned is that over the years that America is really good at two or three things. One of them being culture, so we export culture like amazingly well. So Hollywood is like our biggest export, I would say, or or culture. The second thing that we do really well, we are so fucking good at growing corn. America is so good at growing corn. And I forget how important agriculture is to our to our our way of life in in America. So when you’re talking about some of these things about what China’s doing, what Brazil’s doing, if China’s buying stuff from us, how big is like this entire industry that you’re associated? I mean, what percentage of the GD GDP or economic value is it creating in America compared to other things?
Kevin: Oh, massive. I mean, it’s, you know, one of the and we’re seeing more and more of the wealthy get into agriculture. And that’s why I’m saying, it’s a really hot area and you’re seeing, you know, the Gates Foundation, Buffett’s group, uh, well, Warren uh son, uh Howard, he used to be a big farmer, uh, and he had just recently gotten out and uh still owned the ground, but they’re having some other people farm it and doing some things like that. But yeah, seeing a big, big push and more and more people being interested in Ag and interested in food and where it’s coming from. We’re seeing Sean, what we’re also seeing is more people going direct to the farmers now. Uh just recently in the last few weeks, we’ve seen more ranches come online, kind of form a little coalition. There’s a group of about seven, eight good ranches down in Texas that are now selling direct to the public. You know, they were getting maybe they were getting minimal for their beef uh uh you know, and now that they’re selling direct, they’re they’re really doing well and people like buying direct and so, Did you just buy off their website or or they there’s some startup that’s doing this? Yeah, they have an auction. I think it’s called Bid for Beef. I thought that was a dating site. Yeah, yeah, you know, so hey, I yeah. It could be whatever you’re into. Yeah, but you know, they’re starting to make more traction and we’re seeing that across the board with other plays. What’s going on with like farms that are kids don’t want to take it over? What is the succession plan look like and and is somebody solving that problem? That’s a huge issue and that’s being discussed heavily in in the Ag world that uh, you know, so you have this this big succession uh rollover. I think I don’t know what the number I can’t remember off the top of my head. It’s okay, 80% of the farms are owned by people over 60, you know, and it’s it’s a really aging demographic. And a lot of the the kids, you know, are have other jobs or went off to great colleges and great schools and they don’t necessarily want to come back. So, yes, there is there is a a a big issue. And and a lot of the people in the farming world keep their cards really close to their chest and they don’t really talk a lot openly with their kids or they don’t have a lot of great succession planning in place. And and we’re seeing that a lot. I think uh, you know, we’ve tried to be super open with our kids and and discuss everything and show them everything and say, “Hey, here’s where everything’s at, here’s where you need to know, here’s where you need to be.” And uh, you know, hopefully, you know, we tell our other friends uh to similar type things. So yeah, succession planning is is very important. Uh and I think it’s, you know, something that we all have to address as we own businesses. So, Well, what what what do you think’s going to happen? Like uh if if 80% of these are owned by people over 60 and a lot of the kids are going, like is this just going to be private equity owns all the farms? Like what what what happens here? We are going to see a lot of rollover and a lot of turnover. So in the farming space or when you’re buying acreage, there’s there’s two bidders that are going to come against you. The person whose farm butts up against you, they’re going to be willing to pay a big premium because the land may only come available once in their lifetime. And so they’re going to be bidding heavily. So whoever’s in close proximity, because as you know, driving the combines or driving the hard, it it makes a lot of sense to get a continuing piece of ground. And now you’re also having like California Teachers pension fund bidding against you, you have other high profile uh fund people bidding against you. So yes, Who runs it? They just place somebody to go live on the farm and then run it? Well, Sean, have you ever been on a farm? No. I don’t even know where I would go to find a farm. Where do you get I don’t know, map somewhere? My uh my aunt and uncles and cousins are farmers in Oklahoma and they have like two or 3,000 acres and they are I guess they’re ranchers. And so they own like 1,500 cattle, I believe. And a bunch of their cattle are uh Sean, you probably never heard this term. They’re bucking bulls. Have you ever heard of You know what a bucking bull is? I do not. So, what they do is they uh the PBR, which is the Professional Rodeo Association, they if you get a good bull, a good bull can be worth, I don’t know, Kevin, what like 50 grand all the way up to a million dollars. And Oh, absolutely. Yeah, more than that. Some of them. And uh these good bulls, you get you make money in two ways. You make money because at the rodeo, the rider gets paid. So if you stay on a a bull for a certain amount of time, you win and you get paid. But the bull that bucks the hardest also gets paid. And that’s like a like a rating rating system. And so there’s like famous bulls that are known as like really hard bucking bulls. Like who’s the Michael Jordan of bulls? This this Bushwacker. I went to Bushwacker. Bushwacker has been the best for a long time. No, Bushwacker is a famous bull. Uh the guy who uh like dominated Bushwacker, what’s his name? JR or something? He like just retired, I believe, right? What was that guy’s name? Oh yeah, we my son played football with a couple kids that were PBR bull riders, everybody, you know, so they’re insane. Oh, they’re nuts. Yeah. My cousin and the family, this is what they do. And so I went and stayed with them every once in a while and we get up at like 8:00 and starting at like 10:00, you go to the feed store and you buy a huge amount of feed. You bring the feed back, you call the bulls and you throw it all over like the like you like you scatter it out throughout the the the area and they come up and they eat it. And then on the weekends, they drive these bulls from Oklahoma to Texas, which is like 12 hours. And these bulls, when you put them into the truck, you would think a bull that you birthed and raised, like they will literally be there when they birth this bull. But once the bull hits puberty, I guess, or it has balls, it wants to fucking kill you, no matter what. It doesn’t matter if you raised or birthed this bull, this bull wants to murder you every chance it gets. And so just to get the bull onto the truck, it’s like a life or death situation every once in a while. Like this it’s a 1,500 lb thing that that you got to get into this truck. And they would drive these bulls all around the country and they get paid, I think, four grand just to as an appearance fee or something like that to show up at the PBR. And then the other the cows, the the the females. And so they make their money by raising the cows that they sell for beef and then the bulls, they either sell them to get bred or they make money directly from the rodeo. And it’s like a huge cash business. So my cousins and aunts and uncles, they’ll always have a a wad of cash because they’ll go to the auction and it’s just like a really heavy cash business. They get, let’s say 10 grand for selling 10 10 cows. They take that 10 grand and they spend eight of it like that day on more cow feed. And so it’s like a really heavy I I’m probably getting some numbers wrong, but they’re it’s a really heavy cash business and it’s fucking hard. My cousin Sam would drive around and he’d be drinking like Natural Light while he’s driving his truck, checking on all the like on all the cows. Dude, it’s a hard it’s a hard living and it’s really fun. I’ve like spent time on there. It’s been it was fun for me as a visitor, but it is a hard job to do this shit. You are working and walking constantly. Yeah, you’re right. And you know, I lost I lost a good chunk of money, not a big chunk, but I did what you said. Some buddies of mine and said, “Hey, let’s start raising these bulls to be PBR bulls, you know, rodeo bulls.” Shit, I I don’t think I ever cashed one check. I think it just it was a lot of fun, a lot of like you said, a lot of drinking Natty Light and driving around the pickup, checking on them and you know. Yeah, like it it’s like fun, but it is fucking hard and it it’s a very capital intensive business. Hey, I’ll give you one. I’ll give you one that I that was a big miss. Now, a guy came to me, Sam, we’re going to kick out. Guy came to me, hell, it was probably 20 years ago and uh, you know, the internet was just getting going. He said, “Man, I got this great idea.” And the the guy came in and he was all suited up and I said, “Well, and he’s an English major and all that.” He says, “What I’m going to do is I’m going to build these websites and I’m going to hire a couple other English majors and we’re going to write really eloquent descriptions of these cattle and these bulls and their stems, the stem that they call the sperm, you know, and he’s like, “Then I’m going to sell this sperm all over in Japan, all over the world.” I said, “Dude, you’re nuts. This shit ain’t going to work.” You know, this was early on. I blew it up. It blew it up. How do you eloquently describe the sperm of a bull? What’s it What’s his website? I don’t know. You know, the background, the lineage. I don’t know. I have not followed him for a number of years, but I remember he came back through and some people were like, “Man, this guy just Hey, I’ll tell you one. We were at the Louisville Farm Show. They had me come down there to speak. It’s US’s world largest indoor farm show and so I go down there to be the keynote speaker. And there’s this little booth set up next to us and they got all these polaroids on this little 10x10 booth tent. And I go over and talk to the guy. I said, “What the hell is this thing?” And he’s like, “It’s called farmersonly.com.” And you guys have seen all of the ads. Man, I’m not shitting you, Sean. We’re like all making fun of him and then the next year he comes and he has like a 20x20 booth. And then the next year he’s there and shit, his booth damn near big as John Deere. I mean, his booth was massive and we’re like, “What the hell?” And then he’s got Super Bowl ads and it’s just farmersonly.com. You’re looking to marry a farmer, you know, that thing just blew up and he shit, he turned that into a great deal. So When you uh so let’s say I wanted to become a gentleman farmer and I wanted to go buy a farm. Walk me through that. So first, where would I find a farm? Uh do is this like sold like on Zillow or is this uh brokers only? How do people find farms to buy? You know, some people are now investing for actively through uh I’m in I’m invested in a company, Acre Trader, acretrader.com. So we buy farms, we even have farms out in your neck of the woods, Sean. Um out in we have nut farms uh out in California. Uh we have regular uh other row crop production farms through Bakersfield in that area through there. Um you know, and all over the United States, you have various farms that grow various different products. So a farmer is selling a fraction of their of their farm. What happens at Acre Trader, we go in and actually buy the entire farm from a family, say they’re wanting out or it’s a session planning and they want to leave. So we’ll buy the entire farm and most of the time we’ll have a farmer in that area that has called us about the farm and said, “Hey, we don’t have the money, but if you guys want to put up the money, we’d be happy to farm it for you and do revenue sharing, crop sharing or some type of uh, you know, split into the revenue. We’re looking to just hold the ground for appreciation over a 10, 12 year period. The years you have good years, you have some really good years. Some years though, you you’re going to have some some losing years. But over the course of time, 10, 15, 20 years, your appreciation on the land is going to be that’s really going to carry you forward. And that’s what the that’s what a lot of the hedge funds are looking for, a lot of the funds are looking for that longer-term appreciation. Well, what what are these trade for? Like if I go buy a farm, what is the multiple you pay on a farm typically? Or would it be just price per acre? Price per acre and it’s gone nuts lately. I mean, my buddy just sold his mom left him a chunk of ground that they had in their family and he said, “Hey, what do you think?” And I said, “I don’t know, man, it’s a great time.” This was about seven, eight months ago. I said, “You know, farmers are flush with some cash, maybe about a year ago.” And he ended up getting 20,000 an acre down here outside of Missouri. Now, that’s pretty rare off the books. You know, acreage around here typically go for, you know, 5 to 12 to 15. But if someone needs the ground or wants the ground and it’s a continuing piece of track to their farm, you can see guys get in a bidding war. And so you get bidding wars. And yeah, you can go out anywhere, look up farm ground, you want to, you know, there’s a lot of things you want to look for. Like in Kansas, you can’t drill any wells, I mean, you can’t drill new wells. And so Kansas and Nebraska, there’s a lot going on with the underground aquifer and there’s a lot of problems with with water usage. And so, you know, we we believe though, we like C and B grade ground. We like ground that’s maybe in a flood plain or we like ground that’s uh watered to fish it because we believe that all the technology and the money from Gates’s foundation or Buffett, they’re they’re really putting their money into new technology that will help grow crops in third world countries that have really poor soil. So, you know, Iowa has the best soil. Iowa and Illinois, they’ll argue with each other who’s got the richest soil. And they’ve got great soil and great farms that you really don’t have to do a lot to. Uh you get to some of these peripheral areas that you’re going to be like these guys who you get a biker jacket but you got no bike, right? That’s that’s more of my my my land. So I just need to know I’m asking questions just so I have the lingo in case I ever get pressed so that I I can sound like I know what I’m talking about without actually knowing anything. Yeah, you’re uh you have to get some land to match that car heart coat that you want to get. I get I get that. Well, what about the other tech? So like I’ve seen people do these like Fitbit for cows where they’re like, uh, you know, like cows valuable, you know, asset and you don’t know if it’s sick, you got to keep driving around, keep checking on it. What if you could know before it’s too late, what tech is working? Yeah, we we it is and we’re invested in a few companies to do that and they’ll tag them, they’ll tag the cattle. You know, because there is a push to have less antibiotics, less, you know, less uh, you know, shots and things into into our our food supply. So if you’re able to identify when they have a fever earlier, you can get them segregated from the herd, get them away from the herd, give them the give them the medicine that they need in a more timely fashion. So yeah, all of those are great. You know, Zoetis, the publicly traded company, they’re a leader really probably in the animal health space. If you’re looking for something a longer term play, we’re invested in Zoetis. I have a business Sean that my friend’s working on that might interest you too, Kevin. So basically, he’s putting he’s put RFT RFD, RFT, RFD, sorry, tags on chickens and cows. And you know how like a chicken will uh like when you buy eggs, it says free range. And news kind of trusts. You’re like, “I guess that means a chicken was just like out walking around,” which is better for me because it’s somehow healthier. And it’s also like if you’re if you care about animals, you’re like, “All right, at least I know it had like a better life and whatever.” But free range, I think that’s a technical term actually, where they it has to have a certain amount of space, but I don’t think that it’s actually necessarily always followed. And so what he did was he’s putting these these tags onto cows and chickens and so that you know the beef that you bought, the tag number and you could actually go and see how much did it walk around and where did it go, which sounds a little morbid and weird, but it’s actually supposed to be like reassuring where it like, “Look, my farm is now, you can hold my farm accountable to know that this meat was actually raised in the way that I promised it was going to be.” And that’s like an interesting idea because I think Sean, you said this, I think you said uh in like some period of time, 20 or 50 or 60 years, we’re going to look back at the way that we treated cows and we’re going to be like, “That was pretty unfortunate. Like they it shouldn’t have been done that way where an animal is just born in a pen and never leaves and then we eat them.” And I I actually agree with that. I agree with that sentiment where like the way that we treat certain animals, I’m cool with eating them, but it it’s better to better to let them have a certain life. And so this idea is kind of interesting to me. Yeah, we think that that’s going to be prevalent throughout. We think you’re going to blockchain the farm is what we’re calling it in our world. You know, you’re going to blockchain the farm meaning the fertilizer companies and the input companies are going to have to report all that and you’re going to know what was put on whatever it is you’re eating or, you know, and the reason they want a blockchain it is just like remember when Chipotle was having those issues several years back, you know, with some things. They want to be able to go right to the field, right to the spot and know exactly what happened and what was put on and what time and where it was at. So yeah, I agree with you. Sam, I think that’s definitely where the world’s headed and you know, I think we’re seeing farmers make that transition more and more. They’re a lot more tech savvy than people giving them credit out in the world. They they’re very tech savvy as a matter of fact. And nobody treats their animals, I mean, my opinion, I have never been on a farm in my entire life that I’ve seen any abuse to animals. I mean, nobody treats their animals better. Just because it’s generally, it would typically the way they make their own living, the way they make their their money and they teach their kids to take care of the animal, you know, they love them and show them at 4H and go all around. It it it’s sad that they do get such a bad rap in the media uh when I’ve personally never come across it. What’s your take on the alternative meat movement thing where in Silicon Valley there’s a bunch of startups that are trying to grow beef from cells so that you won’t have to farm the animal, you won’t have to harm the animal to to be able to have the same genetic meat. It should be virtually identical, genetically identical. Uh what’s your take on that movement and is that where you think things are going? I think there will be a segment of the space that continues to grow and I think you’re going to see it continue to gain market share. I think as as population shifts and moves out, uh you know, as the baby boomers continue to age and move on, we get more people, I think you’re going to see alternative types of pro protein be developed and I think as they get more money in the labs, they’re getting better at reducing the cost and creating better flavor. And I think as those two things continue to move forward, just like with Tesla and Elon Musk, you know, it’s it’s only a matter of time. Uh how’s everything happened gradually then all at once and you know, it’s like the electric vehicle. I think you have, you know, a lot fewer moving parts, it’s a lot better than the combustion engine. I think you’re going to see things, you know, gradually gain more and more market share. Well, have farmers taken to like I always read the comments of like in Texas message boards and things like that. They it doesn’t it seems like it’s 50/50 if like the rural community thinks that electric vehicles are are worth it. Yeah, right now at the time, no, because just the distance traveled, you know, a lot of folks are traveling massive distances out in rural America. And so it doesn’t make a lot of sense to them at the moment. I think eventually, yes, I think they’ll see it have better torque, you know, better low end uh get up and go out of the hole and I think you’ll see a lot more transition. I like anything, no, nobody wants to I guess let go of their heritage and their roots and you know, and same with the fake meat. You know, a lot of farmers just bash it and want to go nuts about it. I I I think there’s definitely going to be a place for it and I think there’s it’s going to be able to gain and grow some market share. You know, probably, you know, as they get cost lower and lower, I think it’ll be, you know, a way that we see things happen. If you were 24 years old again and you had the entrepreneurial energy to go do something, what would you be what would you advise that 24-year-old to go to to go do in this space? Where do you think the opportunity is? I think there’s going to be a big push with air quality, air, you know, just the quality of air from this whole whole virus, uh just the testing for the viruses and we’re seeing a lot more testing take place in general. Uh just over the entire space. So I think there’s going to be a big push in things to do with air and creating good air quality. We’re seeing a lot more kids that have asthma or asthma related problems and I think, you know, not just here in the United States, but I’m talking globally and taking But what’s an example solution? What’s an example solution of that from an agricultural uh uh perspective? Well, you know, we’re big right now into the uh carbon market. So, you know, we’re trying to reduce carbon footprints and no one really reduces it much more than the you know, giant cornfield, uh cornfield, plants, you know, things of that nature. And so, you know, yeah, I think there’s a big play and a big push into the carbon trying to reduce like I said, trying to reduce the footprint. Anything that’ll help save energy, improve our water usage, improve water purity. You know, I think anything to do with the natural resources, they’re just going to become more heavily relied upon if we transition all this to electric. I mean, the rare earth minerals are going to be hard, they’re going to be scary. I mean, there’s going to be a lot of plays in in you know, what we see on the uh on that whole side and that whole front. So I think, you know, natural resources, things to do with natural resources, things to do with air, water, like I said, food quality. You know, we really love the blue collar space. I mean, I think we love, you know, like what Cody Sanchez has going on or some of the other things. We like the thought of buying blue collar businesses, rolling them up and uh, you know, kind of packing them up and selling them. Why do you like that? Because they’re they’re retiring? I think they’re retiring. I think we didn’t see near as many kids go into the trades as we had in the past. You know, my dad, my wife’s dad, I mean everybody was in trade back then. That was everyone’s goal to go to college. So, you know, you just had a big lull or a big, I guess, you know, where there’s just a short supply of good skilled people. And now we think you can go into that space and we’ve tried it to a couple times and, you know, where we can build out some things and I think you provide people with good quality service and an onboarding process that, you know, you can cut your customer retention rate down to a feasible level. I I think there’s just the sky’s the limit on growth, you know, and I think Do you use Kevin, do you use TikTok? I I’m on it. Yeah, I see it. Have you guys seen the like popularity amongst young people and the trades? Like it’s it like people they glamorize it in in a in a in a in a cool way. Uh and I think an accurate way, which is like I’m making however $150 or $120,000. I I just want to trade for two years. It goes so well on TikTok because it’s it’s like a novelty. It’s like going to the zoo. It’s like, “Wow, you made that? You know how to do things with your hands?” And that’s what a carrot looks like when it when it comes out. Like that’s incredible. Uh swipe. All right, onto the next one. That was easy. But but I actually think that some of these young people are actually being influenced by this because they’re like, “Shit, I graduated with $150 or $200 grand in debt and I don’t make anything remotely like that amount of money and I’m sitting on my computer all day.” Like this might be a little bit more intriguing. And I don’t have the any data, but it does seem like young people are more open-minded to the trades than at least Sean and I’s uh like graduating classes. Yeah, I’m seeing that as well. We’re hearing that from some of the younger kids that are opting not to go to college and they’re going in to be a pipe fitter or going into pipe fitters union or the plumbing union or electrical union, you know, so yeah, we’re we’re definitely seeing. Because AI ain’t going to replace plumbers or or electricians or HVAC people. It it it maybe one day, but but no time soon. Uh and like I do think that stuff’s getting more popular and I think that’s really cool and fascinating. There’s like it’s also like ripped buff dudes. So it’s always like chicks like commenting like about like, have you seen that guy, Sean, who just cuts wood? Yeah, the lumber yeah, the lumberjack guy. He’s incredible. I love that guy. It’s not just chicks. I I I’ll sit there and I’ll watch that video twice. It’s just an incredible video. It’s this guy that uses an axe and he’s sometimes shirtless, sometimes not, and he’s just like, you know, obviously a 10 out of 10. He’s just chopping wood and like everyone’s like, “I need this in my life.” Therapeutic. Um, have you been a part of any roll-ups? Uh, I always find roll-ups to be a really interesting business strategy. It seems like there’s a lot of money to be made in a in a successful roll-up. I’m curious if you’ve been a part of anything. I have not, personally, no. I usually either exit ahead of time or, you know, get a little nervous or we and flames out. But I have a couple of friends that, yeah, that’s their whole their whole way they’ve created all their wealth. We got one of the gentlemen speaking of right now, he’s doing it with uh cranes. He’s buying small crane companies uh that’ll have two or three cranes and he’s buying them and he’s putting them all together and uh, you know, and he’s going to sell that out. And he’s done it with several other things, whether it’s restaurants or different things in the past. So yeah, I thought it was interesting on the crane play. You know, he came to me about an investment and I we just didn’t do it, but uh, yeah, I’m sure he’ll hit a huge home run with it. Dude, Sean, I think the shit that Kevin’s doing is way more exciting than the shit that our friends are doing. You’re going to quit and go do it? No, I don’t know about that. It sounds like a lot of work. Sounds like a lot of a lot of words then if you’re not going to go do it. No, what it means is I like hanging out with these types of people sometimes. That’s what it means. Yeah, it gives you guys that, you know, I think it gives both of us. I like hanging out with your group of people because I think it gives me different perspective and learn different things that you guys have going on that I can make applicable to my world as well. And so, you know, yeah, there’s a good synergy there between all. And how do you do that practically? Because I think you do a good job of getting yourself into positions like we talked about, going to random conferences that are totally outside your industry that you didn’t need to go to, but you wanted to go to to to shift your lens a little bit. Or hanging out with younger people who may be demographically just doing different things, culturally doing different things than the guy who made it and is at a country club now, might might be disconnected from whatever the culture shifts are. How do you tactically go about doing that? How do you put yourself in those positions? What questions do you ask? Honestly, just make myself. I always yelled at the kids and we were growing up, so I played sports at a high level and had several friends at one World Series and you know, Super Bowls, we always talk, you know, we you get a bad coach, you know, everybody get a bad coach or things like that and it’s like, look man, you got to be able to steal something from the guy. The guy was a great player, he was, you know, you got to go in there with an open mind and you got to be able to take away some things that they’ve done well and that they’ve done positive and then you use those and put those arrows in your quiver. So I just always had the kids looking for new crazy weird conferences or things to go to and and from there, I’d make myself go. The last couple years, I didn’t want to go and I’m like, but each time I went, I I I took away several little gold nuggets that we implemented into our business models and hell, we’ve made big returns on them each one of them. And you know, I didn’t think I’d get anything out of going to the car and I just like this is going to be a waste, but I just sucked it up and did it. You know, it’s like going to workout or you got to run or something. It’s like, yeah, shit. I guess I just got to go do it. Yeah, we had a friend when we were going to FarmCon who was supposed to come with us. It was me, Ben and our buddy. And the morning of, we were like, “Hey, we’ll meet you in the lobby. Um, you know, your flight’s you you landed like an hour ago, right?” And he basically woke up, looked at and he said, “Kansas City.” He looked at the flight time and then he’s like, “Uh, you know what?” And he just bailed. And I was like, “Man, uh but but of course, I I felt that. Everybody feels that in the moment. Like, “Ah, do I really want to go do this thing that I don’t have to do that is unknown, right? It’s it’s back to your thing about are you willing to sprint for an unknown distance? And um we didn’t know what value we would get out of it. That was the hard part. That was the challenge. And doing it when we didn’t know what would come out of it was really, really valuable. Um and it’s ironic because that same friend, he um he gave he gave me a great analogy one time. We were talking to a younger friend. This guy was the youngest VC in Silicon Valley. So 19, 20 years old, he was investing, I don’t know, $10 million into to things. He was like, he got written up as the youngest VC in Silicon Valley. So we were we were meeting with this guy. But now five years have gone by and it was like you hadn’t seen him really progressing at that same rate that you would expect somebody who definitely had that sort of phenom type of uh upbringing uh where where it seemed like he had all the potential in the world. And I was like, “Man, what do you think he’s doing wrong? What what would you do differently?” He goes, “Oh, it’s it’s like windows and doors.” He goes, “He’s only willing to do something if it’s a window. If he can immediately see through and see the what’s on the other side of it, then he’ll do it. But anytime there’s a door and it’s opaque and you don’t know what’s on the other side of it, he’s not willing to knock on a door and open it up and see what might be inside. He’s only looking at doors and he windows. He’s never willing to go through a door. And if once he starts going through doors, he’s this guy’s career is going to take off.” And I remember hearing that and really taking that, you know, to heart because I thought that was very very wise. That’s a great analogy. Yeah, I never heard that before. So I’ve heard a lot. That’s a yeah, that’s a great one there, for sure. So Sean, the reason why you like a lot of these folks in the Midwest and some folks in the in the South is because you love phrases. You love phrases like windows and doors. You love cool sayings and you know what? I love them too. And that’s why I’m happy I’m friends with both of you guys. I love it. We were at a dinner. So at FarmCon, you invited us to like a private dinner at the end. It was like 10 people. This guy stands up and he delivers two of the coldest lines I’ve ever heard. So he stands up and he uh we’re doing our intros. It’s like a and so I stand up and I give some super vanilla intro. “Hi, I’m Sean. I live in San Francisco and I’m uh I’m interested in I’m a tech founder and an investor.” All right, sit down, forgettable. This guy stands up, he’s got a big presence and he goes, um I forget I don’t remember what his his name was exactly, but he he said, he goes, “You know, uh I don’t know a lot of things. I don’t know the I don’t know the score of the game right now. There’s a big game going on. He goes, “I don’t know the score of the game right now. I don’t know anything about this.” And he goes, “He goes, “Hell, I don’t know where the remote is in my house half the time. But I know deals and I make a lot of deals.” He’s like, “I’m a private equity guy.” And he starts talking about his deal making. I was like, “Wow.” And he goes, “I’ve been around for a long time. You cut me open, you can see a lot of rings in the middle.” I was like, “Wow, that’s one way of saying it.” And he just on fire and he goes, somebody go somebody asked him, they go, “What if well, what if they don’t what if they don’t go for it on this deal? Sounds like you really need them to to say yes. What if what if they they say no? What if you get rejected?” He goes, “I’m not afraid of rejection.” And he’s a big big old dude and he goes, “I’ve stood in front of women in my life naked before. I’ve heard no, no, no, no, no, no. I’m okay with it.” And I was like, “Wow, this guy is like half comedian, half businessman and I loved it, but it was just it was just another day at the office for him. But for me, coming from from our world, that was like the charisma levels and the the the the the the gift of the gab was so so incredible to see. I loved it. Yeah, that’s definitely wild times. Yeah, and and you got that too a little bit uh that I like. Just hearing what you have to say, Kevin, and uh for the people listening, maybe maybe we’ll get you some new subscribers. It’s the vantrumpreport.com. I I’m like your uh you always you do something cool where you’ll just like have a selfie with you and your wife and you’re like say, “Today we’re on vacation, here’s what we’re doing,” and you’ll say something kind of funny and cute. And uh I love it. Well, we should just get like a group of 20 of our of our listeners, a select small group to go to FarmCon and we’ll all go together as a field trip next uh next time you guys do it. When is it? First week in January, January 8th and 9th this year coming up. How much is the ticket? I think this year we’re like 1,200 bucks or something. And you sell a lot of them, too, right? Yeah, we’ll sell out whatever they give us, you know, capacity. We sell out the hotel every year and yeah. We appreciate you doing this. You’re the man. Thank you. And thank you for uh years of being uh a cool dude. You’ve always been a great guy to me. So thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Good luck both of you guys and your families and That’s the pod. Thank you very much.